Advice - broken agreement/rules/boundaries

[MrA]

Hello all!

I want to start off by saying thank you for any advice you have to give here on this. Bare with me, I want to give a little backstory so that you can really understand where I am at.

My wife and I have been in the lifestyle for 2 years now (still very new). We have had 2 long term thirds which ended because they found themselves in a monogamous relationship. We took a break for a little bit. Very recently, we decided to start looking around again.

We do not just look for random hookups. My wife is very particular about who she lets in. Normally, for the first meetup my wife will meet them alone, coffee shop, bar for a drink etc. She feels she can get a better read on the person without me there because without me there, the other male is not trying to impress me, or act a certain way in front of me on the first meetup. ( I do agree with her here) we have gone on first meetups together in the past, and honestly, multiple guys focus was more on “let me impress the husband and say all the right things”. So, we started testing out solo first meetups.

My wife has gone on 3 solo meetups. First one and second one were great. She got a good read on them, met for a drink with one, coffee with another. Nothing at all happened, strictly a “get to know this person, in person meetup”. They were not the one.

Then there was the third meetup, and this is where I need some advice, or wondering if anyone else has ran into this same deal and how they handled it.

My wife and I’s communication has always been on point. She is very blunt and straightforward, doesn’t sugar coat anything but most importantly she has never strayed from any agreements we have made. (When we did have those 2 long term thirds, no boundaries were ever broken)

So, this was about 4 days ago now. We met a guy on a lifestyle app, he was looking for the sam things, very polite, great with words, good looking, all things aligned on paper. We chatted over messages (we only chat in group chats with another guy, no sidebars or solo messaging with just the wife and a third) everything was good, he wasn’t pushy, no sexual talk or anything like that.

THE AGREEMENT: For the first meetup the agreement was always “nothing past a kiss”. If she ever thought the guy may try something or things would go past a kiss then she would step away to the bathroom and message me and we would talk about it first. She meets them, things are good then we all meet up together to see if we all click. That was our agreement. At all the first meetups she’s never even came close to kissing someone or anything. And also, so far she’s never done anything sexual with a guy alone yet. We’ve talked about that being a thing once we established a solid 3rd. Just hasn’t happened yet.

KEEP IN MIND: I have watched my wife fuck other guys, get intimate etc.

They met at a bar, close to a really cool pier by the water around 7:30 at night. Had a couple drinks, chatted, she messaged me saying things were going good and all and they were about to grab another drink. They ended up going for a walk to the end of the pier. She messaged me again a bit later saying they were leaving the pier and heading back to the car to head home.

By this time it was around 10:30- 11. He kissed her at the pier, they started walking back and stopped again by the water and made out. Then he tried to touch her pussy while they were making out, in which she let him and she also touched his cock. (Both over the pants) they made it back to my wife’s car in which she gave him a ride to his vehicle that was parked pretty good ways away. (Parking sucks down by the pier) so she gave him a ride to his vehicle. When they parked, he went in for a kiss again and they started making out. Which led to pussy rubbing and finger banging. She took his cock out, blew him for awhile, and then he told her to take her pants off in which she did, got on top of Him and rode him until he came. (She said she didn’t cum, which I do believe her. Again, my wife is brutally honest) finally I get a call after midnight saying she was heading home. When she got home she told me everything, I was thrown back and super surprised because I never expected all that. However I was so turned on at the same time that we had crazy good sex.

That night, the aftermath hit and I didn’t sleep. I was very torn about breaking our agreement. On day 4 now and am still up writing on this damn blog because I just don’t understand this feeling I’m having in my head. It’s NOT the fucking, it’s not the stuff that happened. If the agreement was different, or if she would have stepped away like we agreed and talked to me first then I wouldn’t be here right now.

Something is not sitting right with me about the agreement being broken.i can’t get that out of my head. For the first time ever in our relationship I have felt like I wanted to be distant from my wife. On the second day after this happened, we were laying in bed about to go to sleep and she put her leg over me (to cuddle) and I instantly felt this weird “I don’t want you to touch me” feeling.

I ask for advice or if there’s been any similar stories here and how you handled it. I love my wife, our communication has always been amazing, never stepped outside our bounds until this.

