advice and reality check?

C

Clay

New member
Hey! I'd like to ask if anyone could give me advice. This is no great consensual poly story, I fear, but probably the best place to ask for advice or judgement anyway:

My NP Julia and I have a long-term mono relationship of over 10 years. I’ve always been interested in and rooted for poly, but I was to afraid to stand up for it (and the first years were just good, as things were fresh). During the last years I told Julia she was free to date anyone, from my side, if she would like (I made clear I meant it), but she didn’t want to.

I care for my partner, but our sex life has been frustrating me for ages. She hadn’t shown much interest in recent years, and at this point I know I want something/someone different sexually. We talked about our struggles, but, all in all, she approached me so little, ultimately I didn’t feel wanted or valued physically.

On a different level Julia and I shared much and really supported each other. But over the last 1-2 years I stopped projecting onto her my fantasies and wishes. I looked at the circumstances and accepted that she had rarely ever initiated sex, and that she is the way she is in this regard. I finally felt better with it, but I lost attraction to her in terms of sex. What is also a factor in our relationship is that my partner is introverted, so a lot of our social life has been divided, since I am not.

---

Sadly, Julia got chronically ill about a year ago and treatment is unclear. She might get better, she might get much worse and not recover. Mostly she has fatigue and is stuck in our house. For a year, she's been afraid of the future, her health, her body's abilities, of losing her (part time/home office) job, of people stopping Covid measures altogether soon (since it potentially poses a real threat to her), etc.

This situation is hard on our relationship. There are so few options for what we can do or share together. We are both doing individual therapy currently.

---

Now, while I was abroad nearly ½ a year ago, I got to know Chiara, and fell in love pretty hard during the last days of a several-week stay. Not much happened then, but I knew I’d probably travel again for work and be able to see her. Until then, it affected my sleep terribly. I was in an NRE-like state already. I felt passion and interest for this new person and struggled, feeling guilty about my ill partner.

I still felt deeply connected to Julia. I told Julia soon after coming back about whom I had met, that I wanted to be romantic with and was sexually interested in Chiara, and that I thought I did not feel I could remain in our mono relationship as it was. I also told her about Chiara and me still texting and chatting, as it continued to happen. I felt both people belonged to my life and had value. Chiara also had a clear picture of the situation on the other side regarding Julia.

After her initial refusal, Julia said she could imagine opening our relationship, but being sick and fighting all her own topics, did not feel capable of doing it now, in this very disbalanced situation. I understood, but I struggled to accept it. Also it was unclear if this situation would change, or when, and to what degree. It was hard to separate illness, our previously shriveled-down sex life and for me to articulate my needs after a long phase of trying to mainly take care of her.

I could have refused to travel abroad for my job again – but I chose to go. Ultimately I wanted to be with Chiara while away. I informed Julia that I thought I was very likely not able to accept her denial of me being with Chiara. We agreed to disagree. Before I left, we only had an agreement that I would keep her informed about what might happen as things unfolded - which I did. This was hard when you are not used to very open communication it AND in disagreement, but I did and took the blame and anger. It was 2 shitty weeks between Julia & me... and more after I returned.

Afterwards I moved out, at Julia's request. 1,5 months passed. It was hard to be emotionally close to Julia after having broken our previous mono relationship. It was also unclear how Chiara felt for a while, and I started to have doubts about Julia.

To speed things up: I am still in contact with Chiara, whom I’d like to stay in a long-distance relationship with. And I am seeing my NP Julia. I keep both informed about what's happening.

Chiara & I both wish to see each other again. I'm really doing hard to let go of her. I didn't feel this good with someone for years. I don't know how things between us would work in the long run, but who does? She was initially reluctant towards the idea of poly, but would be okay with seeing how things developed and ultimately how she feels living it.

She asked me if it was okay to date her ex for sex twice in the meantime, which I agreed to, and we had an interesting and intimate chat afterwards.

