Becoming non monogamous-Jealousy, Fear, Envy, insecurity

[nycsinger2000]

I wonder if anyone can give me some helpful advice. I have spent most of my life being one of those people who is extremely against open relationships. I know now, that it's more because of my fears and upbringing than anything. When I was 36 I met and fell in love with a guy who was 22. He is bisexual and I am gay. I knew there were a lot of odds against us. The age difference alone was a lot to handle but he was also a bit of wild child. He enjoys drugs, has a more experienced sexual past than I did and was very open minded to things my mind was closed off to. Monogamy is not a need for him. It's actually quite the opposite. I won't say that I haven't been in other relationships where I wanted to sleep with other people, but I will say that with him I pretty much never had that desire and the idea of someone else so much as touching him, gave me a sinking pain in my gut. We started dating monogamously, ended up living together and The bond we shared was more beautiful than anything I'd ever experienced. He got me out of my shell in many ways, He was the best sexual experience I've ever had in my life, I instinctively wanted to protect and care for him, and the love I felt from him was more intense than anything I've ever felt. Four years later, we were both struggling. Our sex life suffered, he missed being with women and I am not versatile and have a tendency to get uptight in bed at times. He suggested having occasional threesomes (I enjoy women sexually at times) but I wouldn't hear of it. We knew we were still deeply in love but he felt like he hadn't lived life and hadn't had a chance to stand on his own two feet. I didn't want to let him go but I knew that holding on to him would only make things worse. We broke up moved out but couldn't stay away from each other. When he finally slept with another man I lost it and we stopped speaking for months. We both tried to hate each other or blame each other, but the moment we came into contact again that all just melted away. I won;t say everything was perfect when we were together. he was terrible in many ways, but hes grown significantly since the breakup. He;s learning to see how his actions affect others.

I know that if we ever officially get back together it will have to be open or possibly even poly. Hes not completely sure yet if he just needs sexual freedom or the ability to have relationships with multiple partners.. Although I don't have any need for an open relationship, I recognize his need. We have started casually seeing each other again, with no labels or commitment at this time. I've been working very hard at looking at myself and why I've always needed monogamy. I'm a very good looking man, I look and seem a lot younger than I am. I have a lot of other things going for me but I had a rough childhood. I was made fun of, beat up, told that I was wrong for being gay, struggled with eating disorders and now continue to battle with anxiety, insecurity, fear of loss and Envy as a result. I have dealt with theses things a lot and in normal circumstances, I'm now a pretty confidant person. This experience has shown me that for one, I not only have to, but I want to allow him to be his own man, but I need to tackle these issues more than I ever have. Being single alone has shown me that being gay in NYC, there will always be a possibility that I will end up feeling deeply for men who don't want monogamy and commitment at all may be something most people aren't ready for for a very long time. My very need for monogamy may simply be a way to avoid having to deal with theses psychological issues I face.

So, with all this background established, I wonder if any of you can give me advice. I'm not looking for advice as to weather he and I should continue to pursue each other. I'm looking for advice as to how to deal with the issues I face.

Insecurity: I take care of myself and workout regularly but I am not disciplined enough to have a perfect gym body. I'm blessed with wonderful genetics that have kept me looking young and handsome, even now at 40 years old and I'm in basically very good shape. He seems to be attracted to muscular, masculine men. He's short and very thin and looks young. Although I am personally attracted to him, I've never felt like a daddy. I feel extremely inadequate by some of his choices. I can;t help but ask myself why he would want want me, when he's sleeping with men who are in model shape. I'm also threatened by them. I feel like men like that would only be attracted to him to feel some sort of dominant fantasy. I feel like he's being used even though I rationally know he's using them too. I don;t know how to take this lightly. I don;t know how to not feel like I'm not enough for him.

Envy: He's young, and beautiful and full of energy and I'm envious of that. I'm envious that he's getting attention from people who I feel would probably never look twice at me. I'm envious of his level of experience, His 28 inch waist he never had to work for and his talents that I don't posses

Fear of Loss: We are not committed right now, and not in a good place to make a commitment. I still want the chance for this to work out someday, even if it has to be open, but I fear he'll meet someone else who is more exciting and newer than me and I'll lose him for good. Protective nature: He was so young when met that my instincts to protect him took over. I am now forced to let him make his own choices and decisions without an ability to suggest what he should be doing. As much as I want him to be his own man, I'm still so afraid for his safety and his heart.

Tradition: I don;t know how to stop feeling like there's always someone else in our bed. I don;t know how to stop feeling like someone better than me is on his mind.

