Bad reaction to primary coming back from trip

[polynewgirl08]

Hi Everyone,

I need some advice, please. For background, my primary partner and I have been open/ENM for about two years now. We’ve played together with select males. My partner is bisexual so he has free rein to be with men on his own.

Recently, he started seeing a guy who was a friend first and developed into more. I’ve been slowly getting more comfortable with this new relationship. He has always stressed that his bisexuality enhances our connection.

Additionally, he has some trauma around being punished for being bisexual and how his previous partner never wanted anything to do with it. I’ve always tried to emphasize that I accept him and want him to be 100% himself.

I’ve never had another partner and I rarely entertain outside conversations. Due to having a past of infidelity, I am scared of it.

I’ve been continually learning how to accept this new male in our relationship.

Recently they went on a trip. Before they left, I was in a bad mood, which I rarely get into. He sensed I was irritated and asked if they should cancel the trip. I told him no, he should go and I’d feel better in the morning. I did feel better throughout the weekend while they were gone, but when they arrived back at our house I was hit with jealousy and insecurity and become cold.

I pulled away from him when he tried to compliment me and tried to cover up more. I’ve never been cold like that to him. I was just having an emotional response that I wasn’t expecting. He later told me it changed the whole dynamic of our relationship because I pulled away and showed him that I didn’t accept him through my actions.

I understand his point of view. I feel like I could’ve had a less selfish and more mature reaction when they arrived, as I know he was excited to be home and see me. I am quite a bit younger than my partner and I’m still learning how to handle these emotional triggers.

I’m very scared that this will end our relationship, as he says we can't go back in time. In my mind, I know I had a sudden trigger of my jealousy and insecurity, and I can work on that, but I fear that I’ve broken his trust and shown him I’m not accepting of his sexuality and new relationship, when I actually am. I know that these are my individual issues and it’s my responsibility. Yes, I should not have reacted immaturely and coldly, but it’s the first time I’ve ever been that way.

Your advice would be appreciated. Thank you all.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello polynewgirl08,

You can't always have a perfect emotional response to things, sometimes you are going to get jealous. It is not fair of him to end his relationship with you just because you had one off reaction to things. You are probably going to have more such reactions, it is going to take time for you to explore your emotions and figure out why you got so jealous. On a deeper level you seem to be perfectly accepting of things, you just need some leeway to have an irrational reaction sometimes. Just as you accept his bisexuality, he needs to accept you as an imperfect person. I say all that, and I can't stop him from leaving you, if that's what he wants to do. I hope he has a more mature reaction to the situation, maybe he just had an off moment too, and will get over it. In the meantime, keep exploring yourself to discover where the jealous feelings are coming from. What made this trip so different from the other males he has played with?

Sympathetically,
Kevin T.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you struggle.

I could be wrong in my impression, but something seems off here somewhere.

We’ve played together with select males. He is bisexual so he has free rein to be with men on his own.

That's casual sex, like it could be "one and done." Polyamory means full-on relationships, so this is new for you, a big change.

Are you also free to be with other people of the genders you are attracted to, on your own, for casual sex or poly dating? Is the option there, even if you choose not to exercise it right now? Or is the option not there for you, and it's open for him only?

He has always stressed that his bisexuality enhances our connection.

Him being bi is just him being bi. It doesn't "enhance" anything in your relationship. Why's he saying that? How does he think it enhances it? Do you agree or disagree?

Recently, he started seeing a guy who was a friend first and developed into more. I’ve been slowly getting more comfortable with this new relationship

That's fine. It's okay to be new to being in a poly V.

I’ve been continually learning how to accept this new male in our relationship.

Nope, the new BF did not join your relationship. (You + Partner) are one dyad. That is still here. It's just that there is now:

• You + Partner
• Partner + BF
• You + BF --- are not dating, not hanging out, not having group sex. None of that is required in polyamory. You can just be "basic polite" when you happen to bump into each other, the same basic manners you would use with the bank teller. There is nothing wrong with parallel poly.

I did feel better throughout the weekend while they were gone, but when they arrived back at our house I was hit with jealousy...

It sounds like you did not expect that. Would you have preferred time alone with your partner, and for your metamour (partner's partner) to go home to his place, rather than both your partner (the hinge) and his new BF to have shown up at your home?

He later told me it changes the whole dynamic of our relationship because I pulled away and showed him that I didn’t accept him by my actions.

It's the first trip away with his other partner. You have new things to process. Your reaction was normal and natural. It is not "selfish" or "immature" to have some feelings after a new experience.

Who is calling you selfish? You? Him?

Does he ALWAYS make things about himself like that? Like saying you just don't accept his bisexuality if he doesn't get his way or things don't go how he wants? Making you feel like you have to reassure him that you DO accept him and in doing so, you accept/excuse/don't get around to talking about the poor behaviors from him?

Can't you have your own things to process? Can't it be your turn sometimes to get some understanding and support from HIM?

I understand his point of view, and feel like I could’ve had a less selfish and more mature reaction when they arrived, as I know he was excited to be home and see me. I am quite a bit younger than my partner and I’m still learning how to handle these emotional triggers.

TBH, it reads the other way to me, like he's the one who is selfish and not especially mature. I get him being excited to see you after a trip, but you are dealing with big changes here and you need space to have your OWN feelings and your OWN process.

