advice please

[missamac]

Hello,
One of my best friends advised that I post my situation here in hopes of my getting some sound advise from those experienced in this lifestyle.

My partner and I have been together for 7 years and have 2 children. We have had a monogamous relationship the entire time. We have both been going through a time of growth and development over the last couple years and our relationship has been rather rocky. In fact I left last Winter for 2 months only to return because it was what we both wanted. However, He just does not seem to be here anymore.
I am almost 7 years older than he is. I am 36 and he is just getting ready to turn 30. Even though communication has never been our strong suit, he just acts completely uninterested! He tells me that I lost myself, which is true being that we had 2 kids back to back, but he tells me that Im boring and I just don't hold his interest anymore. But he doesnt want to "break up".
Last weekend, he had plans for us to attend a weekend long festival that I backed out of last minute. He ended up having a super spiritual experience and connected with another girl that he formed a 12 hour emotional attachment with. Although he did try kissing her, no physical contact was made.
We fought over this for the next 3 days. He would tell me that he wants to be with me and were working things out all while messaging her on Facebook. I caught him making plans to meet up with her to give her her hoody back that his friend still had in his car from the festival. When I asked him if he intended on seeing her, he casually responded "well yeah, because she lives close by and we like the same things..." Of course I was like no way, because its a recipe for disaster for 2 people in a monogamous relationship.
He told me he was going to call things off with her and went to stay at a mutual friends house for the night. But instead of doing that, he more so professed his feelings to her and when she did not reciprocate he played it off cool. Then was suddenly all about making things work with me and not at all interested in her anymore.
We had a great couple days together but during a conversation we were having about her confessed that when we talk about her, he misses her. So that put us right back to where we were. Now he is saying that he doesn't want to be committed to me, and that he wants to be alone, but we are still living together and raising our kids together. Still sleeping in the same bed and having sex. He still kisses me before he leaves for work. Still tells me that me and the kids are where his heart is but that he needs to be what he needs to be, which is free... When I ask him if he's cutting me out of his life completely, he says no but when I ask if were still going to share, spend time, and experience things together, he tells me to stop planning ahead. He says that we need to do our own thing right now and if we come back together, we come back together.
I can be very pushy and smothering. Its something I need to work on. He tells me that when I do those things, it makes him want to run for the hills. He will still tell me that he loves me, wants to marry me, can't picture his life without me, etc... But is kind of leaving this relationship in a state of limbo. I am a fairly open minded individual and would love to hear feedback from those that are as well. I do not think that I can participate in an open relationship (which he also says he does not want). Seeing him with another woman might not do good things for me. Im just really confused and unsure what is going on here.

 

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you struggle. I don't think this is about Open relationships or poly. I think this is a dude treating you poorly.

It sounds like he's been breaking agreements in your mono relationship when he was looking to kiss/start an affair with the festival gal. Just that didn't go anywhere because the woman wasn't interested. I don't think the festival woman is the problem anyway. His behavior is.

Here's what pops out at me:

• he tells me that I'm boring and I just don't hold his interest anymore.
• he doesn't want to be committed to me, and that he wants to be alone
• He says that we need to do our own thing right now and if we come back together, we come back together.

If that is what he wants, he could break up with you properly and none of this nambypamby.

You could take what he says at face value even if it hurts: He is not interested here any more.

Then say NO to these things if he keeps wanting to share them because it is no longer appropriate:

• we are still living together still sleeping in the same bed
• having sex
• kissing before leaving for work

If you are broken up, behave like it. Stop sharing those kinds of intimacies.

Focus on creating clarity in how to live apart and still be good co-parents instead.

If you have to live together until finances allows one of you to move or both move to smaller/more affordable spaces, then try to make different spaces in the home while saving for that.

When I ask him if he's cutting me out of his life completely, he says no but when I ask if were still going to share, spend time, and experience things together, he tells me to stop planning ahead.

So basically you ask for clarity and he will not give it. Stonewalling.

He doesn't want to date/treat you properly. But he also won't break up properly either because...why? He wants to keep you around for a maid he sometimes has sex with?

