Am I splitting up my partners?

[tinymorningstar]

I don't know where to start but...

My two partners are married and me who was just recently added in... Kind of.
We started off as friends and I'd make sexual jokes or "flirt" as they saw it. They'd make sexual jokes with me, so I just did it back. However we started taking steps into becoming a throuple, we live a state apart so we travel between both homes when we can.

However when I try to make conversation about our relationship, where it's headed, if this is a game for them or if they're serious, they've both got different things to say. My one partner and I are on the Ace-spectrum and both autistic, so we both understand each other a lot better and I've also expressed I have a lot of sexual trauma so I'm not too heavy into sexual acts. I've expressed this very early on. We both have a mutual understanding of each other's feelings though it's sometimes hard to navigate due to us not being able to take subtle hints. My other partner on the other hand has said some hurtful things such as "I don't actually like them because I won't have sex" ... Which is not the case. I try to explain my infatuations but she doesn't take them seriously because I don't show it sexually therefore I feel like I'm invalid. She's also had very loud "private" conversations in other rooms with my other partner for me to over hear her say that "you're trying to replace me".


However she still cuddles me, kisses me and shows me affections and calls me "my love". I don't know what to do. I feel like I'm making the relationship between my partners worse. I love them both and I don't want them to fall apart because I'm the problem. No matter how many times I try to talk things out or understand I always get told "well I just feel like you two get along better" or "you're more attractive looking" (which fyi is not the case, she's very beautiful.) or "I don't think either of you like me" I don't know how to express my attraction more then with gift giving, affections, taking her on dates and expressing my thoughts/feelings, which is a bit hard for me but I try to do it more often for her. Am I not putting in enough effort? Or am I really just the problem? I've asked them so many times and I get such wishy-washy answers.

 

[LaminarFlow]

Welcome!

Triads are usually very difficult to manage. You have to tend to four relationships with three people.
I'm going to give you names, please change them to your liking.

TSM + Ace
Ace + Lady
Lady + TSM
Lady + TSM + Ace

You could scratch the triad and date them separately? Or you could just date Ace in a parallel setting and not date Lady at all. A triad is not a necessity for doing polyamory, and just date the one you are compatible with. It doesn't have to be a "package deal" kind of arrangement if it's not working out with Lady. You also can't fix Lady's insecurity, that's her own emotional management, all you can do is communicate to Ace and Lady your own wants and needs.

It could be that Lady and you are sexually incompatible, therefore not relationship compatible? That's okay you know.

You could all work on communicating your boundaries better and on being a better hinge, so that certain issues do not become TMI for the other partner. Like, "Hey, if you are going to discuss something important please let me go take a walk" or they could go. Or you could just put your headphones in because that's their thing. Have you said that to Lady and Ace? What do you want?

 

[tinymorningstar]

Welcome!

Triads are usually very difficult to manage. You have to tend to four relationships with three people.
I'm going to give you names, please change them to your liking.

TSM + Ace
Ace + Lady
Lady + TSM
Lady + TSM + Ace

You could scratch the triad and date them separately? Or you could just date Ace in a parallel setting and not date Lady at all. A triad is not a necessity for doing polyamory, and just date the one you are compatible with. It doesn't have to be a "package deal" kind of arrangement if it's not working out with Lady. You also can't fix Lady's insecurity, that's her own emotional management, all you can do is communicate to Ace and Lady your own wants and needs.

It could be that Lady and you are sexually incompatible, therefore not relationship compatible? That's okay you know.

You could all work on communicating your boundaries better and on being a better hinge, so that certain issues do not become TMI for the other partner. Like, "Hey, if you are going to discuss something important please let me go take a walk" or they could go. Or you could just put your headphones in because that's their thing. Have you said that to Lady and Ace? What do you want?

I'd like to date them both. I like them both equally. The other two also have expressed their wants to be in a triad. Lady even introduced me to her family a week ago and has been very open about me to her friends.

Very early on in our relationship she also expressed that she didn't want either of us to date if she wasn't involved. I let them both know that if one of them feels a certain way, like it's not working out I'd like to be told and either work through it or to end the relationship. But I'm starting to feel as if I'm being toyed with / lied to. Or Lady is just putting up me for the sake of her marriage. I have expressed this to her before she introduced me to her family and we had a long conversation, however she keeps having these loud arguments about me with our other partner while I'm either in the room or "privately" where can hear them. I told her I felt uncomfortable with these "private" arguments about me, that they exclude me from when I can clearly hear them or are there to witness/hear. But she said it's between her and her spouse... Though she's made it public with me.