It is not "immature" to have some feelings.

Maybe you wanted to reconnect in private, not be stuck there with him and his BF at your house right after their trip. Him expecting you to be all smiles and all "Yippeee!" if this caught you off guard is not realistic, nor kind. Maybe you didn't think about or talk about how it should be when he came home and how you should reconnect. You are all newbies. Some things get figured out by doing.

If your feelings are an inconvenience to him... you might reflect: How is he building trust with YOU? Accepting YOU?

How much younger are you? Is this an age-gap relationship? How old is the new BF? Is there also an age gap there?

I’m very scared that this will end our relationship as he says we cant go back in time.

Why are you afraid of breaking up? Break-ups are a normal risk in dating. Sometimes things don't pan out. Nobody has to be the bad guy. Sometimes there's just not enough in common, or people want different things that are not compatible.

Be careful you don't let fear of a break-up keep you in unhealthy things.

I fear that I’ve broken his trust and shown him I’m not accepting of his sexuality and new relationship, when I am.

I am a little concerned you are blaming yourself for stuff that isn't yours. You accept he is bi. You are okay being in a poly V. Cool. What else do you need to do to PROVE this?

If you put gas in the car, but the fuel gauge is broken and reads "empty," that doesn't mean you didn't put gas in the car. It means the meter is wonky. So if you HAVE accepted him fully (put the "gas" in), but his "meter" is wonky, and he cannot feel it, who is responsible for fixing that? Him, right?

Can he accept that you learning how to be in a poly V can sometimes have some wobble, and treat you a little more kindly?

When any little thing happens, if he says you are breaking his trust or don't accept him? It sounds unhealthy.

Additionally, he has some trauma around being punished for being bisexual and that his previous partner never wanted anything to do with it.

You are not that ex. You aren't punishing him for being bi.

Nobody deserves trauma. He is still responsible for healing his trauma and not just dumping it on you.

Galagirl

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

It's healthy for him to see that someone doesn't have to be embracing to avoid punishing him. There are lots of things between punishing someone, and being joyful for them.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

I tell you what, it's rare that 3 posters (especially us 3 who are really quite different) agree so readily on here. You don't have to be perfect.

 

[Magdlyn]

It sounds to me like you handled his first trip away well. The part that went badly was the reconnecting time. Even the earliest book on modern ethical non-monogamy (The Ethical Slut, 1998), as I recall, addressed the reconnecting part.

The idea is, some people need some time apart when they go from one person to another. Person A, who actually had the date with another (Partner B), can want a day or two to sort of restabilize after that date. Or their other partner (Partner C) might want a day or two after Partner A has a date with Partner B, to sort of make sure Partner B's essence is off Partner A.

Some people want to make sure their partner has at least showered before they hug and kiss them on their return. Some people want more than that shower. They don't want to see their partner return with his other partner with the sex glow/NRE all over them. They want their partner to go to his own place first, shower, and then message/call and make a date to see them.

No one is required to welcome back their partner with open arms immediately following their date, much less be all excited for them for having had a fantastic sexy time!

Now, as you grow in poly, you might be able to meet your partner and his OSO with open arms after their hot date. This is called compersion. But you can have compersion and still not want to see them return together and be just as happy as they are. It's okay. Compersion is NOT a requirement. Many of us will have a form of FOMO, envy, insecurity, or just not want to see that or think about what they've just been doing. That's perfectly fine and it does NOT mean you're selfish or not ready for poly or any of that guilt trip he's trying to lay on you!

Please check out the list of resources that are in a sticky at the top of this section for much more info on how to handle this and many other common poly problems. I especially recommend the book Opening Up.

 

[polynewgirl08]

Hello polynewgirl08,

You can't always have a perfect emotional response to things. Sometimes you are going to get jealous. It is not fair of him to end his relationship with you just because you had one-off reaction to things. You are probably going to have more such reactions. I is going to take time for you to explore your emotions and figure out why you got so jealous. On a deeper level, you seem to be perfectly accepting of things. You just need some leeway to have an irrational reaction sometimes. Just as you accept his bisexuality, he needs to accept you as an imperfect person.

I say all that, but I can't stop him from leaving you, if that's what he wants to do. I hope he has a more mature reaction to the situation. Maybe he just had an off moment too, and will get over it.

In the meantime, keep exploring yourself to discover where the jealous feelings are coming from. What made this trip so different from the other males he has played with?

Sympathetically,
Kevin T.

Thank you very much for your advice and assurance. I am very hard on myself and it’s good to hear that I don’t need to be perfect. I think the trip was different for me as previously we had tried to make a similar connection work with his male ex. My primary was in a longer, more serious relationship with this ex and similarly they went on trips and hung out while they were attempting to reconcile with my knowledge and support. Personally, I’m recognizing that I had a fear my primary would leave me for his ex and this recent trip away triggered it. Additionally, past interactions with this new partner of my primary have been new as my primary has him over to our house often and wants us to hangout together versus his previous behavior of more casual hookups or dates where I didn’t have much interaction with the other men.

We spoke last night and are not breaking up thankfully, but I think there is work to be done on acceptance and understanding from him as you stated. He expressed to me that he is hurt because I widthdrew and expressed to me that he’s now anxious that I will do that again anytime he is with his boyfriend or even when it’s just us. I understand that is his fear of losing me, but coupled with his precious trauma of relationships where his partners have widthdrawn from him or weaponized sex. I want to affirm him in a healthy way; but additionally advocate for my needs and acceptance as it should be a two way street.