I suggest you take his advice. Do you OWN planning. Take him at face value -- he's told you he is not interested in you any more and he doesn't want to be in a relationship any more.

So stop looking to him to set the tone, the direction, and the pace of things in YORU life. Do not expect him to do "shared planning" on anything but child care related things. He's no longer a partner. You take the reigns yourself for just YOU.

Figure out what YOU need in this separation time and what keeps things mentally healthy for you. Figure out what YOU want from your relationship, and assess if he makes the cut or not with his behaviors.

If you think there's a chance for reconciling, ID problem areas, who owns it, and have a separation for X months for people to work on themselves and their areas. Then reassess. If still a mess, let it go for lack of follow through.

But if it's best to just plain break up now? Accept it and don't linger or drag it out. That would not be to you benefit. Just prolongs healing.

I suspect you already know if you are (being treated well and how you want to be treated) or (being treated poorly) over there.

He will still tell me that he loves me, wants to marry me, can't picture his life without me, etc...

Right after telling you that you are boring and he's not interested? What kind of business is that?

I could be wrong. But my guess?

I think he wants to date other people while keeping you around for a back up plan or to keep enjoying services you provide. Not date you properly and treat you well. Just you are there for HIS benefit when he feels like it. Like you take a broom out of the closet when you want one, but ignore it the rest of the time. Just that he's not going to come right out and say it plain like that because that sounds user-y and few people would jump at that offer.

He's going to say pretty things to keep you "on the string" and in a state of confusion because that way you keep sticking around hoping. And if you stick around hoping? He gets to enjoy what you provide.

In your shoes? I would make my own plans to disentangle myself from him and have a separate living situation. From there I could gain some clarity and not have the "sweet nothings" he SAYS sometimes clouding the view from how he BEHAVES.

Talk is cheap. Actions speak louder. At least to me. I have no interest in feeding a black hole my time, energy, or attention. One sided relationships that just take and take but give very little back.

I am very sorry you deal in this because you deserve to be treated WELL. But if he's playing mind games -- just walk away. You don't have to be up for that. Say "No, thank you. Not a good enough offer for me."

You left in Winter for reasons. Are those reasons still holding true? If so, leave and stay gone this time. Don't get sucked back in.

Galagirl

 

[missamac]

I love that you rewrote your first comment! lol Thank you for replying! He CAN treat me very well. He is sweet and kind and polite and respectful to the higher degree. I agree that what he is doing NOW is not vibeable. I think that he believes that we are in different places of understanding and he is right. My evolution has been a much slower process than his and I think that in order for us to co exist well, we have to have the same understandings. We are a very compatible couple. I am Gemini and he Libra. My life path number is an 11 and he a 1. It works.
We talked just a bit ago about some details to this thing were doing as far as sex with other partners goes and he says he's not ready for that. I asked if he had hopeful plans for the future and he says yes, that right now we need time to grow and work on ourselves and do us for awhile and that that should fix things. I am on that page for the most part but in my mind, we should be growing together and even if were taking a break to work on ourselves for the benefit of the relationship, new relationships and sex with others should not be a priority or important or an option...
I stay home with our kids. I work odd jobs just to bring in a little money every once in awhile and he still is continuing to support us financially. In fact, just put me as beneficiary on his 401k...
Im just so confused.

 

[missamac]

PS. Reasons I left in December are no longer valid

 

[GalaGirl]

However, He just does not seem to be here anymore.

You seem to say the main problem is that he's not here. He's checked out of the relationship, but won't actually do a proper break up. So you are left in limbo. To solve the limbo, I think you could take charge and end it yourself.

He tells you that you are boring, just don't hold his interest anymore, he doesn't want to be committed to you, and that he wants to be alone. Trying to have an Open relationship neither one really seems to want just to avoid a break up is not the best way to go here. I'm not sure what the "things" are to fix. If he's just no longer interested, he's just no longer interested.

If he USED to treat you well in the past? That doesn't matter much if TODAY he's treating you poorly and giving all kinds of mixed messages.

