Am I doing polyamory wrong?

[purpledmess]

Hi everyone,

I am new to polyamory and looking for advice. My husband and I have been together for 11 years and have been monogamous together up until this past July. I told him I had developed a sexual attraction to a coworker and that I wanted to explore it. My husband's reply right off the bat was "Go for it."

Since then we've both had many dates and many many conversations about polyamory and what it means for our relationship.

Recently, I connected with a guy I went to high school with. We hit it off immediately. I slept with him on the first date and have slept with him twice since then. My husband told me that he does not like our relationship together because he feels that is only based on sex. I tried to explain that it's more than that, but he always has a counterpoint to anything I say. For instance, my husband tells me that since my new lover and I "have not defined our relationship" that it's just a booty call.

My new lover is familiar with polyamory, but he wouldn't necessarily call himself polyamorous. He is a dad of two, in a coparenting relationship with his ex. He works full time and is busy. I really enjoy our time together, especially in the bedroom. With our schedules, this means that some dates will only be sexual in nature. And obviously, we've only seen each other a few times.

So, my husband insists that this relationship is not really poly. That my new lover is just cool and content with the sexual aspect, but nothing else. That since we only went on one proper 'date'...to dinner...that means that he is not interested in an actual relationship, just sex. That since we have haven't defined our relationship yet, that it's just swinging. And my husband is explicit that just swinging isn't okay with him.

So, I guess my question is...am I doing polyamory wrong? Is there something wrong with enjoying sexual pleasure with a partner and letting the new relationship take shape by itself? I hesitate to pressure my new lover into putting a label on what we are as a couple because of a few different reasons. One, I don't feel the need to define our relationship right now...we have only been on three dates. Two, he has children from a previous relationship and I don't want to put pressure on him about labelling us as a 'couple' when he has gone through this bad coupling situation in the past. Three, I just don't see any issue with enjoying our time together and letting the definitions come later.

Like I said, my husband and I are new to this, and I am just looking for some genuine feedback. Since July, this is the first guy I've seen that I've had repeat dates with. And suddenly, it's a problem with my husband. He says that he feels like a secondary consideration, even though I have always asked him for his consent for these dates.

My husband tells me that I want the non-monogamy without the ethical part. Am I confused? What is actually going on here?

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you struggle. I don't know what to tell you.

You sound like you are participating in the new relationship how you want to be. And New Dude is ok with it.

So what's hubby's problem? Each relationship you pursue is not gonna unfold the same and how hubby's other relationships unfold. It's not a contest or competition. You are different people.

Shoot, each relationship you share with person A or person B won't unfold the same. Like the coworker dude and this new from HS dude -- I imagine those are not exactly the same.

Recently, I connected with a guy I went to high school with.

Is that why hubby's bent out of shape? You know this guy longer than hubby?

We hit it off immediately. I slept with him on the first date and have slept with him twice since then.

Is that the problem hubby is having? He didn't think it would turn sexual so fast so he struggles?

Since July, this is the first guy I've seen that I've had repeat dates with. And suddenly, it's a problem with my husband

Is that the problem hubby is having? It is the first repeat date person so it's more "real" than the other ones, hence the anxiety?

That since we have haven't defined our relationship yet, that it's just swinging.

Do you and New Dude attending swinging parties together? Where is the swinging part happening?

And how would hubby know if you have defined it yet or not? Are you oversharing about your other relationship to hubby?

What "counts" as a "proper date" to hubby anyway? How "fast" does it have to be labeled something like "my BF" to hubby to "count" as poly? And why's it up to hubby what happens in your other dyad or how fast it goes? He's not dating the New Dude. You are.

He says that he feels like a secondary consideration, even though I have always asked him for his consent for these dates.

Why does he think he's "a secondary consideration?" It bothers him to watch you exercise your autonomy? Is he very couple-centric and "we" thinking, so watching you be just you along in this other relationship is wigging him out? He thought it would be like a group project or something?

Is the problem that hubby wants to micromanage your other relationship and you don't want him to? You want the other relationship to unfold at its own speed and not according to hubby's schedule? So you want hubby to back off and let you handle it yourself?

