Both sides of the story

[Emmjay]

I'm hoping to put together a discussion for those who told their partners they wanted to be Poly, and those who had to listen.

I'm hoping that you would consider sharing how it was for you to tell or hear and how you go forward from there. What is/has worked for you to improve your relationships? How are you making things better?

 

[Magdlyn]

Attempting polyamory in my formerly monogamous marriage of 20 years did not go well. I didn't tell me (ex) husband I was poly. He knew I was all along... but we didn't have a word for it in 1999. Even though I'd been loyal and never physically cheated, I was polyamorous at heart. Finally he accepted my bisexuality (pan, really) and said it was OK if I had sex with other women (especially if he was involved). But he wanted a one-penis policy. I didn't think that was fair. It wasn't until he got a gf of his own and she agreed with me that a OPP was unfair that he grudgingly agreed. So in theory he was OK with my flirting with and having sex with other men. But in reality, he was EXTREMELY jealous and disturbed by it, and it was one of the reasons we split in 2008. It was just too much of a threat to his weak self esteem.

Also, his NRE for his new gf caused him to neglect me, our kids and our home maintenance, vacations and holidays, etc., etc. It just didn't work for us.

Of course, back then, all we had to go on was The Ethical Slut (which I read, but he didn't). We didn't have other books, tons of info on the internet, etc. We did go to counseling with a poly-friendly therapist, but he couldn't make any progress. She let him go as a client, in fact.

 

[Rooster]

My wife never got a chance to tell me she was polly. I suggested that she pursue her desire to be sexualy active with women in hopes it would make up for my declining sex drive.

The situation snowballed from there. We didn't really start out on the same page, I thought she was just going out with girls to get off and satisfy her sexual appetite. I think she may have had the same idea when she started dating girls but after she connected with someone things changed (over time) into another relationship outside of our marriage.

Once that sunk in I started to freak out and feel insecure. That's how I discovered this forum and that's when I learned the real definition of polyamory. After finally being honest with myself the fears faded away.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Emmjay,

My attempts to tell my wife that I wanted to be poly, kind of weren't productive because she was coming down with Alzheimer's, and was forgetting the conversations we'd had. Our first conversation about it went pretty well, I felt like she gave me the space I needed to talk, and she did not just shut me down, her response was more like, "We'll see."

My now-partner (Snowbunny) talked with her husband about poly on and off over the course of a year. From what she told me, those conversations were not easy, but her husband eventually opened up to the idea of poly, and he became my metamour.

We had some rough years in the beginning of our polycule; one thing that helped us was having family talks once a week. Things gradually got smoother for us, and we didn't need to have those talks as often. Today we get along pretty well from day to day, we are like a regular couple only there's three of us (my wife passed away in 2013).

Let me know if you have any more questions for me.
Regards,
Kevin T.

 

[Emmjay]

Attempting polyamory in my formerly monogamous marriage of 20 years did not go well. I didn't tell me (ex) husband I was poly. He knew I was all along... but we didn't have a word for it in 1999. Even though I'd been loyal and never physically cheated, I was polyamorous at heart. Finally he accepted my bisexuality (pan, really) and said it was OK if I had sex with other women (especially if he was involved). But he wanted a one-penis policy. I didn't think that was fair. It wasn't until he got a gf of his own and she agreed with me that a OPP was unfair that he grudgingly agreed. So in theory he was OK with my flirting with and having sex with other men. But in reality, he was EXTREMELY jealous and disturbed by it, and it was one of the reasons we split in 2008. It was just too much of a threat to his weak self esteem.

Also, his NRE for his new gf caused him to neglect me, our kids and our home maintenance, vacations and holidays, etc., etc. It just didn't work for us.

Of course, back then, all we had to go on was The Ethical Slut (which I read, but he didn't). We didn't have other books, tons of info on the internet, etc. We did go to counseling with a poly-friendly therapist, but he couldn't make any progress. She let him go as a client, in fact.

Magdyln. I appreciate that. Some experiences don't go down well and I knew I'd have to hear the good with the bad. I'm just hoping that my situation can end good. There is so much potential for good, that's why it sucks to feel so bad and shaky. I find myself coming out of the monogamy ring swinging, so yeah, that didn't help. I was just trying to make a stand for myself; something that took a long time to do. My ex of 17 years was an older gent and very controlling, manipulative. I also know that I made a choice to be there, so I'm not going to blame it all on him, but I found I was still putting his behavior in other partners, which is totally unfair of me. So, I'm doing some back tracking and working on me because that's where it starts and ends, doesn't it? So I ask you, how did you build yourself back up confidence-wise and embrace life? This is what I need to work on and reading your other posts you project strong.

 

[Emmjay]

My wife never got a chance to tell me she was polly. I suggested that she pursue her desire to be sexualy active with women in hopes it would make up for my declining sex drive.

The situation snowballed from there. We didn't really start out on the same page, I thought she was just going out with girls to get off and satisfy her sexual appetite. I think she may have had the same idea when she started dating girls but after she connected with someone things changed (over time) into another relationship outside of our marriage.

Once that sunk in I started to freak out and feel insecure. That's how I discovered this forum and that's when I learned the real definition of polyamory. After finally being honest with myself the fears faded away.

