Hey, formerly mono couples opening up to polyamory

[Magdlyn]

We get couples like this here every week, sometimes several per week, coming in new to poly, extremely excited about their fantasy/plan of "adding a person to their relationship," or "looking for our third." "Let's create a throuple!"

We often share an article with these people called, "So Someone Called You a Unicorn Hunter?" It is a great article, but long and complicated.

I just found another one that sums things up much more simply:

"Triad or V-- What's More Complicated?"

Triad or V - What's More Complicated?

I get a lot of people new to polyamory insisting that they must date together, or meet people together, because it "will be less complicated." I see this in comments on social media, on dating app profiles, on couple's profiles on social media (that black and red one that starts with an F...

www.readyforpolyamory.com

It explains, with charts, how a triad is MUCH more complicated then a V, or even an N (with four people).

A triad has seven relationships: four romantic relationships and three metamour relationships.

A V has only three relationships: two romantic and one metamour.

An N has only five relationships: three romantic and two metamour, despite having four people, not three!

In a triad, there are 4 romantic relationships. The one between Alex and Bob, Bob and Carol, and Carol and Alex, and the one between all three together. Each of these needs separate nurturing and time to grow, and each dyadic relationship grows at its own pace.

If you're "seeking a third," this implies that one of these relationships (let's say the one between Bob and Carol) has a longer history. So in being partners, they're more stable with one another, but in being each others's metamours now, Bob and Carol have to figure out how not to compare their growing relationships with Alex. They have to do this while still letting the triad connection grow, and not letting all their couple time become processing time about the new relationships.

It's hard not to compare when you're dating the same person. It might seem simple to say, "Okay, we'll spend all our time together, then." But [if you do that] you're making Alex an accessory to your relationship and not actually building individual connections, which isn't fair to her.

There are 7 relationships in any triad: 4 romantic ones and 3 metamour relationships. [The metamour relationships] are usually in the backseat, but end up mattering sometimes, when one new dyad connects more quickly than another and the processing part of these relationships comes to the forefront. People often feel a LOT of jealousy over watching small differences in a relationship of someone they're also engaged with up close and personal, and this can take a lot of big processing talks to work through and find the roots of.

This assumes, of course, that you meet someone who is totally down with "a package deal" and has feelings for both of you that turn out to stay present...

 

[GalaGirl]

I like the pix in that article. Nice find, Mags!

And yup, just because it's the easiest to IMAGINE: "Just like us, but with 3!" doesn't mean it's the easiest to execute.

A poly V-- one V.
A poly N-- that's 2 V's.
A poly triad-- that's 3 V's stacked up together. And if it's not "dating separately," but also this expectation of a "trio thing," then that's another romantic relationship on top of the dyads, as well.

It would have been nice if the article had drawn a pic of the potential break-ups as well. Sometimes pix get the point across faster.

GG

 

[SquishyHusk]

In my case, the wife and I didn't decide to open up and then go looking for a third. The third came to live with us due to a conjunction of circumstances and the wife ended up starting to question the feelings she was having towards this woman. Wife knows she loves this woman, but is unsure she can have sex with her. I don't have any issues with the physical attraction, but I'm struggling with the emotional part - Mostly jealousy and breaking with my belief in monogamy. It's like overlapping Vs - an emotional V with a physical V offset 120 degrees. It's a triad only when viewed from above.

 

[kdt26417]

I would say that a V is usually easier than a triad -- but some triads do work.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

let's say the one between Bob and Carol) has a longer history - so in being partners, they're more stable with one another, but in being each others's metamours now, Bob and Carol have to figure out how not to compare their growing relationships with Alex.

I think this goes for a vee too. This is more new to poly than specific to triads.

This is not "just how it works" and lots of people are not interested in seeing people with these policies.

It is how it works if the couple says it is. It's true fewer People will be interested.

The conclusions in this article are faulty. It's all like this will make it easier, this thing is always harder. Says who?

 

[Magdlyn]

I think this goes for a vee too. This is more new to poly than specific to triads.