What's hubby afraid of? That this new guy is taking advantage of you sexually or something? Or he's afraid that you are having fun and he's not used to this side of you?

Why are you asking him for consent for each date? Not like coordinating calendar, but asking for consent for each single date? Why is your time not yours to manage? Are you Open or not?

Is there something wrong with enjoying sexual pleasure with a partner and letting the new relationship take shape by itself?

No. Nothing wrong with that. Each dyad unfolds how it does.

I hesitate to pressure my new lover into putting a label on what we are as a couple because of a few different reasons. One, I don't feel the need to define our relationship right now...we have only been on three dates.

And that is you + New Dude's business, not hubby's. If you are ok with it being "casual lovers" and don't need to call it "steady BF" or something? That's your business.

Two, he has children from a previous relationship and I don't want to put pressure on him about labelling us as a 'couple' when he has gone through this bad coupling situation in the past. Three, I just don't see any issue with enjoying our time together and letting the definitions come later.

Also you + New Dude's business how it unfolds and not hubby's.

Is that the problem? Hubby is so used to sharing everything with you, that he finds it weird to have this area of your life now that he's not a part of or wanted in?



I guess you could ask your husband what's upsetting him about you wanting to let the relationship unfold at it's own pace. Is it bugging husband that you have a new lover this quickly? And it caught him off guard? He thought there would be more dating first before it became sexual?

So now he's sputtering whatever and reaching for straws but maybe the bottom line is it took X dates before you and husband got sexual and in this situation it's already sexual with New Dude after 1 date and that threw hubby for a loop?

I think the only one who can answer how your husband thinks or feels is your husband. So talk to him.

But you know what? It's ok for you to go "Thank you for your concern. But I prefer to handle my other relationships myself."

It's ok for him to deal with his own emotional management.

Galagirl

 

[purpledmess]

Galagirl, thank you for your insight on so many points. One re-occurring issue since this whole poly conversation started is that I am primarily interested in sex in outside relationships while he is more interested in emotional connections. Do note that he has also engaged in just casual sex as well. Also, my husband and I hooked up at a bar 11 years ago. I took him home with me one night, and we made magic happen and never looked back. So it's even more perplexing sometimes why he would be surprised that I am seeking a physical connection first. After all, we are proof that physical can turn emotional and can be worthwhile and long-term and immensely gratifying.

I am frustrated because I feel as though I give him total freedom and autonomy when it comes to his dates...who he chooses, what he wants to do with them, etc. And I don't get the same in return. I do get micromanaged, and not just for this new guy. I feel like he doesn't trust me to make good decisions when it comes to dating.

And no, no swinging parties lol. Just the two of us getting together in private.

You bring up a great point: my husband does fear that new guy is taking advantage of me somehow. And I'm struggling how to explain to him that that's just not the case.

I keep asking for 'consent' for each date because he's obviously uncomfortable with the whole situation. Each time he reassures me that it's fine to meet with him. But then afterwards, it's clearly not fine with him.

I know a lot of this just comes from his insecurities. He is 47 and 13 years older than me. I feel like he is worried that he is not performing good enough in the bedroom. How do I explain to him that he is the best lover I've ever had and I never want to replace him? But also that I just want more. And different.

Also, speaking of differences, I do want to add that while me and new dude went to high school together, we had absolutely no history together. He is black, I am white, and I grew up in a racist house. That relationship would never have happened 17 years ago.

So how can I reassure my husband without having to jump through all the hoops he's set up for me? I feel like I just can't get him to see my side of things no matter how much we talk about it.

 

[GalaGirl]

I keep asking for 'consent' for each date because he's obviously uncomfortable with the whole situation. Each time he reassures me that it's fine to meet with him. But then afterwards, it's clearly not fine with him.

So have you asked him if he wants to STOP? Before either of you gets to deep with a new partner -- just NOT do open/poly stuff any more?

Because you are getting mixed messages. Like "Sure go ahead" and then "I'm not really ok with this." Which is it?

IF you do continue... how about NOT telling him when you share sex with the New Dude? New Dude is already your lover. Husband doesn't have to know details of how many encounters. It's not just your info you know. Belongs to New Dude too. And New Dude might not want you blabbing shared sex details between you and New Dude with husband and other people. That safer sex practices are being used is fair -- people need to know for their own health.