I am on that page for the most part but in my mind, we should be growing together and even if were taking a break to work on ourselves for the benefit of the relationship, new relationships and sex with others should not be a priority or important or an option...

It sounds like you are trying to negotiate a separation agreement there. If so?

• Sounds like you are willing to have a separation where you work on the Things without dating other people while separated. That's how you are willing to do it.
  
• Sounds like he wants a Separation where he works on the Things, but ALSO date other people. That is how he is willing to do it.
  
• Conclusion: You do not agree on the terms of the Separation. A separation will not work here.

You could move on to a plain break up then. Why drag it out and postpone healing? I suggest you talk to a neutral counselor for help on how to navigate a break up with children in the mix so it is as quick and calm as possible for all people.

Or if you still want to try a separation agreement, have a neutral counselor help plan it out so all parties are heard and are accountable to the separation agreement.
So hopefully you get the clarity you need and there are no more mixed messages.

Galagirl

 

[missamac]

Because we have so much invested and I am still interested in him. I still feel the bond and am attracted to him. I also worry about the boys and them coming from a broken home.

 

[GalaGirl]

That sounds a little bit like sunk cost fallacy a to me.

(One person being interested and one person not being interested) is not (two people being interested in each other.) I think you know that.

Families come in all shapes, sizes, and types. Having divorced parents is not the end of the world for children. In some cases, it is better for the kids to have divorced co-parents that get along than to live in a house walking on eggshells with fighting married parents or "silent but grrrr" married parents or married parents "just going through the motions."

I get that this is hard and it hurts.

You may want to secure an individual counselor to help support you through all this. You are going to feel a whole mess of things.

I truly am sorry you are dealing with this. Could deal with it head on though and sort your stuff out.

GL!
Galagirl

 

[missamac]

So, according to the conversation I had with him last night, he agrees not to date other people right now... His hope for the future is that we can work on our stuff and happily be together. When I added that I didn't want to put more negativity or conflict into this by dating or sleeping with other people he agreed. I made a point that if we are both on the same page about getting back together in the future, then we shouldn't be putting ourselves out there RIGHT NOW chancing falling in love with someone else, otherwise it defeats the purpose of our goal. He agreed.
We had a good time last night together. We search for new music together and listened to it while we talked and just WERE... Its these moments that give me the hope. I know I have to start paying close attention to his behaviors because you right that they speak the loudest. I do need to start not relying on him for decision making and plan making. I need to go out on my own and do things without him. I just don't want to lose sight of what the agreed goal is.

 

[SchrodingersCat]

Your kids are already living in a broken home. They have parents with a broken relationship. Divorce is the result of broken homes, not the cause.

What kids see their parents do, they think is normal. Do you want your kids to think it's normal to be in relationships where one person isn't interested in the other, and both are really only sticking around because the other offers something material? Do you want them to grow up pining after people who aren't interested in them and just use them for their services?

Parents like to believe their kids are oblivious, that they don't notice the distance and detachment between their parents. They do. My parents should have split up years before they did, and it was so stressful all the time being in a house where it was clear they weren't happy together. They didn't figure it out until I literally screamed at them that they should get a divorce.

 

[GalaGirl]

His hope for the future is that we can work on our stuff and happily be together

What does that mean? He changed his mind?

• He now finds you interesting (instead of of boring)
• He now wants commitment (instead of wanting zero commitment)
• He wants to do things together now (where before he wanted to be alone)
• He wants to plan things together as a couple/be a couple (where before he told you not to be making any plans together/not be a couple)

IME, people don't usually go from one thing to the other just like that in the span of a few days.

I know I have to start paying close attention to his behaviors because you right that they speak the loudest.

Yup. Because his words go all over the place and seem to contradict each other.

You are going to have to go by his actions and see if he follows through on his word or he's just saying whatever in the moment.

Tread carefully.

We had a good time last night together. We search for new music together and listened to it while we talked and just WERE... Its these moments that give me the hope.

I am glad you had a nice time.

I just don't want to lose sight of what the agreed goal is.

In your shoes I would ALSO keep in mind that "lack of fighting" doesn't automatically equal "harmony." It just means "not fighting right now."