It is how it works if the couple says it is. It's true fewer People will be interested.

The conclusions in this article are faulty. It's all like this will make it easier, this thing is always harder. Says who?

Says the author. It's a simple explanation, as I said. If you want many more details, refer to the other article I mentioned.

So, someone called you a Unicorn Hunter?

This article is a long, technical discussion of what being a "Unicorn Hunter" means, what's wrong with it, and how people in such a situation can try to avoid the negative stereotypes associated with such behavior and get the things that they are ultimately looking for. It is written in a…

davidlnoble.livejournal.com

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

You see I've always thought the same about that article too. I feel like this whole issue is mostly discussed by people overly invested in it because they're typical of the role. They're a potential unicorn, or spouse of a unicorn hunting couple.

Like the thing about discretion is equally true for a totally parallel vee. The way they speak makes it seem as if the issues with closeting are only relevant in one of these triads. Like the ethical issues dilute somewhat the more vee and parallel you are.

The next issue presented is that somehow, in a UH triad, the fact that things like remaining in the closet are presented as a dealbreaker without the other person's input. That's true of any relationship. People have dealbreakers - some might be just maintaining the boundary of another partner. This isn't arguing against a UH triad, it's actually arguing against relationships with partnered people. That's why I can't really get behind it.

This goes back to the other conversation. Is it okay to never let a partner into your home for any reason if you "own the choice"? You see to me, the ethical problem is more about whether it's okay to never let someone you refer to as a partner in your home. Why you won't let them is mostly irrelevant to me. I don't think it's right to say not under any circumstances to a partner. Stick to casual hookups with that lack of availability. Doesn't matter if you're poly or mono.

So again, I can't see this is a problem unique to these couples that make them so much worse than anyone else. I think you just need to accept that people come with varying amounts of prerequisites and you don't get a say in them. You're allowed to walk away at any time.

 

[MeeraReed]

In my case, the wife and I didn't decide to open up and then go looking for a third. The third came to live with us due to a conjunction of circumstances and the wife ended up starting to question the feelings she was having towards this woman. Wife knows she loves this woman, but is unsure she can have sex with her. I don't have any issues with the physical attraction, but I'm struggling with the emotional part - Mostly jealousy and breaking with my belief in monogamy. It's like overlapping Vs - an emotional V with a physical V offset 120 degrees. It's a triad only when viewed from above.

But why does she have to be your "third" as in the joint girlfriend of BOTH you and your wife, when only your wife is into her?

In the age gap thread you imply that you are considering dating her too? But like...why? Why can't it be a vee where your wife can date her if they want to date each other, and you aren't involved?

 

[ref2018]

But why does she have to be your "third" as in the joint girlfriend of BOTH you and your wife, when only your wife is into her?

In the age gap thread you imply that you are considering dating her too? But like...why? Why can't it be a vee where your wife can date her if they want to date each other, and you aren't involved?

Apparently the "third" is into both of them. She is already emotionally involved with the wife and prefers women, but also likes having sex with men, so it would be a FWB type of thing with the husband and a full-on girlfriend-girlfriend relationship with the wife (*if* the wife ends up deciding that she does like having sex with a woman).

This information was in that user's original advice thread.

 

[SquishyHusk]

But why does she have to be your "third"

I guess she doesn't. And if she told me she didn't want to, that would have been it. I had thought in the beginning that she was only into women. I was a bit surprised when she told me she likes to be with men too. She is very seductive, and had said she wants to have sex with me. I just question her motivations. I worry that she thinks she has to sleep with me to get with my wife. I've told them they are free to explore without me.
Right now though, wife and friend spend so much time together, I'm feeling pretty left out. Even if it was just a V, there should be a better balance.

 

[Magdlyn]

You see, I've always thought the same about that article, too. I feel like this whole issue is mostly discussed by people overlyinvested in it because they're typical of the role. They're a potential unicorn, or spouse of a unicorn hunting couple.