But that you did it today 5 times up in a tree...c'mon. Every dyad needs a certain amount of privacy.

I cannot imagine that Hubby wants you telling New Dude everything you and hubby get up to.

I am frustrated because I feel as though I give him total freedom and autonomy when it comes to his dates...who he chooses, what he wants to do with them, etc. And I don't get the same in return. I do get micromanaged, and not just for this new guy. I feel like he doesn't trust me to make good decisions when it comes to dating.

And when you tell husband this what happens? That you give him total freedom and autonomy and would like same back. Is he not willing to do that?

When he tries to micromanage are YOU willing to say "No, thank you. I will not be doing that." and just let him deal with his own feelings about your answer?

Or is that the problem? You give him all this freedom and he doesn't actually want that because he takes it like you don't care about him any more? And couldn't care less what he's doing elsewhere?

You bring up a great point: my husband does fear that new guy is taking advantage of me somehow. And I'm struggling how to explain to him that that's just not the case.

WHY do you have to explain? Esp when talking goes nowhere? How about just stop talking and let husband manage his anxiety himself? You are not willing for husband to think whatever to himself? And in time SEE that nothing doom happened?

He is 47 and 13 years older than me. I feel like he is worried that he is not performing good enough in the bedroom. How do I explain to him that he is the best lover I've ever had and I never want to replace him? But also that I just want more. And different.

Have you actually asked him if all this hoopla is because he's worried he's not performing well in the bedroom?

Why guess and leap to reassure? That's doing an awful lot of "random" emotional labor.

Have you guys detangled enough before attempting poly?

https://medium.com/@PolyamorySchool/the-most-skipped-step-when-opening-a-relationship-f1f67abbbd49

How comfortable are you watching him be uncomfortable? The "old normal" is gone, and the "new normal" isn't here yet, and you both are going to see new sides of each other. He gets to watch you handle yourself dating. And you get to watch him. Some of it may not be comfortable.

But if he NEVER had to sit with uncomfortable feelings on his own before and learn to deal with them himself because you usually make his world a comfy bubble or help him do his processing or something? That may be part of the problem here.

So how can I reassure my husband without having to jump through all the hoops he's set up for me?

What is he asking you for reassurance on? I haven't read that yet.

And why are you jumping? You can't just say "No, thank you. I won't be doing that. That doesn't work for me. Is there another way to meet this need that works for both of us?" (Assuming it's a fair need and not crazy stuff.)

You don't HAVE to jump, you know.

I feel like I just can't get him to see my side of things no matter how much we talk about it.

So stop talking. Does he HAVE to see your side of things at this point in time? How about just agree to disagree?

He manages his stuff on his side of the V how he wants. He mostly wants new emotional connections.

You manage your stuff on your side of the V how you want. You mostly want new sex experiences.

They do not have to be the same.

Of if the bigger issue is that he changed his mind and doesn't want to do this any more? Talk that out before either one gets deeply involved with anyone else.

Galagirl

 

[FallenAngelina]

I feel like he is worried that he is not performing good enough in the bedroom.

new dude... is black, I am white

The flimsy nitpick about "that's not poly" and especially since your new relationship is primarily sexual in nature right now, I'm led to question whether something deeper underlies your husband's fear. Very few men would want to admit it now that everyone claims to not have one trace of racism in them, but this is still a powerful stereotype that lingers in the psyche of many. If you asked your husband whether race is a factor in his criticism of this relationship, he'd likely scoff at that preposterous inference, but the truth is that the fear is deeply rooted in the culture. I don't presume to have any solutions when it comes to this kind of embedded fear, but I do know that it can be helpful to just be aware of its power, especially in individuals who pride themselves on their inclusive values. This sexual fear can be much, much bigger and deeper than most men would be willing to admit. It would be just way too taboo and uncomfortable to let their minds even go there. It's a shadow element, to be sure.



