almost feel bad for my fiance's girlfriend
- Thread starter SammyKijak
- Start date
The OP isn't having actual sex with the 16 year old, but maybe only because the 16 year old is straight... although it's a grey area, since she admits to being in the room with the 18 and 16 yr olds as they "make out."
I admit I do not know what constitutes "having sex" with a minor in New Jersey. Full on male/female intercourse? Oral sex with the penis penetrating some orifice? What about lesbian sex?
Would an adult watching a teen couple having sex (PiV or oral) be construed as sexual abuse of a minor? Imagine if the genders were switched. A 23 year old man in the room watching a teen M/F or F/F couple getting it on? Would have the book thrown at him, I'd imagine.
If the OP was a bisexual male, and the 18 yr old was also a bi male, and the girl was in a cuddle pile with both of them, wouldn't she be seen as a victim of some kind of sexual assault, since she is under the age of consent, as per the 23 year old?
I admit I do not know what constitutes "having sex" with a minor in New Jersey. Full on male/female intercourse? Oral sex with the penis penetrating some orifice? What about lesbian sex?
Would an adult watching a teen couple having sex (PiV or oral) be construed as sexual abuse of a minor? Imagine if the genders were switched. A 23 year old man in the room watching a teen M/F or F/F couple getting it on? Would have the book thrown at him, I'd imagine.
If the OP was a bisexual male, and the 18 yr old was also a bi male, and the girl was in a cuddle pile with both of them, wouldn't she be seen as a victim of some kind of sexual assault, since she is under the age of consent, as per the 23 year old?
MsChristy
New member
Actually the legal age someone can consent to sex and how old their partner can be varies by state. For example, in my state a 16 year old can have sex, but only if the person is within 2 years of her age, so 18 would technically be legal, but 19 would not.
Inyourendo
New member
Me too. Completely inappropriate. I would really queation a grown woman wanting to hang out with a child. I certainly would press charges on an adult enabling and providing space for my child to have sex
alibabe_muse
Member
My daughter turns 16 in a few days. First off she wouldn't be okay hanging out with a 23 year old female or male unless said person is a close friend or extended family member. secondly she is so far from wanting to have sex but does want a boyfriend her age. From the OP the second I read her metamour is 16 I about pooped my pants. This is a f'd up dynamic with multiple personalities (if its true).
OP get out of your box of dependence on 18 yo boy & stop being a victim to your mental issues. Once you actually do grow up, you might be able to realize how unhealthy this dynamic is for all involved.
OP get out of your box of dependence on 18 yo boy & stop being a victim to your mental issues. Once you actually do grow up, you might be able to realize how unhealthy this dynamic is for all involved.
Hey, we are not all prudes here. Personally, I was 16 when I made out with my 24 year old bf, and 17 when we first had intercourse and I lost my virginity. My parents didn't seem to mind, much less think of calling the cops! They liked the guy, and thought his maturity was a plus.
To each their own. The OP has loved this boy for 3 years and waited to have sex until he was 18. I am just not sure about how cool it is having a 16 year old virgin in a poly tangle/triad.
To each their own. The OP has loved this boy for 3 years and waited to have sex until he was 18. I am just not sure about how cool it is having a 16 year old virgin in a poly tangle/triad.
AnnabelMore
Active member
WOW, I'm so sorry, Sammy, about all the intense negativity you're getting here. It doesn't make any sense to me.
So the gf is 16 and her bf is 18. How on earth is that something to freak out over? A few months ago, she could easily have been 15 and he 17, and would anyone have been talking of calling the cops then? I don't think so. Two years is a perfectly reasonable age gap at that time of life. And five years, between the bf and the OP, is by no means super duper crazy either, considering that they're in no rush to tie the knot. Maybe it'll work out between them and maybe it won't, but there's nothing *wrong* happening there, in terms of their ages, they're both young adults. With that age gap, he could just be entering college and she just leaving it. Yeah, it's a difference between them, yeah they need to be aware of that, but no, it's not inherently bad.
As for the age difference between the gf and the OP, this isn't a triad, why do people keep using that word? Don't we know the difference here? It's a vee, they're not dating. I agree that seven years would be a large and worrying age difference at this age if they were dating or screwing or anything more than talking, but it's not like that. She's actually made it clear that she would refuse to do that, even if the interest were there, because of the girl's age. Sooooo... seriously, I cannot figure out what the huge problem is here.
