anger at self, need advice

F

frogprincess21ca

New member
Okay, well, here goes. I am really lucky. I have two wonderful men in my life.

The problem I have is that I have grown to hate intimate contact with Patrick, the man I love, that I was engaged to. (We no longer engaged, because he wants my other partner to be on equal footing.) Kissing him makes me almost sick to my stomach. It does not evoke any feelings of physical attraction. He is aware of this. It feels wrong when we make love. Things in this relationship have been going downhill physically for at least three years. He has been having problems in "that area" even though he is only 27. He cannot get it up or keep it up. (I know this is graphic. Sorry if I offend).

So for both of us, this side of the relationship has died. We love sleeping next to each other and cuddling. We talk and laugh and fight just like any other couple that lives together. To lose each other (break up) would devastate us. We have always been more friends then lovers. I feel terrible not being able to comfortably physically express my love for him. He is going through a tough time right now, due to some illness, and severe attention deficit disorder, which involves inattention.

Adding to the pile, my first boyfriend, Dylan, has come back into my life. Patrick fully supports this. My physical intimacy is amazing with Dylan. Our love is extreme. If I were ever to say that there was such a thing as soul mates, he would be the one.

So, I love two people, which is weird, because even though I have lots of friends that are in many different version of poly relationships, I am not quite comfortable with it, internally, yet. I mentally want this, but I was raised as a mono, and am still having problems moving away from preset notions. I chose these relationships, and am happy with the way things are.

I am having severe problems with not being able to love Patrick and be intimate with him. He just doesn't do it that way for me, and I feel terrible about it. He is aware of this and tells me it's okay, but I am still feeling guilty.

The other thing is that I am turning 30 this year. Last year, my drive for intimacy jumped through the roof. I never was this way before and now this causes me to feel weird. I don't know how to be okay with this.

Dylan is new to poly, as well. He is just learning with the rest of us, because this is all new to us.

How do I be okay with wanting of lots of intimacy with Dylan, and be okay with the fact that I don't physically want Patrick? I feel terrible. I mean, I love them both deeply. I have given Patrick the okay to seek elsewhere, if he wants. But I still feel the loss of the ability to love Patrick in an intimate way.

Confused,
Tanya
 
Don't worry about being graphic here. We have seen the gamut.

Are you sure that you aren't just a non-sexual partner to Patrick? That is totally valid, if you are. Sex and love are not always mutually inclusive. It could be that you are just fine with polyamory, but think that you are not okay with it because of your mono tendencies.

I have had bouts with my husband PN, where we have not had sex for up to three months. I have a lot of sex with my partner Mono, every day. It makes no difference to the amount of love I have. I also have a non-sexual boyfriend that I consider to be close, and a girlfriend that, due to circumstances, I don't have tons of intimacy with.

There are others on here that don't have sex with partners often because they have LDRs. The sex part in poly is kind of secondary. I don't know if you should be worried about it so much. If Patrick is happy, and you are, and everyone is, then you're good, no?

If the issue is that you want to have more, and so does he, yet you can't bring yourself to, then that is another thing. Is his illness anything to do with the lack of drive, for him and you? Is there any way around doing things a traditional way? Could you get a bit of kink on and be satisfied? Perhaps kissing is off the table, but a back massage isn't. Him penetrating you is off the table, but fingering you isn't. Him smacking your ass and inserting a dildo is okay, but not a blow job. See where I'm going? There is lots to do. Maybe use a bit of creativity, if you still want to have sex with him, that is.
 
I'm curious when your lack of attraction to Patrick and his ED began relative to your involvement with the old boyfriend, Dylan. Are there any correlations? What happened to change the way you felt about being with him?

Has Patrick sought medical help for his problem?
 
redpepper said:
I have had bouts with PN where we have not had sex for up to three months. I have a lot of sex with Mono. It makes no difference to the amount of love I have. I also have a non-sexual boyfriend that I consider to be close and a girlfriend I don't have tons of intimacy with. There are others on here that don't have sex with partners often because they have LDR's. The sex part in poly is kind of secondary. I don't know if you should be worried about it so much... if everyone is happy, then you're good, no?
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That's a stretch. The inability to have sex is not secondary. Not wanting sex is. Big ol' difference.