 

[LaminarFlow]

Very early on in our relationship she also expressed that she didn't want either of us to date if she wasn't involved. I let them both know that if one of them feels a certain way, like it's not working out I'd like to be told and either work through it or to end the relationship. But I'm starting to feel as if I'm being toyed with / lied to.

Maybe they really want to do a triad, but are just not able to? It takes skill and effort to make a triad work. It's not for everyone. Have they had any experience with ENM/poly? Are you the first? How long has this been going on?

Or Lady is just putting up me for the sake of her marriage.

That is between Ace and Lady. You agreed to a happy and joyful yes to a triad with both, and not this. You can't be used as a band-aid to fix their marriage problems.

I told her I felt uncomfortable with these "private" arguments about me, that they exclude me from when I can clearly hear them or are there to witness/hear. But she said it's between her and her spouse... Though she's made it public with me.

This is not loving. Either be included in the conversation or address to you directly in private. You can ask another time and give them space to repair their issues if you want or just decide yourself to end it.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello tinymorningstar,

It sounds like you could use some professional counseling, and I don't know if your partners would be willing to go with you. Maybe you can find a poly-friendly therapist, I don't know if this link would be of help to you. I am inclined to say that you are not the problem here, rather you are the catalyst for shining a spotlight on the problems in their relationship that were there before they met you.

Just my take on it,
Kevin T.

 

[GalaGirl]

I do better with fake names so I'm going to call these people "Red" and "Blue." Happy to go with other names you pick if you like something else better.

So let me repeat what I understand so far in my own words. You correct me if I get it wrong, ok?

PEOPLE

• You, living in another state, on the ace spectrum and autistic. Experienced sexual trauma in the past and not into sexual acts.
• Blue, married to Red and living with them. On the ace spectrum and autistic.
• Red, married to Blue and living with them. Neurotypical. (?)

DYADS

You did not "join" their relationship. They have their own dyad. Just that more dyads formed.

• Red + Blue (still exists)
• You + Red (new)
• You + Blue (new)

BACKGROUND INFO

You want to know where these relationships are heading. If this is casual or serious or what.

Red says one thing and Blue says another.

(You + Blue) understand each there better but neither one does well with subtle hints. It seems Blue wants to date you.

Red has said some hurtful things about you to Blue that you overheard. You overheard Red tell Blue that...

• Red doesn't actually like you because you won't have sex
• Red does take you seriously
• Red invalidates you
• Red accuses Blue of trying to replace Red with you.

Red has also told you some things directly.

• Red is envious that (you and Blue) get along better than (you and Red) or (Red and Blue).
• Red is envious of your looks.
• Red does not think you like Red
• Red does not think Blue likes Red
• Red themselves may not like how Red behaves lately.

Red's actions don't match their words.

• Red will say mean things about you and still cuddle you, kiss you, show you affection and calls you "my love."
• So basically it's mixed messages from Red.
• You think Red is toying with you.

PROBLEMS OR CONCERNS

You feel responsible for how things are going in the (Red + Blue) dyad.

I think it would be happening ANYWAY with whoever their triad partner was. Just that it is you because you are the one there right now.

Poly has a way of shining a light on cracks already there.

I don't know how to express my attraction more then with gift giving, affections, taking her on dates and expressing my thoughts/feelings, which is a bit hard for me but I try to do it more often for her. Am I not putting in enough effort? Or am I really just the problem? I've asked them so many times and I get such wishy-washy answers.

I think you could STOP doing all this extra and just date how it comes naturally to you. It's not your job to be Red's "prop me up" person. Even if Red wants to be the center of attention like some kind of "Queen Bee" you don't have to do that.

If you are worried Red is going to blame you for breaking them up?

Could bow out early and don't date either one of them. It doesn't sound like you've been dating either one very long. Both are doing some not great behaviors to me.

SOMEONE has to be the first person(s) you poly date. It doesn't mean you have to stick with them forever. Like with any other kind of dating, some dates pan out and others do no.

