BDSM discussion

I really do thank you all for this thread and your posts in it. It may take me a while, but I read and try to absorb as much information as possible.
Hearing from Redpepper and Mono about their recent play helps me understand what can be expected.

LR, I really, really need these posts that help me see what it can be like for a sub, because I still (shamefully) don't completely understand, and I have a need to at least understand, even if I don't live the lifestyle.

Now that the whirlwind that was my life has subsided a bit, I'm taking a look at the things that had to be pushed to the back burner. One of these is D/s and getting more information on it. Redpepper, Mono, LR, your recent posts have been both helpfully informative and alarming for me.

First of all, the thing that has been holding us all back is Sunday's fear. We were all set to go to a local dungeon's meet 'n greet when Sunday had a complete breakdown and we haven't talked about it since. That was last November. I've been considering bringing the subject up with everyone again, BUT Sunday had stated that he wouldn't be comfortable going to a meet 'n greet with Easy and me, and after reading these last posts I'm scared to send them alone. Out of all of us, Easy is the closest thing we have to a Dom. I don't want to send two subs alone to a BDSM club if they won't be safe. I mean, normally Asha looks out for Sunday, but what if that "something" switch flips and she's unable to watch out for the both of them?

Okay, I know, they're big kids, but I'm going to push, hard, for Easy to go if I think it will make them safer. I'd like to go, too, but I think I might be in a place where I can let them go without me, if I'm careful. But if this isn't going to be a safe thing, I'll just keep mum like everyone else is, you know? I welcome thoughts.

In the meantime, I joined the local support group's e-mail list. Well, I'm waiting for approval, but I took all of the steps that are possible for me to get it done.
 
Lemondrop said:
I welcome thoughts.
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I'm glad you found value in the posts, Lemondrop. I can't relate to the social/community influences because I don't participate actively within that realm. Redpepper has a much deeper knowledge base in those areas.

BDSM is just a personal experience for me. If I was in a BDSM social setting without Redpepper (why I would be I have no idea) I would not act or be treated as submissive. The leash is off and I don't play that game, so to speak. I submit to one person and one person only. Plain and simple.
 
MonoVCPHG said:
BDSM is just a personal experience for me. If I was in a BDSM social setting without Redpepper I would not act or be treated as submissive. I submit to one person and one person only.
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I don't get why people expect that if you are submissive to someone then you're automatically submissive to everyone. Same thing with being dominant. Just because you enjoy the dynamic with one (or more) people doesn't mean that you feel the need to be the boss of everyone.

Along the same lines, if I don't know you, then you aren't allowed to assume that you have any kind of rights or whatever with me. It's almost like going into a regular bar and assuming that you can just go and make out with whoever you like there. I just don't get it yet.
 
Very interesting and helpful information for me. Actually, that makes me happy, because IF I found the lifestyle to my liking, I can NOT imagine being comfortable submitting to anyone but Easy. We chatted a bit about this today, but I had trouble (still) understanding the difference between being submissive and just being willing to do whatever your loved one tells you to do.

I think I might be too close to the situation to see the big picture. So, can you tell me what being a submissive means to you?
 
I am very confused and frustrated. I've spent the evening surfing the internet, reading, trying to find a definition of submissive that would help me. It seems like everything I've found assumes that I *know* what a submissive is, but it's not as clear cut for me. For one thing, I thought that submissive meant that you had to allow yourself to be beaten/flogged/whipped, but I've seen a hint here and there of submissives who aren't into pain. They mention "service" but don't go into detail.

So what is the difference between that and my relationship with Easy? Am I a submissive and just didn't realize it?

I've not got a lot of experience in this field. Boyfriends before Easy were controlling, and in some cases there were fairly harsh consequences if I disobeyed. Perhaps what I've been seeing as normal and what everyone else does is not actually so. It would not be the first time I found out that what I'd been calling mainstream was actually anything but. I know that if Easy tells me to do something, in the bedroom, I just do it. I rarely say no, unless it triggers me or is painful.

(There's sexual abuse in my past. I worked really hard to be able to say no in the first place, and I won't give up that right. But Easy worked really hard to earn the trust that allows him unquestioning compliance in every other way.)

Easy knows everything that I know will trigger me, and naturally avoids it, but he also pushes his limits, which I don't argue with. Afterward, we discuss what happened and whether either of us wants it to happen again. Easy has never repeated something that I said I didn't like. He's been quite distressed when I said that something frightened or triggered me. He's good at taking care of me. Even in regular life, if someone is standing too close to me or touching me and it sets off my fear response, Easy will come stand between us or touch me to calm me down.

I'm sorry to anyone who has a headache because of me. This is tough for me. I really want to understand. In a way, life would be easier for me if I really was into BDSM, so I'm a little worried that I'm looking for things that aren't really there. I don't like pain. and I don't want to be whipped at all, and sometimes it triggers me. Some of the things I do with Easy used to trigger me, and would now if I did them with someone I didn't trust.
 
