And.... the pendulum has swung the other direction.

[jdicky700]

Some of you may have read my other posts explaining how my wife and I got into our Vee relationship so I won't rehash it here.

A new problem has emerged for me. I have reason to question the motives of Navy in our relationship. I don't want to totally waste your time telling the whole story but here is the highlights:

Navy started courting another girl (I'll call her Daisy)
Myself, Stella, Navy and Daisy all work in the same small business.
Nobody knows about the relationship and circumstances of our V relationship.
Daisy didn't know about Navy and Stella
Daisy and Stella just came back from a girls vacation where they started talking about Navy and all the details came out.
Turns out Navy and Stella developed a very deep emotional connection and were "physical" via various social media apps.
Navy used the same pick up lines on Daisy as he did on my wife (I would wait for another lifetime to have a chance with you, I've never had a connection with anyone like you, blah blah blah blah)
Navy used these lines on my Stella when she was very vulnerable emotionally a few months ago.
Daisy is also a married woman (starting to notice a trend).

So... there are the basics. I can get more specific if anyone is curious. Daisy has written Navy off and is very hurt. Navy has expressed to me in the past he had feelings for her, but it is understood he is going to continue dating. Stella was very upset because Daisy is too close to home.

After talking with Daisy, we both started connecting some dots. Navy has girls in Georgia, Texas and California that are ready to drop their lives and fly out to him. He uses the same pick up lines to sweet talk girls. Why does this matter?

My wife loves him. She almost threw her whole life away for him. I no longer am comfortable with her seeing him. I now believe that she is just another girl in a long line of girls he gets his rocks off with as he moves from place to place (he was in the Navy - hence the name lol). There are other circumstances why he is currently in Ohio.

My wife is too good to be a piece of meat. It was very hard for me to transition into this lifestyle - especially when you add to it they started off behind my back. I was doing very good. I was starting to accept this as just another part of our wheel of life. Now...I can hardly look him in the eye. I feel like he is using her. I expressed this to her and she thinks he has valid reasons for his behavior. Again though...another relationship founded on deception and lots of lies. First it was me during the affair...now it's Stella. I feel like there is a pattern emerging but she doesn't see it.

In fact, they are out on a date as I type this and it pisses me off. I hate it.
I absolute hate it right now. I wish we could just take a break for a week or so to sort feelings out but it upset her so much I agreed to continue because she wanted to see him so much. I wanted to talk to Navy but she was afraid he would call off their date.

What do I do? I want my wife happy. Our marriage is starting to feel whole again. She loves me...she loves him. If he is just a dirt bag...do I let her just fall and be their to catch her? What about when they are together...I loathe it right now. Ugh. This is so hard right now. I don't know what to do. A week ago I thought I was having physical feelings for Navy (thank god I didn't act on them, they passed quickly and I now know I was caught up in the emotions of all the new experiences). I threw myself headlong into this v relationship...embraced it with open arms. Now...I am full of regret and sadness that I'm in this place and sadness that I believe my wife is just a booty call for Navy. My gut (which has been all too accurate the last couple of years) tells me I'm right. I'm really worried...if she is just being used it would crush her. Absolutely crush her.

I'm really missing her and I just want her to come home. I don't want her to get hurt. I love Stella way too much for some a-hole to hurt her. You don't hurt the mother of my children and you don't hurt my best friend in the whole world. I take a lot of offense to it.

 

[Magdlyn]

I understand you feel protective. But Stella is an adult, not your child. In poly, we need to let our partners make their own mistakes. I am sure I have felt compelled to date and have sex with certain men that my SO may have thought weren't good enough for me. But she never said a thing. I had my dates, my relationships. I had some fun, some great sex, and then became disillusioned, or bored, or pissed off, or whatever, with this or that guy. Or he felt I wasn't right for him, and drifted off or dumped me. I wasn't crushed. I am resilient. Sometimes the breakup is mutual and there are no issues with moving on. Sometimes there was some sadness, or anger, yes. But I learned something about myself from each adventure.