Now that you tried a triad out, you might decide you prefer NOT to date in triads any more. Triads and quads are among the hardest models.

Now that you see where sexy flirting leads to? You might decide to leave it at flirting and NOT actually date the people you "joke flirt" with like that. Or just don't "joke flirt" any more. Only do it if you mean it and want to date the person.

I'd like to date them both. I like them both equally.

At the cost of your own well being though?

A different approach to natural triads would be to date one partner for a year. Get that initial poly V stable. Then see about dating the other person.

A triad is basically three poly V's stacked up together. It's ok to ease in rather than force an "instant" triad. Just because it's easy to imagine doesn't mean it is easy to do.

Were you unicorn hunted?

Unicorns-R-Us

The other two also have expressed their wants to be in a triad.

So? Why would it have to be with YOU? If everyone is free to poly date? They could form a triad with someone else instead - Orange or Yellow or whoever.

YOU get to decide what you are and are not up for. You don't have to go with whatever "original couple" wants. I really think you have to let go of this idea that you are "joining their relationship." You are not. You are creating your OWN dyads.

Very early on in our relationship she also expressed that she didn't want either of us to date if she wasn't involved.

So she just INSERTED herself in here? Or wanted a closed triad from the start? What does this mean?

Even monogamous people don't promise to "go steady" from date 1.

I let them both know that if one of them feels a certain way, like it's not working out I'd like to be told and either work through it or to end the relationship. But I'm starting to feel as if I'm being toyed with / lied to.

YOU can also end the relationships with both because you don't like how Red is toying with you/lying to you.

It doesn't sound like Blue says anything about it. And you don't like that either.

Or Lady is just putting up me for the sake of her marriage. I have expressed this to her before she introduced me to her family and we had a long conversation, however she keeps having these loud arguments about me with our other partner while I'm either in the room or "privately" where can hear them.

You don't have to enjoy this poor behavior in a dating partner.

I told her I felt uncomfortable with these "private" arguments about me, that they exclude me from when I can clearly hear them or are there to witness/hear. But she said it's between her and her spouse... Though she's made it public with me.

She is MAKING it your business if she does it with you in the room or does it when you are within earshot. If Blue doesn't say anything like "Stop. I rather discuss this when we are actually alone" then Blue isn't standing up for themselves or for you. Not great.

I think next time that happens you get to say "You sound like you need privacy so I'm going home."

And you cut your visit short and leave. You don't have to put up with crap visits / crap dates. What for?

You don't have to be a jerk about it, but neither do you have to put up with weird awkward stuff going on around you.

You can LEAVE. For the day, the week, or just permanently break up.

Your consent to participate in things or not belongs to YOU. So if things here are just too weird and yucky? You can bow out. Save yourself.

Galagirl

 

[Bobbi]

she keeps having these loud arguments about me with our other partner while I'm either in the room or "privately" where can hear them. I told her I felt uncomfortable with these "private" arguments about me, that they exclude me from when I can clearly hear them or are there to witness/hear. But she said it's between her and her spouse... Though she's made it public with me.

This is the problem, not you. Her feelings are hers to work out. You aren't the problem. The problem is that this happens around you or within earshot of you. You need to tell them that they need to find a private place to fight about you because it's not fair to you. If they have something to say to you then say it to you, otherwise you don't want to hear it.

You'd be fine in your relationships if you weren't hearing all of this, right? That's your clue that they are over sharing by being too loud around you. It's really not about you, it's about their relationship. You are the excuse they are using to not take responsibility for things that don't work in the relationship.

People don't leave happy, loving fulfilling relationships and another person doesn't change that. People will, however, find external things to blame it on so they don't have to look at themselves.

 

[tinymorningstar]

Update:

I ended up having a discussion with both partners. We agreed to split on good terms, as much as we can be on good terms. However, the wife has now started emotionally gaslighting me, in front of her own spouse. She's been "apologizing" saying, "sorry everything was my fault." Instead of facing the actual issues on hand.

The wife has been texting me or calling me saying, "Sorry, I'm a piece of shit," but not owning any behavioural problems and not giving a real apology, besides the self-hatred comments, to which I keep responding with, "This is not a real apology; you're just putting words into my mouth or putting yourself down." Which I only get responded with "That's not my fault, I have self-esteem issues". Which I truly understand, we all have our own set of self-esteem issues.