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MonoVCPHG said:
I can't relate to the social/community influences because I don't participate actively within that realm.
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DITTO!

BDSM is just a personal experience for me. If I was in a BDSM social setting without Redpepper, I would not act or be treated as submissive. I submit to one person and one person only.
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Ditto! (Mon, are you stealing things from my mouth on purpose?)
I'm Maca's sub. I'm not submissive to ANYONE else!

Derbylicious said:
I don't get why people expect that if you are submissive to someone then you're automatically submissive to everyone. Same thing with being dominant. Just because you enjoy the dynamic with one (or more) people doesn't mean that you feel the need to be the boss of everyone.
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Me either. Boggles the mind. It's a BIG deal in our lives, because I am quite certainly NOT submissive to anyone but Maca and I don't foresee that EVER changing.
Furthermore, we have in our boundary list the agreement that he may not demand I be submissive to anyone else. It's not optional. I am not submissive to ANYONE else for ANY reason.

Lemondrop said:
For one thing, I thought that submissive meant that you had to allow yourself to be beaten/flogged/whipped, but I've seen a hint here and there of submissives who aren't into pain. They mention "service," but don't go into detail.
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I'm one of those. Being submissive doesn't necessarily mean being beaten. It CAN mean that, but doesn't necessarily. S/M involves beating/pain. I apologize that I can't tell you which is which (sadistic/masochistic, pain receiver/giver). You CAN be D/s AND S/M, but you can also be S/M and NOT D/s or D/s and not S/M.



What is the difference between that and my relationship with Easy? Am I a submissive and just didn't realize it? I've not got a lot of experience in this field. Boyfriends before Easy were controlling and in some cases there were fairly harsh consequences if I disobeyed. Perhaps what I've been seeing as normal and what everyone else does is not actually so--it would not be the first time I found out that what I'd been calling mainstreaml was actually anything but. I know that if Easy tells me to do something, in the bedroom, I just do it. I rarely say no, unless it triggers me or is painful............ Easy knows everything that I know will trigger me, and naturally avoids it, but he also pushes his limits, which I don't argue with. Afterward, we discuss what happened and whether either of us wants it to happen again. Easy has never repeated something that I said I didn't like. He's been quite distressed when I said that something frightened or triggered me. He's good at taking care of me. Even in regular life, if someone is standing too close to me or touching me and it sets off my fear response, Easy will come stand between us or touch me to calm me down.
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Maybe you are naturally submissive with Easy. That's not a big deal. I have been naturally submissive with Maca. It doesn't HAVE to be labeled, Lemondrop. If it is and that makes you happy, great. If it's not and that makes you happy, great. Either way is moot.

I'm sorry to anyone who has a headache because of me.
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No headache here.

This is tough for me. I really want to understand. In a way, life would be easier for me if I really was into BDSM, so I'm a little worried that I'm looking for things that aren't really there. I don't like pain. I don't want to be whipped at all. Some of the things I do with Easy used to trigger me and would now if I did them with someone I didn't trust.
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Honey, BDSM is like polyamory. YOU define what YOU are willing to accept as boundaries for your relationship, whether it's what your poly boundaries are or what your BDSM boundaries are.

As a submissive,I make the rules of what I will or will not include in my D/s relationship. www.leathernroses.com has a lot of good articles, including information on some of the different POSSIBLE things that are or are not included in boundaries.
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Hey Lemondrop, no headache here either. We can be confused together. Go easy on yourself. Let the journey take you where it will. I'm starting to realize that BDSM isn't that different from any other kind of sexual relationship, in that it's all about what works for the people involved, and there isn't any kind of mystery or solid rules about it (although it sure would be easier in both cases if there were).

-Derby

P.S. Now I just have the task of figuring out what works for me. LOL
 
Oh my dear, if you want help, go check out the blogs in my signature! Seriously though, I love talking to you guys! It's so fun to be able to be playful and tease AND have serious, deep, heartfelt, eye-opening conversations with all of you! I've really missed you all these last few months.
 
So when are you coming to visit? And I agree about the conversations.
 
I don't know. :( I am SO bummed out about the dramatic nightmare that happened. I'm back in Alaska, moping. Hopefully we can get that figured out. I still have to get my stupid passport! :(
 
LovingRadiance said:
Honey, BDSM is like Polyamory-YOU define what YOU are willing to accept as boundaries for your relationship, whether it's what your poly boundaries are or what your BDSM boundaries are.
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Nicely put, LR. :)

The term submissive is not a label I associate with my place in any community. For me, it invokes a lot of the same reactions that I believe some poly people have towards the term secondary. When Redpepper says it to me in play it is erotic/desired and appropriate, for sure though. But in the BDSM community, labels are a clear way of communicating that I am for Redpepper and that I have no interest in dominating anyone.