Some may think I’m overreacting, or that this is something small. I don’t think I am because to me, being in a poly relationship, hot wife, cuck whatever the category is… you just don’t break the boundaries or agreements made. Was it a fluke? Well idk, if it was will there be another fluke. This feeling I have sucks, and I’m just not sure what to do or how to react.

Yes, we have talked about it and honestly she feels really bad about it. The whole thing was sloppy. Car fucking and public play isn’t my wife’s thing, and neither is breaking agreements. She says it will never happen again, given me tons of reassurance without having to ask for it. I am very very thankful and HAPPY she was honest with me. The details above, I only know because she told me herself. Honestly, she could have told me they kissed and things went good and I never would have known. She doesn’t want to do solo (first time) meetups anymore after that. Again that is her doing and not something I suggested. Which, I am very okay with.

Of corse I get turned on when I think about everything, I mean it’s fucking hot. But then, this weird betrayal feeling still comes over me and just makes me sick. (Literally makes me feel sick) trust is huge. We made those agreements and I literally never thought twice about it, never thought she would break it, never thought I would have to feel this.


I am sorry this post was so long. I hope a few people read the whole thing and can give me some words of wisdom here. I would love to hear from both some husband and also wives for different points of view or perspectives. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

-A

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm not too sure what to tell you. This is a polyamory board, not a swinging or casual group sex board.

It sounds like the agreement was, "Wife agrees not to share sex with other people without running it by me first." Is that it?

Did she get carried away, like a one-time thing? Does this agreement no longer work for her? Would she like to be in charge of her own body and where it goes, how she chooses to share it? Something else? Is she tired of casual group sex and wanting other things? Is she tired of being the one to organize/vet potentials?

It would have been enough to update you that she shared oral and PIV sex with Dude, and tell you if she saw a pix of his sex lab results or not, and if safer sex practices like condoms were used. She didn't need to give you all the TMI details.

I get that your wife is "brutally honest," but maybe you are over that brutality. Maybe you want "honesty with care" instead. Do you want honesty without getting into TMI or the communication being so rough on you? Would you like some consideration, like not waking you up in the night with brutal honesty that could have waited til morning, after a good night's rest? Not starting something while you were at work? Waiting til you got home? Asking first to make an appointment to talk, so you can come to the talk rested and prepared, and not just whooshing "doom from the sky" at you?

Learning the difference between:

• important and urgent
• important but not urgent
• urgent but not important
• neither important not urgent

because all things in life cannot be at the level of high alert "important AND urgent!!!"

Something is not sitting right with me about the agreement being broken. I can’t get that out of my head. For the first time ever in our relationship I have felt like I wanted to be distant from my wife. On the second day after this happened, we were laying in bed about to go to sleep and she put her leg over me (to cuddle) and I instantly felt this weird “I don’t want you to touch me” feeling.

Did you and your wife pause to update about the risk profile? Or was this a case of her sharing bare sex with Dude, and then sharing bare sex with you, because you got turned on and both got carried away?

Do you both need to get a round of labs, and talk about sex health, and not getting carried away next time?

Some may think I’m overreacting, or that this is something small. I don’t think I am, because, to me, being in a poly relationship, hot wife, cuck whatever the category is… you just don’t break the boundaries or agreements made. Was it a fluke? Well idk. If it was, will there be another fluke? This feeling I have sucks, and I’m just not sure what to do or how to react.

I could be wrong in my impression, but to me, this is not polyamory. This is a random-ish hookup with a guy she doesn't know well. You are trying to use your group sex agreements to cover it when it wasn't the usual group sex thing. And you don't have any random hookup agreements in place, so you are kinda scrambling to get a handle on this.

You are bumping into "brutally honest"-- maybe being honest, but no finesse and kinda rough on the ears/brain. Like is that much TMI actually necessary? No soft start? Just hitting you with it from the sky?

You are also bumping into the problems of "heads-up" rules.

It also just happened, so you both probably need time to clear the adrenaline and other stress hormones before being able to talk calmly about the next steps.

Of course I get turned on when I think about everything. I mean, it’s fucking hot. But then this weird betrayal feeling still comes over me and just makes me sick. Trust is huge. We made those agreements and I literally never thought twice about it, never thought she would break it, never thought I would have to feel this.

Try to remain calm and stick to routines for sleep, work, meals, working out, hobbies, etc. Even if there are some bumps in this area of life, it might help to keep your other routines stable, YKWIM?