Dating is hard! It just goes with the territory. After a while, we learn to cope in our own ways. We get better at spotting the jerks, the narcissists, the immature ones. I'd rather love and lose than never love at all. Once in a while, a good one comes along, and it makes all the trying worth it. I am too in love with life to sit in the house and not get out there and live life to the fullest.

 

[GirlFromTexlahoma]

So, Stella knows everything you've written here, and she still wants a relationship with Navy?

I agree that it's a bad idea to try and "protect" her from him. But you can set up boundaries for yourself.

You said you can't look Navy in the eye? Then don't. Be civil and professional at work, if you have to interact with him, but there's no reason to continue a friendship with a guy you don't like. I think it's fine to say you don't feel comfortable with him in your home. That's your space, and it should be safe for you. You can also decide how much or how little you want to hear about him from your wife. Totally fine to say, "Stella, hearing about your relationship with Navy makes me uncomfortable, please only tell me (sexual health info, when you will be home, whatever) and process your relationship stuff with other friends or a therapist."

You asked "do I just let her fall and be there to catch her?" Well, I don't think you have much choice in the let her fall part. She's already invested in this guy, if things don't work out, there will be stress and sadness But, you can love her and be her husband and still the share the "catching" with her friends/family/therapist. You don't have to be her knight in shining armor here.

 

[LoveBunny]

Sorry to hear Navy has turned into a disappointment, it happens. I got some worldly wisdom from a 70 yr old woman the other day who lived a lot of her life in nonmonogamy. She said, "There's consciously poly, then there's just chasin' tail." Sounds like he's just chasin' tail.

A few years ago, I opened up my marriage to be with a woman I had fallen for. She turned out to be a whopping disappointment, and I got my heart broken, badly. Hubby couldn't stand watching me get hurt like that. He had to ask me to manage my own emotions so I wasn't dumping all my pain onto him. It involved a bit of compartmentalizing, but all in all I thought his request fair. Why should hubby have to try to clean up a mess he didn't make? I did my best to put on a happy face and be present and available in my marriage despite my pain over someone else.

You can't do anything for her except love her and support her. If you don't like Navy anymore, you can opt to stay away from him as much as possible. I also think it's ok to ask wife not to dump her problems with him onto you. If she really needs you, she can ask for you for support, but your time together should be about the two of you, not about Navy.

Best of luck.

 

[jdicky700]

@GirlFromTexlahoma

It's hard not to want to protect her. It's my girl (please don't read that as a sign of ownership...I don't mean it that way)! I've been with her 16 years, married almost 15. It causes me pain when she is in pain. It's so hard. I have sacrificed so much for Stella, it's just hard to see someone use her.

I did resolve last night that I do have to let her walk her own path on this one...but damn is it hard. I will be waiting in case she falls...I can't help but do that. I have big shoulders...I will always catch her.

As for Navy...I am trying to distance myself in a friendly manner. It's a little tough at home because he has been so integral to my family unit the last few months. He's gone to school plays with my kids, family cook-outs. Stella is going to want to continue that. I guess I just have to swallow the feelings a little bit.

@Magdlyn

Please don't think I'm trying to treat Stella like a child. I wish I could explain what I see completely. She is so love struck with him it would be cute if the circumstances were different. The fact of the matter is I worship this woman. Nobody hurts my goddess if you will.

Sometimes there was some sadness, or anger, yes. But I learned something about myself from each adventure.

I'm trying to remind myself of this all the time. There are constant lessons in life to learn and this is one Stella and I will both take something from in our own ways.

I'd rather love and lose than never love at all.

I'm reminded of this quote from William Faulkner when I read that - "“Given the choice between the experience of pain and nothing, I would choose pain." It's very appropriate for me right now. Even pain does make one feel more alive...and it is much better than the alternative.

@LoveBunny

"There's consciously poly, then there's just chasin' tail."

I really do hope I'm wrong on this one. I guess what makes this all more significant is everything else that surrounds this relationship. The affair between Navy and Stella, my marriage almost falling apart including a brief separation that was really hard on our four children. Life has been very hard the last few months and to think this might all have been for some "tail," that's a really bitter pill to swallow.

Hubby couldn't stand watching me get hurt like that. He had to ask me to manage my own emotions so I wasn't dumping all my pain onto him.

