Biblical Christian Poly Living

Satisfiction said:
I have recently admitted my desire for polyamory to my husband. Ironically, I also recently started attending church again after a 7-year absence.
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Years ago, I dared to examine my interest in non-monogamy before I knew the word polyamory. I did this at the same time that I dared to examine my Christian beliefs deeply for the first time. I thought I was on two parallel tracks. I, too, thought it was ironic, as well as bizarre, if not downright perverted. I eventually learned that they were not two separate parallel tracks, but one integrated journey toward personal authenticity, a necessity of the spiritual search. So it never surprises me to hear from people dealing with polyamory and church/religion/spiritual issues at the same time.

I would say I express my spiritual self through Christianity, but not exclusively, as there are elements of natural-world paganish tendencies in me too.
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My husband likes to call this Christo-Pagan. Have you ever visited a Unitarian Universalist congregation? They are generally Pagan-friendly, so a Christian can talk out loud about their Pagan interests, and attend Pagan rituals as available.

This journey into polyamory is going to be an interesting one, and definitely something I will be keeping in the closet (unless directly asked) within the Christian community, for now.
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There are two UU groups I'd like to tell you about.

First is the group called UUs for Polyamory Awareness. Most UU ministers have heard of UUPA. I'm in leadership.
uupa.org

Second is UU Christian Fellowship, for people with an interest in liberal Chrisitianity. I'm a member.
uuchristian.org

Jasmine
 
Hi Satisfaction.

I think it should be said that the Unitarian Universalist Church is the one that Jasmine is involved with. It is very accepting of polyamory. Most other Christian churches are not at all accepting. I did a quick google search and there does seem to be a UU church in Auckland.

When I lived in Wellington, I went to St Andrews on the Terrace, which is supposedly Presbyterian, but they call themselves 'rainbow,' and they are about as accepting of diversity as you can get. I suppose this shows that there are liberal churches around, but you have to hunt them out.
 
Yay!! A place for me! My husband and I are Christians and just recently became a poly couple. I'm doing more of the research for now, as he is extremely busy with his work schedule.

As for me, I was raised in a born-again Christian family. I've been struggling, as have others, with my faith vs. my desire for an additional relationship within my marriage.

I look forward to reading the already suggested book, Divine Sex.

Thirsty for more information and hungry to meet others within this group!
 
gmskiter said:
I've been struggling, as have others, with my faith vs. my desire for an additional relationship.
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I'm glad you found this message board. I remember how I struggled when we first became poly. I spent months and months wrestling with my faith. Then I finally figured out that for me, becoming polyamorous was part of BECOMING-- of becoming more authentically the person God created me to be.

More books on the topic:

Sensuous Spirituality
Virginia Ramey Mollenkott (Author)

Dirt, Greed, and Sex: Sexual Ethics in the New Testament and Their Implications for Today
2007 edition
L. William Countryman (Author)

Sexual Liberation: The Scandal of Christendom
Raymond J. Lawrence Jr. (Author)

The Poisoning of Eros: Sexual Values in Conflict
Raymond J., Jr. Lawrence (Author)
 
Awesome!

This thread is very timely, though lacking a bit in information. But it really hits home with us.

My wife and I are Evangelical Christians, very involved in our church. We've been married for 18 years. I have struggled with what I now recognize as my polyamorous nature, while trying to be "good and proper." We have had some very hard conversations about this. My wife has agreed to open our marriage up.

I have found a beautiful and wonderful woman, who is also crazy about me. I would really love to bring our families together, though she is far away, at present. My wife is really struggling with resolving this idea with her faith, though, and feels as if she's not being Christian by being open in this manner.

I would love to hear from anyone willing to share how they have resolved this issue. Thanks, all.
 
JohnnyDangerously said:
My wife is really struggling with resolving this idea with her faith, though, and feels as if she's not being Christian by being open in this manner.
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At the heart of the issue is what it means to be a Christian, and this takes digging into Scripture, digging into one's soul, and peeling off the layers of expectations that church -- not faith -- has pasted on a person.

When Moses asked God whom he should say sent him to demand the release of the Israelites, God answered Moses, saying, "Tell them 'I Am' has sent you." I'm told a more accurate translation is "I Am Becoming."