Why would a unicorn-hunting couple (or a unicorn) be "overly' invested in exploring how triads work? They should be investigating the subject, to learn about the pitfalls and what to expect.

I was once a part of a unicorn-hunting couple, with my ex husband, for about six months. I'd read the Ethical Slut, which was about the only info out there about polyamory at the time. I wish I'd been more invested in the subject then, and learned why it was a a bad idea. But there was nowhere else to learn about it. In 1999 we barely had internet. Poly has exploded in the last 23 years. There is a ton of info out there. But people are still making the same mistakes and going through the same painful repercussions.

So, I'd like to discuss this subject because we still get newbie formerly mono, excited, optimistic couples coming here about every other day who don't know squat about why triads are hard and almost guaranteed to fail. If they aren't doing an intro, they are placing ads in the Dating section.

The thing about discretion is equally true for a totally parallel vee. The way they speak makes it seem as if the issues with closeting are only relevant in one of these triads, like the ethical issues dilute somewhat the more vee and parallel you are.

You're referring to the "Someone... Unicorn" article? I started this thread to discuss the simpler article with the basic math of juggling multiple relationships, which can be hard enough for an experienced polyamorist, and pretty much impossible for a couple who's been mono for 8, 15, 20 years.

The next issue presented is that somehow, in a UH triad, the fact that things like remaining in the closet are presented as a dealbreaker without the other person's input.

Maybe you could quote the passage if you are referring to the "Someone... Unicorn" article. I don't know what you mean by "dealbreaker... other person's input."

That's true of any relationship. People have dealbreakers; some might be just maintaining the boundary of another partner. This isn't arguing against a UH triad, it's actually arguing against relationships with partnered people. That's why I can't really get behind it.

It's OK if you're not behind it.

This goes back to the other conversation. Is it okay to never let a partner into your home for any reason if you "own the choice"? You see to me, the ethical problem is more about whether it's okay to never let someone you refer to as a partner in your home. Why you won't let them is mostly irrelevant to me. I don't think it's right to say not under any circumstances to a partner. Stick to casual hookups with that lack of availability. Doesn't matter if you're poly or mono.

Well, that's not the topic of this thread. But thanks, I guess.

So again, I can't see this is a problem unique to these couples that make them so much worse than anyone else. I think you just need to accept that people come with varying amounts of prerequisites and you don't get a say in them. You're allowed to walk away at any time.

I am not saying anyone is "bad," much less "worse." I am just trying to inform people so that they don't try and form triads because they think that's the easiest way to do poly as a (formerly) mono couple, because it's actually harder. I am trying to save them (and their hypothetical new partners) trouble and pain. I wish I'd known this back when I tried to do it.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

Why would a unicorn-hunting couple (or a unicorn) be "overly' invested in exploring how triads work? They should be investigating the subject, to learn about the pitfalls and what to expect.

Sorry I typed out that whole post far too quickly. I'll explain.

By overly invested. I mean invested to a point they're unable to be subjective. It turns into either a vigorous defence of unicorn hunting ignoring ethical issues, or sweeping statements about unicorn hunting that are true of other polyamorous configurations.

So, I'd like to discuss this subject because we still get newbie formerly mono, excited, optimistic couples coming here about every other day who don't know squat about why triads are hard and almost guaranteed to fail.

I also want to discuss it. I just don't think these issues are particular to couples that want to date together. They're equally true for many (espcially new to poly) couples who are up for dating separately.

I started this thread to discuss the simpler article with the basic math of juggling multiple relationships, which can be hard enough for an experienced polyamorist, and pretty much impossible for a couple who's been mono for 8, 15, 20 years.

That's what I'm saying. I don't see how those issues are specific to couples who want to date together.

Well, that's not the topic of this thread. But thanks, I guess.

I brought up that example because I don't think there are things that are more okay just because the couple are not unicorn hunters. I don't think it's worse when they do it. That's why I'm patently aware that it can occur in all poly relationships with partnered people. Not just people who want a triad.

so that they don't try and form triads because they think that's the easiest way to do poly as a (formerly) mono couple, because it's actually harder. I am trying to save them (and their hypothetical new partners) trouble and pain. I wish I'd known this back when I tried to do it.