I just don't think I can do this. I'm her husband. Her best friend. I know there is a balance, but I have always been the type to put someone else first before me. I can't help it. I'm wired that way.

If she really needs you, she can ask for you for support, but your time together should be about the two of you, not about Navy.

Stella is pretty good about this. I once brought something up about Navy and she quickly reminded me we were having "our" time. This week when everything came out about Daisy and Navy I had to be there for her completely. It was hard but that's my job as her husband. She quickly got over it but my anger still lingers.

~~~

Thank you guys soooo much for taking the time to respond to me. This has been a crazy transition for me as Stella and I have openly started this journey.

“The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot
learn, feel, change, grow or love.
Chained by his certitude, he is a slave; he has forfeited his freedom.
Only the person who risks is truly free.”

 

[GirlFromTexlahoma]

@GirlFromTexlahoma

It's hard not to want to protect her. It's my girl (please don't read that as a sign of ownership...I don't mean it that way)! I've been with her 16 years, married almost 15. It causes me pain when she is in pain. It's so hard. I have sacrificed so much for Stella, it's just hard to see someone use her.

Trust me, I get it... I can get very "mama bear" if I think someone might hurt Andy!

As for Navy...I am trying to distance myself in a friendly manner. It's a little tough at home because he has been so integral to my family unit the last few months. He's gone to school plays with my kids, family cook-outs. Stella is going to want to continue that. I guess I just have to swallow the feelings a little bit.

I really do hope I'm wrong on this one. I guess what makes this all more significant is everything else that surrounds this relationship. The affair between Navy and Stella, my marriage almost falling apart including a brief separation that was really hard on our four children. Life has been very hard the last few months and to think this might all have been for some "tail," that's a really bitter pill to swallow

I just want to say... I don't know if you're brave or crazy or both to attempt making this work. I *might* be able to forgive an affair... And I suppose there's a teeny tiny sliver of possibility that I could cope with the relationship between my spouse and the other person continuing after I found out. But I could never do what you're doing, and keep that other partner in my life in any way. I'm honestly not sure if I want to applaud you or shake some sense into you Please do take care of *yourself*, too.

Ok, onto the question part why do you assume Stella will get hurt?

From what you're saying - if I'm understanding it right, please correct me if I'm wrong! - she and Navy have worked out the Daisy stuff to their satisfaction. And she knows about the other women he is/was talking to? So I'm assuming they've resolved that, too, and either she's ok with it, or he's going to stop. I guess what I'm saying is... She seems to know who this guy is, she's going into this (well, continuing in this) with her eyes open.

I get why you don't like the guy - I don't like him either, based on what you've written - but it sounds like Stella does like him, flaws and mistakes and all. Maybe she knows exactly who and what she is getting, and is fine with it???

 

[JaneQSmythe]

Trust me, I get it... I can get very "mama bear" if I think someone might hurt Andy!

I get it, too. Some of it, I think, stems from the length of relationship and some from fundamental personality traits. I have been with MrS for 24 years, we were young when we got together and have learned to "look out" for each other as we watch each other make mistakes, learn and grow. Our strengths and weaknesses complement each other and we look to each other to see what the other is missing.

I do feel protective of him - he is so sweet and mellow, I am the cynic. He has taught me to love and trust but I worry that other women will take advantage of him...

Dude, OTOH, is a different story! We have been together 5 years, but he was already set in his ways when I met him. He is a bossy, argumentative cuss (like me). I am more concerned for the women he pursues, as he can be abrasive at times and could easily offend inadvertently - but this comes from a place of passion, which also makes it incredibly exciting!

 

[kdt26417]

Hi jdicky700,

My sympathies for what you're going through. Your options all pretty much suck. You could go beat the snot out Navy, and/or threaten to do worse unless he stops dating Stella. I don't recommend that. I'm sure Stella wouldn't be pleased. Next, you could drop an ultimatum on Stella: "Navy or me." Hopefully she'd favor you, but again probably wouldn't like it. No matter what you do to pry her away from Navy, there is a question of how long she'll hold a grudge against you for that. What if it's a lifelong grudge? Is it worth it?