Earlier in Genesis, we are told that God created humans in God's own image -- the image of I Am, and I Am Becoming. So we are called at our most fundamental level to be all of who we are, and to be open to change and growth. We are NOT called to be who someone else tells us to be, nor are we called to stagnate.

I had to wrestle with the "thou shalt not's." But they turned out to be speed bumps rather than road blocks. All the "thou shalt not's" were written for a specific population within a specific context. We don't live in that context.

Biblical adultery was a property crime in an age when women belonged first to their fathers and then to their husbands. Check out King David. David never committed adultery against his many wives. He only committed adultery against Bathsheba's husband -- because Bathsheba was Uriah's property. This understanding of women as property does not apply to me in 2012. So I have to listen to the intent of the law, rather than the letter, and figure out what it means in today's context. For me, it means consent and care and responsible behavior.

What then does Jesus tell us? Love God and love your neighbor. "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." --Matthew 22: 35-40

This is the essence of Christianity. To love God requires us to be whole and true and real and complete, in God's image. To love our neighbor requires us to put aside judgment and condemnation, and choose care and responsible behavior and consent.

As I find myself drawn to polyamory, I also find Christianity, at its truest essence, to be completely compatible the concepts. The challenge for me, then, is to practice it in a manner that incorporates my Christian essence: responsibility, care, consent, and keeping myself whole and true throughout.

Jasmine
 
Thanks for all the info. I am having to defend myself when people find out that I am Christian and polyamorous. The answer that I really never questioned God's love, and it feels right, doesn't go over well with some. :rolleyes: This helps. I will read and study in depth, so I can supply a more intelligent reply to the naysayers.
 
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artist103 said:
I would recommend you check out this site to help you understand where I am coming from.
http://www.libchrist.com/index.html
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Thank you for posting that link! I am not a Christian or religious. I believe in the Universe and LOA. I follow and compare what comes from the Christian church and other religions with what I believe, and what I hear or read. (There is always a tiny little truth in everything somewhere.)

I have a Christian friend, and somehow, I stumble over Christian stuff from time to time, since I know him. I suppose I like to be informed about all the options that a Christian life could offer, if a person is open to it.
 
I love Jesus

Being a Christian is a relationship with Jesus. I love Jesus. I love the fact that Jesus encourages me to love even when it’s not convenient.

The fact that Jesus was a Jew is as significant as the fact that I’m an American. My desire to love cannot be limited by the Constitution of the United States, the Bible or any other book or opinion.

The Bible is the words of men explaining their opinion of God. Jesus alone is the Word of God.

The Church is made of individuals who obey Jesus' command to love Him as God, and to love each other equally.

Religious organizations that take money are businesses. The Church is made of people who give love freely to each other.

My wife and I both love Jesus as our God. Neither of us has ever been monogamous. This is a second marriage for both of us. We both hid the truth from our former spouses that we loved others.

My wife has a male friend who, because he loves my wife, is one of my best friends.

We’ve determined that there is nothing inconsistent with Christ’s teachings and an open marriage. Having an open marriage means that we are extremely honest with each other about everything, especially love. To lie and deny that we love others would be extremely deceitful.
 
Revelatory

I had a bit of a revelation while I was out walking this evening. These are things I really struggle with: my faith and my sexuality. I was not raised to be poly. (Well, I wasn't raised to be anything, really.) But I found my faith in Jesus when I was 15 and have been learning and growing and struggling and stumbling along the way, ever since.

One of the things that was said to me once was that I was a 'David.' David was a man after God's own heart. So it says in the Bible. And David had multiple wives and concubines.

He loved the Lord God with all his heart, sang songs, and wrote poetry to God. He committed adultery. He broke one of the commandments. Yet even after that, he was considered a man after God's own heart.

Well, I am a singer. I sing and write poetry to God. I have danced before Him and felt like He was right there with me. I love Him; I have a relationship with Him.

I have committed adultery. I'm not proud of this. Now I choose to be honest with my feelings and desires, even if it is hard. And I am in love with two men, two amazing men who love me. I still don't know how that fits in with my personal faith and relationship with the Lord, but what I do know is He won't stop loving me, even if I do something the 'church' thinks is wrong.
 