"Although the shadow is an innate part of the human being, the vast majority of us are willfully blind regarding its existence. We hide our negative qualities, not only from others but from ourselves. To do this we often criticize and condemn others to ensure our focus does not fall on our own faults and destructive tendencies. We go through life with a false air of moral superiority and a belief that while others act immorally and destructively, we ourselves are wholly virtuous and always in the right."

 

[Vicki82]

*shrugs* even if it was a FWB type relationship, it's YOUR relationship. You get to decide what works for you.

If your husband isn't okay with relationships that are "primarily" sexual, how on earth would you decide this? People don't always catch feelings right away. I mean, what if you just like sex and have it right away with new prospects to see how it goes and then figure things out as you go along? It might start off as sex and turn into friendship or love. You certainly won't always know.

I agree with letting your husband do his own emotional labour. He needs to figure out what's bothering him and effectively communicate it to you. I wouldn't play into it by asking for consent for each date. What if he says no? Are you just going to stop seeing your partner? That's not treating your other partner very kindly, in my opinion.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello purpledmess,

First of all, there is nothing wrong with a booty call. There's nothing wrong with swinging. It's not "just" a booty call, it's not "just" swinging. Those things are just as substantial as is polyamory, at least that's my opinion. Your husband is trying to shame you for "not being poly." The bottom line is, any kind of nonmonogamy is fine as long as all the parties involved agree to it. And that may be more the problem here. For some reason, your husband is getting cold feet. Perhaps it's because you're having sex with this new ("high school") fellow? Is this the first guy (after your husband) with whom you've had sex? You say that since July, you've only been on more than one date with the new guy (the high school fellow). If you've had sex with other guys since July, that's sex on the first date and surely that's a booty call? Why doesn't your husband complain about that?

Polyamory is, a romantic relationship with more than one person, with the consent of all who are in the composite relationship. Notice I said "romantic." That means, emotional involvement. If you are emotionally involved with your high school guy, then what you are doing is polyamory, and there's nothing wrong with how you're doing it. Unless your husband does not consent to it! That might be a problem. If he doesn't consent to it, then it doesn't meet the definition of poly, but he probably hasn't even thought of that. As long as he is your husband, and you are not separated from him, his consent is a necessary part of the definition. If he doesn't consent, you have to choose between him and the new (high school) guy. Or at least, inform your husband that you'd like to stay married, but that you're going to keep seeing the high school guy regardless. Then it's up to your husband to make that choice.

FallenAngelina raised the question of race, and I am inclined to agree. Not that I *know* your husband's racist, but that he *might* be, at least on a subconscious level. It would go a long way toward explaining why he has a problem with *this* guy, when he hasn't had a problem with any of the guys previous. You might want to ask him to examine himself in the mirror, and see if there isn't just a trace of racism lurking there. He assumes that this guy is trying to take advantage of you. Is there a chance that he suspects black men in general of taking advantage of their women? or at least, of their white women? I don't suppose he would admit it to you, or even to himself, but if *you* think he might be racist, that might have an influence on whom you would choose if you were forced to choose.

I hope you can work things out.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[powerpuffgrl1969]

I think Kevin and Fallen Angelina *may* have a point about race being a factor here. However, there is no way for us to know, as we have really no evidence. It's a possibility, though.

No, you are not doing poly "wrong."

 

[FallenAngelina]

I think Kevin and Fallen Angelina *may* have a point about race being a factor here.

Yeah - my point is based on the assumption that race (I won't say always, but almost always) is a factor if for no other reason than race has such a heated history in the USA especially, but certainly in most countries that have any history of mixed races. I wouldn't go around accusing anyone of "being a racist," for that is an unhelpful accusation and pretty much anyone is going to recoil and get defensive hearing that charged word. My point is simply that black men are going to elicit a visceral response out of white men, especially when it comes to sharing "their women" sexually. Few of us want to look at this aspect of ourselves and the current conventional narrative is that every good person is well past this, but the truth is that when it comes to sexuality, especially, nobody has intellectual control over their gut reactions. I'm no expert at all in how we truly do get past the race issue in our countries, but I do know that race is still very much a factor for most of us, simply by virtue of being part of our culture - and that most of us will not feel even the remotest bit comfortable admitting that. So I would not recommend using the "racist" word at all. It's much too charged and accusatory and individually pointed. This kind of stereotyping, these gut reactions, are still part of our culture, our histories and our sexual narratives, no matter how individually evolved each of us might be. The topic is worth a discussion, at very least.