Rooster,

I do see that pattern on some, where the woman wants to explore women. I understand this. I wonder if it's the mindset that two women can't link romantically? That it is all about sexual experience? I know, that's bullshit. In all honesty, I have not read a story where a couple was on the same page from the beginning. So tell me, what freaked you out, what kicked in your insecurity? What do you feel is the real definition for you of polyamory and how were you honest with yourself? How did you get the fears to fade? How do I help let the fears fade?

I want so much to embrace this but I'm holding myself on the edge because my partner hurts, and no that isn't his fault either. I found someone on this site and they are like no one I've ever known and lately it's felt like this is how it should be, this is what I've been looking for having the two, I actually felt such an inner peace from it, until I see how it affects my primary. So I feel frozen, because you wonder how can you be so happy when someone you care about is hurting? So what did you need to help the fear fade, what was your fear?

 

[Emmjay]

Hi Emmjay,

My attempts to tell my wife that I wanted to be poly, kind of weren't productive because she was coming down with Alzheimer's, and was forgetting the conversations we'd had. Our first conversation about it went pretty well, I felt like she gave me the space I needed to talk, and she did not just shut me down, her response was more like, "We'll see."

My now-partner (Snowbunny) talked with her husband about poly on and off over the course of a year. From what she told me, those conversations were not easy, but her husband eventually opened up to the idea of poly, and he became my metamour.

We had some rough years in the beginning of our polycule; one thing that helped us was having family talks once a week. Things gradually got smoother for us, and we didn't need to have those talks as often. Today we get along pretty well from day to day, we are like a regular couple only there's three of us (my wife passed away in 2013).

Let me know if you have any more questions for me.
Regards,
Kevin T.

Kevin,

I did go through your blog and have much empathy for what you went through. Part of me feels lucky that my primary is trying and he is trying but he is struggling. I don't expect this to be easy when there are damaged personalities. We both went through Polysecure, I find I can relate to all types, but I struggle with titles and tags.

I didn't even know about the tag Polyamory until I was researching open marriage, because that's what I wanted. Once I began to read I realized I have been leaning towards this since I started intimate relationships and I envy those out there that discovered who they were in their 20s. I do need help and I'm actively helping myself, along with reaching out here. I think it's so important to connect with other Poly people. I went to a few online discussions, which were good, but I think I need to meet people in person; something that the hermit in me is freaking over. I'm scheduled for three meetups so far, the first at the end of the month. I have high hopes and fears.

My primary and secondary will meet; this is scary and yet I have hope. I need hope. Where is the line of trying to help and the space where my primary needs to do for himself? How do you get rid of the guilt? I don't want to shut down to protect myself, I don't want to shut down at all. I want to freaking fly!

 

[ExpatAmor]

Hi Emmjay,

Great idea for a discussion topic. I was on the other side, so to speak. I’ve recently shared in a couple other threads that I was “poly-bombed” a couple months ago when my wife first proposed opening our marriage. By the way, she was over a month pregnant with our third child at this time.

First, here’s some more information about the context it came up. Shortly after the pregnancy was confirmed, I noticed a strange message while using her computer about keeping the messages bland here… I asked about it and she said she has been in touch with an ex-boyfriend, messaging and calling. They were friends before a romantic relationship developed. This same situation happened about six months into our marriage, same guy. It wasn’t a problem that she was contacting him, it’s that she was hiding it and doing it without telling me. It was emotional cheating both times. It was a big issue the first time and maybe would have been again, but during that discussion she dropped the bomb.

It hurt. It really, really hurt. I cried a lot, especially the first day. Mainly because we have two young children (and another on the way) that I love very much and I don’t know if I’ll be able to stay with my wife because of this. Divorce would be brutal, but it is a real possibility. I honestly don’t know yet which direction we’ll go.

We are doing couples therapy now with a great counselor we’ve worked with before. It’s good getting her perspectives as she already knows us and our previous relationship issues. Finding this website has been amazingly helpful. I’ve had invaluable private discussions here with others who have experienced being in the same position. Although I’m not sure if this lifestyle is a good fit for me, I completely respect all those who embrace it and it works for them.

I’m really curious to hear what others have to say because, like Emmjay, I am currently going through it.

Thank you all for sharing your experiences, perspectives, and advice. Either side of this discussion you were on can be extremely challenging. The sense of community here makes the journey feel less isolated than it otherwise would be.

 

[Rooster]

So tell me, what freaked you out, what kicked in your insecurity?

When I gave her consent I sort of gaslighted myself into believing there was no possibility of her falling in love with someone else. It was easier to lie myself because I was thinking since it was just girls only then it could only be for fun. Once I realized she could fall in love I started to actually imagine what that would be like and that's when I freaked out because it gave me this gut feeling of "SHE'S CHEATING!".

What do you feel is the real definition for you of polyamory and how were you honest with yourself?

I was thinking poly is just people who date outside of the relationship. Open marriage type situations. Now I feel like it's more about letting people individually control who and how they love with complete trust.
Now I'm not saying that there aren't still issues and emotions and that's where the self honesty comes in.