What I have learned: He's not me. He's a product of a very different generation that doesn't see sex as such a sacred thing. He is young and needs to experience things in his life that other people his age experience. I've learned to not take it out on him. I've learned to not take it personally or that he's doing any of this because he doesn't love me or care for me. In general weather it's about him or me, I want to know how to take sex more lightly. I was raised catholic. I've been in long term monogamous relationships most of my life. I have friends in happy open relationships that barely think twice about their partner having sex with someone else. I have other friends who enjoy being single and have several sexual partners they see regularly. I want to be able to know that I'm good at monogamy but don't have to be monogamous. Has anyone here, made this transition? What does it take to change your mindset? Am I hopeless in this case? Thanks for the help

 

[kdt26417]

Hi nycsinger2000,

You've already taken the first step towards accepting poly; namely, that you know it's something you want to do. I don't personally think that taking sex lightly is necessarily a part of the process, but you do need to take less of a possessive approach to your relationships. I also see that you have considerable insecurity about your body type. You need to be able to know that you are loved for who you are, so-called flaws included.

Maybe the next step is to try to express in words what you think when you feel like monogamy is better than polyamory; in other words, you need to know what the arguments are that you're trying to get past. If you can post some of that here, we can help with suggested responses to those arguments. For instance, "Polyamory is a way of avoiding commitment." That would be one kind of argument against poly, though I don't know if it's one of your arguments. See what else you can think of that makes poly feel wrong to you.

I see that you have much programming/conditioning from your youth to overcome. That will not be quick, simple, or easy. You will have to train yourself to think differently, to remind yourself of counterarguments that resist the anti-poly arguments you have.

As far as jealousy and insecurity are concerned, you can try these links:

Jealousy, Envy, Insecurity, etc.
How do you achieve compersion?

Jealousy and Insecurity
The Theory of Jealousy Management
The Practice of Jealousy Management

Jealousy and the Poly Family
Kathy Labriola: Unmasking the Green-Eyed Monster
Kathy Labriola: "First Aid" for Jealousy
Brené Brown: the Power of Vulnerability

Hope that helps for starters.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[nycsinger2000]

I have certainly decided that not letting go of this love is worth examining why I have always needed monogamy. I don't know yet if Polyamory is something I want. However, I can say that I know that my reasons for wanting monogamy in the past have not been based on positive emotional responses. I can also see the positive side of two partners not putting the pressure on each other to be everything for one anther and having the freedom to be who you are. Am I monogamous by nature? Probably not. It's just never been a question as to "This is what you do". Also, It has been easier than looking at myself and having to deal with all of the emotions I've avoided dealing with.

Since I'm someone who is good at resisting temptation for the greater outcome, it was something I've always been able to do even if there were times where I was tempted to pursue another person. So the question for me is not weather or not I want polyamory. I think I could go either way depending on the partner. With him in particular, I've very rarely had a desire to be with someone else. However, I'd be lying If I said there were not certain sexual acts that I've denied myself by being monogamous with him in the past. This is part of what I meant by "taking Sex Lightly" I've very rarely been someone who has enjoyed sex for the sake of sex. My mindset has always needed a strong emotional connection. with all that said, the real question is, am I strong enough to be polyamorous or can I become strong enough to be polyamorous?

As far as comparing myself to other people, I'm trying to look at it from a different point of view. He clearly has an attraction to men with muscular gym builds. Some have simply been one night stands and others are "Friends". He also has many other sexual desires that I am not able to fulfill for him. I do agree that it's vital that he continue to let me know that he finds me desirable and attractive in light of this. I'm trying to more openly asses my own needs and desires that he is unable to or unwilling to fulfill and physical types that I'm attracted to that may or may not be different than him. I guess I'm sort of a marter. I've always felt that I should sacrifice my own needs for the sake of the monogamous relationship. I haven't completely figured out how to embrace what I could get from this yet.

I don't really have any anti poly arguments. When I was very young I may have seen it as wrong but I don't anymore, its just not something I ever thought I could do, especially with him. I will agree that I am unfortunately somewhat possessive when it comes to him. How could I not be? I've never loved anyone like this. I fought very hard to keep this relationship together
and don't want to lose him. I'm finally starting to see that I want him to be happy and I want us to be happy together, even if that means I have to suffer through some of the most difficult challenges and soul searching of my life. Hearing him tell me certain things about other people, and forcing myself to not take any anger or resentment out on him has not been easy. However I refuse to do that. If this is what he needs, I can only search deep within myself to see if it's something I can also embrace, otherwise Neither of us will be happy and neither of us is happy when we aren't romantically connected to one another.

We have not re established a formal commitment. Neither of us thinks it would be a good Idea until we are sure we're on the same page and know that we can make this work. Polyamory is new to him too. All he really knows is that he's never had a need for sex or romantic love to be tied to one person only, but he also admits that he's never truly been in love with anyone but me. He may end up being someone who wants more of an open relationship where he is able to have one night stands or friends with benefits. We both still have a lot of soul searching left to do. When and if that happens, I know it will be a big step in making me feel comfortable. If people are aware that I'm his primary partner and he is mine I will feel more secure. However, I think agreeing to that before we both are sure if we can do it or knowing exactly how we should do it, is imperative before taking that step.
.