Metamours can be best friends, they can be acquaintances, or they can be nothing at all to each other. There's nothing wrong with a teenager having a friend in her early 20's. Yes, even if that friend is dating her older bf, imho. Maybe I'm basing this on the fact that I tended to date older people and have older friends when I was in my mid to late teens, and was poly for that matter, I don't know. To some of the other posters, I say, ok, YOUR 16 year old wouldn't be comfortable in this situation. Well, this is not about your 16 year old. 16 year olds vary greatly, shockingly enough. There are some bright red lines, but none of them are being crossed here based on what we've been told.
Sammy should be careful not to overestimate her metamour's maturity, but I don't see any indication that she's doing that or acting in any ways that would be inherently harmful to her. I'm not even gonna address the issue of the mental age of the personality who's doing the hanging out, since it's clear that people can't handle that.
I'm not surprised that people are freaking out over your multiples, Sammy, though I think it's a shame. Yes, it's a relatively unusual situation. Yes, if you haven't already, you should probably seek counseling to make sure that you're healthy and that this is how you want to be. But is it NECESSARILY a problem? No. Does it necessarily have anything at all to do with what this thread was meant to be about? Nope.
The only cases of multiples that we ever hear about are extremely sensationalized, much as with transsexuality a few decades ago. We hear about the extreme cases. People with multiples who aren't having crazy, newsworthy problems, who may in fact even be happy with their state and not looking to change, fly under the radar. One of my roommates (well, four of my roommates, technically, just in one body) is in that situation. I've known him/them for a decade now, and his life is not particularly more or less complicated or drama-ful than anyone else's, believe it or not.
Anyway, I just wanted to take a minute to post this and let you know that at least one person here doesn't think you're a bad person because of 1) your age, or 2) the fact that you're multiples.
As for your actual question, I'm gonna echo some others and say that if she's happy it's all good, and that you shouldn't push it. That said, I think it's awesome that you're encouraging your bf to spend more time with her. Best of luck.
So the gf is 16 and her bf is 18. How on earth is that something to freak out over? A few months ago, she could easily have been 15 and he 17, and would anyone have been talking of calling the cops then? I don't think so. Two years is a perfectly reasonable age gap at that time of life. And five years, between the bf and the OP, is by no means super duper crazy either, considering that they're in no rush to tie the knot. Maybe it'll work out between them and maybe it won't, but there's nothing *wrong* happening there, in terms of their ages, they're both young adults. With that age gap, he could just be entering college and she just leaving it. Yeah, it's a difference between them, yeah they need to be aware of that, but no, it's not inherently bad.
As for the age difference between the gf and the OP, this isn't a triad, why do people keep using that word? Don't we know the difference here? It's a vee, they're not dating. I agree that seven years would be a large and worrying age difference at this age if they were dating or screwing or anything more than talking, but it's not like that. She's actually made it clear that she would refuse to do that, even if the interest were there, because of the girl's age. Sooooo... seriously, I cannot figure out what the huge problem is here.
Metamours can be best friends, they can be acquaintances, or they can be nothing at all to each other. There's nothing wrong with a teenager having a friend in her early 20's. Yes, even if that friend is dating her older bf, imho. Maybe I'm basing this on the fact that I tended to date older people and have older friends when I was in my mid to late teens, and was poly for that matter, I don't know. To some of the other posters, I say, ok, YOUR 16 year old wouldn't be comfortable in this situation. Well, this is not about your 16 year old. 16 year olds vary greatly, shockingly enough. There are some bright red lines, but none of them are being crossed here based on what we've been told.
Sammy should be careful not to overestimate her metamour's maturity, but I don't see any indication that she's doing that or acting in any ways that would be inherently harmful to her. I'm not even gonna address the issue of the mental age of the personality who's doing the hanging out, since it's clear that people can't handle that.
I'm not surprised that people are freaking out over your multiples, Sammy, though I think it's a shame. Yes, it's a relatively unusual situation. Yes, if you haven't already, you should probably seek counseling to make sure that you're healthy and that this is how you want to be. But is it NECESSARILY a problem? No. Does it necessarily have anything at all to do with what this thread was meant to be about? Nope.