Oh man I have so much more to say on this but I'm out of time right now, t.b.c.

 

[Magdlyn]

Magdyln. I appreciate that. Some experiences don't go down well and I knew I'd have to hear the good with the bad. I'm just hoping that my situation can end good. There is so much potential for good, that's why it sucks to feel so bad and shaky. I find myself coming out of the monogamy ring swinging, so yeah, that didn't help. I was just trying to make a stand for myself; something that took a long time to do. My ex of 17 years was an older gent and very controlling, manipulative. I also know that I made a choice to be there, so I'm not going to blame it all on him, but I found I was still putting his behavior in other partners, which is totally unfair of me. So, I'm doing some back tracking and working on me because that's where it starts and ends, doesn't it? So I ask you, how did you build yourself back up confidence-wise and embrace life? This is what I need to work on and reading your other posts you project strong.

Hmm, building my confidence enough to divorce my husband of 30 years (10 years after attempting polyamory to one degree or another) took work. I went to couples counseling with him 4 times over the years of our relationship. The 3rd counselor was poly-friendly, LGBTQ-friendly, and just open to alternative "lifestyles" in general. She really helped to to see that I was strong, I'd been strong all along, I was worth enough as I was to forge a new path outside of being uneasily partnered with a man I'd met when I was 19 (and he was 21), now that we were in our 50s.

I went to couples counseling with her for 1 year, and I saw her individually for 3 years in all. She was wonderful and I made a lot of progress.

(Our final couples counselor was a last ditch effort, and we only saw him 3 times, to no avail. I already had at least one foot out the door by then.)

Being that I am an old I was raised in a culture where one man/one woman was the norm, where early marriage was rather encouraged, where I wasn't even fully aware of how queer I was, where it seemed slutty and felt insecure to continue to poly date as I did in my late teens. My ex matched my tastes in many many ways, and still does! But we differed enough in some critical ways that continuing to live together was just getting harder and harder. Our kids at that point were late teens/early 20s, and about to leave the nest, or already had, so that helped a lot. However, of course, I feel bad that we showed them a less than stellar example of what a loving successful partnership could be.

I think the worst part about monogamy is it's based on a lie. I continually got crushes on other people. To avoid hurting my ex, I used to lie and say I didn't. But he always could tell. Heck, he even thought I had crushes on people I didn't. And him? He said he never ever imagined having sex with another woman until we were seeing our 3rd counselor. Then he finally admitted he'd mentally undressed every single attractive woman he'd ever met, and fantasized regularly. He was "trying to set a good example" of monogamy for slutty me. To hear that hurt me immensely. He'd led me to believe he was the "good" one and I was the "evil" one for so so long.

All in all, monogamy just isn't real. Humans aren't meant to be mono. Men aren't meant to control "their" women's sexuality, or vice versa, for that matter. So I just got radically honest with myself and set out on my own. I was really happy to do so by the time we split for good. And it turns out I was able to date a lot and find partners easily.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm not one of the "after marriage" people. I was way before.

So I think that plays into it some -- it can feel more intense or shattering for some of the "after marriage" people. And depending on what those marriage vows were? Ends them. So then it's marriage over. Now what? Reboot with new agreements or just be done? On the Stress Scale, it hits some major points.

Me? He was a cute college guy I met a few months earlier that I'd become friends with. And we were both horny one night. So we shared casual sex and it was fun for both of us. Next day asked him if he wanted to leave it there at one time only, wanted a regular FWB, thing, wanted to date, or what. I said I was up for any of those. But if we did agree to FWB or date he needed to know I didn't want to be exclusive and was not esp into monogamy. I wanted a relationship of the present, and I didn't want to talk about some big future. ( I did not have the word polyamory back then and there wasn't internet or books like today. )

I didn't have a hard time telling him. Frankly, at that age? It wasn't like we had this huge history together, obligations, or entanglements.

He thought I was refreshingly direct. Though I was his first encounter with it, he had no issues with ENM or poly. He was up for it. So it started FWB, we both saw other people, and it eventually I settled into a V with him as BF1 and I also had a BF2. That was a lovely time for several years.

Mostly how we went forward at the beginning? We agreed to use condoms and safer sex practices. I don't need to know or hear about his people unless he wants to tell me something. Same the other way. BF1 and BF2 knew how to contact each other if there was emergency about me, but really they didn't talk much and both knew up front what the deal was.

"Newsworthy" to me was if someone was looking to go lover or had become a lover. I wanted to know so I could decide to continue with him or not and come to decisions about MY sex health hygiene from an informed place. Same the other way. No dating each other's relatives. Too messy. We both thought that was fair.

I asked him last night how it was as the listener and he said initially interesting/different because it was his first exposure, but over time not any different than anything else about getting to know me more deeply. Plus, if he didn't like the deal, it's not like he couldn't have said "No, thanks" and just moved along.

I think that's still true even if the poly thing doesn't come to light until after marriage. ANY TIME -- a person can say "Nope. No thank you. This is not for me." Because their consent to participate in things or not belongs to THEM.