Come to calm first. Then work with your wife to sort whatever needs sorting.

It sounds like your agreement-making talks were incomplete if you two didn't think about the consequences if agreements are broken. Then "What happens if X or Y?" stuff. Here is a new opportunity for better agreement-making.

Right now she feels bad, and it sounds like she's promising you the world to assuage her guilt, which you may not trust in because it is too soon and/or over the top. It's ok to pause/slow down. It's ok to say, "Look, I do want to talk and work this out. But I want to do it in couples counseling. Are you willing to go?" You two might talk to a counselor experienced in non-monogamy to help you make updated and realistic agreements that are keepable.

I don't know if, moving forward, you want your ENM practice to be only about group sex like before, or if new agreements will include things like random solo hookups, polyamory, hotwifing or other things. People can change over time, want different stuff, so agreements have to be reviewed periodically so they can keep pace.

Maybe this helps you find someone you can work with.

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

www.polyfriendly.org

Galagirl

 

[Tinwen]

Non-monogamy is not cheat-proof, people can cheat on their ENM agreements. Maybe it's not an unforgivable big life-breaking thing, like for some monogamous couples, but it is totally a breach of trust.

Stop contact with random date dude. In fact, stop all non-monogamous activities for now. Take time to talk about the reasons this happened.
Was it great chemistry with dude? Is it she, after years of non-monogamy, still can't say no? (weird but imaginable) Is it a long-term big thing, like she does want to solo-date? Make better agreements. Take better precautions (telling future dudes about the limits of the date in advance seems like one).

This has indeed nothing to do with polyamory.

 

[Magdlyn]

One more person here to tell you this is a board for polyamory, not a board for swinging/"the lifestyle" or casual sex, threesomes, etc.

It sounds like your wife had great chemistry with her date, had several drinks and had sex in the car. Those are the basic facts. (We didn't really need the details about every kiss, grope, text, who felt what body part when and how turned on this or that person was when. Oh well. I hope it helped you to spell it out for yourself.)

It sounds like you and she agreed to threesome sex only, MFM, with these playtoy male "thirds." Apparently your prior "thirds" didn't want to be playtoys for a couple, so they left eventually for actual one-on-one relationships, where they would get more respect.

I am not sure how you came across our board and decided, obviously without reading our Guidelines or some other threads, to post about your issues related to breaking swinger-type agreements. I know there are swinger boards out there where you would find more empathy.

Our Guidelines state upfront:

This forum was founded on the idea that communication, empathy, and the functional relationship skills so necessary for polyamorous (multiple love) relationships should be fostered here.

We are not a swingers ("lifestyle") website or a hookup site. Polyamory does not mean casual NSA sport sex.

...

Polyamory is one kind of ethical non-monogamy. It is not swinging. It does not equal group sex, partner swapping, etc.

I must say that I am aware that while swinging and polyamory are two distinct forms of ethical non-monogamy, there are certain swingers and poly people who attend the same sex-focused events. I personally don't approve of this trend because of the fact that swinging is more couple-centric and polyamory involves more personal autonomy. Swinging means casual sport sex. Polyamory can and usually does involve sex (because adult love includes romance and sex, usually), but it means "multiple loves" first and foremost. One person loving more than one person. One-on-one dating and sex. Polyamorous people can choose to have group sex, but most do not.

Either your wife simply got drunk and carried away, or she is realizing she feels constrained by constantly having to check in with you around what she does with her own body.

It's possible to feel betrayed and turned on at the same time. You're used to getting turned on seeing your wife having sex with other men. But you expect first encounters to involve you, not just your wife and a guy of her own choosing.

We often get swingers here who are making the transition to actual polyamory because swinging no longer works for them. You can search the terms swinging or swinger and see what threads pop up.

 

[Tinwen]

Still, if your wife doesn't want to do just group sex and you consider the transition to poly-type agreements, you're totally welcome

I'd like to add that making your wife meet someone on her own first if it's only group sex that's on offer doesn't seem like a good idea to me. If she can't date/have sex alone, you're a package deal? The potential should get to know the whole package. This is misleading and builds wrong expectations of later individual dates.

 

[Magdlyn]

My wife and I have been in the lifestyle for 2 years now.

OP, you probably know by now you posted on the wrong board, but I am going to address some things for other confused people who might read this.