Moving forward and am actively working with a poly friendly therapist. I take solace in your words, especially knowing that I don’t have to be perfect and my emotional response was valid and appreciate your thoughts.

 

[polynewgirl08]

I tell you what, it's rare that 3 posters (especially us 3 who are really quite different) agree so readily on here. You don't have to be perfect.

Thank you very much, I am working on giving myself more grace. I’m very self critical to a fault I think and it makes me feel much better to know I don’t have to be perfect and I am allowed to make mistakes and learn from them.

 

[polynewgirl08]

It sounds to me like you handled his first trip away well. The part that went badly was the reconnecting time. Even the earliest book on modern ethical non-monogamy (The Ethical Slut, 1998), as I recall, addressed the reconnecting part.

The idea is, some people need some time apart when they go from one person to another. Person A, who actually had the date with another (Partner B), can want a day or two to sort of restabilize after that date. Or their other partner (Partner C) might want a day or two after Partner A has a date with Partner B, to sort of make sure Partner B's essence is off Partner A.

Some people want to make sure their partner has at least showered before they hug and kiss them on their return. Some people want more than that shower. They don't want to see their partner return with his other partner with the sex glow/NRE all over them. They want their partner to go to his own place first, shower, and then message/call and make a date to see them.

No one is required to welcome back their partner with open arms immediately following their date, much less be all excited for them for having had a fantastic sexy time!

Now, as you grow in poly, you might be able to meet your partner and his OSO with open arms after their hot date. This is called compersion. But you can have compersion and still not want to see them return together and be just as happy as they are. It's okay. Compersion is NOT a requirement. Many of us will have a form of FOMO, envy, insecurity, or just not want to see that or think about what they've just been doing. That's perfectly fine and it does NOT mean you're selfish or not ready for poly or any of that guilt trip he's trying to lay on you!

Please check out the list of resources that are in a sticky at the top of this section for much more info on how to handle this and many other common poly problems. I especially recommend the book Opening Up.

Thank you so much! That’s very helpful to hear that no one is required to welcome a partner back with open arms right away and explaining re stabilizing/reconnecting time and I will definitely look into this resource.

I think I realized after the fact that I would prefer him to come home alone to reconnect or for the meatmour to leave quickly. I am used to him leading our relationship and dynamic so I didn’t understand or negotiate these types of rules or boundaries which I will do in the future. It’s helpful to know compersion is not required since I think I was putting a lot of pressure on myself to get to that place!

 

[Magdlyn]

I am very hard on myself and it’s good to hear that I don’t need to be perfect.

I am going to make suggestions for nicknames, as you have mentioned three unnamed men and things can get confusing for your readers. You can use others if you wish and I will go back and plug them in.

John-- your primary
Bob-- his ex
Ted-- his current partner, your metamour

I think the trip was different for me, as previously, John and I had tried to make a similar connection work with his male ex, Bob. John was in a longer, more serious relationship with Bob, and similarly they went on trips and hung out, while they were attempting to reconcile, with my knowledge and support. Personally, I’m recognizing that I had a fear John would leave me for Bob, and this recent trip away triggered it.

Additionally, past interactions with John's new partner, Ted, have been new, as John has him over to our house often and wants us to hang out together, versus his previous behavior of more casual hookups or dates, where I didn’t have much interaction with the other men.

We spoke last night. We are not breaking up, thankfully, but I think there is work to be done on acceptance and understanding from John, as you stated. He expressed to me that he is hurt because I withdrew. He expressed to me that he’s now anxious that I will do that again any time he is with Ted, or even when it’s just us. I understand that is his fear of losing me, coupled with his previous trauma of relationships, where his partners have withdrawn from him or weaponized sex. I want to affirm him in a healthy way, but additionally advocate for my needs and acceptance, as it should be a two way street.

Moving forward-- I am actively working with a poly friendly therapist. I take solace in your words, especially knowing that I don’t have to be perfect and my emotional response was valid.

It sounds like John wants to lead you, and you are used to being led. Perhaps his former female partners understood John wanted to lead, so they used "feminine" tactics to retain a bit of power, i.e., withdrawing and weaponizing sex.

You don't want to be underhanded. But if you want real power and equality and to not resort to the tactics women have been forced to use under the patriarchy, you must assert your equality and use your voice. You must know yourself, your limits and boundaries, your fears, your desires, and advocate for what you want, with tact, but in no uncertain terms.

Now that we've given you more information and provided resources, you can read up and see what is reasonable to expect from modern polyamory, or even modern casual sex in open relationships.

I do believe you had some hidden jealousy, as I said, but so what? John is just thinking of his own comfort and wanting you to be happy and feel "enhanced" when he comes home sated from a date. Pfft. You're allowed to feel what you feel.

Try not to discuss these issues immediately before or after one of his dates though. Talk over what your feel and what you require on some other day. And make time for regular check-ins, for tweaking how things are going. Explain that you don't want to be passive aggressive and withdraw or withhold your affections. You're not rejecting him fully if you don't want to immediately hug him, kiss him or have sex with him, right after he parts from Ted. You just need an adjustment period.