If you step back and let her do as she will, there's two possible outcomes. One is that Navy will turn over a new leaf and become a decent guy after all. The other possible outcome is that Stella will get badly hurt. In which case, Stella will probably kick herself for being such a fool. That's part of the learning process. Love makes fools of us all.

As I see it, the best thing to do is tell Stella of your concerns, then drop the subject and let Stella choose her own path. If Navy hurts her as predicted and she comes back to you a ball of tears, at least refrain from saying, "I told you so."

Which option will you choose?
With compassion,
Kevin T.

 

[GalaGirl]

I haven't read anywhere that you, Stella and Navy agreed to have a Closed poly V. Did I miss it somewhere?

This whole thing is going way too fast if it were me. I have no idea what the actual agreements ARE. I cannot tell if he's cheating on Stella, or if (Navy and Stella) agreed to have an Open V on his side and she's totally fine with him dating other people. They just didn't inform YOU so they just are continuing to keep you in the dark.

Either way? It sounds too fast for you. And you have no idea what the actual agreements are either. I think you could put on the brakes and ask for clarification.

I wish we could just take a break for a week or so to sort feelings out

If this is what you need, you could request it.

but it upset her so much

So she's upset. So what? If she doesn't want to meet the need for a break, she could tell you "Nope. I will not be meeting your need." That would be her owning it and giving clear communication.

Because right now she cries, and you fold. Basically it sounds like she knows how to get her way with you.

If her goal is to be a decent hinge for you, she could slow this way down. What IS her goal here? Take you for granted while obsessing about Navy?

I agreed to continue because she wanted to see him so much.

You could NOT agree to continue until agreements are cleared up.

She could go see him anyway, but at least on YOUR side of things you are being honest about how you feel and what you need. Rather than subsuming yourself.

I wanted to talk to Navy

So talk him him and get some answers. Supposedly he's your friend, right?

but she was afraid he would call off their date.

She can deal with feeling fearful. She won't melt.

Why are neither you or her are willing for her to experience the full gamut of human emotion?

Each one of you could meet your own needs and do your own emotional management. Rather than you doing yours AND hers.

Because they way you guys work it right now? It's you left holding the bag a lot of the time. Aren't you tired of it yet?

I think you could tell Stella you have no desire to be in a wonky poly V with her and Navy. You won't forbid her to see him or anything, but at the same time, if it implodes, neither will you be there to pick up the pieces.

Because if Stella takes you along for the ride (and you allow it)?

Stella chooses to go along with Navy if he's a known cheater (cheated with Stella on you... might be cheated in Stella with Daisy) and she gets hurt (and you pick up the pieces for her?)

You basically are signing up to be the Stella doormat and I don't see how that is healthy. Always cleaning up Stella messes.

I think you could exercise better boundaries. Stop participating. Tell Stella you are no longer up trying to change a cheating affair to a poly V because they play all wonky and it's just drama after drama and never a break.

Call a counselor and being to process the cheating affair on your own. Whether Stella comes to her senses or if this is the end of the line for the marriage -- you guys have to sort that out.

But at least you could STOP being taken along for the ride and set a boundary where you tell Stella you don't want to hear any more about her and Navy and any new drama. All her problem. She chose to go there.

REDUCE you own stress.

I am so sorry you deal in all this.

Galagirl

 

[jdicky700]

Good day to all!!!!

Thank you for all the advice and well thought out responses.

@kdt26417

If you step back and let her do as she will, there's two possible outcomes. One is that Navy will turn over a new leaf and become a decent guy after all. The other possible outcome is that Stella will get badly hurt. In which case, Stella will probably kick herself for being such a fool. That's part of the learning process. Love makes fools of us all.

That is what I've decided to do. Stella and I had a long talk last night and I have "let go" of this situation in regards to her relationship with Navy.

at least refrain from saying, "I told you so."

I agree one hundred percent. Nothing would be gained and to be honest I would be really bummed if it came to that point. This is one time in life where I really hope I'm wrong.

@GalaGirl

I haven't read anywhere that you, Stella and Navy agreed to have a Closed poly V. Did I miss it somewhere?