 

[kdt26417]

Well, I'll quote Sting: "If you love someone, set them free." How can you incorporate that into your life and love relationship?

 

[Magdlyn]

Welcome singer! I'm a bi-pansexual woman of 60, loving and living with a bi-pansexual woman in a 7 year polyamorous relationship. I hope my insights help you. I see several areas you can work on. Breaking it down:

First of all: your Catholic Christian upbringing. It causes you to put others first, and to be a "martyr." Of course, many Catholic saints were martyrs. It's considered a good to put God/Jesus first, others second and self last. Not all that healthy. Sure, it's good to be kind, but if you don't take care of your own needs first, you run dry and have nothing to give to others. I don't know if the Christian god is still important to you (I think "He" has had his time, personally), but surely you can take care of yourself and not always think of your bf.

Next, if you've let Catholicism go (because you're gay, or for other reasons, there are plenty) try to let go the "morality" you were brainwashed with as a kid. It's possible to be moral and atheist, or pagan, or whatever.

Next, your body image, and tendency to compare yourself to younger men, or those that have more time and motivation for the gym. The evidence bodies don't matter to your bf as much as you seem to think: he loves you, and has never loved another. Beauty is only skin deep. I'm OK looking for 60, I am somewhat full figured, and yet have no trouble feeling attractive to my 38 year old petite gf, and to the many men (and 2 other women) I have dated since becoming poly. I get laid a lot, and complimented too. You don't need to be model perfect to be lovely. And when you get right down to it, the old cliche that looks are only skin deep is true.

My gf is 38, my current bf Punk is 41. They are not model thin (though they once were, and so was I! in our teens and 20s!), and they do have to work to keep their weight down. So will your bf, some day. Once we hit 35 our HGH goes away, and there goes the waistline! So try not to stress about it, if you can. Let it float away, the self judging.

Next, feeling protective and possessive because your bf is young. Kids need to make their own mistakes and have all kinds of adventures, sexual and otherwise. It's just part of growing up, and in the end, it's healthy. Some people settle down too young, and regret it forever. You'd be doing your bf a kindness to let him explore others, and figure out if he's polysexual, polyamorous, or just young and horny... Personally I am polyamorous and "old" and horny lol!

Next, sex as sacred. I am Pagan, a goddess worshiper, and sex is sacred to me. Very! It is also great fun and a great stress reliever. I can just have "sacred" sex with more than one person. I find the Oneness I feel with one of my lovers, that breaks down the illusion of duality, is very important to me. I don't need to be mono to have sacred sex. Sex was a sacrament in ancient Goddess based religions,and it was not monogamous sex. Christianity has profaned it and shrunk its importance and utility. (By the way, I do not have group sex. I mean, I have, but not in several years now. It lessens the sacred for me. Others may feel differently.)

Enough for now. I hope this helps, and I hope venting here and others' opinions help too!

 

[nycsinger2000]

Magdlyn

thank you so much, this is very helpful. It's hard for me. My partner has many friends who are poly or open or just very open minded. They've help him to understand and be even more comfortable than his instincts already are. I really have no one who understands, which leaves me to bring these things to him. Although I think it's important to discuss things openly and honestly. I don't want to put pressure on him or the relationship. I went to his new apartment for the first time last night and saw his condoms and lube on the nightstand, and it freaked me out a little. He knew something was wrong and he was great about it but there's nothing he can really say to make me figure out how to be more comfortable. My friends either tell me to just get over it, as if that were easy or to get over him and continue a string of monogamous relationships that end because the only reason I get into them int the first place is because they are monogamous.

I'm not religious at all anymore. Spiritual and overly romantic but not religious, especial not catholic. I do believe all of this is conditioning but how does someone move past what they've always been told to believe? When I came out it was different. I was told it was wrong, but something in me told me It was right, I was gay and couldn't change it. When I did come out it was exciting because I knew it would give me the opportunity to find love.

I can't get disturbing thoughts of other men touching him out of my mind at times( women don;t bother me quite as much), Other men bringing him more pleasure than I do, or even the idea of something random, and sexually passionate like a one night stand. It's not like I haven't done these things myself. I guess, for one I haven't been with anyone else who really excites me yet, and I'd pretty much always rather be with him. I'm trying to branch out and meet other guys who I think are really "hot" or who I may have the potential of having some serious emotion for, but I just think I'm holding myself back from actually letting any of that happen.