We live an airplane trip apart. It’s hard to say (NRE..! :) ) how serious things are, since we’d been only together for barely two weeks actually dating, but we've talked a lot since then and I feel things started to grow positively. But clearly, I feel I lack giving her perspective on how our connection can continue or grow since I am tied but struggling with Julia, one way or another.

Julia and I are trying to make things work, but truth be told, she wishes contact between me and Chiara would just end. It was never initiated with her consent. But I honestly think nothing would have changed if I would have gone by what felt comfortable to her and I was not able to go on. I cried for days in the process, over and over., before even dating Chiara and after. I feel terrible and wish I would have solved this mono/poly topic before Julia fell ill. Now it overshades all.

She knows I want to try poly seriously and she says this is not the problem, stating that if I give her options to feel more secure again and she gets somewhat better it could work and we might both grow with it. But matter of fact, I want to see Chiara, not in a vague future, but see her for a week or so soon, which Julia feels would wreck her sleep entirely – and worsen her health also. With Julia, it's this bad thing now. It was clear it would happen, but I didn't navigate things better ... she gladly didn't want to quit us, but her being more isolated and ill doesn't give her the resources she should have to make an easy decision against me, for example.

I have some specific questions too, but this is a long read. I'd be happy to get other's thoughts & feedback on what has happened.
​
 
Last edited:
End things with Julia, be a supportive friend, and continue your relationship with the new person.

Julia has no interest in having a mutually satisfying relationship with you and never did. She wants what she wants from your relationship, and doesn't care if you're miserable within it. A lot of people are like that, especially when it comes to sex.

End your romantic relationship with Julia. She was never invested in it anyway. She is gaslighting you to make you work at "making her secure" when she has no intention of ever permitting a poly relationship.

End it with her now because she needs to know her situation for dealing with her illness. And just go onto more compatible partners.
 
Thanks a lot for your advice. Rereading everything, I see the point of your argument well.

I felt the same upon returning - that I would be a better supportive friend to Julia than necessarily her partner. Obviously it would be hard to be a real support when splitting up after many years together. That she has comparably few friends and a bad relationship with her family makes things harder (but is not my fault). Neither she nor I signed up for a long sickness. It's heartbreaking how it isolates a loved one. Leaving her now also feels like or is actually taking the easy way out, while she has no similar option. But staying in an unclear and emotionally challenging situation will be the worst, sooner or later. She mostly just has the energy to do few things a day, shopping, or work, or emotional work.

Maybe it's just me being involved with her, but I tend to disagree on the part of mutual satisfaction, at least in terms of framing. I truly believe to know my importance to her. She has supported me through many years in my independence in other aspects, in phases of us living for months abroad in a long-term relationship, etc. But when it comes to sexuality and feeling secure with others, she has probably issues she mostly would have to work on for herself (and didn't/couldn't tackle much). But in the end, it's very close to the way you wrote it. Either you want it or you do not, knowing I want it. There are likely co-dependency issues present also.

Since I previously stated I'd prefer a poly setup, and she wanted to try to continue, I didn't split. At the same time, we don't have a poly set-up currently. It's rather a mess. I understand she cannot simply transition from one to one hundred (maybe some people can, but majority can't, for reasons). I'm basically offering a totally new relationship and have damaged the existing one (the extent depends on the viewpoint). I could have taken more care to make her feel better in the process. But we didn't agree/work on it together, so.... yeah.

Julia thinks that a rough break-up with Chiara would also damage her and my relationship. When she stated she'd feel best if Chiara and my connection just ended slowly, it was not a request or anything, but talking very honestly, just how I stated to her how I miss another person.

---

If I'd see Chiara it would be not for an evening, but for probably two weeks. And we'd do a lot of things that Julia is incapable right now to experience for herself, while she is in a kind of lockdown-like situation due to health. I see little coping strategies that could be applied when jealousy strikes her.

I don't think I can make anything work with Julia if I cancel my connection to Chiara or delay it until unknown. I will need to dwell on your thoughts for now.
 