Also, Ted doesn't need to be over all the time. You don't have to hang out with Ted at all, if you don't want to! Don't let John think this is required in polyamory. Some people practice parallel poly, where the 2 partners of the hinge never meet, or if they do, it's just very briefly in passing, at the door.

 

[polynewgirl08]

I am going to make suggestions for nicknames, as you have mentioned three unnamed men and things can get confusing for your readers. You can use others if you wish and I will go back and plug them in.

John-- your primary
Bob-- his ex
Ted-- his current partner, your metamour



It sounds like John wants to lead you, and you are used to being led. Perhaps his former female partners understood John wanted to lead, so they used "feminine" tactics to retain a bit of power, i.e., withdrawing and weaponizing sex.

You don't want to be underhanded. But if you want real power and equality and to not resort to the tactics women have been forced to use under the patriarchy, you must assert your equality and use your voice. You must know yourself, your limits and boundaries, your fears, your desires, and advocate for what you want, with tact, but in no uncertain terms.

Now that we've given you more information and provided resources, you can read up and see what is reasonable to expect from modern polyamory, or even modern casual sex in open relationships.

I do believe you had some hidden jealousy, as I said, but so what? John is just thinking of his own comfort and wanting you to be happy and feel "enhanced" when he comes home sated from a date. Pfft. You're allowed to feel what you feel.

Try not to discuss these issues immediately before or after one of his dates though. Talk over what your feel and what you require on some other day. And make time for regular check-ins, for tweaking how things are going. Explain that you don't want to be passive aggressive and withdraw or withhold your affections. You're not rejecting him fully if you don't want to immediately hug him, kiss him or have sex with him, right after he parts from Ted. You just need an adjustment period.

Also, Ted doesn't need to be over all the time. You don't have to hang out with Ted at all, if you don't want to! Don't let John think this is required in polyamory. Some people practice parallel poly, where the 2 partners of the hinge never meet, or if they do, it's just very briefly in passing, at the door.

Thank you. This is extremely helpful and soothing to me. I will work on advocating for myself and understanding my needs, fears, desires, and boundaries and expressing them. It’s also good to know I should allow for a little time before discussing issues or how situations made me feel, along with implementing regular check-ins.

This may be a question for another forum, but how do I approach with John how I’d like to know when Ted comes over or how often they want to meet? Is that a fair ask? Is there a common set-up for poly partners? My main concern is I don’t want to be caught off guard or feel obligated to spend time with the two of them, but on the same token, I don’t want to make John feel like he has to clear every date or overnight with me.

 

[Bobbi]

How do I approach with John how I’d like to know when Ted comes over or how often they want to meet? Is that a fair ask? Is there a common set-up for poly partners? My main concern is I don’t want to be caught off guard or feel obligated to spend time with the two of them, but on the same token, I don’t want to make John feel like he has to clear every date or overnight with me.

The home belongs to you and John. You should be showing each other respect by, at a minimum, letting each other know when you'll be having guests. It's about respecting your shared living space and each other.

You two need to talk about how you respect each other's space and agree on what feels okay for you. I let my NP know as soon as I know if I will be having someone over, and we do NOT have an open-door policy. Occasionally, he might say someone may or may not be coming over later.....but it's a heads-up when he's not sure. (His partner is a bit flaky.) I let him know right away.

I see my partners on set days. If those days change, I let my partners know.

Yes, you have a right to ask. It sounds like you don't talk to your partner much, if you are having trouble working out respectful rules or asking about scheduling.

He is still YOUR partner, and you should know how YOUR relationship will work. I get the idea that you are just along for the ride, instead of participating. You should ask yourself why you don't feel safe discussing your relationship, your home, or your boundaries.

When do YOU get date time, quality time, or time to do RADAR check-ins?

 

[Magdlyn]

Most committed poly couples, whether they live together or not, schedule dates with each other in advance. Mono couples tend to think any down time will go to their (one) partner. But poly couples need to schedule date days or nights, even if they live together, just as they schedule dates with their other partners. Otherwise it's a mess and you're in poly hell!

John should work out when he will be seeing Ted and when he will be free to see you. If he wants Ted to come over to your shared home, he should ask for your consent in advance. You can tell him no. Or you can say yes and hang out with Ted a bit. Or you can say yes and go to a different room or floor of your house. Or you can say yes and go out and leave them to it for a few hours, overnight, or whatever.

Some poly couples do not even allow other lovers in their shared home ever (but I think that's a bit extreme).

If my live-in nesting partner Pixi is at our shared home, I never spring my bf's arrival on her. Likewise, if she's spending the weekend at her bf's, and I have Aries at my house, Pixi tells me if she needs to stop home to get something she forgot, or whatever. And I would never drop by her bf Malachi's house when Pixi is there, without his prior consent. I don't expect him to want to see me when he's having a weekend with Pixi!

Just because John is bisexual doesn't mean Ted has free rein of your house. If John thinks that's fine, he's being selfish and disrespectful to you.

Read the book Opening Up for info about scheduling dates (and just about every good and bad poly practice you can think of-- it's a great book).

 

[MeeraReed]

You've gotten some good advice here. I would also suggest clarifying two things with John (your partner):

1) It is totally normal in poly relationships for someone to have mixed feelings about their partner's other relationship, such as struggling to process your feelings about his trip with a new partner. Totally normal. If you felt in a bad mood and got emotionally cold? That sounds like a perfectly okay reaction for the first time he took a trip with a new partner. "Emotionally cold" is not a bad reaction like getting mad, throwing a tantrum, saying mean things to your partner, etc. Your emotional makeup probably involves you withdrawing to process difficult emotions on your own.