The only cases of multiples that we ever hear about are extremely sensationalized, much as with transsexuality a few decades ago. We hear about the extreme cases. People with multiples who aren't having crazy, newsworthy problems, who may in fact even be happy with their state and not looking to change, fly under the radar. One of my roommates (well, four of my roommates, technically, just in one body) is in that situation. I've known him/them for a decade now, and his life is not particularly more or less complicated or drama-ful than anyone else's, believe it or not.
Anyway, I just wanted to take a minute to post this and let you know that at least one person here doesn't think you're a bad person because of 1) your age, or 2) the fact that you're multiples.
As for your actual question, I'm gonna echo some others and say that if she's happy it's all good, and that you shouldn't push it. That said, I think it's awesome that you're encouraging your bf to spend more time with her. Best of luck.
It isn't about mental illness. I don't think OP is a bad person because of 1) OP's age, or 2) the fact that OP is multiples.
I think OP could examine OP's behavior because OP is feeling some guilt.
OP could figure out what behavior is causing this guilt and change it so OP can feel something else that feels better to the OP.
How is it being in a "healthy polyship" when one of the participants doesn't understand what they are participating in?
That's the problem I see.
If she participating in things she does not understand just because she's got a crush on the hinge? Because a 16 yr old may not have the sense to stop herself?
OP and the BF hinge person could withdraw their willingness to polyshipping with her. She may want to play this way, hinge BF may want to play this way, but OP doesn't have to be willing to play this way.
Avoiding addressing this and letting it ride... well that could come at a cost of the girl acting out at them later or her parents because their kid got hurt/is being hurt. Or the BF passing the buck.
At this time, I do not see how CONTINUING to polyship with a teen that doesn't seem to want to be there or understands polyshipping is healthy for all parties involved. At this time, the OP is suffering some guilt dings with this way of going.
I think this is the behavior OP could examine and change to see if it alleviates their feeling guilt -- OP's willingness to continue participating with this person in OP's polyship network in this way.
Galagirl
I think OP could examine OP's behavior because OP is feeling some guilt.
OP could figure out what behavior is causing this guilt and change it so OP can feel something else that feels better to the OP.
How is it being in a "healthy polyship" when one of the participants doesn't understand what they are participating in?
That's the problem I see.
- She is 16 yrs old and does not understand polyshipping.
- She could not agree to participate in things she does not understand. (She is not owning this, but at 16 may not have the self awareness or emotional maturity to figure that out yet.)
- BF could discourage her from participating in things that she does not understand at this time and withdraw his own willingness to continue in this polyship. He doesn't do this. (What's his reason for not doing this?)
- OP could discourage her from participating in things that she does not understand at this time and withdraw OP's own willingness to continue in this polyship. OP does not do this. (What's OP's reason for not doing this?)
- She does not want to talk about schedules or even acknowledge the OP and the hinge are together. (This seems like "ostrich" behavior. This does not seem like behavior of "I am glad to participate in this polyship. I am willing to acknowledge my polyship people exist. I am willing do calendar work. We don't have to be best friends, but there is minimal calendar work to be doing when sharing time with hinge.")
If she participating in things she does not understand just because she's got a crush on the hinge? Because a 16 yr old may not have the sense to stop herself?
OP and the BF hinge person could withdraw their willingness to polyshipping with her. She may want to play this way, hinge BF may want to play this way, but OP doesn't have to be willing to play this way.
- What is the reason for not withdrawing OP's willingness to continue this way?
- what is the reason for continuing with a teen polypartner that doesn't seem to want to be here?
Avoiding addressing this and letting it ride... well that could come at a cost of the girl acting out at them later or her parents because their kid got hurt/is being hurt. Or the BF passing the buck.
At this time, I do not see how CONTINUING to polyship with a teen that doesn't seem to want to be there or understands polyshipping is healthy for all parties involved. At this time, the OP is suffering some guilt dings with this way of going.
I think this is the behavior OP could examine and change to see if it alleviates their feeling guilt -- OP's willingness to continue participating with this person in OP's polyship network in this way.
Galagirl
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Dagferi
Well-known member
I have no problem with an 18 yo dating a 16 yo.
I have no problem with a 23 yo dating a 18yo.