But I also think people get really comfortable where they are, don't want to think about changes, maybe don't have a savings account with their "fuck this shit" money already lined up. Maybe haven't really thought about love and what they believe. Maybe walked into marriage on "auto pilot" without really doing the work of engagement. Maybe they aren't used to really talking to their spouse up front and honest. Maybe didn't really know their own selves til later in life or are carrying personal baggage. Lots of things that will compound a poly revelation if it comes AFTER marriage. Esp a marriage with kids, because without? One just walks away. With? You are there still being coparents.

Dissolving a marriage is more complex than dissolving some college hook up. That is just "Ok, had fun. But no, no thanks for more." Dissolving a marriage or rebuilding it around different vows/agreements -- that's way more work. Esp. for the people who build their identity around being married. Major stress.

What is/has worked for you to improve your relationships? How are you making things better?

Not being one of those CoupleBlobs who are joined at the hip. But also not taking for granted and maintaining connection.

Building a support network of authentic friends and family. I think people skip that part when they try to poly discreetly. Then they have nobody to talk to or help if/when things go wahoonie.

Knowing that certain chapters of life? If the poly people aren't here already? It's not the time to start new relationships. I cannot imagine starting again when I was pregnant or when I had 5 sick elders to deal with. Some chapters are/will be better than others.

There's always been a basis of honesty, taking personal responsibility, and working things out. But this extra stressy chapter of raising kids AND doing eldercare was REALLY argh at the start when we didn't have caregiver skills yet. We were starting to pick at each other so I suggested taking a Non-violent Communication class which helped a lot. And if that wasn't enough, to go see a couples counselor.

Galagirl

 

[GalaGirl]

I want so much to embrace this but I'm holding myself on the edge because my partner hurts, and no that isn't his fault either.

On the edge of what?

Do you have realistic expectations of yourself as a hinge? When you are the hinge, you are not obligated to do "extra jobs" like coach the other two through polyamory or be like their free counselor. That's a recipe for burn out and/or implosion. It's ok to ONLY be their partner.

If you are new to being a hinge, it's OK for that to feel weird. You don't have to "fix" it. You live through it and experience will come.

You don't have to be going around like "OMG. I have to do all this stuff for them, it's so unfair of me to want to have my cake and eat it too with more than one partner lalalala." If you are doing any of that kind of anxiety witter and then it leads to guilt tripping weirdness? Stop. Remember everyone is here of their own volition. Everyone an adult responsible for their own self.

So limit your responsibility to the things YOU are responsible and don't try to carry the whole polyship just because you want it to work out.

Your 100% effort is only 1/3 of the fuel to make a 3 people thing go. The rest could do their fair share.

I actually felt such an inner peace from it, until I see how it affects my primary. So I feel frozen, because you wonder how can you be so happy when someone you care about is hurting? So what did you need to help the fear fade, what was your fear?

It is possible to feel two things at the same time. Your feelings are not a "problem" to solve. They are emotion to feel, notice, and then let pass over time.

Right this minute I'm happy that I'm going out to meet a friend. While I'm sad some other friend called me this morning to tell me her sister passed from COVID.

What is YOUR fear? And what do YOU need for your fear to fade?

My primary and secondary will meet; this is scary and yet I have hope. I need hope.

Why are they meeting at this time? To firm up initial agreements? Like you two have agreed to open the marriage and then you three agreed practice a primary-secondary model for a time? Secondary like how? Descriptive because one partner is LDR or has their own spouse or something? Or prescriptive like this other partner can never be "working toward co-primary" or like you will always place the other partner first no matter what? Is this a separate V or KTP or something else? Things like that would be good to iron out. It's better if people have clear shared expectations and agreements.

Hope for what? Like...what's making you feel hopeless?

Where is the line of trying to help and the space where my primary needs to do for himself?

You ask him what help he needs. If they are reasonable and rational requests you can actually do or provide? You try to do it.

Like NOT gushing your NRE lalas at him. Gush them at the other partner if you must gush. But not at the partner who is grieving the loss of the old relationship model and still adjusting. That is a reasonable and fair request.

If the requests are unreasonable or irrational? You say "I see you want that. I'm sorry. I can't do that." And then you just don't.

You may have to disentangle yourself from your primary and their emotional management. That doesn't mean you don't care at all about them. It means you cannot do their emotional management FOR them.

Just as you don't project your personal stuff on to other people? You can't go around being other people's projection screen either. Each person could hold their own bag.

People can't be dumping their stuff on to you to carry FOR them. If they try to pass it on to you, it's ok to leave it on the floor. If it matters to them? THEY can carry it. If they carry too much baggage around? Their job to go unpack that, and repack lighter. They can learn to let some stuff go.

Being someone's partner isn't signing up to to be their emotional dumpster, bell hop, or punching bag.

How do you get rid of the guilt? I don't want to shut down to protect myself, I don't want to shut down at all. I want to freaking fly!

If there are 3 consenting adults participating in what is now a primary-secondary relationship where at least one side is a married couple....

What exactly are you feeling guilty about? What are you protecting yourself from? What crime has been done here?

That you outgrew the old marriage model and want to try something else? Then asked spouse if they were up for it or not and they said ok, willing to try?

It's not like you railroaded them, right?

It's either going to pan out. Or not. You can't know it ahead of time. You have to live through it to find out.