@OP, define what you believe a 'partner' is. Is it romantic? Is it people you can hang out with? If it`s based in romance, and romantic love, then you aren`t doing Patrick any favours by being with him.

If it's based on 'relationships in any form' and he is also ok with that, then don`t feel guilty. Carve your own path. Just make sure neither of you are fooling yourselves.
 
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SourGirl said:
Define what you believe a 'partner' is. Is it romantic? Is it people you can hang out with? If it`s based in romance, and romantic love, then you aren`t doing your former fiance any favours by being with him.
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Wanting or needing sex does not define romantic love. I can cuddle and make out with my fiance and not want to have sex at all. I just want that special intimacy. People can have sex with no love whatsoever being in the equation. It seems odd that you would use sex in a definition of romantic love. Romantic love, to me, can exist quite happily with no sexual encounters at all.

Perhaps it is simply that the OP's NRE is playing silly buggers with her at the moment and things will settle down once she does? Either way, if she feels her relationship with Patrick is romantic, then it quite likely is. Having the physical aspect removed does not mean she does not love him, though I do see a red flag at the "sick to the stomach" bit.
 
There are people that would have sex if they were around their partner physically, but as they have LDRs, their relationships are built on different things to build closeness. Obviously I wasn't addressing your experience, Sourgirl, judging by your response.
 
FlameKat, I did not equate sex with romantic love. My response to RP differs from my response to the OP, hence making sure I directed my points. Cuddling and intimacy with romantic feelings are easily a part of romantic love. Please don't insert words in my responses that aren`t there. She doesn`t even want to KISS her partner. Most people who are still having romantic love feelings, want to kiss, cuddle, enjoy each other in a way that differs from the affection they use on a family member or a friend.
 
redpepper said:
There ar people on here and that I know of that would have sex if they were around their partner physically, but as they have an LDR, the relationship is built on different things to build closeness. Obviously I wasn't addressing your experience sourgirl, judging by your response. ;)
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Actually, I was speaking in general terms. I don`t think (judging by the OP) they can all be looped together. It`s a stretch. The OP is angry at herself for not feeling something. Think about it.
 
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@SourGirl, I did not insert words into your response that aren't there. Perhaps your own definition of romantic love could be defined. The OP was talking about physical intimacy. You mentioned sex in your response to RP, and then followed it by stating to the OP that if her definition of a partner was based in romance, then she was doing Patrick no favours.

She stated categorically that she is very in love with Patrick, just without any physical attraction at all. Physical intimacy 'feels wrong.' To me, that simply means their relationship needs new definitions, not that he isn't a partner, nor that she isn't partner material for him. it could be quite liberating if she could get over her sense of loss for intimacy and can find a new way to express it.
 
FlameKat said:
The OP was talking about physical intimacy... you mentioned sex in your response to RP and then followed it by stating to the OP that if her definition of a partner was based in romance then she was doing her fiance no favours.

She stated categorically that she is very in love with Patrick, just without any physical attraction at all. The physical intimacy 'feels wrong.'

To me, that simply means their relationship needs new definitions, not that he isn't a partner, nor that she isn't partner material for him. It could be quite liberating if she could get over her sense of loss for intimacy, and/or find a new way to express it.
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This is a good point. But what I think Sourgirl was trying to infer was that if any intimacy between the OP and Patrick feels wrong, even kissing, then maybe her feelings of love for Patrick are not romantic, but platonic. I have very deep feelings of love for many women in my life whom I could not possibly stomach the idea of kissing. My mother would be the obvious example, but this extends to good friends, as well.
 
Thank you so much for the responses.

Patrick's sexual problems started happening 3 years ago. They coincide with his depression/weight gain. Sex prior to that was good. It isn't something that came up when Dylan, my soulmate, came back into my life.

Redpepper, thank you for pointing out that there is more to a relationship and relationships don't have to involve sex.

Patrick is great. He is good with anything. He finds happiness in my happiness. I just miss the happiness in expressing my love to him. It's something I used to enjoy and now it turns me off. The loss hurts me. I have given him leeway to look elsewhere, but at this time in his life it probably will be pretty impossible.

Everything is changing in my life, and it is kinda overwhelming. I just got unengaged. That hurt, but I understand it a little.

Dylan moved in with us. We desperately needed a roommate and he desperately needed a place. Dylan and Patrick are becoming good friends, but are having problems learning to communicate. But both are really really amazing guys.