Do you really think that the issues that occurred simply couldn't have occurred if you were only dating one of the couple and was metamour to the other? I'm asking genuinely.

When I think back on my own experiences, it really wasn't. In fact, the times I have entered something close to a triad with an established couple, they've been less problematic than some married het men I dated separately from their spouse. Their have been common themes, but the very worse experiences have been in relationships that were a vee.

I think the other thing that sways me is my knowledge that closed triads that effectively started with a UH couple seem to work much better when heterosexuality isn't a feature of any of the relationships. I ponder how much of what we talk about with UH couples is actually just the problems with heteronormativity. That's why they're pervasive even you step away from UH.

Oh the other thing? Lack of a concrete definition. Even in online spaces. For instance, I think on fetlife, the most popular posters and even the mods stepped in to say that UH must have some traits. Those include dating together with no option of ending one of those relationships. I'm also fairly sure the expectation of equality is also a factor. And being closed is also a must. If it doesn't have those features, it's not UH because it doesn't trap the unicorn in the same way. It's just a triad.

The mods stepped in because they wanted to work out who could get the UH derision and who couldn't. Some want to keep it very narrow so they can be "right" when they state what's wrong with it.

On Reddit, they say it's only the expectation to date together. Other things like being open or closed or "equal feelings between all" are common but not necessary to deem someone a unicorn hunter.

If were going to say these couples are anything from unwise to inherently predatory (as they do in some places), we need to have a fairly rigid definition of how to identify them

 

[JaneQSmythe]

I like the new article as a simpler explanation of the complexity of a triad. If people digest that and want more details we can follow up with the UH article.

I think an important take-away from either of the articles, that is kind of only mentioned in passing, is that every single relationship grows and changes at different rates and in different ways because people are unique and our interactions with others are also unique.

When my V was dating Lotus (which was how SHE saw it), our relationships were very different:

1.) Dude and Lotus - they were "dating", whatever that meant to them, but they planned time, 2 person sleep-overs, dates together (sometimes these were dates where MrS and I and her husband TT were at the same event as well), and talked/texted between IRL encounters. At some point Dude mentioned to me that he wasn't sure they would be friends if they weren't dating...which seems weird to me, but whatever?

2.a.) Me(JaneQ) and Lotus - FWB and female confidant, she was sexually attractive to me and I was interested in sex with her one-on-one or with either or both of my boys or her husband (I'm a slut like that!) - whatever she was in the mood for. When we were physically in the same place then she would talk to me about her thoughts on her relationships with each of us and her history, past experiences, etc. We occasionally planned "girl outings" but rarely phoned or texted (which I don't do much of anyway)

2.b) Me(JaneQ) and TT (Lotus's husband) - FWBs of convenience, no penis involvement (my preference) but other sexual activity and some conversation (nothing deep). No contact outside of group get-togethers. More of a swinger-type thing, I'm guessing.

3.) MrS and Lotus - Emotional relationship. They were sexually attractive to each other but MrS is more into cuddles and connection. They talked more (and more intimately) than the other dyads.

When she decided that she needed to break up with Dude, she felt that she needed to stop seeing me and MrS as well. That it would be "too awkward". Her call. MrS missed her the most when she "broke up" with us, and had the most contact with her afterwards. Now that Dude is out of the picture, MrS was the one who reached out to her and her husband (TT) to resume a friendship type relationship. Fine with me, nothing sexual has come up (also fine with me).

To me this was "organic" in the sense that one of us (Dude) found a partner and then she met the rest of us and stuff happened (or didn't). But there was no "expectation" (on our parts) of mutual compatability. Dude dated other women that MrS and/or I a.) didn't meet, or b.) didn't like. (MrS did go to a couple of concerts with one of the chicks as they shared musical tastes. She and I had literally nothing in common. We all went to dinner once.)