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Emmjay,

Re: the guilt that you seem to feel ... makes me think of a certain link, it is called, Seven Affirmations for Polyamorous People Who Are Struggling with Self-Judgment.

Another one to consider is, "Sex at Dawn: how we mate, why we stray, and what it means for modern relationships," a book by Christopher Ryan and Cacilda Jethá. It explains how nonmonogamy is a natural part of the human condition; monogamy has only been imposed on us over the last few thousand years. So you are not doing anything inherently bad, you are simply rediscovering a part of you that was buried in the ancient past.

There is of course a chance that your primary just won't be able to accept your polyamory, no matter how hard he tries. This is the really difficult part about the poly conversation, is that it may reveal a deal breaker. It is not a great solution for you to just bury who you are inside, although I believe many people have done that. A relationship with your primary should only continue if it can do so joyfully, for both of you.

In your case, I believe it is most likely that time will be the secret ingredient that your primary needs. I think he can eventually be okay with poly, but it will take a lot of patience on your part. He needs to grow some familiarity with poly, and he needs to see, over time, that you will not replace him with another partner. Some things can't be established with words alone.

Kind regards,
Kevin T.

 

[GalaGirl]

A relationship with your primary should only continue if it can do so joyfully, for both of you.

This. And this even if polyamory was never part of the conversation.

Some people come to marriage with this "There. Sealed for life. Checklist item checked off" kind of approach. Like it's a done deal. Start taking partner for granted, don't stay connected to the partner, or they grow over time in different directions.

If a marriage cannot continue joyfully for BOTH partners? It's ok to stop being married.

I'm hoping things work out for you and both partners. But only time will tell. You can't play this tape on "fast forward" to see if it does or doesn't. It takes time to unfold and you are only responsible for your 1/3 of a 3 people thing. Consent? Willingness? Ability? Skills needed to be here like this? That's all on each person to say/do/develop.

Galagirl

 

[Emmjay]

Hmm, building my confidence enough to divorce my husband of 30 years (10 years after attempting polyamory to one degree or another) took work. I went to couples counseling with him 4 times over the years of our relationship. The 3rd counselor was poly-friendly, LGBTQ-friendly, and just open to alternative "lifestyles" in general. She really helped to to see that I was strong, I'd been strong all along, I was worth enough as I was to forge a new path outside of being uneasily partnered with a man I'd met when I was 19 (and he was 21), now that we were in our 50s.

I went to couples counseling with her for 1 year, and I saw her individually for 3 years in all. She was wonderful and I made a lot of progress.

(Our final couples counselor was a last ditch effort, and we only saw him 3 times, to no avail. I already had at least one foot out the door by then.)

Being that I am an old I was raised in a culture where one man/one woman was the norm, where early marriage was rather encouraged, where I wasn't even fully aware of how queer I was, where it seemed slutty and felt insecure to continue to poly date as I did in my late teens. My ex matched my tastes in many many ways, and still does! But we differed enough in some critical ways that continuing to live together was just getting harder and harder. Our kids at that point were late teens/early 20s, and about to leave the nest, or already had, so that helped a lot. However, of course, I feel bad that we showed them a less than stellar example of what a loving successful partnership could be.

I think the worst part about monogamy is it's based on a lie. I continually got crushes on other people. To avoid hurting my ex, I used to lie and say I didn't. But he always could tell. Heck, he even thought I had crushes on people I didn't. And him? He said he never ever imagined having sex with another woman until we were seeing our 3rd counselor. Then he finally admitted he'd mentally undressed every single attractive woman he'd ever met, and fantasized regularly. He was "trying to set a good example" of monogamy for slutty me. To hear that hurt me immensely. He'd led me to believe he was the "good" one and I was the "evil" one for so so long.

All in all, monogamy just isn't real. Humans aren't meant to be mono. Men aren't meant to control "their" women's sexuality, or vice versa, for that matter. So I just got radically honest with myself and set out on my own. I was really happy to do so by the time we split for good. And it turns out I was able to date a lot and find partners easily.

Magdlyn,

The culture drives me a little nuts. I connect deeply with music and there is so much that revolves around monogamy and now it's larger than life when I listen. I find myself leaning towards the power music like Halestorm I am the fire, kind of thing. I think my whole upbringing was based on a lie. (Raised Catholic. I'm sorry for anyone that is Catholic, truly. It's just my experience.)

I lived in the middle east for 6 years....how do I say without being offensive and how can I judge anyway when my own culture....yeah nevermind.

I do feel evil. Like the evil one, he told me that I continue to do things wrong. Yes he apologized for it, but when you say that, is it truly meant? Probably at the time. I feel like I'm doing the hurting, but still working towards being my inner badass beeotch! I'm sorry, but that's going to have to come first this time. I suppose that means that I'm really not sorry.

 

[Emmjay]

On the edge of what?

Do you have realistic expectations of yourself as a hinge? When you are the hinge, you are not obligated to do "extra jobs" like coach the other two through polyamory or be like their free counselor. That's a recipe for burn out and/or implosion. It's ok to ONLY be their partner.

If you are new to being a hinge, it's OK for that to feel weird. You don't have to "fix" it. You live through it and experience will come.