Hey cool! I'm glad this thread got bumped!

Recently a very good friend of mine and Bear's accused us of having an adulterous relationship. Nice. Real nice. You can read about it over in Rhinestone Ramblings in PolyBlogs. :)
 
Adultery

I've read a lot of the posts on this website and I've yet to find anyone suggesting that it's okay to betray a commitment between a husband and wife.

The term adultery has evolved to mean any sexual interaction between two people who aren't married. For some reason, we always assume that adultery is restricted to sexual interaction. The root meaning of the word is "to corrupt."

We suppose that the most common causes for betrayal in marriage is sexual attraction, but from what I can tell, that's like putting the cart before the horse.

The corruption is the act of betrayal.

I know of many instances of corrupt relationships between people who strictly practice monogamy and practice a type of betrayal that far surpasses sexual unfaithfulness.

I’ve come to believe that if I can’t be honest with my wife about my sexual desires, I can’t be honest with her about anything, really.

I think open marriage and polyamory are a sincere attempt to not betray someone we love.

Jesus condemned immorality or illegal sexual activity. Again, I haven't read anything here that promotes illegal sexual activity. The last I knew, two people living together isn't illegal.
 
I'd like to have this conversation out here in the open instead of via pm and email. I think it's a subject that really needs to be explored, as there are probably a lot of Christians that practice polyamory.

And polygamy is starting to have some acceptance in mainstream society. It's only a matter of time before non-Mormon polygamists show up in churches.
 
Btw, I'm a church pianist and Bear is an ordained minister.
 
Shame

Open conversation about touching and sex is important for Christians. We, like Jesus was, are surrounded by religious hypocrites who are some of the worst perpetrators of sexual misconduct.

Victims of rape, sexual abuse or any traumatic abuse are broken from their spiritual connection with their own body.

The statistics on sexual abuse are pretty amazing. There are very few people who haven’t been offended to some degree or another.

Our desire to touch and be touched must have rules and boundaries for all of our protection.

The religious community has established rules that we are taught at a very early age that make touching one of the great taboos.

I recently found out that one of men’s greatest fears about sexual intercourse is that often times we ejaculate before our partner is ready to finish. The cure for pre-ejaculation is masturbation. Learning to masturbate routinely is healthy for men.

Just last month, my wife’s pastor preached vehemently about the evil of men masturbating, because it would mean, for the most part, that we’re masturbating while lusting. Of course, he made no mention of the importance of men learning to masturbate just for the sheer pleasure of touching themselves without external stimulation. So we're left with the usual shame about sexual pleasure.

We’re taught that the only sensual touching that is permitted is between a husband and wife. On so many levels, this promotes and fosters sexual misconduct. The religious community doesn’t take the time to get this issue right. It is not on the forefront, taking the lead, but instead preaches repression of education and understanding, as it does with so many important behavioral issues.

It’s left, as it always has been, to individual believers to love each other, deeply, from the heart.

I’m so happy all of you are here, other believers who want to experience what Jesus commanded-- loving each other as we would want to be loved; loving each other and ourselves proportionately and equally, without codependence, but with the knowledge that the most important issue for all of us to learn is to love and be loved.
 
The business of religion

Jesus didn’t say a lot about sex in general, and nothing at all about his own sexuality. Speculation about His relationship with the women in His life, and about John’s comments that he was the disciple whom Jesus loved is just that, pure speculation. I choose not to speculate. I’m comfortable that, of all the words written, the words attributed to Christ are the most scrutinized of all.

There are two passages that are thought to be erroneous: handling snakes, and the women at the well.

LUST
Desire for something that doesn't belong to us. Thinking of people as commodities is evil. When Jesus spoke of it, He connected it with stealing.

ADULTERY
Corruption of a marriage is forbidden, but Israelite and historic Jewish society was polygynous (one man could have many wives or concubines), so the marital status of the man was irrelevant. A concubine is generally a woman in an ongoing, matrimonial-like relationship with a man, whom she cannot marry for a specific reason.

EUNUCH
“For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

Jesus made it plain that being a castrated male is not a requirement to renounce marriage.