Long-winded example of how it is possible to be involved with the same person but not "equal". Don't try to force it. Don't assume it. Don't expect it. In actual fact, I probably knew way too much about each other person's relationships with each of the other people. Due to my profession and personality, however, I am (probably too) good at compartmentalizing and shaping my responses accordingly.

JaneQ

 

[Magdlyn]

Sorry. I typed out that whole post far too quickly. I'll explain.

By overly invested I mean invested to a point they're unable to be subjective. It turns into either a vigorous defence of unicorn hunting, ignoring ethical issues, or sweeping statements about unicorn hunting that are true of other polyamorous configurations.

I also want to discuss it. I just don't think these issues are particular to couples that want to date together. They're equally true for many (especially new to poly) couples who are up for dating separately.

It can't be "equal" when the numbers are greater.

That's what I'm saying. I don't see how those issues are specific to couples who want to date together.

They aren't specific, they just happen more often. The instances are more numerous.

I brought up that example because I don't think there are things that are more okay just because the couple are not unicorn hunters. I don't think it's worse when they do it. That's why I'm patently aware that it can occur in all poly relationships with partnered people, not just people who want a triad.

They can happen. They just happen more often in a triad.

Do you really think that the issues that occurred simply couldn't have occurred if you were only dating one of the couple and was metamour to the other? I'm asking genuinely.

Yes, I do. Just by looking at the numbers of r'ships in a triad (seven), as opposed to in a V (three), the ways things can go awry are greater.

When I think back on my own experiences, it really wasn't. In fact, the times I have entered something close to a triad with an established couple, they've been less problematic than some married het men I dated separately from their spouse. There have been common themes, but the very worse experiences have been in relationships that were a vee.

I acknowledge that is your experience, but I am talking in general, not just sharing anecdotes.

I think the other thing that sways me is my knowledge that closed triads that effectively started with a UH couple seem to work much better when heterosexuality isn't a feature of any of the relationships. I ponder how much of what we talk about with UH couples is actually just the problems with heteronormativity. That's why they're pervasive even you step away from UH.

I'd be interested to see why you think it's important for all three people in a triad to be bi if there are only two genders. If the triad consists of one gender, they could all be gay. If the triad is of mixed genders (male, female, transgender, gender-non-conforming) yes, it would be most convenient for all three members to be pansexual.

Oh the other thing? Lack of a concrete definition, even in online spaces. For instance, I think on Fetlife, the most popular posters and even the mods stepped in to say that unicorn hunting must have some traits. Those include dating together, with no option of ending one of those relationships. I'm also fairly sure the expectation of equality is also a factor. And being closed is also a must. If it doesn't have those features, it's not UH because it doesn't trap the unicorn in the same way. It's just a triad.

There have been couples come here who are looking to "add a third," "find a girl to share," who, when questioned, said they'd be okay if she had another partner. But maybe they're just a bit more educated than the "typical" unicorn hunters.

The mods stepped in because they wanted to work out who could get the UH derision and who couldn't. Some want to keep it very narrow so they can be "right" when they state what's wrong with it.

Well, that's just mean. We aren't mean here like on reddit. It's against our rules.

On Reddit, they say it's only the expectation to date together. Other things, like being open or closed, or "equal feelings between all" are common, but not necessary to deem someone a unicorn hunter.

If we're going to say these couples are anything from unwise to inherently predatory (as they do in some places), we need to have a fairly rigid definition of how to identify them.

Okay, but that's a bit off topic. I am talking about unicorn hunters, specifically. Not so much about organic triads that may start out a a dyad and move into a relationship of three. I am not even talking about whether couples seeking a hot bi babe are predatory. I am just talking about how triads are much harder to do than Vs, not easier, as newbie couples often think.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

I'd be interested to see why you think it's important for all three people in a triad to be bi

Sorry I wasn't clear. I was trying to be very inclusive but also precise. I mean when there are no M/f couples in the triad. I'm saying it that way rather than gay or lesbian to account for other gender identities. I didn't say queer relationships because some people feel a M/f relationship where one party is queer makes the relationship itself clear and that's a whole different debate.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

They just happen more often in a triad.