You don't have to be going around like "OMG. I have to do all this stuff for them, it's so unfair of me to want to have my cake and eat it too with more than one partner lalalala." If you are doing any of that kind of anxiety witter and then it leads to guilt tripping weirdness? Stop. Remember everyone is here of their own volition. Everyone an adult responsible for their own self.

So limit your responsibility to the things YOU are responsible and don't try to carry the whole polyship just because you want it to work out.

Your 100% effort is only 1/3 of the fuel to make a 3 people thing go. The rest could do their fair share.



It is possible to feel two things at the same time. Your feelings are not a "problem" to solve. They are emotion to feel, notice, and then let pass over time.

Right this minute I'm happy that I'm going out to meet a friend. While I'm sad some other friend called me this morning to tell me her sister passed from COVID.

What is YOUR fear? And what do YOU need for your fear to fade?



Why are they meeting at this time? To firm up initial agreements? Like you two have agreed to open the marriage and then you three agreed practice a primary-secondary model for a time? Secondary like how? Descriptive because one partner is LDR or has their own spouse or something? Or prescriptive like this other partner can never be "working toward co-primary" or like you will always place the other partner first no matter what? Is this a separate V or KTP or something else? Things like that would be good to iron out. It's better if people have clear shared expectations and agreements.

Hope for what? Like...what's making you feel hopeless?



You ask him what help he needs. If they are reasonable and rational requests you can actually do or provide? You try to do it.

Like NOT gushing your NRE lalas at him. Gush them at the other partner if you must gush. But not at the partner who is grieving the loss of the old relationship model and still adjusting. That is a reasonable and fair request.

If the requests are unreasonable or irrational? You say "I see you want that. I'm sorry. I can't do that." And then you just don't.

You may have to disentangle yourself from your primary and their emotional management. That doesn't mean you don't care at all about them. It means you cannot do their emotional management FOR them.

Just as you don't project your personal stuff on to other people? You can't go around being other people's projection screen either. Each person could hold their own bag.

People can't be dumping their stuff on to you to carry FOR them. If they try to pass it on to you, it's ok to leave it on the floor. If it matters to them? THEY can carry it. If they carry too much baggage around? Their job to go unpack that, and repack lighter. They can learn to let some stuff go.

Being someone's partner isn't signing up to to be their emotional dumpster, bell hop, or punching bag.



If there are 3 consenting adults participating in what is now a primary-secondary relationship where at least one side is a married couple....

What exactly are you feeling guilty about? What are you protecting yourself from? What crime has been done here?

That you outgrew the old marriage model and want to try something else? Then asked spouse if they were up for it or not and they said ok, willing to try?

It's not like you railroaded them, right?

It's either going to pan out. Or not. You can't know it ahead of time. You have to live through it to find out.

Galagirl

Oh woman! You have the greatest way with words! God, I wish this community was down the road at the local pub instead of scattered across the world!

I feel like I'm on the edge of the old person moving to the new person and I'm just holding out my hand, waiting for my husband to take those last steps, while my other partner waits patiently up ahead. I don't want to lose him to his insecurities. That's not my choice, I can hear you.

A realistic expectation of a hinge? No, probably not. I'm having a little implosion now. Wanting to do right by primary, wanting to do right for myself and sharing myself with open trust with my other partner and just let that develop. Primary tells me I'm going too fast. (Blame it on my Wild Heart Stevie Nicks.) That he needs a breath to catch up with me. Implication that I'm oblivious to his predicament. I. Am. Not. But I will no longer neglect myself and that fricking siren calling off inside my chest. What is slowing down and giving a breath? Just following where it leads now? How slow is slow? I've seen others talk to their partners asking them to limit the number. I can do that. To limit get-togethers to once a week for a few hours? I don't think that is unreasonable. I don't see this is fast? I see this as slowing down until his comfort level rises. Every two weeks? I'm not cool with that.

Could I lose him that easily? I'm thinking not, but I have to be vigilant and I'm exhausted because the emotions flying with my new partner are there too and I'm tripping on my own insecurities and I'm looking at those and working on self-growth. I feel a bit embarrassed by being so damaged, but that's okay because I can heal. I will heal. Fuck this old mind set.

I'm feeling guilty about the poly bomb. I'm feeling guilty about the trigger leading me to all this where I connected with a co-worker in another state and was distance-intimate. (Now done because it's not ethical since they are married and...just not ethical." Its happened before where we actually broke up because I thought I had to choose one for the other. In fact, that's when I realized I had a poly pattern through all my relationships and just didn't listen. So he lost trust there. God, am I convincing you I'm evil like Magdyln said? "Like no wait, you have to have the full story of how much I sucked!"

I made mistakes. I have no excuses or justifications; I own it. I just haven't been true to myself and although I am bitter for hurting anyone, what I've done to myself has been much worse and I say enough. I can't pay for the past anymore. You're not one of those evil sneaky counselors, are you? Talk about holding up a mirror. I knew I had to answer you, and in turn, answer to me. Holy shit.

 

[Emmjay]

Hi Emmjay,

Re: the guilt that you seem to feel ... makes me think of a certain link, it is called, Seven Affirmations for Polyamorous People Who Are Struggling with Self-Judgment.