I have an issue with a 16 yo girl being manipulated into a relationship that frankly doesn't seem healthy . I am sorry but at 16 they just don't have their identity yet. They are still trying to find out who they are and who they want to be. Plus what does a 23 yo have in common with a 16 yo. Does the 16 yo know the true age of the 23 yo or does she believe that the 23 yo is 14
I have no problem with a 23 yo dating a 18yo.
I have an issue with a 16 yo girl being manipulated into a relationship that frankly doesn't seem healthy . I am sorry but at 16 they just don't have their identity yet. They are still trying to find out who they are and who they want to be. Plus what does a 23 yo have in common with a 16 yo. Does the 16 yo know the true age of the 23 yo or does she believe that the 23 yo is 14
AnnabelMore
Active member
I'm seeing a ton of inferences that don't seem supported by the very limited info we have (could always ask the OP to clarify rather than assuming). We know that the gf doesn't understand poly very well and is uncomfortable hearing details about her partners other relationship. Sounds exactly like 90% of the brand-new-to-poly people we meet on this board. Another option for the OP instead of just discouraging her metamour from participating in poly would be pointing her towards relevant resources to learn from and share.
Do we think it's inherently unhealthy for young people to be introduced to alternative relationship styles? If so, then yes, the OP's bf (much more so than the OP, who is not in fact dating this girl!) is doing something wrong. If we DON'T think that... and I don't... then this could still be a problematic situation, but just assuming that it is without seeking more info seems way premature and says to me that other factors are influencing the advice.
Edited to add:
"doesn't seem to want to be there"
"being manipulated"
This is what I'm talking about, for the record. These are some pretty heavy conclusions to draw from "she doesn't know much about poly yet and doesn't want to hear details about her partner's other partnership" which, again, I would say describes MANY new-to-poly peeps we get here. I feel like we waste a lot of words on this site making assumptions about people's situations, which comes from a place of judgment, rather than asking for clarification, which comes more from a place of compassion.
Do we think it's inherently unhealthy for young people to be introduced to alternative relationship styles? If so, then yes, the OP's bf (much more so than the OP, who is not in fact dating this girl!) is doing something wrong. If we DON'T think that... and I don't... then this could still be a problematic situation, but just assuming that it is without seeking more info seems way premature and says to me that other factors are influencing the advice.
Edited to add:
"doesn't seem to want to be there"
"being manipulated"
This is what I'm talking about, for the record. These are some pretty heavy conclusions to draw from "she doesn't know much about poly yet and doesn't want to hear details about her partner's other partnership" which, again, I would say describes MANY new-to-poly peeps we get here. I feel like we waste a lot of words on this site making assumptions about people's situations, which comes from a place of judgment, rather than asking for clarification, which comes more from a place of compassion.
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"Doesn't seem to want to be there" is my impression. I am willing for OP to correct me.
You are right, AnnabelMore. I could ask more directly.
OP, could you be willing to share
I think checking out resources BEFORE agreeing to enter into polyship together would be the best way.
To provide the girl with info NOW to stop her from continuing to polyship while underinformed could be done at this point in time.
In order to discourage continuing in polyship without ever stopping to catch up the information.
Could call a time out to let her get info and reassess everyone's willingness and ability to carry on now that she's informed. Not as good as having done that in the first place, but it could be done now. Then they could decide to continue with everyone informed, willing, and able to continue. Or not.
No. They could be introduced to many things in appropriate ways.
But since all the info the OP gives at this time is that the girl does not understand polyshipping and doesn't seem glad to be there at this time?
And not "She doesn't understand it, but is willing to learn along the way..."
So the OP could stop feeling guilty about letting this continue while knowing the girl is not fully understanding or fully informed? The OP could take the initiative and call a time out for reassessment:
Galagirl
You are right, AnnabelMore. I could ask more directly.
OP, could you be willing to share
- Where you are at on this at this point in time?
- Does your metamour want to be in a polyship with all 3 of you in a "V" (FMF) shape polyship? She is both willing AND able?
- Or does she prefer to be with just the BF?
- Has she ever stated her preferences for relationshipping?
I think checking out resources BEFORE agreeing to enter into polyship together would be the best way.
To provide the girl with info NOW to stop her from continuing to polyship while underinformed could be done at this point in time.
In order to discourage continuing in polyship without ever stopping to catch up the information.