I think you could watch his behaviors over a longer period of time to see if he's being consistent and actually working toward the shared goal of "Work it out and be together" or not. And if he meets YOUR standards for how you want a partner to be treating you or not. Later on he might want to get back together but you might decide you don't want to because his behaviors still don't meet your personal standards. Don't lose sight of your personal standards for how you want to be treated.

I still would encourage you to speak to a counselor so YOU are getting extra support in all this.

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hi missamac,

It seems to me that you do not want to break up with your partner no matter what, so, I will try to suggest other approaches to this situation.

I think that your partner wants to have polyamorous relationships. He is agreeing to monogamy right now strictly to hold his relationship with you together. You may want to figure out how you can get polyamory to fit into your life. He will probably bring it up again.

He says you are "boring." Ask him what he means by that. Find out what you can do to improve your relationship with him.

If you can see a marriage counselor, please do so. You guys have a lot of stuff to work on.

Regards,
Kevin T.

 

[missamac]

Thank you for replying! Its nice to hear things from a mans prospective. He says he does not want to have a polyamorous or an open relationship. He says that I am too controlling (I have tendencies) and he doesn't like it. We live a lifestyle that is already nonconventional. We seek higher power and enlightenment and universal understanding. Part of my healing process right now is letting go of those attachments (control, anxiety, mainly anxiety... but also letting go in and of itself. Amongst other things.) As I said before, my evolution has been a much slower process than his.
He told me today that I took him for granted and stopped trying to impress him. Which ok, but Ive been raising 2 kids that were born back to back for the last 5 years. I am limited on resources that help keep the kids if we ever want to do anything. Not an excuse but valid reason for my homeyness. However lately, I have been much more lively and getting back into myself and he has noticed but I haven't seen much change in him. He says he wants to make sure the changes are real, I guess, before allowing himself to come back around.
I did a very rotten thing 2 weeks ago by not taking his wants/needs into consideration when he so badly wanted to go to that festival. I blew it off like I did not care. He had a life changing experience there spiritually and resents me for not being there with him. Again, not an excuse, but a valid blow to our relationship.
We had discussed counseling before and had both agreed to seek it out but over last couple weeks, that idea has gone down the drain. Again, I am all for it but he is not ready at his time.
I think that a separation is in order here but when I go to discuss the terms of the separation, he gets contradictive. He tells me I can do whatever I want whenever I want but got upset 2 nights ago when I left the house to meet a friend that just so happens to be a guy for an energy and crystal sesh... Why get upset if were apart?

 

[IndieSolo]

Oh please. He could have a spiritual epiphany while sitting on the toilet - would he resent you for not being there at that moment, too? He just seems to want to make you wrong for his own feelings that aren't so comfortable for him to experience. And you seem to sit shotgun on the same ride, blaming yourself, calling yourself controlling, etc. Stop that. His internal conflicts are his own and not your fault.

I also notice that you keep saying how YOU have been raising your two children, so I have to wonder where is he in the child-raising department. Does he leave it all to you? And just acts like a living paycheck who demands a good time when he gets home? That is a very immature idea of what married life is. If that's what he's doing, well then, no wonder he finds you boring. But that is on him! If he expects you to have all the adult responsibilities, then of course some seemingly free-spirited chick who's having fun at this feel-good festival is going to seem a lot more interesting than his partner who is mothering both him and the kids.

You need to stop taking on so much blame and guilt and responsibility for everything, and he needs to grow up and man up.

 

[GalaGirl]

TLTR

Too many mixed messages. If you want stability and off this roller coaster? I think that the only way you will get any is for YOU to create it. YOU take charge and get on with what you need.

• I suggest you see an individual counselor for support.
  
• Then make a marriage counseling appointment and tell him when it is.
  
  • YES. He attends and shows you he is serious about working it out, and he is keeping his agreements. You can believe in his Word. Then you both do the work assigned to you by the counselor.
    