Patrick is going through a rough patch himself, personal and financial issues, due to being back in school. Having Dylan live with us has solved the financial issues. I digress, though.

I still feel terrible about not physically wanting Patrick. This is something that started out with me disliking kissing about 3 years ago, till now, which is a full-fledged feeling of wrongness when I kiss or try to be sexual. I don't think there is a way to teach myself to desire Patrick again. I wish I could. He is happy with whatever. I love him.

I am at the start of rebuilding the relationship with Dylan, but I love Dylan, as well.

The really hard thing, though, is with our families.

My family absolutely hates Dylan. They won't support my relationship with him. They want Patrick and me to have children. I don't know how to explain to them that this probably won't be happening, and I won't be getting married to him.

The situation is all-around complicated. I know it is worth it. Just so many changes in such a short time.

I still feel guilty about Patrick, though. I wish I could want him that way again. Maybe it isn't something that is permanent. But I am just kinda lost with the sadness I feel. Both my partners are happy.

Anyway, all my best wishes to people. If people want to talk on a more personal level, I have the Facebook thing.

Tanya
 
So, three years ago, Patrick started having ED problems, depression, and weight-gain. How much are we talking? 10 lbs? 100? At the exact same time, you suddenly found yourself disliking any intimacy with him at all.

What happened first? The dislike of intimacy, or the ED problem? Does your dislike of that intimacy stem from the problem?

I seriously hope he's seeking treatment for this. It sounds to me like it could be a major thyroid problem, or worse. Seriously, if he hasn't spoken with a doctor (and a good one, at that) about this, he needs to do so immediately. It sounds to me like he's got a major hormonal imbalance and that is causing other problems, like the weight gain and depression. ED can be caused by a lot of different issues, and most of them are quite serious.
 
As to Patrick's erectile problems, he has gone to the doctor. He was tested for thyroid and he doesn't have the numbers to be diagnosed. In the last year, he gained 100 pounds. They have run tests and he is healthy in all the emergency kinds of things.

As to the intimacy, no, it doesn't stem from his weight gain. I have never liked kissing him. However, I love cuddling and sleeping together.

@FlameKat I want to thank you for pointing out that maybe a new definition of a relationship with Patrick might be needed. I agree.

I am just having problems wrapping my head around it. My past belief was that people you love and want to marry should have some physical connection. I say past, because the fates are teaching me a new lesson. I just wish I could be better for him. I think he deserves so much more. But I love him and don't want to lose him. It's a good thing that I don't mind him being with others. But I don't think that this might be possible, with his body being the way it is.
 
Not to turn this into a thread about Patrick, but it sounds to me like he's having major health problems that are not being properly addressed. A 27-year old man with ED who has gained 100 pounds in the past year is far from undiagnosable, regardless of numbers. I've had friends with not totally dissimilar health problems related to endocrine dysfunction who were able to finally get help from an ACAM physician. If he hasn't had a second opinion, or even if he has, I recommend looking on their website to find a doctor near you who may have a different outlook on things. I myself began suffering from some adrenal fatigue and other problems which were solved by Dr. Mora in the Sacramento area. Don't accept "there's nothing we can do" as an answer for problems like this.

It's interesting that intimacy has been distasteful for a long time. I agreed that there may need to be some redefining of relationships. I hope that's something he can handle. But from the sound of things, he's a very kind and understanding person. Best of luck to the three of you.
 
frogprincess21ca said:
As to Patrick's erectile problems, he has gone to the doctor. He was tested for thyroid and he doesn't have the numbers to be diagnosed. In the last year he gained 100 pounds. They have run tests and he is healthy in all the emergency kinds of things.
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I would urge him to find a new doctor and try again. Most people take more than a year to put on 100lbs unless there is some underlying condition. All these things seem connected somehow. I have noticed that some men have a hard time revealing everything to their doctors (or they forget half of what they need to tell them). If he is willing, go with him.

It sounds like Patrick is okay with the way things are between the three of you. Find what things make him feel loved and do those. I imagine it took a lot of courage for him to accept his physical limitations and he probably feels just as guilty that things aren't the way they were. It will take work on your part to make sure you don't neglect one for the other.
 
This is Patrick. I've had many checks. So far, nothing substantial has been found. :( My next step is seeing a second doc at a different clinic in the new year.