You did not miss that. Navy is free to date in this arrangement. Here is the issue. Stella knew Navy liked Daisy, hell I knew a long time ago he had feelings for her. Daisy was one of the ways he threw me off of the affair with Stella. Navy told Stella that there really wasn't much but a casual interest....he started talking to her when they were trying to end their affair late December and Daisy was supposed to be the girl to help Navy get over Stella. I'm rambling and making this sound like middle school drama. Here is the issue...it's not Daisy in particular. Rather it's the omission of important details about Daisy to Stella. Navy would tell Stella they really aren't talking anymore...all the while they are having phone sex together several nights a week. The issue isn't the girl per se...it's the deceit again. The lack of just being up front about the issues at hand. Add to that the fact that there are all these girls all over the country that are ready to drop their lives waiting for a phone call from him to come and be with him. Does he suck these girls in everywhere he goes? Make them all think they are the only one for him? That's the big issue at hand to me. It was for Stella until he explained all the issues away to her satisfaction. Which is fine. It is her journey to take with him.

This whole thing is going way too fast if it were me. I have no idea what the actual agreements ARE.

I agree. Way to fast. Problem is the brakes have been removed and there is no stopping this train. We don't have agreements in place and Stella isn't interested in having rules (she's been going through somewhat of a mid-life crisis and I really do think that's what started the whole affair to begin with).

If this is what you need, you could request it.

I did.... no interest. Fortunately for me Navy is on vacation for the next week. At least I can relax a little and gather my thoughts on this situation.

What IS her goal here? Take you for granted while obsessing about Navy?

That is what I thought at first. I don't think this is the case today. We had a good conversation last night. Both Stella and I think overall this crazy journey the last few months has taught us some amazing life lessons. I know if has for me. Stella told me last night she thinks this is going to run its course soon, that Navy came into her life at just the right time. Doesn't justify an affair, but I can understand where she is coming from knowing what she was going through.

So talk him him and get some answers. Supposedly he's your friend, right?

I am actually. In our conversation last night I told Stella I needed to...and I was going to say things to him that are going to make him uncomfortable. For the first time ever...she said she understands it's necessary and she is OK with it. I was a little surprised to hear her say that. I want to be OK with their relationship again...I was getting there a week ago and this issue with Daisy put a major wrench in it for me as well as a few other issues that I have never had resolution with.

It's you left holding the bag a lot of the time. Aren't you tired of it yet?

Yes... very tired. Emotionally spent and unhappy. I told her this last night and for the first time it seemed to click for her. It really rang true to her when I told her I was going to open my heart and seek another person on an emotional level. Navy and I are both very emotional guys(I'm sure that's pretty obvious with me reading the stuff I write lol), she cannot be there totally for both of us.

Call a counselor and being to process the cheating affair on your own.

I am actually starting to lean this way. If she doesn't want to participate that's fine...I do have myself and our children to take care of.


“Love, like everything else in life, should be a discovery, an adventure, and like most adventures, you don’t know you’re having one until you’re right in the middle of it.”

 

[GalaGirl]

I am actually starting to lean this way (about seeing a counselor to process on my own) . If she doesn't want to participate that's fine...I do have myself and our children to take care of.

In our conversation last night I told Stella I needed to (talk to Navy)...and I was going to say things to him that are going to make him uncomfortable.

(I am) very tired. Emotionally spent and unhappy. I told her this last night and for the first time it seemed to click for her. It really rang true to her when I told her I was going to open my heart and seek another person on an emotional level.

I hope you continue in this more assertive path. Meet your own needs FIRST. Rather than hanging on to see what Stella does first before you do anything. You could forge your OWN path through this mess.

I hope you continue to think more about you and your kids and let Stella deal with her own self on this one. You are over involved with it and it is draining for you. Step aside and get you and the kids out of the line of fire.

If she cannot see for herself ahead of time, then I guess she has to learn the hard way. But you and the kids don't have to be in the splash zone. You can get you and the kids out of it.

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hi jdicky700,

Sounds like you and Stella have come to some shared understandings. That seems like a good thing to me.

Keep us posted ...
Sincerely,
Kevin T.