I'm not unhappy with the way I look, I'm actually pretty happy with it, but there are certain qualities in others that still intimidate me and make me insecure. I've always gotten a lot of attention for my looks, and I'm bit of a perfectionist with everything so it's not easy to sooth my ego, when my mind rationalizes another person as being better than me. You are right. He loves me. My mind is still in a place where the habit of thinking "If he loves me why does he need anyone else?" and to be honest, I'm still in a habit of thinking that for myself. I'm trying to break that habit. I've never really done single. I had two years where I was single and in those years, I hooked up a bit but was really always looking for a relationship. I've only had intercourse with ten men and three of them were long term partners. Hooking up become not such a big deal after awhile but going "All The Way" has always been a big thing in my mind....I sound like a 14 year old girl

I get horny a lot but I don;t usually need anything other than him or porn lol. Although I will say, there a few guys in those porns Id be excited about if they hit on me in a bar, so maybe I do really need to try and meet some guys who are more "My Type". I do understand his need to explore at this age and his need to not be tied down to someone who it's very easy to turn to when he isn't sure how to stand on his own two feet and "Grow Up" I just don't know yet how to make it less painful for me, but I'm getting there.

Thanks again for your reply, it was very helpful.

 

[GalaGirl]

You sound like you are trying to figure out if you are

• monoamorous + monogamous (love 1 sweetie + prefer romances to come in a 1:1 shape)

or

• monoamorous + poly friendly (love 1 sweetie, could be in either a 1:1 shape or a poly V shape or similar)

or

• polyamorous + poly friendly (love more than 1 sweetie + could be a polyamorous configuration of some kind

You also sound like you are trying to figure out what “committment” means to you and how it will be expressed and measured if not done in the "old way" – where commitment means “dating nobody but me” and is expressed by limiting oneself to you.

To me feelings ensue after action behavior or thinking behavior. This bit?

I feel extremely inadequate by some of his choices. I can;t help but ask myself why he would want want me, when he's sleeping with men who are in model shape. I'm also threatened by them. I feel like men like that would only be attracted to him to feel some sort of dominant fantasy. I feel like he's being used even though I rationally know he's using them too. I don;t know how to take this lightly. I don;t know how to not feel like I'm not enough for him.

Reads out of order to me. I also notice you using the word “feel” interchangely with “think.” It could sound a bit persnickety but I suggest you might want to leave “feel” for actual emotions, and use “think” for your thoughts in order to be more clear in your own mind.

To me that quote above could be reordered like this... and I quote just to block it off visually. Blue comments mine:

Situation: When I know he's sleeping with men who are in model shape?

• Behavior: I compare myself to some of his choices.
• Behavior: I ask myself why he would want want me.
• Result: I think I am extremely inadequate.

• Behavior: I think men like that would only be attracted to him to feel some sort of dominant fantasy.
• Behavior: I think he's being used.
• Observation: I also know he's using them. (<---He tells you this?)
• Result: I feel threatened by (my thoughts about) them.
• Result: I don't know how to take this lightly. (<--Take WHAT lightly? That he uses men? Sex? Something else?)

I don't know how stop thinking I'm not enough for him.

When you are able to organize your thoughts that way – behaviors first, then feelings that ensue? You can see more clearly that some of your own thinking behavior is causing a part of your discomfort.

You could stop comparing yourself to the other partners.
You could accept he's picked you out and stop stressing WHY he's picked you out.

I wonder why you make it about "you are not enough for him" rather than evaluating if HE meets YOUR standards for a dating partner?

You could move on to address the using people thing. Are you happy with a partner who uses people? Even if he is not using you?

If you view and value sex as something sacred, and he views sex as a means to get to know people? You don't HAVE to learn to take sex lightly. The solution is for you to be ok having different POVs if you are going to be together. Or not to be together if it is a point where you two are simply not compatible because you prefer to date people who share your POV.

The other part of your discomfort seems to be you taking it personally rather than taking it situationally.

No, you are not enough for him if he wants polyamory. You can be the most wonderful guy in the world, and I am sure you have great qualities. But what you are not is TWO guys. You cannot turn yourself into TWO guys. And if he wants more than 1 sweetie, you can be one of those sweeties, but you cannot be both. Because you are NOT two guys. It is a Limit of the Universe.

Does that mean you are “less than”? NO. You have value, worth, and dignity. You simply cannot be 2 people. You are 1 person.

You are struggling with a core belief. It comes up in your writing:

My mind is still in a place where the habit of thinking "If he loves me why does he need anyone else?" and to be honest, I'm still in a habit of thinking that for myself. I'm trying to break that habit.

Could this help you sort out core beliefs or jealousy any?

http://www.kathylabriola.com/articl...nster-managing-jealousy-in-open-relationships

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/Jealousy_Updated_10-6-10.pdf

Could stop focusing so much on what he needs. Let that be HIS look out. Focus more on what YOU need. What do you need to feel good in a relationship? What are your preferences/standards? Does he meet those preferences/standards or not?

In the end, if it turns out to be a case of “trying to shop at the wrong store” because you really you like monogamy best? Be ok liking monogamy best! There's nothing wrong with wanting that.

You are allowed to have your preferences for your relationship shapes and for how you view sex.