HOWEVER... The wife's spouse refuses to talk to me because they're hurt with the fact I broke things off with the two of them. The spouse has been really weird and awkward with me, including ignoring me when we're in settings with other friends. I've just pulled myself out of all of mutual friend groups and they've been talking negatively about me, causing drama with other friends.

They've said how I "forced" myself on their marriage and "wouldn't take no for an answer". I thought we were leaving on good terms, but I think they're mad at me for the fact I couldn't stay in a poly relationship with them. I have only a few friends who have heard me out and are shocked by both of the married couple. I feel like I've gone crazy at this point and started believing in some of the wife's lies about me. My few real friends have reassured me that she's spouting things that are completely out of character of me and never backed with any evidence, whereas I have a paper trail or texts, voice memos and hand written notes/letters of her weird manipulative behavior.

 

[Evie]

You just don't really know, until you do, if a couple is emotionally ready to manage polyamory. I'm sorry you're going through this nastiness in the aftermath.

 

[GalaGirl]

I ended up having a discussion with both partners. We agreed to split on good terms, as much as we can be on good terms.

Ok, so you are now broken up with both partners.

The wife has been texting me or calling me saying "sorry I'm a piece of shit" but not owning any behavioural problems and not giving a real apology besides the self hatred comments which I keep responding with "this is not a real apology, you're just putting words into my mouth or putting yourself down." Which I only get responded with "that's not my fault I have self esteem issues". Which I truly understand, we all have our own set of self esteem issues.

I think since you are now broken up with the wife, it's ok not to get into this stuff with her. Just say "I can't be the one you process that with. We are broken up now. " And if needed, block her number so she stops bothering you.

If she has this much self hatred she could work with a counselor. You are not the free counselor.

HOWEVER... The wife's spouse refuses to talk to me because they're hurt with the fact I broke things off with the two of them.

Some people prefer being "plain exes," and don't want to try for "exes and friends." Leave the spouse be.

The spouse has been really weird and awkward with me, including ignoring me when we're in settings with other friends.

Well, sometimes it takes time to figure out how to be in mixed groups.

I've just pulled myself out of all of mutual friend groups and they've been talking negatively about me, causing drama with other friends.

Are you saying you pulled out of the mutual-friend groups, and the spouse is talking mean about you and making drama with other friends? How would you know? Who told you?

You can organize whatever friend gatherings you want and not invite you exes. You could be calm about it to the friends. "We broke up. I can't hang around my recent exes for obvious reasons, but I'm fine with y'all being friends. Y'all hang out whenever you want."

If you are behaving calmly, and the exes are behaving wacky, the friends can make up their own minds.

They've said how I "forced" myself on their marriage and "wouldn't take no for an answer". I thought we were leaving on good terms, but I think they're mad at me for the fact I couldn't stay in a poly relationship with them.

Sounds like they are blame shifting, projecting their upset and trying to make you "the bad guy," when you are NOT the bad guy. The situation just didn't pan out. It's not like them behaving all wacky like this is going to make you run BACK to them and their weird.

Let them be mad. They can feel all their feelings. You don't have to do anything about it. You don't have to JADE your decisions to anyone. (Justify, argue, defend, explain.)

I have only a few friends who have heard me out and are shocked by both of the married couple. I feel like I've gone crazy at this point and started believing in some of the wife's lies about me. My few real friends have reassured me that she's spouting things that are completely out of character of me and never backed with any evidence where as I have a paper trail or texts, voice memos and hand written notes/letters of her weird manipulative behavior.

Believe your real friends. Believe your paper trail of stuff.

I don't know if it's misplaced grief or just anger coming out sideways. I don't know if it's them flipping it around on you, like DARVO stuff. But either way, they are doing inappropriate behaviors towards you, rather than taking the breakup with some grace and behaving decently.

DARVO - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

People date. Sometimes it works out. Sometimes it does not and they break up. It's a bummer, but a breakup doesn't have to be the end of the world or a big drama thing.

Remember that you don't have to JADE your decisions to anyone.

Sounds like you are best out of this whole thing. Take the time you need to heal.

I'm sorry, though. Nobody deserves this weird.

Galagirl