2) Your reaction would likely have been the same whether John was with a man or another woman. Nothing to do with his sexuality. Everything to do with you getting used to John having another relationship.

 

[polynewgirl08]

I'm sorry you struggle. I could be wrong in my impression, but something seems off here somewhere.


That's casual sex, like it could be "one and done." Polyamory means full-on relationships, so this is new for you, a big change.

Are you also free to be with other people of the genders you are attracted to, on your own, for casual sex or poly dating? Is the option there, even if you choose not to exercise it right now? Or is the option not there for you, and it's open for him only?

Him being bi is just him being bi. It doesn't "enhance" anything in your relationship. Why's he saying that? How does he think it enhances it? Do you agree or disagree?

The new BF did not join your relationship. (You + Partner) are one dyad. That is still here. It's just that there is now:

• You + Partner
• Partner + BF
• You + BF --- are not dating, not hanging out, not having group sex. None of that is required in polyamory. You can just be "basic polite" when you happen to bump into each other, the same basic manners you would use with the bank teller. There is nothing wrong with parallel poly.

It sounds like you did not expect that. Would you have preferred time alone with your partner, and for your metamour (partner's partner) to go home to his place, rather than both your partner (the hinge) and his new BF to have shown up at your home?

It's the first trip away with his other partner. You have new things to process. Your reaction was normal and natural. It is not "selfish" or "immature" to have some feelings after a new experience.

Who is calling you selfish? You? Him?

Does he ALWAYS make things about himself like that? Like saying you just don't accept his bisexuality if he doesn't get his way or things don't go how he wants? Making you feel like you have to reassure him that you DO accept him and in doing so, you accept/excuse/don't get around to talking about the poor behaviors from him?

Can't you have your own things to process? Can't it be your turn sometimes to get some understanding and support from HIM?

TBH, it reads the other way to me, like he's the one who is selfish and not especially mature. I get him being excited to see you after a trip, but you are dealing with big changes here and you need space to have your OWN feelings and your OWN process.

Maybe you wanted to reconnect in private, not be stuck there with him and his BF at your house right after their trip. Him expecting you to be all smiles and all "Yippeee!" if this caught you off guard is not realistic, nor kind. Maybe you didn't think about or talk about how it should be when he came home and how you should reconnect. You are all newbies. Some things get figured out by doing.

If your feelings are an inconvenience to him... you might reflect: How is he building trust with YOU? Accepting YOU?

How much younger are you? Is this an age-gap relationship? How old is the new BF? Is there also an age gap there?

Why are you afraid of breaking up? Break-ups are a normal risk in dating. Sometimes things don't pan out. Nobody has to be the bad guy. Sometimes there's just not enough in common, or people want different things that are not compatible.

Be careful you don't let fear of a break-up keep you in unhealthy things.

I am a little concerned you are blaming yourself for stuff that isn't yours. You accept he is bi. You are okay being in a poly V. Cool. What else do you need to do to PROVE this?

If you put gas in the car, but the fuel gauge is broken and reads "empty," that doesn't mean you didn't put gas in the car. It means the meter is wonky. So if you HAVE accepted him fully (put the "gas" in), but his "meter" is wonky, and he cannot feel it, who is responsible for fixing that? Him, right?

Can he accept that you learning how to be in a poly V can sometimes have some wobble, and treat you a little more kindly?

When any little thing happens, if he says you are breaking his trust or don't accept him, that sounds unhealthy. You are not that ex. You aren't punishing him for being bi.

Nobody deserves trauma. He is still responsible for healing his trauma.

Hi Galagirl,

Apologies for the late response. Thank you for taking the time to help address this.

You are correct. John and I are a dyad, and Ted is his partner, so, parallel poly. And it's new for me. John attempted to have a similar relationship with his ex, but they had a much more separate relationship (they would be at his house or go on dates away from our house), whereas Ted is around us much more often and in our house.

1. I am allowed to be with genders I am attracted to alone for casual sex and relationships, but don't choose to pursue it currently. I've gone on one date separate from John, and the reaction wasn't good. We've talked through it and it's turned me off from exploring romantic connections. John has brought up my getting a boyfriend, or going on dates in fantasy talk, but due to his previous reaction, I haven't felt comfortable exploring it. I believe I am happy with John.

2. I think enhance is probably the wrong word. I think he's saying that his bisexuality and being allowed to explore that allows him to be authentic and therefore closer to me and trusting of me. I do think he appreciates me more after being with Ted (his boyfriend), as he loves us in different ways and our relationships are different.

3. I agree, I do think he's wanting this to all work out perfectly and being a bit selfish. I think he believes he's built the trust with me and has said he wouldn't be able to have this partnership with Ted without our relationship. He does check in with me when time with Ted is spent, at our house or away, and has never withheld any information. This is an age gap relationship of 20+ years, with me being in my late 20s and the younger partner.

4. I think I'm afraid of breaking up because I don't want to lose him. But you are right, I shouldn't be afraid, as people and circumstances change. I think, around your comments about the poly V and wobble, he feels like this should be easy and work out right away. I think the reactions are causing friction for him because he's not expecting additional work for this. He wants to be with Ted and myself happily and for all of us to get along.