It could also be a case of "wrong time."

There are many “right ones” for you out there. You just don't meet them all at the “right time” and it could be a case of this guy being a good potential, but you met at a time of life where he's still really young and wanting to be "explore-y" in style and you are older and want something more “stability” in style.

There is NOTHING wrong with either. It's just that you guys don't line up. Wrong time of life.

Galagirl

 

[Magdlyn]

I agree with GG that you need to look at the shape of your relationship with your bf. Does it meet YOUR needs for intimacy, frequency of dates, fun things to do (other than sex), comfort and support during life challenges, frequency and quality of sex, sharing of life things such as household maintenance (who cooks, who cleans up after themselves in the kitchen and bathroom, etc etc)? Does he respect you when you are sharing your vulnerabilities? Does he spend a lot of time chatting with others on his phone when he is supposed to be with you? Does he spend more time catting around, and less time with you, than you'd like?

I get the idea your bf maybe overshares about his sex and fun with others. Would you prefer he not do that? Is there TMI about the sex he has with others? Would you rather he put his condoms and lube in a drawer before you go over? Some poly couples do not want to hear anything about their partners other dates, except, "We had sex, we used protection."

One thing I can offer from my experiences... happened a couple years ago. I had very limited jealousy of my gf's other partners over all the years we have been together. She and I had always had great respect for each other, and I developed compersion for her other relationships. I truly feel happy for her when she has fun on a date, and vice versa. We can both have girl talk about our other partners and just enjoy the details of each others' fun. We can support each other through our dating ups and downs too.

Then, I started a relationship with this one guy, and eventually my jealousy got to be quite bad over his dating practices. I drove myself nuts wondering why I had jealousy and envy with him, and not with my gf.

The first year, things were fine. He was married but had no other partners for our first year together. I met the wife a few times, things were fine, I didn't mind hearing about her, etc. We had frequent great sex, we went on fun dates, we cuddled, we shared interests.

Then my gf and I decided to move in together, and chose to move from our respective cities to my bf's part of the state. (She and he were FWBs, emphasis on friends, but they had sex now and then.) It made sense to move nearer him. We found a house in the next town over.

No sooner did we move to be closer, than he started drawing away. It was like, he hooked me, idealized and love bombed me the first year. Once I was more available, and we could be even more involved in each others' lives, he pulled away and started to devalue me. Classic narcissist.

He started vigorously dating others (and stopped taking me out), swimming in NRE with one after another. He finally found a married MF couple new to poly, who lived nearby, and "fell in love" with the wife. He was having sex with both of them, but the husband had jealousy, they broke up and got back together 3 times. They had awkward 3somes. It also didn't help my bf was now experiencing ED with me, and started to be really disappointing in sex. Yet still had sex with the other two.

I didn't know what to do. If he didn't talk about them, I imagined the worst. If he did tell me about them, I'd get upset at the details. They'd have a breakup, he'd whine and bitch to me about them, say it was best they broke up, then they would get back together 3 days later and he'd gaslight me when I brought up how he said the breakup was a good thing, mock me and say, "Oh you just don't know the depth of our feelings for each other." It was all very high school and undignified and petty.

I was upset at his NRE with these two. I tried to ride it out, but I just couldn't. He was neglecting my needs all over the map, and when I'd try and share why I was upset, he would literally scoff and laugh at my pain.

He also did stupid things, like this. We went to a garden party together. His couple was going to be there, it was my first time meeting the husband, the second time meeting her. It was a coolish day, but some little kids were swimming in the pool. My bf and his couple were the only adults who got in the pool. (This just struck me as odd, like they just had to get semi naked for each others' pleasure. The husband was also vigorously making out with his wife in the pool, feet away from the little kids. I think he was trying to turn my bf on, and had no thought or care for how inappropriate it was around the children.)

Anyway, when my bf took off his shirt he revealed 6 hickies on his left chest in a circle around his nipple. He and I had already had an issue with his gf sucking a huge purposeful hickey over an accidental one I'd left on his chest, and how I thought that was tacky, and now here he was, in public, in the pool with children, showing off 6 hickies. This is a 60 year old man. I thought it was so inappropriate and gross. But again, when I brought it up later, he scoffed at me. He told me those six hickies were an accident! As if.

When we left the party, as I drove him home, he kept going on and on about the couple, how he wanted to snuggle them, etc. Ugh. I felt like chopped liver.

This (probably too long) example is to show, sometime jealousy rears its head when you feel your partner is not respecting your needs and your relationship, but throwing his others in your face, and belittling you, and dissing you.

I figured out he was a Don Juan Narcissist. Google that, if you feel your bf's poly is just a way of getting narcissistic supply. My ex triangulated me with my gf. Playing us against each other. He did the same with this married couple. And I finally realised he'd done the same thing with 2 previous gfs he'd dated simultaneously. It's a common narcissist behavior.