So you think that generally we see more triad issues than vee issues? I disagree. I think at least half the people with problems are in vee relationships where there isn't any expectation of sexual or romantic intimacy between the couple.

unicorn hunters

Right... so what's the features of a UH vs someone who wants a triad. Or does wanting a triad make you either a unicorn or UH by default?

I'm really not being difficult here for no purpose. I think this inconsistency in why we say it's such a bad idea is part of why they ignore us.

 

[TavMac]

...

Right... so what's the features of a UH vs someone who wants a triad. Or does wanting a triad make you either a unicorn or UH by default?

...

Please ignore me if I'm just talking nothing about nothing. But, I do want to try.

Is it possible this (UH vs someone who wants a triad vs blanket-wanting-triad-makes-you-UH) has more to do about delivery, presentation, and a TRIAD ONLY goal VERSUS oh-I-think-this-is-something-we-may-all-like-possibility? I'm just putting it out there, that's all. And I ALSO understand that I'm totally going into the, "I know it when I see it" type of argument, which is always tough to be an argument.

I know that when I approached someone I liked outside of my current relationship, they had not known me as a polyamorous person, and I had only just found out after they made a post on social media and referred to polyamory. And so, after having been reading here (and yes on Reddit) for so long, I felt like I could make a genuine approach by telling them, essentially, that I really liked them, I was unaware of their relationship availability, but I would very much, at least, have a real-person-to-person friendship with someone else who was polyamorous. And if they were available for more, or liked me more, then that would be great, or if they liked my partner, then that would be great too, and that if they wanted to date the both of us as a couple, I would question their sanity, but I guess we could talk about it.

At a base level, I was really hoping for friendship, and someone to talk to and share experiences with, who might not always connect with someone that is monogamous. And I had/have seen such varying practices of polyamory that I didn't want to negate something that this person might want. It's really quite a neurotic approach, but I wanted them to be a friend, at least.

Now, while that ^^^ was a jumbled mess, it was received well, and indeed we are friends despite their 150% polysaturation. All I'm trying to say is that maybe that ^^^ more nuanced + attempt-at-knowledgeable approach for at least meeting a friend is better than coming on to this board, and just hitting the board's populace with a personal ad that contains words like: lifestyle, third, and just-started-exploring.

So, I don't know what would make a Unicorn Hunting post, or personal ad, come off not the way that they usually do? Like, on the poly subreddit (which I think has done away with unicorn hunting personals/posts?), would the right way to format the title be, "MF/M/F looking for F"? Then they might find a personal that's hopefully better than what I told my friend a couple paragraphs up. But the thing is, people wouldn't do that, would they? Most of the time, it's a couple that's NOT looking for any other relationship-type possibilities, right? And they (acting only as a team) don't have ANY other romantic relationships outside of this one, right? AND, they wouldn't let their unicorn have another relationship outside of the triad, right?

Like I said, you might want to ignore my post. I'm trying to answer that question of "When is it Unicorn Hunting?" versus liking someone, hoping something romantic develops, and maybe their particular desires come back and want something group-ish from THEIR side.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

I'm trying to answer that question of, "When is it Unicorn Hunting?" versus liking someone, hoping something romantic develops, and maybe their particular desires come back and they want something group-ish from THEIR side.

This is why I think it's probably better to speak about the issues individually.

Closeting: Why it can be oppressive and demeaning to other partners

Veto rules: Why they can be a bad idea

Simultaneous dating rules: Like, you must date us both (triad) or we can only date when the other is dating (vee).

KTP (kitchen table poly) vs parallel poly: What's best for you? Does a triad have to be KTP? Spoiler alert: no.

Then there is none of this: "You're unicorn hunters," "No, we're not."

 

[Magdlyn]

They made a post on social media and referred to polyamory... I felt like I could make a genuine approach by telling them essentially that I really like them, I was unaware of their relationship availability, but I would very much like (at least) to have a real-person-to-person friendship with someone else who is polyamorous.