5. I agree that he's responsible for healing his trauma and this may be a bit unhealthy. I want this to work for all of us, and I have my own personal agent and responsibility to heal and make sure this situation is healthy for me. I don't want to lose John and I don't want John to lose Ted.

I posted another thread around issues we are dealing with potentially with oversharing boundaries and his reactions to my reactions that I would appreciate your insight on. I recognize this poly V is harder for me, as I'm not the partner with a new relationship and that John, being the hinge, has to balance both of us.

 

[polynewgirl08]

The home belongs to you and John. You should be showing each other respect by, at a minimum, letting each other know when you'll be having guests. It's about respecting your shared living space and each other.

You two need to talk about how you respect each other's space and agree on what feels okay for you. I let my NP know as soon as I know if I will be having someone over, and we do NOT have an open-door policy. Occasionally, he might say someone may or may not be coming over later.....but it's a heads-up when he's not sure. (His partner is a bit flaky.) I let him know right away.

I see my partners on set days. If those days change, I let my partners know.

Yes, you have a right to ask. It sounds like you don't talk to your partner much, if you are having trouble working out respectful rules or asking about scheduling.

He is still YOUR partner, and you should know how YOUR relationship will work. I get the idea that you are just along for the ride, instead of participating. You should ask yourself why you don't feel safe discussing your relationship, your home, or your boundaries.

When do YOU get date time, quality time, or time to do RADAR check-ins?

Thank you for sharing this advice and experience. I agree that we need to talk about shared space and what feels okay with me. The past few times Ted has come over, he's always told me last minute, or only a few hours before, and I understand he is very busy with work sometimes and can't get around to telling me. I posted another thread around this that I would appreciate your insight on. I told him I would appreciate a heads-up so that I can have expectations for the night or make solo plans. He let me know he just wants me to be comfortable hanging out at home with them, and I shouldn't have to leave, and I'm making him feel guilty by leaving or not being comfortable. I won't highlight too much as it's on the other thread.

I think I don't feel safe sometimes discussing my relationship, home, and boundaries, because I don't want to rock the boat or cause problems, and this comes from my past of neglect from my family. Additionally, I'm used to John leading me and advocating for my needs. Re-negotiating my boundaries is new for me, as this wasn't needed in our mono relationship, prior to Ted.

We don't have scheduled date time, quality time, and check-in time, since it just happened whenever, before Ted was in the picture, but now I see that changes, and it leads to my jealousy that he's making time for Ted, because he has to schedule things, but we don't have a set schedule for time, since we live together and are always together.

Appreciate your thoughts, ideas, and support.

 

[polynewgirl08]

Most committed poly couples, whether they live together or not, schedule dates with each other in advance. Mono couples tend to think any down time will go to their (one) partner. But poly couples need to schedule date days or nights, even if they live together, just as they schedule dates with their other partners. Otherwise it's a mess and you're in poly hell!

John should work out when he will be seeing Ted and when he will be free to see you. If he wants Ted to come over to your shared home, he should ask for your consent in advance. You can tell him no. Or you can say yes and hang out with Ted a bit. Or you can say yes and go to a different room or floor of your house. Or you can say yes and go out and leave them to it for a few hours, overnight, or whatever.

Some poly couples do not even allow other lovers in their shared home ever (but I think that's a bit extreme).

If my live-in nesting partner Pixi is at our shared home, I never spring my bf's arrival on her. Likewise, if she's spending the weekend at her bf's, and I have Aries at my house, Pixi tells me if she needs to stop home to get something she forgot, or whatever. And I would never drop by her bf Malachi's house when Pixi is there, without his prior consent. I don't expect him to want to see me when he's having a weekend with Pixi!

Just because John is bisexual doesn't mean Ted has free rein of your house. If John thinks that's fine, he's being selfish and disrespectful to you.

Read the book Opening Up for info about scheduling dates (and just about every good and bad poly practice you can think of-- it's a great book).

This is extremely helpful. We have not been scheduling our own time, even though we live together. This leads to my jealousy when he makes scheduled time for Ted (because he has to and they don't live together) and feel less prioritized.

Per your second paragraph, we had a whole blow-up yesterday around this. I would appreciate your advice on my other thread about this. Long story short, Ted came over this week and I wasn't notified until right before. That night, I asked John to let me know if Ted would stay the night, as I would leave early before they got up. I waited to express that I'd like to know in advance of their dates until the next day and I'm getting more comfortable when we are all in the home together. He says now he'll feel guilty when he has Ted over and for making me feel like I'm not fully comfortable at home. I reiterated that for me to feel comfortable personally, sometimes I'll make solo plans, or be in the house in a different room. He's taking this personally, like he shouldn't be making me do this. But I'm happy to do this and it makes me comfortable.

I don't want to never allow Ted in the house. I'm just working on getting comfortable with it being more frequent. I got some good advice that maybe I shouldn't overshare my personal work and keep it personal (ex: ask John if Ted is staying over, but don't feel the need to explain to him that I'll leave early in the morning if Ted does).

I don't think John believes Ted has free rein of the house, but he just wants us all to be comfortable right away with each other and everything. I struggle, because I don't have to have compersion all the time.