  • NO. He chooses not to attend. He is not serious about working things out. You cannot believe in his Word on that. Then take him at face value.
    • He said he wanted to be on his own and no more commitment to you. Move some "for now" money to an account for you. Make a separation agreement appointment with lawyer/mediator and in it address income flow and balance it out with what you already took out. Get the separation agreement in WRITING.
    • When he's ready to play ball, he knows where you are. You can work to reconcile.
    • Or the trial separation expires and there's been no effort, or both don't want to reconcile. Then you move on to divorce.

That's what I would do in your shoes. Create your own stability and create your own clarity in a wonky situation.

Otherwise it sounds like more and more endless roller coaster. You being given mixed messages, agreements that don't actually come to pass, and just being taken along for a ride. That's a poor way to treat people.

I think you could make you own plans and get on with your separated life so you can be free of all this roller coaster. When he's serious about working it out and can keep his Word, he can look you up. When the trial separation deadline hits -- you can determine if you want to reconcile or if you move on to divorce.

LONG VERSION

He says he does not want to have a polyamorous or an open relationship

So what DOES he want? To end things? To work it out? Open for him but not for you?

He's all over the place. Even if he doesn't know what the heck he wants, YOU could decide you want stability and no more of this roller coaster.

You could make a marriage counseling appointment and tell him when it is and that you expect him to show up or talk to you about a date that works better for him and you will adjust it. But right now it is X o'clock on X date.

If he will not honor his agreement to attend counseling? Let natural consequences follow. You could separate and give you freedom FROM this up and down, and give him freedom TO sort himself out on his own. Trial separation for X mos and at the end see if you both want to reconcile or if it is best to divorce.

He says that I am too controlling (I have tendencies) and he doesn't like it.

What behavior do you do that is controlling behavior to him?

He told me today that I took him for granted and stopped trying to impress him. Which ok, but I've been raising 2 kids that were born back to back for the last 5 years. I am limited on resources that help keep the kids if we ever want to do anything.

What's he doing to impress you? And that he does not take you for granted? Is he not doing his fair share in child raising?

It almost sounds like he resents the kids taking up your time and energy when he helped make the kids. And like he wants you dancing attendance on him 100% and anything less is you "neglecting" him.

I did a very rotten thing 2 weeks ago by not taking his wants/needs into consideration when he so badly wanted to go to that festival. I blew it off like I did not care.

He badly wanted to go. He went. What's he mad about? What is rotten? What need was not met?

He had a life changing experience there spiritually and resents me for not being there with him.

You have to be present for everything? He cannot do things on his own?

We had discussed counseling before and had both agreed to seek it out but over last couple weeks, that idea has gone down the drain. Again, I am all for it but he is not ready at his time.

So he makes agreements in the moment he does not intend to keep?

When WILL he be ready? Or is never because a neutral third party would ask him to step it up and he doesn't want to? Or a neutral third party might ask you to stop taking responsibility for everything in the relationship and he prefers you carry most of the load?

I think that a separation is in order here but when I go to discuss the terms of the separation, he gets contradictive. He tells me I can do whatever I want whenever I want but got upset 2 nights ago when I left the house to meet a friend that just so happens to be a guy for an energy and crystal sesh... Why get upset if we're apart?

Exactly. Why get upset? He told you do whatever, you did whatever. Too many mixed messages.

Could get on with your life and expect him to sort himself out. Including dealing with his own upset.

Try the marriage counseling. If he will not go?

If you have things in joint? You may want to take out half the money to live on and put it in an account only in your name before you get on with the separation appointment. Start separating things there first without telling him.

Any calm, reasonable person would see it is necessary -- for each of you to have separate funds in separate accounts during a trial separation. And it prevents hotheads form pulling revenge-y stunts. Because sometimes people do that as a tactic -- close accounts and "freeze" the spouse out so they have no money to see lawyers or even live on. Don't let your soft feelings for him blind you to that possibility. You have kids to look out for as well as yourself.

You could get on with making your suggested draft to bring to the appointment with lawyer/mediator. You could make a draft to take with you online. Here is another. Or you could Google.