Hello Clay,

I'm sorry you and Julia had a difficult sex life in recent years. Sometimes people grow apart. It does not mean that either of you are "the bad guy." I have particular feeling for your situation as I, too, was in a situation where I lost interest in my wife, and she came down with an illness (Alzheimer's). This was all difficult and complicated on many levels. Looking back, I wish I had been more loving towards her. And I, too, fell in love with someone during that time. I just identify with you in that regard. Of course, your situation is somewhat different, in that Julia's condition doesn't stop her from having an awareness of what's going on, hence you can't just become a "caregiver" to her. Your situation is complicated and difficult.

I hope things work out for you, Julia, and Chiara.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I'm sorry for your situation. Life can really suck sometimes. As I've grown older I've come to accept that friendships can come and then go. Either platonic or romantic, some relationships are for a season, for a year, for a few years, or maybe for decades/a lifetime. You really can't force a relationship to continue when it has gone past its shelf-life.

I was married very young and my ex h and I outgrew each other. I am a person who is very open to change, while he is more conservative. I always felt poly, although back in the day, the concept was not understood. You were either monogamous for life, a serial monogamist, a swinger going to parties to swap spouses, or some kinda hippie in a commune where everyone slept with everyone, with the help of drugs, probably, and a LOT of turnover as the free spirits came and went.

Modern polyamory began in the late 1990s and I read the first book on it almost right away: The Ethical Slut.

(As for what happened with me and my ex h, we split after 30 years together, and here I am 14 years after that, doing great with 2 wonderful partners. [Not that it was always a bed of roses lol]) My ex has had the same gf for almost that amount of time too.

Anyway, try not to be too hard on yourself for drifting apart from your wife. Did you made vows to be together, to have and to hold, in sickness and in health, forever? Did she break her vow and stop "having" (sex with you) and holding you? Are you breaking your vow by not keeping yourself only unto her, and feeling less like a husband and more like a friend, even though she has become ill?

People get ill. Sometimes they are in a good and healthy relationship and sometimes they are not. If she doesn't have much in the way of friends/chosen family now, as you said, that's been caused by her introversion, not by you.

If she has had no sex drive for years, even before getting sick, and you feel unsatisfied, you do have the right to change the arrangement and "break" your vows. I personally think declaring those vows as a young person is unrealistic. Who knows what the future holds? Who knows how you might change? A male/female hetero relationship is a building block that benefits society. It doesn't always benefit the individuals in the relationship.

Anyway, that's me being a philosopher. I hope it provides food for thought. Just one more personal note: what if things don't work out long term with Chiara, and you're not with Julia? Where will you be and what will you do? Don't leave Julia for Chiara. Leave her for yourself.
 
A late update. I stayed with Julia and we became NPs again.

She did not get better in her health, neither could she really forgive me for betraying her with Chiara, she stresses about all aspects of her life. Things between us got better after a few months with me helping her in various ways, but at a certain point I decided I would go for a work period abroad gain and she felt let down by me since, having to cover her health issues alone. for a while.This keeps coming up over and over again. I am held responsible for her loneliness. I understand it was a one-sided decission by me to go away for work, but she had simply stated its impossible for her and gave no space in it to discuss how or if. I refused to accept this level of communication and said yes to my employer (to take a actually really great job for about 2 months). Its been bad since. She wants me to make up for it. I don't see how I will be able to. Maybe I ignore how bad it all is for her. When we talk, I crack and wonder how uncaring I am, at other times - I see my part of this life and I don't want both of us to go down because of relationship expectations. What I do understand is I am not well enough there for her in some way. But I don't see why I have to be shamed for falling in love with someone else. It doesn't excuse me hurting Julia, but I want to love.

Never the less - things between me an Chiara turned ... awful.

About a year back there where a few weeks time where Chiara and I had little contact - so about the time I first wrote here. I slowed down sicne there where so many issues.

During these 3 weeks of sparely writing Julia reached out directly to Chiara without my knowledge, asking about her real intentions, lamenting her own difficult situation: Chiara freaked out about having hurt someone, about being exposed, and that it's not going to work anyway between us since she doesn't ever see herself comfortable in an open relationship. She stated she wanted to quit and stopped communications soon after altogether.