Could call a time out to let her get info and reassess everyone's willingness and ability to carry on now that she's informed. Not as good as having done that in the first place, but it could be done now. Then they could decide to continue with everyone informed, willing, and able to continue. Or not.
No. They could be introduced to many things in appropriate ways.
But since all the info the OP gives at this time is that the girl does not understand polyshipping and doesn't seem glad to be there at this time?
And not "She doesn't understand it, but is willing to learn along the way..."
So the OP could stop feeling guilty about letting this continue while knowing the girl is not fully understanding or fully informed? The OP could take the initiative and call a time out for reassessment:
- To give the girl a chance to catch up on info and raise her understanding before continuing
- Or to give the girl, the hinge, or OP herself the chance to step off the polyship if they no longer want to be here after taking a reassessment.
- Or to reassess and reaffirm all players desire to be here in order to reassure the OP so she can let the guilt go, and continue in polyship.
Galagirl
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AnnabelMore
Active member
So, teen girls just shouldn't date period? That's not gonna happen. Or they can date but they specifically shouldn't be involved in poly because it's more likely to be unhealthy, is that what you're saying? I didn't think we thought that here. Or is it ok for them to try poly, but they even more specifically shouldn't be involved with a guy who is age appropriate for them to date if he is also seeing someone who would be age inappropriate for them to date, because... actually, I have no idea what the rationale is supposed to be here. Because she's making the effort to try to be a good metamour and make room for her partner's other relationship and not monopolize his time? Because she's trying to initiate good communication?
I am also confused at the strong reactions against a 16 year old girl dating an 18 year old. So a senior can't ever take a sophomore to the prom?
It doesn't make sense to say that a 16 year old can never consent. It denies that she has agency. Do you think there should be laws that forbid all teenagers from having sex until they are 18?
I am grateful that when I was in high school, my mother made sure I had access to condoms and that I knew I could go to her if I needed/wanted birth control. She did not insist that I "wasn't ready" for sex. She respected that I had my own agency and made sure I had information to make my own choices. (Her support was never tested in actuality, though, because I was too shy to talk to boys until I was well out of high school. But I know that her attitude made me more comfortable with myself and my sexuality in general).
Sammy, I do not think that the age difference between your fiance and his girlfriend is significant enough to be alarming. However, there is a significant age difference between you and your metamour. It may not matter much in 5 years, when you are 28 and she is 21, but right now there is a big gap in maturity/development/life experience between a 23 year old and a 16 year old.
It doesn't mean that there's anything "bad" going on here. It just means that you have to be extra-cautious with her feelings and boundaries. (Like, if she doesn't want to cuddle, don't pressure her to. If she's uncomfortable talking to you or spending time with you, don't take it personally.) It sounds like you care a lot about her feelings and her relationship with your fiance, which is good. But if she's fine with seeing her boyfriend less than he sees you, that's okay and you don't need to feel that it's a problem. Maybe she likes having more space and time to herself.
I do think that you can't expect someone who is still in high school to be as comfortable and excited by polyamory as you are. I had my first poly relationship when I was 21 (and a virgin myself), and I definitely was not ready for the communication and self-awareness that multiple relationships require--even though I very much liked the idea. Especially because sex was new to me, it was very hard to get used to the idea that my boyfriend was so sexual with someone else too. I wasn't comfortable being around my metamour, even though I was supportive of her relationship with my boyfriend.
My boyfriend (when I was 21) was 28. His other partner was 37. I felt very intimidated by the age difference between me and my metamour. She was obviously much more sexually experienced, life experienced, etc. At the time, I had never really interacted with people in their 30s as friends yet. So there was a lot of new stuff for me to navigate.
In my case, my metamour was very insensitive about the age difference. She laughed at me when she learned I was virgin, and she would make dismissive comments about my lack of life experience and "sheltered upbringing." The situation turned out to be quite toxic, and within a few months, my boyfriend's behavior became toxic too. So the problem wasn't the age differences--lots of other stuff going on there.
Anyway...I think my point, Sammy, is that you do have to consider the age gap with your metamour. Your original question mentioned her age only as an afterthought, but it's very important. Even if you use your 14-your-old personality to interact with her...you still have more life experience than a 14 year old.
It doesn't make sense to say that a 16 year old can never consent. It denies that she has agency. Do you think there should be laws that forbid all teenagers from having sex until they are 18?