He is free to prepare and bring his own draft. If he doesn't, he choose not to take the opportunity then. That is his choice. But you are still getting on with the show. None of this stonewalling/foot dragging stuff. It sounds tiresome.

If he feels X about it later, let it be his job to manage his emotions. He is free to seek a counselor for his own support.

Get to where you are living apart so your home can be calmer.

I could be wrong in my impression... but right now it seems he won't give you clarity, and seems to be using you for emotional dumping ground/emotional punching bag of some sort. And some of this stuff just doesn't sound like it's your responsibility to me. He seems to have unrealistic expectations of you. I think there's too many mind games here. That's not a pleasant home life.

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hi missamac,

If your partner is not willing to see a counselor with you, I suggest you go see a counselor by yourself. Let me be clear, I don't think you're at fault, quite the contrary. The counseling is so that you can get some help and support on how to cope with this bad situation for you.

Just wanted to lift that out, but I also agree with GalaGirl's whole post above.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[missamac]

Thanks guys. We are not married. Just domestic partners and have always had separate funds. He pays all of the household bills and what little money I make goes toward personal credit cards and things for kids.
I have always carried most if not all of the responsibilities of the household and kids. In fact he often tells me I act like his mom. I have 6.5 years on him. I am 36 and he's just getting ready to turn 30. He was 23 when we met and I had 2 children then from another relationship. I feel like he so much more present at 23 than he is today at 30.
I will look into counseling for myself as well as throw out a couples counseling date and see if he responds. Im a little hesitant to do that because he keeps telling me that the more I "push" him in this, the more he wants to run away. I may wait a week or so to schedule the couples meeting just to to give him some time. I plan on taking a step back and giving him some space.
We talked again last night about terms but again was unable to get anywhere other than a schedule for the kids. He gets monday nights to do what he wants during the week and I get wednesday and we alternate weekends. But he would not give me a separation deadline agreement. In fact in the heat of it all said that he was thinking about it permanently because I won't back off. I guess thats where I can be a little controlling. Making demands from him when he either isn't ready or unable to give answers.
I also have had issues with trust in the past. I would get upset if he would go out without me and put limitations on what he was allowed to do such as staying out all night long to the next morning. I also would get uncomfortable when he would have certain friends over for awhile or if he would be talking to someone via text, I would get anxious. Honestly, I just don't like things getting out of my control period and when they do, I start to freak out. However I have been really focusing on these things and trying to become more aware and controlling these feelings.
Last night when I came home he didn't really say much to me. But he rolled over at some point and wrapped his arms around me tightly. Even held my hand. I promised myself that we are not having sex anymore since sex is very emotional thing for me and causes attachment. Every time we've done it since all this, I just wake up confused and feel emotionally drained. So Im not going to give in anymore for the sake of myself.
My friend said something to me last night, That if he can't love me here (she pointed to her head), then I can't love him there (she pointed to her body). And that makes sense.
I definitely see things in him that i do not want for myself in a loving relationship. He can speak harshly to me and even tho he says he's just kidding it still just sounds ugly and the energy it puts out kinda hits me hard. Like I can FEEL the negativity around it and its just gross. For example, we were looking at a gemstone book the other night and he was reading about how the Moonstone is associated with Gemini and proceeded to shoe me a pic of the Moonstone. I told him that I already knew what a Moonstone was and he snapped out "YOU DONT KNOW WHAT THE FUCK A MOONSTONE IS!!!" And even tho he was just being "sarcastic" in his tone because I obviously know about Moonstones, the vibe that came out with it was just... Gross. Hit me hard. When I asked him why he chooses to sound and speak so harsh, he says "Why are you so butthurt, I was just kidding?" To me it didn't matter if he was kidding. And I wasn't even offended as I was making a mental note of the way he sounded and the energy around the tone in his voice.
Anyway, I thank you all for being there for me and giving such amazing advice. Im an intelligent woman and I know all of these things already, its just having that emotional attachment to him and the sentiment of him being the father of my children is what makes it so hard for me. Its heartbreaking when someone makes a promise to always be there and to never give up and then they go back on their word.