I did start on anti-depressants just before the weight gain started, but I was also under high stress from financial issues at the time (mortgage broker messed up hardcore), and stress --> belly fat. 1+1=window...

@SvartSvensk: no ACAM here in Canada :(

Either way, it's an issue I definitely need to address (along with school, money, and the newer dynamics of everything).
 
patman023 said:
I've had many checks. So far, nothing substantial has been found. :( My next step is seeing a second doc at a different clinic in the new year.

I did start on anti-depressants just before the weight gain started. I was also under high stress from financial issues at the time (mortgage broker messed up hardcore), and stress --> belly fat. 1+1=window...

@SvartSvensk: no ACAM here in Canada. :(

Either way, it's an issue I definitely need to address (along with school, money, and the newer dynamics of everything).
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All this information is great to have. Thanks to both parties for chipping in with more to say. When both parties chime in (in a non-defensive way) that speaks volumes.

SvartSvensk hit the nail on the head. I was going entirely off the OP`s words. Thank you, Svart, for clarifying.

Some people get very co-dependent, even though the actual relationship has died, or they have grown apart. With more info, neither of you strike me to be that way.

Patrick, your symptoms and issues are a cause for concern. I think right now it's imperative that you keep pushing different doctors to help you figure out what is going on. Something is causing all this.

Once you two have some kind of answer, or even a direction to focus on, you`ll be able to look at the rest, without so much pressure, or feeling angry at yourself.

From your own words (I guess I need to make that disclaimer now), I see you both feel a whole lot of pressure from various sources, on various topics. School, money, health, new relationships (even ones that are good and healthy) can influence how we show 'love.'

What things have you tried to take the pressure off yourselves, so you can connect with each other?
 
Pat, some anti-depressants can cause or add to symptoms like you are experiencing, and with pharmaceutical influences involved, problems can be hidden and more difficult to diagnose.

I didn't realize you were in Canada. That is actually a good thing for you, as you won't have to deal with the expense of medical care in order to get to the bottom of your health issues! Depending on where in Canada you are, I may even be able to recommend someone to you. A good friend of mine (the same person who turned me on to ACAM here in the States) knows quite a few people medical community, particularly near Vancouver.

You may also want to do some searching on the forums over at t-nation.com - there are a lot of knowledgeable people on that site (I know, it's a silly bodybuilding site, but they have a lot of people who are focused on fitness and athleticism as well), many medical professionals, and plenty of men who have been right where you are and are currently recovering. If you post some numbers from some of your tests and share some details there, they might be able to point you in a better direction than I can myself.
 
Okay, I'm thinking seriously of changing my user name on here to "House Pedant"! frogprincess21ca, I've read through the 3 threads that you've started on here and I have to comment on this contradiction:
frogprincess21ca said:
We love sleeping next to each other and cuddling. [...] I don't physically want Patrick. I feel terrible. [...] I still feel the loss of the ability to love Patrick in an intimate way.
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You DO "love Patrick in a intimate way"! You DO "physically want Patrick"! What's more intimate than "sleeping next to each other and cuddling"? So you don't want to kiss him, so you don't want hot sex. As the Spanish say, "¡No te comas el coco!" [Don't eat your head!]

Frankly (and speaking personally here as a Class A1 Pervert), if I had to choose between a relationship of hot sex with no cuddling, then going home to sleep alone, or one of cuddling and sleeping/waking up together, but without the sex, I'd choose the latter. But DON'T let me tempt you down the path of perversion!

Seriously, you two love each other. You love each other physically. You just don't happen to get it on in a way that our society has brainwashed us into believing the ONLY proof of sexual love.

I don't know, but I suspect that you don't like kissing because it's an obvious prelude to other stuff that doesn't turn you on.

I could play the therapist here and ask if your distaste for sex started when Pat couldn't get it up, or if it was the other way around. It might just be possible that one of you is afraid of unenthusiastic response from the other (= failure) (= rejection) and so a vicious circle has built up.

I don't want to downplay the physical/medical problems here, Patrick needs to get supportive (concerned) advice.

But don't overdo the worry -> stress -> pressure on the sex front. Relax! Enjoy the cuddling! Don't eat your heads!
 
Damn! I wish someone had warned me against eating my head! >burp!<
 
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