 

[vinsanity0]

While I agree that race may be a factor, at least subconsciously, the bigger problem is the husband's need to control his wife's relationships. I question whether or not what the husband's take on what is, or isn't poly really matters. So what if it's just a booty call or undefined. How is a poly person supposed to get to meaningful relationships if they don't date around? And what is a meaningful relationship anyways?

I have to believe the husband's objections are all based on his own insecurities.

 

[Magdlyn]

While I agree that race may be a factor, at least subconsciously, the bigger problem is the husband's need to control his wife's relationships. I question whether or not what the husband's take on what is, or isn't poly really matters. So what if it's just a booty call or undefined. How is a poly person supposed to get to meaningful relationships if they don't date around? And what is a meaningful relationship anyways?

I have to believe the husband's objections are all based on his own insecurities.

It's almost like he would like his wife to only have non-sexual dates UNTIL she and a certain dating partner "fall in love," (however he defines that), and then and only then, have sex.

How Victorian.

 

[MeeraReed]

I agree with what others have said...what bothers me the most about the husband's comments is that he thinks the "ethical" part of ethical non-monogamy somehow rules out casual sex.

In my experience, people who tend to claim that casual sex is inherently unethical are often trying to control women's sexuality and sexual freedom. (I occasionally hear this sentiment aimed at men who are dating around casually, but MUCH more rarely).

It's perfectly okay to not enjoy casual sex yourself or to have no interest in it...it's not okay to think that it's a flat-out unethical thing for ANYONE to do.

When I first joined this forum in 2010, there were a couple holier-than-thou type poly people who would insist that casual sex is not compatible with polyamory. It bothered me, but I couldn't articulate why. I had similar feelings as the OP and was stressing that I was doing poly wrong!

It took me a while to figure out that polyamory just means dating more than one person, whatever "dating" means to you. Some people are at a point where their "dating life" is that they're married, or they are only interested in serious relationships, or whatever. But no one else gets to define it for you.

Also, the OP isn't really having casual sex, she has what might be considered a casual lover or a non-committed boyfriend...in other words, DATING.

I don't think the husband is worried that she's engaging in risky sex, or that she's going to get hurt by the boyfriend...I don't know what the husband's issue is (most likely, insecurity), but he should stop claiming that his wife is "unethical" or "not poly" and actually say what's bothering him.

 

[polyamy]

First off, I think a lot of the previous responses contain some AWESOME advice.

Right off the bat this sounds like jealousy to me. Nothing you shared leads me to believe that you are being unethical or "doing poly wrong". If he really wants to embrace polyamory, he may have a hard time admitting or even identifying his own jealousy. He might have an easier time believing that you are doing something wrong, than accepting that he feels jealous or threatened. He might think it's not okay for him to feel jealous. But for most people it's unrealistic to expect to NEVER feel jealous even if it's out of character.

As you both embrace polyamory I think it's a good idea to embrace the idea that it's okay to be jealous but its not okay to restrict/control/blame people because of your jealousy. My advice is to talk until you identify and address any feelings of jealousy/fear that might exist. Give the jealous/fearful partner reassurance and compassion but do not nourish their fear by giving them more control. My advice for the jealous partner is to allow yourself to feel jealous/afraid but move forward by acting with courage and trusting your partner.

"...I have always asked him for his consent for these dates."

^Since you don't need his "consent" to go on a date, I'd advise against using the word consent. If you made an agreement where you have to ask each other for permission, call it what it is: permission.
On that note, permission-based relationship structures have questionable ethics because they compromise personal autonomy.
If you want to set a good precedence for a trusting and non-controlling relationship between autonomous adults who are free to make their own decisions about what they do with their own bodies on their own time, I advise against agreements involving permission. A good alternative is to make agreements about planning dates, notifying each other about dates, and checking in with each other.

My Advice, in other words, is to ask for support instead of permission.
Kids ask their parents for permission. Friends, lovers, and partners ask for support.