 

[GalaGirl]

Im a little hesitant to do that because he keeps telling me that the more I "push" him in this, the more he wants to run away. I may wait a week or so to schedule the couples meeting just to to give him some time. I plan on taking a step back and giving him some space.

Waiting a week is reasonable wait and still keeps things moving along.

You are not "pushing" him into anything. It is unreasonable to drop a bomb like "I don't find you interesting, I don't want commitment, I want to be alone" while sniffing around looking or a cheating partner while living with you. And then expect you to just hang around indefinitely as a back up plan. Sheesh!

He also told you to plan things on your own and stop asking him. Well, obtaining counseling for just you and making an appointment for the relationship to discuss reconciliation IS you getting on with your life and holding up your end of the stick.

He can show up or not. Then you know what his actual behaviors and intentions are. He doesn't show? You know he's not serious about reconciliation and you don't have to hold up that stick any more either. You toss the idea of reconciliation aside.

Or he can go ahead and "run away" because he doesn't like participating here. That too also shows you what his behavior is and what his intentions are.

We talked again last night about terms but again was unable to get anywhere other than a schedule for the kids. He gets monday nights to do what he wants during the week and I get wednesday and we alternate weekends. But he would not give me a separation deadline agreement. In fact in the heat of it all said that he was thinking about it permanently because I won't back off. I guess thats where I can be a little controlling. Making demands from him when he either isn't ready or unable to give answers.

He doesn't have to have all the answers. He could simply agree these types of topics need to be seen to in a separation agreement -- finances, time on your own, time with kids, a deadline because it cannot be "trial separation" forever. If he's thinking it is better a permanent break up, ok. Then let's move on to talking about that then and not bother with the trial separation.

Either way? You could seek legal advice for you, and what documents, if any are best for your case. WRITTEN ones. Not oral.

But if you aren't married, and he isn't the dad, he doesn't actually have custody for anyone, you already have separate incomes and banking, and he's basically is saying he doesn't really want to be there, and he is making life hell for you? Give him the boot. Choose to be free of all these shenanigans.

You don't have to live your life "on pause" just because he cannot make up his mind. If he cannot be with you, lovingly, respectfully, with a joyous yes? Could call it a "working NO" and you just move on to disbanding.

He can continue to do his waffling on his own over THERE where you don't have to be hearing it any more.

My friend said something to me last night, That if he can't love me here (she pointed to her head), then I can't love him there (she pointed to her body). And that makes sense.

Yup. I hope you listen to your friend. Because you are not a machine that dispenses sex whenever he wants some. Can you sleep in different beds until this gets resolved?

I definitely see things in him that i do not want for myself in a loving relationship.

Then you could consider ending the relationship because it is not a loving one. Be ok with being on your own. You deserve good treatment.

He can speak harshly to me and even tho he says he's just kidding it still just sounds ugly and the energy it puts out kinda hits me hard. For example, we were looking at a gemstone book the other night and he was reading about how the Moonstone is associated with Gemini and proceeded to shoe me a pic of the Moonstone. I told him that I already knew what a Moonstone was and he snapped out "YOU DONT KNOW WHAT THE FUCK A MOONSTONE IS!!!" And even tho he was just being "sarcastic" in his tone because I obviously know about Moonstones, the vibe that came out with it was just... Gross. Hit me hard. When I asked him why he chooses to sound and speak so harsh, he says "Why are you so butthurt, I was just kidding?"

That is mean behavior. I am appalled. You do not deserve that.

He could have said "Ok. I just wanted you to see this particular picture. I think it is interesting." There's no need to start cussing at you.

Seems like he really does use you as a verbal punching bag and then flips it around on you when you hold him accountable and tell him that his poor behavior is not acceptable to you.

Instead of apologizing and not doing it again? He makes it be like you are "too sensitive, have no sense of humor." Disowns his poor behavior rather than owning it and taking responsibility.

I don't know if any of this applies, but maybe you want to take a look at the PDF list in this article in case there's any other poor behaviors going on over there.

http://speakoutloud.net/intimate-partner-abuse/male-perpetrators-domestic-violence/mens-tactics

Anyway, I thank you all for being there for me and giving such amazing advice. Im an intelligent woman and I know all of these things already, its just having that emotional attachment to him and the sentiment of him being the father of my children is what makes it so hard for me.