Another one to consider is, "Sex at Dawn: how we mate, why we stray, and what it means for modern relationships," a book by Christopher Ryan and Cacilda Jethá. It explains how nonmonogamy is a natural part of the human condition; monogamy has only been imposed on us over the last few thousand years. So you are not doing anything inherently bad, you are simply rediscovering a part of you that was buried in the ancient past.

There is of course a chance that your primary just won't be able to accept your polyamory, no matter how hard he tries. This is the really difficult part about the poly conversation, is that it may reveal a deal breaker. It is not a great solution for you to just bury who you are inside, although I believe many people have done that. A relationship with your primary should only continue if it can do so joyfully, for both of you.

In your case, I believe it is most likely that time will be the secret ingredient that your primary needs. I think he can eventually be okay with poly, but it will take a lot of patience on your part. He needs to grow some familiarity with poly, and he needs to see, over time, that you will not replace him with another partner. Some things can't be established with words alone.

Kind regards,
Kevin T.

Kevin,

Thank you. I read the article. I'm finding I'm okay with that part of the equation, or may be haven't had to deal with any stigma from society yet. I've always lived on the fringes anyway, so I'm not overly bothered by that judgement. The only one I felt necessary to tell in my family, was my daughter. She's a huge free thinker bisexual stick it to modern culture, anyway. She said as long I'm happy, she is good.

I have to say that right now I plan to connect with poly; period. I did notice the radical self-care and I think I will look into that. Seeing an audio book now called Sit down to rise up. Do you know of a better one?

I looked up Sex at Dawn and I show a book called Summary of Christopher Ryan & Cacilda Jetha's Sex at Dawn. Do you find that is as helpful? I lean towards audio books because I can fit them into my life, where print books are a little harder to manage. I agree with you. Primary tells me he wants this and that his logical brain understands. It's that mental monster that likes to replay hell that is giving him issue. He is seeing a counselor but may need to increase the times. It's hard to find a Poly counselor that takes our insurance....I think.

Our relationship is growing closer so....I'm hoping time and talking to other will help. He will be attending the mixer as well. Gala, that is why they are meeting by the way, because they are going to be sharing a group and space. Nothing forced.

I feel like I've become a nudist in winter just baring my ass to the world. I've noticed that is how this community seems to tick. I kind of love that part. Thank you with all my heart.

 

[GalaGirl]

A realistic expectation of a hinge? No, probably not. I'm having a little implosion now. Wanting to do right by primary, wanting to do right for myself and sharing myself with open trust with my other partner and just let that develop

I'm sorry you are having an implosion. Maybe schedule rest in between activities so you get regular down time? You sound like you are doing your best.

Our relationship is growing closer so....I'm hoping time and talking to other will help.

There you go.

Faith is having the confidence that actions rooted in good character will yield the best outcome even when you cannot see how. Now that you quit bottling yourself up, and are being more up front, honest, and authentic with with him? Yah, some turbulence. And prob more to come because this is a transition time full of adjustments. One doesn't insta-arrive.

But over all? Doing well for where you are at with it.

Primary tells me he wants this and that his logical brain understands. It's that mental monster that likes to replay hell that is giving him issue. He is seeing a counselor but may need to increase the times. It's hard to find a Poly counselor that takes our insurance....I think.

Sounds like he's willing to try and he's willing do his share of the prep work.

I do feel evil. Like the evil one, he told me that I continue to do things wrong. Yes he apologized for it, but when you say that, is it truly meant? Probably at the time.

This is a major shift. He can have a day of his brain going haywire under duress. If he said things while addled? Then later cooled off and realized he was all bonkers? Then apologized for that acting out behavior? You could forgive and let go.

I feel like I'm doing the hurting, but still working towards being my inner badass beeotch! I'm sorry, but that's going to have to come first this time. I suppose that means that I'm really not sorry.

The situation is hard on both of you. Don't have to be taking it personally or acting out at each other personally.

I could be wrong but you sound like your internal volume knob is wonky. Everything is set to MAX volume.

• It has to be that you are evil? It can't be that people make mistakes sometimes?
• It has to be you doing all the hurting? It can't be this situation means lots of changes and processing so people might hurt for different reasons at different times even though everyone is here of their own volition and determined this was acceptable risk?

Doesn't that get exhausting? The WHOLE WORLD on your shoulders being all your fault?

Try to be kinder on you and your partners.

He will be attending the mixer as well. Gala, that is why they are meeting by the way, because they are going to be sharinup and space. Nothing forced.

Well, if they want to attend poly mixers at this stage, that's up to them. And fine to negotiate how to share the same group/space. On the flip side, it's also ok to change one's mind and postpone this activity if there's just too many changes going on at the same time. Or show up, but bow out early if one gets overwhelmed.

If spouse is the one asking to slow down, why's he going to mixers? Where's the rush? There's mixers all the time. But that's not your thing to deal with. It's his job to figure out how to pace himself with activities. You have to figure out how to pace you.

Primary tells me I'm going too fast. (Blame it on my Wild Heart Stevie Nicks.) That he needs a breath to catch up with me. Implication that I'm oblivious to his predicament. I. Am. Not.