And he'd laugh, not just at my pain, but at his previous 2 gf's pain, and also at his married couple's struggles around sharing him. He liked being in between two people. It would make him giggle when anyone was upset. If he was upset, it was the end of the world, but if anyone else was, it meant nothing to him but mild entertainment.

I might be totally off track. You might just be monogamous, and despite your love for your bf, trying to be in a mono/poly relationship just isn't for you. I just wanted to give an example of how poly is EASY for me with my gf, but impossible with my ex bf. That party was just the last straw and I broke up with him days later.

 

[nycsinger2000]

It occurs to me that there are some things I should explain about myself. I have generalized anxiety disorder. Because of that I've spent most of my life leaning towards safety and security rather than trying something new. I tend to worry a lot, over analyze and think of a lot of terrible outcomes. I feel that this has severely clouded my judgement. I have a great therapist and manage my anxiety well, but when new things arise it can freak me out, especially if it involves someone I love or making a major change. I don't know if I am monogamous by nature and my Ex isn't entirely sure where he stands. For me, it's what I've been taught, through movies, music, my parents 45 year mono relationship, and religion that I no longer subscribe to. However, I know that everything I was taught would tell me I wouldn't want him anymore if he slept with someone else, that I would hate him, that I wouldn't be able to touch him without it feeling different or tarnished. It's been proven wrong. I still love him, I still want him, and I want him to be happy. Monogamy is easier for me, but to be honest, I've never been in a monogamous relationship where I didn't fear cheating or straying.. Being someone who has anxiety I have to force myself to learn to become comfortable with taking leaps, and facing things I fear. Yes, I could probably move on and meet someone else who is strictly monogamous. I've done that before and it ended up fizzling out. I was probably choosing partners who were wrong for me simply because they wanted the same relationship style. You have to have some give and take in life, and all I know is that he's done just about everything I thought would make me stop loving him and I haven't. I'm asking myself why I need monogamy and I have no answers that are grounded in actual substance. I believe its fear and conditioning.

He knows that he is more open sexually than I am, that he is far less bothered by the thought of me sleeping with someone else( although it's not 100% easy for him either) than I am with him and he knows that he often feels an attraction and chemistry towards someone else that feels loving or just sexy and wants the freedom to act on it. He's starting to understand the difference between love and infatuation and he knows that he loves me. He's not sure yet if he's poly or just wants some openness. We are both learning to live as individuals for the first time and working on ourselves. If and when we do officially get back together it won't be until we're both sure that we're on the same page. He also wants to be able to have some fun and make out with his friend s if that situation occurs.

We are both figuring this out and we're finally in a place where we're figuring it out together. He hasn't shared more information than I've asked for. I've been taking it slow. We started with a don't ask don't tell policy and I have slowly asked him for some information to get me slowly used to things. I don't want this to bother me. I want to be able to discuss our lives openly. I want to see his other sexual partners as I would any other friend of his, and not be threatened by it. Finding the lube and condoms was an accident.. He's just not the kind of person who would have thought to hide it. I tried not let him see my reaction but he got it out of me. I simply told him that I saw it and it was just causing me a little anxiety. He reassured me by telling me it(sex) hasn't happened in a long time, to which I told him he owed me no explanations and that this was my issue to get passed not his. He held me in his arms, told me he loved me and that I was brave. since we've started seeing each other again, hes been more sensitive to my needs than ever. He told me the other day that he's moving slowly because he wants to "Get this right with me this time".

We both made mistakes while we were together. I was overbearing because I could see that he enjoyed attention and affection from others and it scared me. I've only known one set of rules for a serious relationship. So he felt imprisoned and controlled and I felt controlled and unappreciated. Now that those patterns are changing and we are starting to learn how to give each other what the other needs and compromise, it's more loving than ever. I'm proud of the positive changes he's making and every day I see him becoming more of a man, more kind and sensitive to others than I've ever known him to be.

Do I need non-monogamy with him at the moment? No. It's always easier to avoid anxiety then to face it. I'm extremely attracted to him on many levels and I'm kind of specific about what I'm attracted to. I rarely meet other people I find as attractive as him. however, I'd be lying if I said they aren't out there. I'd also be lying if I said I didn't have sexual fantasies, needs and desires that he can't fulfill alone. I like couples, I like oral sex and he doesn't, I like going to Disneyland every year and I like being there with someone I'm romantically connected to, He likes going but not every year. I can see the benefits of this. I get very lonely easily and crave affection. It would be nice to have others to fill that need at times so I don't have to put pressure on him to spend all his time with me. and infringe on his need for freedom and independence.