We have had 2 long-term thirds...

If you've only been swinging for two years, and have recently taken a break, it seems these "long-term third" relationships lasted just a few months each, just long enough for the NRE to start wearing off. (NRE= new relationship energy, or infatuation.)

... which ended because they found themselves in a monogamous relationship.

I guess you mean they were dating yet another person and fell in love with that person, not that they fell in love with just one member of your couple.

We took a break for a little bit. Very recently, we decided to start looking around again.

We do not just look for random hookups. My wife is very particular about who she lets in.

I guess you don't mean "let into her vagina," but "let into our marriage." No one is coming in to your marriage. Dating partners, sex partners, play partners have a relationship with your wife and a relationship with you, since you are two individuals, not a "couple blob."

However, I am glad your wife has standards.

Normally, for the first meetup my wife will meet them alone... she can get a better read on the person without me there because the other male is not trying to impress me... on first meetups together in the past, the guy's focus was more on, “Let me impress the husband and say all the right things."

My wife has gone on 3 solo meetups. First one and second one were great. She got a good read on them. Nothing happened... [but] they were not the one.

Things went great, but they were not "The One"? That seems contradictory. Maybe they weren't interested in group sex. Maybe something else.

My wife... has never strayed from any agreements we have made. (When we did have those thirds, no boundaries were ever broken.)

We met a guy on a lifestyle app. He was looking for the same things... We only chat in group chats with another guy, no sidebars or solo messaging with just the wife and a third.

This is swinger behavior, couple-centric, to "protect the marriage" and not let the "third" get any funny ideas about dating one-on-one. This is not done in polyamory.

No sex talk

Interesting, since group sex is the goal?

For the first meetup, the agreement was always “nothing past a kiss." If she ever thought the guy may try something, she would step away to the bathroom and message me...

Talking to one's husband/wife/partner during a date in a play-by-play style is more of a swinger or hotwife thing.

We all meet up together to see if we all click.

For threesome sex, all three players need to feel okay about each other, yes.

So far she’s never done anything sexual with a guy alone. We’ve talked about that being a thing once we established a solid 3rd.

But you said you had two "long-term thirds." I guess they weren't "solid" enough.

KEEP IN MIND: I have watched my wife fuck other guys, get intimate, etc.

Right, obviously. That's the point.

They met at a bar... Had a couple drinks... she messaged me saying things were going good... they were about to grab another drink.

Three drinks might be a bit much for a first date if you want to keep a cool head and not lower your inhibitions.

They ended up going for a walk to the end of the pier. She messaged me again...

Texted again, the third text to you, at least, in a couple hours on her "one-on-one" date.

He kissed her... they made out. He touched her pussy, she touched his cock... [in the car] he went in for a kiss... they started making out... pussy rubbing and finger banging. She... blew him... he told her to take her pants off... she did... and rode him until he came. She said she didn’t cum.

Oh, she didn't cum, huh? Is that good? Is that sign of loyalty in the midst of cheating, somehow?

I hope they used a condom, at least.

When she got home she told me everything. I was thrown back and super surprised... I was so turned on... we had crazy good sex.

I [am] very torn about breaking our agreement. On day 4 now... I just don’t understand this feeling... If the agreement was different, or if she would have stepped away like we agreed, and talked to me first, then I wouldn’t be here right now.

Something is not sitting right with me about the agreement being broken.

... Our communication has always been amazing. She never stepped outside our bounds until this.

Have you asked her why she broke your agreement? Yes, you say below you have. Yet, you don't believe her. Trust needs to be rebuilt.

Was it a fluke? Well, idk.

Ask.

If it was, will there be another fluke?

If she's not happy with swinging, there will probably be more betrayals unless you come to a different agreement about one-on-one (dating and) sex now being in the mix.

We have talked about it... she feels really bad about it. The whole thing was sloppy. Car fucking and public play isn’t my wife’s thing, and neither is breaking agreements. She says it will never happen again, given me tons of reassurance... I am very very thankful and HAPPY she was honest with me. The details above, I only know because she told me herself... She doesn’t want to do solo (first time) meetups anymore...

She doesn't trust her own self to go on more individual first dates? Yet you said your first dates, meeting a guy as a couple, didn't work because the guys seemed fake, like they were just trying to say the right things to you to get in your wife's pants.