I understood it was very tricky and that I could at that point not provide enough space in my life and had initially accepted her decission. I cried a lot, but we parted respectful of each other. Me, in the hope of changing my life and re-connecting. But with communication at 0 due to Chiara, I tended my relationship with Julia, comfort her.. while not being able to tacle underlying relationship issues. We stayed together in a good-bad way.

Months passed during which Chiara and I where both feeling hurt. I told myself she was not interested in a relationship style I would need in the long run, to make it somehow managable for me she dumped me. She didn't respond when I reached out at all. We would have had overlaps trough work at some point, but she decided to avoid things benefical for her in order to avoid me. I think not many things in my life have been so hard as being unable to talk once in a while. I was warned, its not technically ghosting, but it felt very close to it.

Working abord now, I have met a few times Chiara by chance. I didn't contact her beforhand either, but she knew. She was mostly reluctant or wanted to keep all things 'light' when we met. What baffled me is, she not once gave us the chance to sit and talk as two human beings explaining their side of it all. I asked for it then, she said yes, but never actually did give it a true moment. I felt I would need this so much, just once. I tried once during which she stayed ice cold, stating she had nothing to say, ending it all after a few minutes by walking off. I realized I needed to focus on all other aspects of my life - and I improved (from a recently again very lovelorn position).

Now I bumped into her once when she was drunk. She asked if she read correctly why my bodylanguage still says I want her (her statment was more.. graphic). She also said she had to be so harsh because she had been so angry at me. We managed a hug in between. That was it. I still miss her and am stirred up these days. I expect she will not communicate further again. :(
 
Last edited:
I could be wrong in my impression. To me this sounds like a really dragged out break up compounded by illness and you kind of waffling rather than being decisive.

Things with Julia were declining before the illness. She's introverted and lost her interest in sex. You are not introverted and still want to share sex.

Then she got sick and you seem to have taken a caregiver role. And/or maybe felt bad breaking up with her while she's sick.

Then you met Chiara while traveling and seemed to hit it off. While you were honest with Julia about all that? And she's staying in another form she could finally think about poly? This isn't that other form. It is what it is.

Julia and I are trying to make things work, but truth be told she’d wish contact between me and Chiara to just end.
Click to expand...

I think you could accept moving out and finally break up with Julia. Moving back was not a good idea.

Be exes and friends if you both want that, but let the idea GO. Because even if you and Julia do change to poly and it's still not especially compatible. She's introverted and doesn't want sex with you.

Chiara may have been a "light bulb moment" person for you but it doesn't have to be more than that. I think Julia overstepped in talking to Chiara and dumping all that stuff on her from the sky. I also think LDRs are tough and I think most people don't stay with the first person they poly date. SOMEONE has to be the first, but that doesn't mean you are locked in together forever. And Chiara was willing to experiment a but she didn't want long term polyamory anyway. And that break up was kinda dragged out too. Not as bad as this one but still. ( Do you do that in all your relationships? Drag out the break ups? )

Bottom line? You still want polyamory and Julia does not.

So stop dragging things out with Julia and break up. That's one way to make things work. Allow the relationship shape to CHANGE. You and her STOP trying to be romantic partners. Maybe change to "plain exes" who don't talk. Or do that for a while and change again to "exes and friends" who do talk instead.

That is my suggestion to you. Break up.

I think Julia and her illness is dragging you down. You say you are NP but do not mention if you are married. If you are not married, you are not next of kin. Contact next of kin and make them aware Julia is sick. Or ask Julia to do it. Also contact Dept of Children and Families or the equivalent in your country and get a social worker over here to assess and connect Julia to some help.

I know you might feel bad/guilty about breaking up while she is sick, but you can't let her illness and her weird suck you under. Your own mental and emotional health is starting to crack.