For now, I'm not giving myself yeses or no's. If I cannot handle being in an open or poly relationship than we won't get back together. However I know I'll always love him and even if we don't get back together and I do look for monogamy, I still want him in my life. Weather or not we get back together, this is something I need to become more comfortable with. I appreciate everything all of you have to say. I'm really not looking for answers like "Maybe you're just monogamous" I know that possibility is still on the table, but I've never done enough soul searching to ask myself if I need that, because it's all I've ever known, or if it's simply my nature. I'm doing that now. What I'm trying to figure out, are the best ways to deal with the anxiety and thoughts that go along with knowing that I'm not the only person he shares his body with.

I'm experimenting. I need to find more men that are "my type" and see if I can understand the benefits of this. I'm trying to open my mind to new sexual experiences and deal with anxiety as it comes rather than letting it build up. I don't let myself be free enough and it's time to start.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi nycsinger2000,

It sounds like you are trying to find out whether poly is right for you. I commend you for your courage and your candor. Poly is not right for everyone, but you don't want to just subject yourself to your childhood conditioning either.

We'll be happy to help in any way that we can.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[nycsinger2000]

I found a picture of him with another guy and I'm having a panic attack

Please keep in mind that we are not officially back together but have been seeing each other again for several months.

a couple of days ago he had been planning to go to a party. It's a monthly rave that he attends with a group of friends. I know about the parties and I know that he's very affectionate with his friends and they often make out.

He mentioned that he wanted to have an all day hangout session/ party the next day and wanted me to come but wasn't sure if I'd be "Ready For it" I asked who would be there that I may not be comfortable with and he mentioned someone he'd already told me about named Rob. He and Rob have a friends with benefits situation that he pursued before we started seeing each other again. I've gotten used to the Idea of him and although meeting him would not be easy, I felt somewhat prepared for it.

I asked if there were anyone else and He said that his friend Alex and he had "Sort of a flirty thing". When I asked if they had slept together he refused to answer. He said he didn't think he should have to give me that information because he's "Single" and I wouldn't ask him for that information if he were anyone else I'm dating. I didn't push it. I simply told him that it's somewhat unusual for people who are dating to be in the same room as other people he's dating or sleeping with and that it would make me more comfortable to prepare myself beforehand so I know how to deal with my anxiety. He still refused to give me the information.

I accepted it and told him I wasn't sure that It could handle it yet but would consider it. this morning I found a picture of them together at the rave. I imagine they were doing drugs (mdna). He was standing in front of the camera with Alex behind him, both of them were shirtless. Alex is another muscle guy and not a usual part of this group of friends.

It's obvious or I'm assuming from the information I've gathered that he invited Alex to the party and told him he could stay over at his place (He was going to be at the all day party the next day so I'm sure that was the plan) I'm sure he's in his bed with him right now while I'm alone in mine.

I have so many things going through my head. I'm angry that he refused to tell me. This is exactly the reason. I knew I'd see something that would clue me in as to the nature of their relationship and I'd much rather had heard it from him. I'm jealous that this other guy is with the person who was mine for so long. I feel like a loser. He and I haven't even had full on intercourse since we started seeing each other again and I'm sure he's sleeping with Alex. I feel unattractive and like all he cares about is someones body and My body isn't like that. I fell old because most of the people he's been seeing are young. I feel unloved. I'm panicking and can;t get it to stop.

 

[Leetah]

I'm sorry you had to start your day in such a painful way. I have had similar shocked but not too surprised feelings.

You know your Love's attitudes and habits so all that you suppose may be so, but keep in mind that all that emotion is coming from your own chain of thoughts with no reality check (though perhaps by now you have spoken to him and know the facts). They are your thoughts and it is possible to put a different chain of thoughts together that do not torture you so.

I also have always been very monogamous until I met my Significant Other and found I was in love with two people. At the same time I am not interested in pursuing other relationships and I doubt I ever will.

My SO is almost a decade younger than I and at a different stage of life so there is a good possibility that we will not be able to make this work forever. I don't want to hold him back from pursuing his ideal life but I have no good idea how to combine some of his realities with mine. We have been willing to make great changes and sacrifices to be together but there may come a point where our paths just have to diverge.

One of the sayings that I have found courage in is "All relationships end. Longevity itself is not a sign of a good, successful, relationship." If, eventually, we cannot make it work then we cannot, but our relationship has already given me so much that I do not think I could ever call it a failure.


Leetah

 

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you are struggling and having a panic attack.

BREATHE. Unclench any tight muscles. Slow down the racing brain. Take a walk, clean something. When the emotional flooding is over?

When you are ready to review thoughts?

FWIW? How it seems to me? An outside party with no emotional investment here?

1) You were invited to a party situation you weren't sure you could handle.

You wanted to know if you were going to bump into any of his lovers there so you could go prepared and not be blindsided at the event. Do your anxiety management and so BEFORE attending.

Sounds like you want up front transparency in this relationship. And a willingness on his part to be a partner that works things out with you.

Totally reasonable wants.

So you did your end of the stick. You ask for more info about things that concern you.

2) He got huffy and acted out at you.