For a moment, let's drop the labels and descriptions of BDSM. When we engage in play involving me being flogged or bound, it is therapy as well as trust-building. In this play the control and guidance of this process is primarily in the hands of Redpepper. She is the Therapist and I the patient. Unlike traditional therapy, I do not reward her with money. I reward her with greater trust and therefore, deeper love.

Just like with poly, labels only serve to communicate internal dynamics to the external community. For someone who doesn't identify with the community, they are essentially meaningless.
 
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Thanks, Mono. That helps a lot. I need to think about how that applies to me. I think you might have phrased that in a way that I can wrap my head around.
 
Interesting discussion. Lemondrop, you aren't at all frustrating. I love your questions.

Just so you know, though, a munch is a place to discuss BDSM and find like-minded people. It's not a place of play, usually. At least, I have never known that. I would be surprised if they weren't safe and didn't learn something useful. It's a shame you aren't all going, as it serves to demystify the whole thing, and if BDSM is to be a part of your life, a little demystifying could go a long way.
 
Well, I don't have any problem being a natural submissive to Easy and not worrying about anything else, but Asha is a masochistic submissive, and so I feel that more research is necessary to understand her needs and also to reassure myself that she won't be hurt. Some of the things that she enjoys are triggers for me, and I want to try not to be afraid that she's out there, somewhere, getting hurt. Well, you know what I mean-- in a bad way.

I contacted the local BDSM support group, and found out that we can all go have breakfast with them in a restaurant, so that is about the lowest-stress setting I can think of.

I talked to Asha today about my concern that she isn't getting her needs met, and she agreed that it was a big deal and she'd just been trying to push it to the back of her mind. I felt good that I hadn't just let this go! She would like to go to the support group meeting, and will go without Sunday if she has to. I'm going to try to talk him into it, though, because I think it's important to her. The support group also has a mentoring program, which I think would be great for Easy if he decides he wants to go further with being a dom.

I think I'm finally starting to understand what the "definitions" are. I can accept that they're fluid, but I kind of needed somewhere to start, you know? I'm sure I'll have more questions as I go.
 
redpepper said:
a munch is a place to discuss BDSM and find like minded people. Its not a place of play usually. At least I have never known that. I would be surprised if they weren't safe and didn't learn something useful. Its a shame you aren't all going as it serves to demistify the whole thing and if BDSM is to be a part of your life, a little demistifying could go a long way.
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Redpepper, I knew that it said that it was just a get-together, but I guess I've known an awful lot of predators and not an awful lot of people in the lifestyle. I could picture a situation that was supposed to be safe, but where someone could pressure Asha into something she wouldn't necessarily want to do. It actually happened to her just before we became a quad. She admitted just today that she has trouble saying no. So funny, coming from someone who's usually very assertive and knows what she wants.
 
I sent a note to the moderator of the local BDSM group mentioning that I was polyamorous, and I haven't heard from her since. Did I mess up? I'd really like to take Asha to the get-together this Friday or the next, which I just found out about, but now I'm scared that they won't approve of us. What should I have said? Would it be better if I just said that Easy is our Dom and we're both subs?
 
Lemon, you are so sweet, and such a worrier. ;)

Maybe the mod is busy? I don't know, but if they can't accept who you REALLY ARE, then you wouldn't want to be dealing with them anyway, you know?

I'm SO glad that Mon was able to put that in a way that made sense for you. I read what he wrote and it's meaningful to me, too. I just don't really care what people call me.

Somewhere on here is a thread about what you label yourself, or some such, and I think I wrote (my only post to that thread) something along the lines of "nothing," or "whatever I feel like."

I think it's important to remind ourselves the the purpose of labels is to express a concept to someone else. Therefore, the label itself has to be one that we and they have a mutual understanding of, in regards to what the heck it means, or we aren't communicating the concept to them that we intended ANYWAY.

Poly-D/s-BDSM-sexuality, they are all alike in that the definitions can be WAY different to different people, so it's helpful to talk about the details behind what you mean to ensure that you and they have the same idea of meaning prior to using the labels.

When I'm talking to new people I generally just tell them, "This is my family, Maca, GG, Mimi, kids," because trying to use a word can be confusing. Once we've established a common understanding, then I can identify each of those people in regards to their relationship to me.

Likewise in regards to new people asking me why I do some action that they find odd, which is a D/s thing in my life, I just tell them, "M and I have an agreement." If they are around long enough and become close enough to warrant a deeper understanding or knowledge, then I will explain to them that this is part of our D/s relationship. How far the explanation goes depends upon how pertinent it is. GENERALLY, it's not very pertinent at all to them, it's just between Him and me. But, for example, some things are quite pertinent to GG, so he has access to ALL of that information, and WHY. ;)

Keep asking questions, my friend. I think it helps keep the rest of our minds working! ;) I really enjoy talking with you!!!
 
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