How about Wife just doesn't get drunk/tipsy on a first date anymore? Just keep it to soda or coffee? Stay in the building. No more long romantic walks on piers. No more sitting in cars alone with guys.

Trust is huge. We made those agreements... I never thought she would break it.

I would love to hear from husbands and wives for different points of view.

Well, we're not all married, and we aren't swingers here, so you'll get a range of feedback. But we are all about negotiations and agreements and trust being huge!

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm with Tinwen here— you could both vet potentials together.

I also agree with Magdlyn— it might be worth tightening up the agreements. Instead of “nothing past a kiss unless you check in,” you could make it more firm and actionable, like:

• No alcohol on first meetups
• No leaving the public meeting space alone together
• If anything starts to escalate, you leave—no pausing to decide in the moment

Even just from a general dating safety perspective, that’s a solid baseline. Not everyone out there is a safe or healthy person.

But beyond that, I think there’s a bigger conversation you two need to have.

• Have you asked whether this ENM setup still feels fair to her, now that you both are further along in the experience? Or does the setup need updates because of new information learned?
• Does your wife actually still want this dynamic as it currently exists? Is she okay being the one who organizes everything and vets everyone? Is it time to start doing that part together?
• Does she want more autonomy—like solo casual sex, dating independently, or something closer to polyamory? Not just group casual sex? Does she want to drop the group casual sex?

I could be wrong, but right now it sounds like she’s responsible for:

• Screening and vetting potentials
• Managing risk and reading people
• Enforcing boundaries for both herself and the marriage
• Making sure your feelings stay protected by sticking to the agreements
• Bringing you the “fun” parts if someone passes the test

That’s a lot to carry alone.

Meanwhile, it sounds like you’re less involved in those parts, but still expect a say in how far things go when she’s out doing that work. That can start to feel like outsourcing the uncomfortable parts while expecting perfect execution—and then benefiting from the outcome.

Also, zooming out a bit—you’re about two years into this. NRE usually lasts around 6–24 months. Since the previous connections didn’t last long-term, there may not have been NRE with specific people. But could some of that NRE energy have been around the idea of non-monogamy, trying something new, exploring—and now you’re both running into what it actually feels like in practice longer term, without the shiny new sparkle?

Sometimes the agreements that feel safe at the beginning don’t hold up once things get real. They work “on paper,” but not "out in the field"—or they get outgrown and need updating. It might be time to revisit expectations and create agreements that reflect how things actually play out at this stage, not just what felt safe at the start of exploring. Kind of like bike training wheels—useful in the beginning, but eventually they need to come off and the learning moves on to the next stage.

It might be uncomfortable, but it could be worth asking her directly:

“Did you agree to this setup because it was exciting at first, but now realize this setup puts too much of the workload on you? Is that why this happened? Was it like a mini rebellion against ill-fitting agreements?

We haven't really talked about how initial agreements are playing out in reality, or if they are still fair to you. We changed how we vet because guys were trying to play 'impress the husband.' But maybe I need to come help vet, and any guys who do that, just took themselves out of the running. We could prioritize a fairer workload for you, rather than us trying to kinda help guys pass the screening.”

You might also consider doing regular check-ins on agreements—not constantly, but periodically (every few months or so) to see if they still fit over time. The RADAR check-in framework from Multiamory is one example of how to structure those conversations:
https://www.multiamory.com/radar

Might look at NVC materials by Marshall Rosenberg. Honesty is great, but the delivery matters too. If things tend to come across as “brutally honest,” it might be worth looking at ways to keep the honesty while being more considerate and less brutal to each other.

I happen to like the one called Living Nonviolent Communication.

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hello MrA,

It sounds like your wife got really carried away with this new guy, he got carried away too, I don't think she intended to break your agreed-upon rules, it's just, you know how powerful temptation can be, I am not excusing her, I am just offering some perspective on it. True, she should have contacted you about it before anything beyond kissing happened, that was her bad but as I said, people do get caught up in the moment sometimes. I think you should try to forgive her, and you and she should have a heart-to-heart about possible changes to the rules, and how you both should handle it if this should happen again in the future. For now I'll just say this new guy was "too good of a match," if that makes sense. Also I don't know if he knew of the rules?

Just some thoughts,
Kevin T.