Instead of doing active listening and seeing that you were trying to be more comfortable? He made it be about himself. He went all "righteous anger on you." Then he went all attack-y so HE could be the "injured" party. Like you are somehow being "unfair" to him, expecting "impossible" things you do not expect from others.

That's changing the spotlight off his behavior and trying to shine it on you and yours. A good way to make you doubt yourself. Dude is a slippery fish.

If he didn't feel like it, all he had to do was say "Yes, sex partners there. No, not willing at this time to tell you who is who."

He said he didn't think he should have to give me that information because he's "Single"

No, he doesn't if he's single and not dating you and not looking to share sex with you. Not your business at all because it will not affect your sex health.

Yet here he is... dating you and presumably seeking to be lovers with you again. So... yeah. His sex practices COULD affect your sex health if you hook up with him.

It is fair for you to ask some basic questions like

• How many active lovers right now, how many in recent past.
• What he does about STD testing and condoms and so on.

That helps you assess YOUR risk before you take up with him sexually.

You also might want to know who they are because you don't want to be hanging out with his sex partners. You are allowed to pick who you will and will not hang out with.

3) You are angry with his behavior.

I'm angry that he refused to tell me. This is exactly the reason. I knew I'd see something that would clue me in as to the nature of their relationship and I'd much rather had heard it from him.

He's allowed to say "No." I think you are angry with HOW he said no -- this attack-y kind of way. I think you might have been ok had he taken a different approach than pitch a fit at you.

He COULD have taken a compromising approach that address BOTH your needs. Something like...

"I'm not ready to share the full who is who yet. Def not before or at this party. My brain is full of party hosting things.

What I most want is for you to meet my FWB Rob. If doing that at this party scene is too stressful, how about just coffee with Rob? Could that work for you?

I see you want to talk. How about we set a different date to talk about fully disclosing lovers lists and practices? Maybe do some other coffee things rather than just dumping you cold turkey at a party thing?"

He could work with you in helping to make you comfortable while at the same time meeting his own need to not do the full disclosure thing just yet.

Behave in responsible fashion and not have a cow at you.

You want him to behave in up front, direct, transparent fashion and like someone who is a partner that works with you rather than overloads you. And someone who doesn't overload HIMSELF and then blows up at you.

If he declined your request to disclose right then with

"No, I am not willing."
"Yes, willing, but not able at this time. How about on ___?"

That is digestible because he's at least respectful about it.

But it's a double bummer when he pitches a fit at you. Not respectful at all!

4) Instead of being ok being angry with his poor behaviors? You turn the anger inward and start picking at yourself.

Why do this? Are you not comfortable feeling anger? You don't know how to express anger appropriately?

Instead of thinking "Hmmm.... maybe this guy is just not up to my standard because he is emotionally immature in how he deals with things?"

You turn it inward and start picking at yourself. I think that changed it from a disappointing situation to a panic attack because YOU decided to attack yourself.

I'm jealous that this other guy is with the person who was mine for so long. I feel like a loser. He and I haven't even had full on intercourse since we started seeing each other again and I'm sure he's sleeping with Alex. I feel unattractive and like all he cares about is someones body and My body isn't like that. I fell old because most of the people he's been seeing are young. I feel unloved. I'm panicking and can;t get it to stop.

I think you are going to have to learn to evaluate people's behavior leaving it there on their plate -- "do they meet my standard for how I want to be treated or not?"

Instead of taking it on board for yourself like it's a measure of YOUR value.

Rather than using these disappointing moments as a chance to self-flagellate and "gather evidence" of your un-loveableness?

You could learn to assess where the break down in communication happened and try again.

Or if you are fed up and this is getting old? Take it more like "Nope. This is not a match here. Not a runner." and learn to move on WITHOUT beating yourself up about it.

5) Are you self sabotaging on purpose?

You broke up with this dude for a reason before. You guys just don't seem to be a good fit.

Yet you keep on trying to date him. I get that you want to see if you can be poly, but why not pick more compatible poly person to do it with that DOES treat you how you want to be treated?

Are you engaging in self sabotage here? You want to reinforce a core belief of "I'm a loser" so in YOUR behavior you go date a guy that is not a match so you can fight with him so you can self bully you and "gather the loser evidence?"

That's a weird "win" for you -- doesn't sound like happy living to me.

I hope that is not what is happening here.

Galagirl

 

[nycsinger2000]

I do appreciate this but I'm still in love with him and he's in love with me. I agree that he's stubborn and guarded at times. I also know that I'm anxious, insecure and possessive at times. He's a flawed human being just like I am. He is trying to become a better person and it shows often, just not all the time. If it were easy or even possible for me to just move on I probably would but this bond is so strong and at times so beautiful that I want to make it work if we can. I've chosen the wrong partner so many times just because that person was monogamous. I thought I'd hate him if he ever slept with another man but I don't. I still love him so much.