That's simple and straight to the point.

And if they were available for more, or liked me more, then that's great.

Also, IF you were indeed attracted to them, asking them to consider romance or sex is also OK.

or if they liked my partner, then that's great too,

Here is where you lost me. Why on earth would you offer your partner to this person? (Let's call your partner Abe.) Did Abe see their profile and tell you they liked them?

Or are you just imagining the new person would somehow want to start a friendship or relationship with Abe just because Abe is your partner?

Why would you think that? IMO, it's like sitting at a bar and chatting up someone and saying, "Hey, do you like this person X sitting on the other side of me too? Do you like X better than me? Would you like to date X?" It's just like, totally random, to offer a near stranger the friendship of a complete other person, when it's you that wants to get to know them better.

and that if they wanted to date the both of us as a couple, I would then question their sanity, but I guess we could talk about it.

Again, there is no need to offer your partner Abe to any random person you happen to like or want to date.

The way I'd do it is: Ask your internet friend on a date. Go on date. If date goes well, and you keep seeing them, maybe they'd meet Abe at some point. Maybe AFTER you know you like the new date person pretty well, and they like you, you ask them to coffee or dinner to meet Abe, just as friends. Beyond that is too much like matchmaking. And you're inviting in an icky "date us as a couple" concept, which really isn't necessary and promotes the stereotype that polyamory=triads/group sex.

At a base level, I was really hoping for friendship, and someone to talk to and share experiences that might not always connect with someone that is monogamous. And I had/have seen such varying practices of polyamory that I didn't want to negate something that maybe this person wanted.

Negate something they wanted? If you don't want a triad, not suggesting a triad is only natural. If they ONLY want a triad, then that's their problem.

It's really quite a neurotic approach...

...

Now, while that ^^^ was a jumbled mess, it was received well, and indeed we are friends despite their 150% polysaturation. And all I'm trying to say is that maybe that ^^^ more nuanced + attempt-at-knowledgeable approach for at least meeting a friend is better than coming on to this board, and just hitting the board's populace with a personal ad that contains words like: lifestyle, third, and just-started-exploring.

Oh, is that what your point was? (By the way, this board here is not a dating site. People's personal ads go to the section for that, and they rarely get any action. We only have that section as a dumping ground for ads. Our board is for information, support, advice and friendship. Sometimes if you post often enough, you might start getting DMs from someone who wants a more personal relationship with you, but as far as I know, that's pretty rare. We mods are more likely to get complaints from people who are being propositioned in DMs and not liking it.)

I'm glad you made a friend. But you could have saved yourself some breath by just waiting until they said, "I'm interested in making a poly friend but I'm not dating anyone new because I'm saturated." There was no need to mention them "liking" your partner.

So, I don't know what would make a Unicorn Hunting post, or personal ad, come off not the way that they usually do? Like, on the poly subreddit (which I think has done away with unicorn hunting personals/posts?), would the right way to format the title be, "MF/M/F looking for F"? And then they write a personal that's hopefully better than what I told my friend a couple paragraphs up? But the things is, people wouldn't do that, would they? Most of the time it's a couple that's NOT looking for any other relationship-type possibilities, right?

For me, the only kind of personal ad that doesn't creep me out is one where one person is seeking one other person. They aren't a UH couple and they aren't a unicorn only looking to date a couple.

And they (acting only as a team) don't have ANY other romantic relationships outside of this one, right? AND, they wouldn't let their unicorn have another relationship outside of the triad, right?

Well, that's a closed triad. Maybe that is more of a common desire? I don't know.

Like I said, you might want to ignore my post. I'm trying to answer that question of "when is it Unicorn Hunting" versus liking someone, hoping something romantic develops, and maybe their particular desires come back and want something group-ish from THEIR side.

If they want something "groupish" I wouldn't date them. I've had plenty of men want to date/fuck my partner just because they're talking to me or dating me. She's not up for grabs for any Tom, Dick or Harry just because she's my partner. (We're both women.) It makes the guy who suggests it seem like he just wants to stick his dick in any random hole. He doesn't like ME, personally, he's just horny and will fuck anything that moves. Me, my gf, hopefully both.