I feel like John and Ted are getting the better situation here, as they are new lovers and are excited to see each other. This is fine. But if that's the case, and I'm working on getting fully comfortable with the situation, whether that's leaving the house when they're here, or staying in my room, isn't that fair, too? I'm making sure I'm healthy and comfortable in this situation.

 

[GalaGirl]

I responded to your other thread.

I wanted to lift this up. I could be wrong in my impressions.

1. I am allowed to be with genders I am attracted to alone for casual sex and relationships, but don't choose to pursue it currently. I've gone on one date separate from John, and the reaction wasn't good. We've talked through it and it's turned me off from exploring romantic connections. John has brought up my getting a boyfriend, or going on dates, in fantasy talk, but due to his previous reaction, I haven't felt comfortable exploring it. I believe I am happy with John.

That's sounding like John wants you to put in the emotional and mental labor to deal with JOHN having partners, but he won't do the work so YOU can date others. Like, he was such a drag when you had a date, that you quit dating other people. That might be easier for you in the short run, but in the long run, why are you shrinking yourself so much and "carrying" John? Is this gonna be open for John, but not for you?

2. I think enhance is probably the wrong word. I think he's saying that his bisexuality, and being allowed to explore that, allows him to be authentic and therefore closer to me and trusting of me.

Cool. But when he gets all emotional and starts the "doom talk," like he wants to break up with you, or with both you and Ted, how's that John creating space where you can feel close to John and trust John?

3. I agree. I do think he's wanting this to all work out perfectly, and being a bit selfish.

In this "perfect world," was John thinking this was going to be some kind of KTP thing, where all three hang out and are close pals? Whereas, you prefer parallel and being basic polite to Ted in passing and NOT hanging out? So because he's not getting his "ideal" and/or because it's taking time and some work to adjust to them dating at the house, and not here "instantly," John has tantrums, gets weird, morose or whatever?

Is John an emotionally resilient person? Or not so much?

4. I think I'm afraid of breaking up because I don't want to lose him, but you are right I shouldn't be afraid as people and circumstances change. I think around your comments about the poly v and wobble, he feels like this should be easy and work out right away. I think the reactions are causing friction for him because he's not expecting additional work for this. He wants to be with Ted and myself happily and for all of us to get along.

Some wobble is NORMAL. Is John struggling because he has unrealistic expectations?

You and Ted sound happy enough to be here, and like you get along well enough to be basic polite. Isn't that enough for John?

Was he hoping for compersion from you and from Ted? That's nice if it happens, but it isn't a requirement or goal.

5. I agree that he's responsible for healing his trauma and this may be a bit unhealthy. I want this to work for all of us. I have my own personal agent and responsibility to heal and make sure this situation is healthy for me. I don't want to lose John and I don't want John to lose Ted.

I hope you also don't want to lose your own self. You cannot "carry" John, or do all the emotional/mental labor here. Each person could do their fair share, and check that their expectations are reasonable and realistic.

If I'm being honest, I think you sound just fine for the stage you are at. It actually sounds pretty good.

But you kinda "hover," trying to manage John's feelings FOR him, where I'd back off and expect him to tend to his emotional management himself. You also explain WAY too much: why you choose to do this and that, when you could just stop oversharing. Are you trying to ward off doom by overexplaining? Like if you tell John all the little details, he won't wig out on you?

It also sounds like he wants this to be instant KTP, or something, and acts out if it's not, and seems to go into doom spirals. Is his mental health okay? Is he actually working with a counselor on his trauma?

Galagirl

 

[polynewgirl08]

I responded to your other thread.

I wanted to lift this up. I could be wrong in my impressions.

That's sounding like John wants you to put in the emotional and mental labor to deal with JOHN having partners, but he won't do the work so YOU can date others. Like, he was such a drag when you had a date, that you quit dating other people. That might be easier for you in the short run, but in the long run, why are you shrinking yourself so much and "carrying" John? Is this gonna be open for John, but not for you?

When he gets all emotional and starts the "doom talk," like he wants to break up with you, or with both you and Ted, how's that John creating space where you can feel close to John and trust John?


In this "perfect world," was John thinking this was going to be some kind of KTP thing, where all three hung out and were close pals? Whereas, you prefer parallel and being basic polite to Ted in passing and NOT hanging out? So because he's not getting his "ideal" and/or because it's taking time and some work to adjust to them dating at the house, and not here "instantly," John has tantrums, gets weird, morose or whatever?

Is John an emotionally resilient person? Or not so much?


Some wobble is NORMAL. Is John struggling because he has unrealistic expectations?

You and Ted sound happy enough to be here, and like you get along well enough to be basic polite. Isn't that enough for John?

Was he hoping for compersion from you and from Ted? That's nice if it happens, but it isn't a requirement or goal.

I hope you also don't want to lose your own self. You cannot "carry" John, or do all the emotional/mental labor here. Each person could do their fair share, and check that their expectations are reasonable and realistic.

If I'm being honest, I think you sound just fine for the stage you are at. It actually sounds pretty good.

But you kinda "hover," trying to manage John's feelings FOR him, where I'd back off and expect him to tend to his emotional management himself. You also explain WAY too much: why you choose to do this and that, when you could just stop oversharing. Are you trying to ward off doom by overexplaining? Like if you tell John all the little details, he won't wig out on you?