If you contact next of kin and social workers, then you can leave knowing you tried to do right by her even if she herself is making no movements to manage her health situation.
You called some helpers. You cannot do everything, but you did that much. If she refuses to take personal responsibility for her health or does not avail herself? That's on her.

You need to take care of YOUR health.

Galagirl
 
Last edited:
GalaGirl said:
This sounds like a dragged out break up compounded by illness.

Things with Julia were declining before the illness. She's introverted and lost her interest in sex. You are not introverted and still want to share sex.

Then she got sick and you seem to have taken a caregiver role. And/or maybe felt bad breaking up with her while she's sick.

Then you met Chiara while traveling and seemed to hit it off. While you were honest with Julia about all that? And she's staying in another form she could finally think about poly? This isn't that other form. It is what it is.



I think you could accept moving out and finally break up with Julia. Moving back was not a good idea.

Be exes and friends if you both want that, but let the idea GO. Because even if you and Julia do change to poly and it's still not especially compatible. She's introverted and doesn't want sex with you.

Go ahead any poly date Chiara and she can poly date whoever she wants. It will pan out or not. But however it turns out with Chiara?


Stop dragging things out with Julia and break up. That's a way to make things work. Allow the relationship shape to CHANGE. You and her STOP trying to be romantic partners. Maybe change to "plain exes" who don't talk. Or do that for a while and change again to "exes and friends" who do talk instead.

That is my suggestion to you. Stop dragging out a break up.

Galagirl
Click to expand...
Thank you. Chiara stirred me up now, but I know my life decission is about Julia. I saw a lot in SEASONEDpolyAgains answer so long ago and you hit the same button.

But its been about 15 years with Julia and we are life partners. What is not mentioned here is the hours we sit together and talk, the daily life we share, her intellect and views that enhanced my life too. But she is also so unhappy, and it's hard to love someone unhappy for long.

I carry much shame and guilt about everything since she fell sick. I wished to change forms with Julia, but we both expect different things from each other. We know it both.
 
But its been about 15 years with Julia and we are life partners. What is not mentioned here is the hours we sit together and talk, the daily life we share, her intellect and views that enhanced my life too.
Click to expand...

You can break up, take some time to heal on your own, and later, if both want to change again to "exes and friends," continue to share those talks in a friendship model, rather than a romantic-partner model.

Is it that you are scared she won't want to be exes and friends? Do you think she'd prefer "plain exes" who don't talk at all?

But she is also so unhappy, and it's hard to love someone unhappy for long.
Click to expand...

Accept that you don't love her much in this state, and need to step back from all that if it's dragging your own health down. You aren't being a fair-weather friend. You have been here a long time. You are simply FULL and starting to crack.

We are both doing individual therapy currently.
Click to expand...
Remember this?

I carry much shame and guilt about everything since she fell sick.
Click to expand...

Have you talked to your counselor about the shame and guilt you feel for being relatively healthy when she is not? The shame and guilt of not wanting to do caregiver stuff any more? The shame and guilt of not loving her like this? The shame and guilt of wanting to break up, but feeling bad about doing it right when she's sick? Anything else that might be causing "shame and guilt" feelings?


I wished to change forms with Julia, but we both expect different things from each other. We know it.
Click to expand...

So you want to change o polyamory. She does not. You both don't want to break up.

You are in anticipatory grief and not at full acceptance that this needs to end. But the logical and most sensible thing is to break up anyway, so you can STOP dragging it out and hurting yourselves and the other with dragging it out.

I suggest you talk to your counselor about all that. Then END it. If Julia is receptive, you might be able to create a last date/peaceful parting. Given her illness, perhaps do take out food and a movie, then state what you have meant to each other, and peacefully let go.

If she's not receptive, you just let go and break up without doing that.

It just doesn't sound healthy here for you to continue like this. If you're not ready to break up, do a year's trial separation. Live separately. Visit once a month or so, but no more than that. See what life is like NOT living there, being a caregiver, dealing with this illness up close. And she gets to set up her health care properly and see what that is like, rather than latching on to you so tightly.

Galagirl
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top