I guess our problem is outside of the usual issue with "triads." It's usually an MF couple where the M is straight (or at least not real motivated to be with men) and the woman is bi and they want to share a woman so that she can explore her bi side and he can watch or (hopefully) take part.

But my point for this thread is that this typical MF couple just imagines that they can share this dream woman who will like both of them equally and they will both like her. Which like, hardly ever happens. I wasn't thinking about:

Unicorn should have no other partners
Whether or not the couple has veto powers
Etc., as Seasoned mentioned

Sure, there are overlaps in problems with Vs and triads, but I posted to point out the problems UNIQUE to forced or prescribed triads, which proceed out of ignorance and fantasy.

 

[Magdlyn]

Sorry I wasn't clear. I was trying to be very inclusive but also precise. I mean when there are no M/f couples in the triad. I'm saying it that way rather than gay or lesbian to account for other gender identities. I didn't say queer relationships because some people feel a M/f relationship where one party is queer makes the relationship itself clear and that's a whole different debate.

Are you saying a pair of pansexuals, like me and pixi, for example, could be "good" unicorn hunters? Well, we could certainly be successful ones, going by all the males I've talked to that ask me if they can also bang my gf, before they ever even meet me lol

Otherwise, I'm not sure why say, a gay male couple would be "better" unicorn hunters than a MF couple. Other than that open relationships have been around more in the gay male community than in the straight community. But from my understanding, most gay male couples will manage to keep the primary relationship apart from/more important than, their other lovers, which are kept much more casual.

I'm not very experienced with the lesbian community, but maybe lesbians are a bit better than cis straight males at negotiating triads because of how women are raised in our culture, to be better as expressing emotions. Also, there's perhaps less urgency overall because there is far less testosterone floating around.

So you think that generally we see more triad issues than vee issues? I disagree. I think at least half the people with problems are in vee relationships where there isn't any expectation of sexual or romantic intimacy between the couple.

I am not talking about what we see here, volume of problems. Vs will have problems. Maybe we see more V problems here because most of them are presented by people who've opened sort of accidentally: one partner getting feelings for someone else, deciding they are poly, dropping the poly bomb on their mono partner, and all the ensuing aftermath of that.

I am talking about unicorn hunters in general, their fantasies, their expectations, their plans, being so at odds with the realities of trying to proscribe a triad with a hot bi babe (HBB), who start things with one HBB after another, only to have them fail spectacularly, over and over again, for years, or until they give up.

Or, on the other hand, post ads for years and NEVER actually get a real response.

They might take a young needy woman into their lives, but treat her badly, using her as if she were a brainless sex toy, or as a nanny/housekeeper.

Or, get with one HBB after another, who turns out to have daddy issues, or be a grifter, or be mentally ill, etc., and uses the couple, or upsets their lives terribly, wasting time and money and causing all kinds of terrible hurt.

Or, of course, the HBB really only wants one member of the couple and just pretends to like the other one for a while until she's got the one she likes hooked.

Or, yes, one member of the couple uses veto power (and maybe they never told the unicorn vetoing her was on the table). Which can also happen in a V, as you said.

[What are] the features of a UH vs someone who wants a triad? Or does wanting a triad make you either a unicorn or UH by default?

There's a difference between being OK with it if a person you are dating starts to like your partner and wants to date them too, with ONLY wanting a HBB (or hot bi male, for that matter) to "share," to "add to our relationship."

I'm really not being difficult here for no purpose. I think this inconsistency in why we say it's such a bad idea is part of why they ignore us.

I'm not sure it's any inconsistency in the actual poly culture, so much as newly "poly" UH couples just not doing any research at all and going on fantasies they whisper to each other during sex or maybe while watching threesome porn together. They're not ignoring us, they're just too vanilla and mainstream to know where to find really good poly info outside of those fake mainstream shows on TV.