There is confusion regarding eunuchs in Old Testament passages, since the Hebrew word for eunuch also referred to other servants and officials who had not been castrated, but served in similar capacities
The Greek word is derived from eun, "bed," and ekhein, "to keep." A eunuch is ideally suited to guard the bedchamber of women.
KJV uses geld in place of eunuch.

Geld origin 1250–1300
1. to castrate (an animal, esp. a horse).
2. to take strength, vitality, or power from; weaken or subdue.

The NIV states a eunuch renounces marriage, not sexual intimacy. The KJV limits a eunuch to a castrated male incapable of sexual intimacy.

It’s commonly believed that dildos were created by eunuchs to carry out their duties.

MARRIAGE
According to Jesus, a temporary state of being that won’t exist in Heaven. Personally, I think marriage provides protection to a mother and her children. I think the prohibition is having children without the protection of marriage.

I don’t know of anyone who would think the advice to not thoughtlessly reproduce isn’t wise.

HOMOSEXUALITY
There is absolutely no reference to anything Jesus said about this issue.

Oftentimes Christ’s statement, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them,” is used to reinforce the Old Testament prohibitions of homosexuality, along with a myriad of other Old and New Testament instructions. For me, this is a huge trap. Men have used the words of the Bible to create a reality all their own. The debate over slavery and women’s rights comes to mind.

THE LAW OF THE PROPHETS
When pressed by a hypocritical religious attorney, Jesus summarized the law and the prophets this way:

“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the law and the prophets hang on these two commandments.”

I believe in Jesus as God, the only one who I will ever call Lord. These are the words I live by.
• You believe in God; believe also in me.
• Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.
• If you love me, keep my commands.
• Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching.
• No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or...
• He will be devoted to the one and despise the other.
• You cannot serve both God and Money.
• My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
• For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your Heavenly Father will also forgive you...
• But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
• Every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men...
• But the blasphemy against His Spirit will not be forgiven.
• "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."

THE RELIGIOUS COMMUNITY
I would rather have the battle to not allow anyone to take Christ’s place as God, not being sucked into being asked to be God and loving myself and my neighbor equally, than I would the conflict of making a living working for a religious organization.

Taking money in exchange for love is a hard pill for me to swallow. My love is a gift. It is not a commodity.

The greatest enemy, the opposite of Jesus,is materialism.

If I love only to be loved in return, is that really love?

If I love to receive money in return, doesn’t that make me a whore?

Isn’t that why the religious community killed Jesus, because He revealed the fact that they were religious whores?

Could it be that the hyper-interest of the religious community in delving carelessly into the personal lives of people they don’t know is a way to divert attention from their disobedience to His command that we hate materialism?

I am not a personal relationship. I am a commodity. Hmm... Where did that idea come from?
 
Thanks!

Great perspectives and info, not too far from my own thoughts. Personally, if there is no lying and everybody involved knows and consents, and you act in a spirit of love for each other, I don't see how it could be sinful. We are following the Golden Rule, loving your neighbor as yourself.
 
Thank you. There are many, many believers who are suffering needlessly because they equate Christ's condemnation of rape with being sensual. We end up desensitized to real abuse, and hating ourselves for our oftentimes feeble attempts at love, sort of the opposite of His command to love our neighbor as much as we love ourselves.
 
Hi, Boston. I just wanted to say that I'm in complete awe of the love and wisdom you have shared with us. May the Lord continuously bless you and your family.
 
Sorry to barge in here, not being Christian and all, but it utterly amazes me how the so-called "mainstream" christians are willing to condemn those that really do no harm to anyone, and, in fact, increase the love.

Many of you will have seen this quote, because it's been going around on the Interwebs recently, but here goes. It's about homosexuality, but it could equally be about polyamory or polygamy

"Some people say homosexuality is a sin. It's not. God is perfectly cool with it, and he feels the same way about homosexuality as he does about heterosexuality.

"Now you might say woo, woo, slow down, you move too fast. How could you have the audacity, the temerity to speak on behalf of God?

"Exactly, that's an excellent point, and I pray that you remember it."

(Ted Alexandro)
 
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