Understandable. It is a great disappointment to find that someone you love treats you less than lovingly.

Its heartbreaking when someone makes a promise to always be there and to never give up and then they go back on their word.

It is heartbreaking.

I am sorry you deal in this. Nobody deserves to be yelled at like that when it's just supposed to be relaxing time looking at books.
You have worth, dignity, and value. You deserve to be treated well.

For all that he seeks "spiritual enlightenment" he's not especially great at practicing basic kindness and basic good manners.

I hope you can get yourself out of this mess so your home life is calmer.

His words are not trustworthy. He doesn't keep agreements, he gives mixed messages, and he's verbally abusive.

I hope you move on with what you need to do to straighten up YOUR life at least, even if it means not sharing a life together.

I hope you decide he doesn't make the cut for what you want in a loving partner and end it.

I hope you choose to have a super strict attitude if he wants a shot at reconciliation. Like "show me the money" with some actual ACTIONS first. He attends counseling, he stops with this nasty language, etc. Like "pay up front." You do not take "credit" -- like sweet sounding (and empty) promises for a better tomorrow. Talk is cheap with him and his promises are flimsy. No consistent actions TODAY? No dice for reconciliation.

You loving him is not enough.

• You must love your own self too and not be around people that drain you or treat you bad.
  
• He must show he loves and respects you back.

Can't be a verbally abusive, one sided relationship sucking you dry.

Galagirl

 

[Tinwen]

Just one more point. You keep saying how spiritual he is and how fast he's been going on his journey. You make it sound like he's some kind of a better person then you are because he's so 'spiritual'.

I suggest you drop this idea.

To me? A spiritual journey is indeed supposed to help you be a whole person, which means:
- acquiring personal integrity, resolving inner conflicts
- feeling the full range of your emotions but not being dragged along by them in your behaviour
- living a healthy life and caring for yourself deeply
- being kind, loving and compassionate and building healthy relationships, caring for others deeply
- keeping your boundaries and resolving conflicts with others while being deeply respectful to their boundaries
- understand your limitations
- being humble and grateful and appreciating of the good things that are given to you in life
- refrain from judgement
- cultivating your emotions in order to live up to your highest values, but also to be spontaneous safely without causing harm
- being present
- expanding your awareness and consciousness to help you acquire the things listed above
- reaching out to god/reality/your own inner guru/whatever as a form of a deep search for Truth ()
Any form of playing around with stones, chacras, energy, tantric connection etc. feel profound but are merely fun and games without carrying them over into your everyday life to be indeed more open, loving etc. Even deep meditative experiences are... nearly worthless if only in isolation from other facets of life.

For what I've read about how your husband is treating you, I see him being
- proud and condescending; boasting with his spiritual experience...what the fuck?
- lacking integrity, experiencing conflict inside and outside
- passive aggressive and dismissive, harbouring resentment
- outright aggressive in belittling you
- judgy and stepping over your boundaries
- being absent
- not appreciative at all of you and your role as a mother

I know none of us is perfect, but how is all this in line with his and yours jouney? Where is his so called progress? What exactly makes his journey more valuable then yours?

If he is no longer interested in monogamy you, he should dearly thank you for what you have given each other and move on. Not belittle you, not take his anger out on you, accept personal responsibility for the things he wants and the ones he chooses.

 

[IndieSolo]

Missmac, when I read posts like ours, I am always utterly flabbergasted that anyone puts up with shit like this from their partners. Why do you allow yourself to be treated with such disregard and disrespect?

You have children who are learning about relationships by observing you. And, though you may think your interactions with him are private, children are like little sponges and pick up everything. Is this dynamic between you and your bf really what you want them to believe about how a woman should be treated?

If I were you, I'd start planning how to take care of yourself and your bills without him, get a cell phone he doesn't know about, and either find a place to stay with the kids or kick him out and change the locks on the door.