It also sounds like he wants this to be instant KTP, or something, and acts out if it's not, and seems to go into doom spirals. Is his mental health okay? Is he actually working with a counselor on his trauma?

1. I think we haven't gotten to the stage where I've been interested in anyone else, so he hasn't had to feel what I'm feeling about him and Ted, and he hasn't had to do the work. I feel a bit strange about pursuing another connection, because I don't want it to be out of spite, but it could be a good avenue, so that we each have other partners and I'm not feeling one-sided/carrying everything. You're right, I shouldn't shrink myself. I think I am enmeshed with John. I love him so deeply, I don't want anyone else. Opening up the relationship has been harder than expected. I need to figure out how to have my needs met too.

2. I don't think we've had to deal with this before, so there isn't a space where I feel safe and trusting after doom talk. As it's new, I've been working through things individually. After a blow-up like yesterday's, I try to talk to him and reconnect after.

3. I think, in his perfect world, I would be happy and comfortable any time they hang out, or are here, and I shouldn't have any bad feelings. In his mind, he knows our relationship is strong, and I know that too, But I have feelings of jealousy and insecurity that I have to self-soothe, and remind myself that he loves me and our relationship is good. I think John is emotionally resilient, but has an avoidant nature. So when things aren't going his way, he retracts. I do think there should be more grace around this adjustment period and not instant love and happiness for everything.

4. I think he does have unrealistic expectations, and wants everyone to be comfy and happy, and if that doesn't happen, he thinks he's making this too hard on everyone. I think he wants compersion, ideally. But I explained to him that I won't always have that for him and Ted, and that's okay for me.


5. Thank you. That makes me feel a lot better about the stage I'm at. You're definitely right-- I think oversharing has made it worse. I'm new to this and figuring out my needs, boundaries, and communication in this situation. I think he just wants us all to be happy and because I'm bringing things up that are clearly points of discomfort that I'm working through, now he's having to take that into consideration. Whereas if I don't overshare, we can all do our own emotional management. Now I feel like I've said too much and caused him to spiral. I don't want to carry all of the emotional labor, but I think in fairness he has less to carry. He loves both me and Ted, and he's happy with it.

 

[GalaGirl]

The past few times Ted has come over, he's always told me last minute, or only a few hours before, and I understand he is very busy with work sometimes and can't get around to telling me.

Having a regular schedule solves all that. You have your days with John. Ted has his. So if Ted has Tues and Friday, you know it already and can prepare accordingly.

I think I don't feel safe sometimes discussing my relationship, home, and boundaries, because I don't want to rock the boat or cause problems. This comes from my past of neglect from my family. Additionally, I'm used to John leading me and advocating for my needs.

Children/teens have few defenses when growing up in a neglectful household. "Lay low and don't get noticed" and being "super-obedient/compliant" basically help them avoid parental ire. I get not wanting to rock the boat if the parent or whoever might rain doom on the kid. But that's not CAUSING the problem. The problem lies in the parent not being able to manage themselves and NOT rain ire on kids. That type of parent usually yells stuff like "You make me blah-blah!" but it's just not true. If the kid COULD make the parent do stuff, they sure as hell wouldn't pick making the parent rain doom on the kid. The parent lacking self control is not the kid's fault.

If any of that happened to you, I'm sorry. But you are grown up now, and not in that household. I think you need to learn to have and enforce personal boundaries, even if, as a kid, it was not taught or respected.

Re-negotiating my boundaries is new for me, as this wasn't needed in our mono relationship, prior to Ted.

Why don't you think people in monogamous relationships need to have and maintain personal boundaries?

We don't have scheduled date time, quality time, and check-in time, since it just happened whenever, before Ted was in the picture,

Why is that? You just both took each other and each other's time for granted, and didn't bother to schedule quality time and dates together anymore?

He says now he'll feel guilty when he has Ted over and for making me feel like I'm not fully comfortable at home.

"What I need to be more comfortable is either a regular schedule or at least X hours notice. You only giving me Y hours notice bothers me."

Keep it on actions/behaviors done/not done. Stop going off into "feelings" talk, if it just ends up in mess.

Be okay with him feeling guilty. He IS giving you very short notice. If you tell him you don't like that, and he feels bad, that's a natural consequence to his behavior and your feedback. If he doesn't want to feel that way any more, he can learn to schedule Ted for Tues and Friday this semester (or whatever days). Next semester, maybe mix it up, and/or learn to give more heads-up than Y hours.

I feel like John and Ted are getting the better situation here, as they are new lovers and are excited to see each other. This is fine. But if that's the case, and I'm working on getting fully comfortable with the situation, whether that's leaving the house when they're here, or staying in my room, isn't that fair, too? I'm making sure I'm healthy and comfortable in this situation.

That is totally fair. You aren't the one in NRE.

You don't have to feel compersion. You can do whatever you feel like doing when they are having a date in your house.

Even just reading some of your posts makes me kinda cringe. It's like you don't get any breathing room or emotional space, because John wants to take up his emotional space and then wants to tell you how you need to be in your emotional space. Come on, John! Stay in your own lane!

That is where you are going to have to get firmer with your personal boundaries, tell him when he's crossing lines with poor behavior, and tell him what behavior you want instead.

ACTIONS. Not all this talk about feelings. Request for changes in his ACTIONS.

Galagirl