Did you ask him what he meant? If he was implying that you are unaware of his predicament? And asked him to explain catch up to WHAT? IF you didn't could ask clarifying questions before you react or respond.

But I will no longer neglect myself and that fricking siren calling off inside my chest.

Good. You could take care of you rather than self neglecting.

What is slowing down and giving a breath? Just following where it leads now? How slow is slow? I've seen others talk to their partners asking them to limit the number. I can do that. To limit get-togethers to once a week for a few hours? I don't think that is unreasonable. I don't see this is fast? I see this as slowing down until his comfort level rises. Every two weeks? I'm not cool with that.

I don't understand this paragraph. Is this rhetorical or actual?

Did your partner actually ask you to limit you dates to every 2 weeks for the first X months? But you don't want to? Why not split the diff and do 1.5 weeks? Or renegotiate something else? Maybe 2 weeks for the first 2 months, then 1.5 weeks for the next 2 mos, then 1 week how you want. Cuz in the big picture what is that? 4 months of transition time? That's not a horrible price of admission. He's not asking for 40 years.

I find myself coming out of the monogamy ring swinging, so yeah, that didn't help. I was just trying to make a stand for myself; something that took a long time to do. My ex of 17 years was an older gent and very controlling, manipulative. I also know that I made a choice to be there, so I'm not going to blame it all on him, but I found I was still putting his behavior in other partners, which is totally unfair of me.

You seem to recognize it above. But I wonder if you are still letting your hackles go up with defensiveness all prickly porcupine?

Do you realize you are actually you are are one of the luckier ones? Your spouse is willing to try. Some people come here all depressed because their spouse didn't react badly, but doesn't want any poly. Or worse.... reacted really bad, wants none of it, and is raining hell on them.

I'm feeling guilty about the poly bomb.

Why? It's just being honest about where you are at.

Yeah, it changes some things, and leads to big discussion.

But what's the alternative? Not being honest with spouse about what's going on with you on the inside? How would that really help a marriage any? One thinking all is hunky dory and the other one dying on the inside?

I'm feeling guilty about the trigger leading me to all this where I connected with a co-worker in another state and was distance-intimate. (Now done because it's not ethical since they are married and...just not ethical."

The part about slipping into something unethical with a coworker isn't great. You did have the sense to end it. So that's good. Could call it done and resolve not to do anything like that any more. Forgive yourself and move on. You don't have to dwell on mistakes and save them up in a bag like sticks to beat yourself up with later.

Its happened before where we actually broke up because I thought I had to choose one for the other. In fact, that's when I realized I had a poly pattern through all my relationships and just didn't listen. So he lost trust there.

Well, hopefully trust was repaired when you got back together.

God, am I convincing you I'm evil like Magdyln said? "Like no wait, you have to have the full story of how much I sucked!"

Don't need the story. And I don't think you are evil.

I think you spend a lot of time talking mean to yourself or beating up on yourself in other ways. This self bullying behavior doesn't seem to help you become this "new person" you want to be. It seems to hold you back.

So I wonder why you keep doing that behavior? What do you need to change it or let it go?

I made mistakes. I have no excuses or justifications; I own it. I just haven't been true to myself and although I am bitter for hurting anyone, what I've done to myself has been much worse and I say enough. I can't pay for the past anymore. You're not one of those evil sneaky counselors, are you? Talk about holding up a mirror. I knew I had to answer you, and in turn, answer to me. Holy shit.

Nope. Not a counselor. Just some internet stranger. Just kinda "wow" reading your posts because you sound wound up tighter than a tick over WHAT?

• Being human?
• Finally deciding to live your life authentically?
• Getting around to forgiving yourself and moving forward in your life?
• Being more up front and honest with your spouse?

I think you could cut yourself a break and make peace with yourself. You don't have to justify, argue, defend, explain to anyone here.

I suppose if you need to process or air out your could journal or talk to someone like a counselor. But dang! However you do it? Throw away the stick collection. Stop beating yourself with those old sticks.

Be ok taking up the space you do in the world. Your own fair share.

I feel like I'm on the edge of the old person moving to the new person

If you want to be this new person? Let that old person go. Let the old sticks go.

Breathe. Be.

And go easier on yourself and your people in this transition time.

It's ok not to come at it so INTENSE.

Wanting to do right by primary, wanting to do right for myself and sharing myself with open trust with my other partner and just let that develop

If this is what you want? Let this new polyship thing develop. Trust yourself more. Hold your own bag. And trust each partner to hold their own bag.

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Emmjay,

I am not familiar with the book, "Sit Down to Rise Up." The title sounds promising. This is also the first I've heard of the book, "Summary of Christopher Ryan and Cacilda Jethá's Sex at Dawn" ... so I don't know for sure if it's a favorable summary; there's at least one book, or article, out there that undermines Sex at Dawn, so just be aware of that side of it. I don't know if there's an audio version of Sex at Dawn itself? It's good that your primary is seeing a counselor, I know it's hard to find poly counselors, but hopefully this one is at least poly-friendly.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Magdlyn]

Amazon.com : sex at dawn christopher ryan

It's available on audio.