I am grateful that when I was in high school, my mother made sure I had access to condoms and that I knew I could go to her if I needed/wanted birth control. She did not insist that I "wasn't ready" for sex. She respected that I had my own agency and made sure I had information to make my own choices. (Her support was never tested in actuality, though, because I was too shy to talk to boys until I was well out of high school. But I know that her attitude made me more comfortable with myself and my sexuality in general).
Sammy, I do not think that the age difference between your fiance and his girlfriend is significant enough to be alarming. However, there is a significant age difference between you and your metamour. It may not matter much in 5 years, when you are 28 and she is 21, but right now there is a big gap in maturity/development/life experience between a 23 year old and a 16 year old.
It doesn't mean that there's anything "bad" going on here. It just means that you have to be extra-cautious with her feelings and boundaries. (Like, if she doesn't want to cuddle, don't pressure her to. If she's uncomfortable talking to you or spending time with you, don't take it personally.) It sounds like you care a lot about her feelings and her relationship with your fiance, which is good. But if she's fine with seeing her boyfriend less than he sees you, that's okay and you don't need to feel that it's a problem. Maybe she likes having more space and time to herself.
I do think that you can't expect someone who is still in high school to be as comfortable and excited by polyamory as you are. I had my first poly relationship when I was 21 (and a virgin myself), and I definitely was not ready for the communication and self-awareness that multiple relationships require--even though I very much liked the idea. Especially because sex was new to me, it was very hard to get used to the idea that my boyfriend was so sexual with someone else too. I wasn't comfortable being around my metamour, even though I was supportive of her relationship with my boyfriend.
My boyfriend (when I was 21) was 28. His other partner was 37. I felt very intimidated by the age difference between me and my metamour. She was obviously much more sexually experienced, life experienced, etc. At the time, I had never really interacted with people in their 30s as friends yet. So there was a lot of new stuff for me to navigate.
In my case, my metamour was very insensitive about the age difference. She laughed at me when she learned I was virgin, and she would make dismissive comments about my lack of life experience and "sheltered upbringing." The situation turned out to be quite toxic, and within a few months, my boyfriend's behavior became toxic too. So the problem wasn't the age differences--lots of other stuff going on there.
Anyway...I think my point, Sammy, is that you do have to consider the age gap with your metamour. Your original question mentioned her age only as an afterthought, but it's very important. Even if you use your 14-your-old personality to interact with her...you still have more life experience than a 14 year old.
Vixtoria
New member
For the record, don't care that an 18 year old is dating a 16 year old. The concern is someone using one of their alters as an excuse to cuddle and hang out with a 16 year old when they are 23. Issues with someone who has ALREADY had issues with the law because that 18 year old was 15 when she was 20 and she wanted to date him. Parents have already called lawyers regarding it. This is now a pattern. Of getting involved with people who are too young, mentally AND legally.
It might be a security issue. While dealing with her own mental illness it's easier and more comfortable, safer, to deal with younger people than people her own age. Something to work out in therapy. Which is where she should be, and I hope she is. DID or DD is serious, and something that needs constant work at. It's also NOT AN EXCUSE. Which is what it is being used as. "So what if I hang out with a 16 year old who is uncomfortable with all of this? I'm only 14 at the time! So what if she can't possibly understand or be capable of DEALING with such a situation, at 14 I'm even less capable than she is!"
Not cool. Not cool at all. Admittedly, it is a HUGE pet peeve of mine for people to use mental illness as an excuse, instead of a reason that they have to work harder. Kind of one of those, hey I do the work, you can too, stop acting like you are incapable because of this.
It might be a security issue. While dealing with her own mental illness it's easier and more comfortable, safer, to deal with younger people than people her own age. Something to work out in therapy. Which is where she should be, and I hope she is. DID or DD is serious, and something that needs constant work at. It's also NOT AN EXCUSE. Which is what it is being used as. "So what if I hang out with a 16 year old who is uncomfortable with all of this? I'm only 14 at the time! So what if she can't possibly understand or be capable of DEALING with such a situation, at 14 I'm even less capable than she is!"
Not cool. Not cool at all. Admittedly, it is a HUGE pet peeve of mine for people to use mental illness as an excuse, instead of a reason that they have to work harder. Kind of one of those, hey I do the work, you can too, stop acting like you are incapable because of this.