Boyfriend not getting enough time

[katja24]

Hello all! I haven't posted here in a long time, and am coming up against a new challenge that I thought I'd try flushing out here.

Brief background: My life partner and I have been together for almost 11 years. We opened up our relationship 6.5 years ago. He has been dating my best friend for over a year and she now lives with us. I have been dating my boyfriend for over a year.

Current situation: This is my boyfriend's first poly relationship, and he is my longest relationship since my life partner and I opened up. We have been fighting more and more the last couple of months. It has been a constant theme that he doesn't feel like he gets enough time with me. I have been stating clearly that I have been giving what I can, which is about 2 nights a week, which often includes a weekend day. We are still in love and still connect really well emotionally when things are calm, and really well physically and sexually. It is painful for me to know that his needs for more time are continually being unmet (which I can certainly imagine is painful for him). He does not have an interest in dating anyone else, which is totally fine, and I am also feeling a lot of pressure to be there for him in ways that I can't be (seeing him many days after work, being able to have more spontaneous dates, etc). I have also been feeling a push against his pull- that is, the more he tells me that he is upset that we don't spend more time together/I choose to do other things with my time besides seeing him, the less desirous I am of spending time with him. He has explicitly told me that he wouldn't necessarily choose to date a poly person/someone who has another partner, but that he is dating me because he wants to date me. (An aside: my therapist has told me she hasn't seen this dynamic ever "end well.") I am pretty constantly worried that he suspends disbelief that my life partner even exists, and would just prefer that I be monogamous. I also don't feel like he respects my time as an autonomous individual, and he often assumes that if I am not having a date with my life partner, then I am free to see him and that I should see him if I am not seeing my life partner.

I feel stuck and I think he does too. There's a lot more to our story that I captured above, but I think that's the essence of it. Any suggestions for what to do with time, communication, and boundaries?

 

[GalaGirl]

I guess I don't know what to say. I'm sorry you struggle with this... but WHY is it a struggle?

• If all you can give is 2 days a week? And he wants more than that?
• And he wants to pretend your life partner doesn't exist?
• And he doesn't respect you choosing where you want to spend your free time? He wants all your free time to be for him?

You guys could part ways. Because it doesn't seem compatible. Why bang heads on wall keeping the struggle going? Rather than accept this isn't a runner and stop struggling?

I am also feeling a lot of pressure to be there for him in ways that I can't be (seeing him many days after work, being able to have more spontaneous dates, etc). I have also been feeling a push against his pull- that is, the more he tells me that he is upset that we don't spend more time together/I choose to do other things with my time besides seeing him, the less desirous I am of spending time with him.

I could be wrong. But it sounds like him trying to make you be his "life raft." And you not wanting to be that. And maybe this whole thing is draining/sucking you dry and you are tired of it.

He has explicitly told me that he wouldn't necessarily choose to date a poly person/someone who has another partner,

Then he could not date poly people/people with other partners.

You are poly and have another partner. Therefore you are not a good fit as a dating partner for him.

but that he is dating me because he wants to date me.

Then he has chosen to ignore his preferences.

He gets is 2 days a week. That's all you have to give. If that is not suitable, he can stop dating you and seek elsewhere.

Or you could stop dating him so it stops being a drag for you.

I wonder if he thinks you "owe" him because HE chose to go against his own grain / ignore his preferences? And he's trying to make you "pay?"

Rather than him thinking "This situation is not working out for me. Next time I should stick to my own preferences and not pick things out that I don't really like."

Is some of that happening here?

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hi katja24,

I suppose there's no way you could increase your time with your boyfriend to three nights a week? or, keep it at two but make one of the nights more spontaneous? If both of those options are impossible, then breaking up with him might be the thing to do. Of course, there's always the option of staying together even though both of you are unhappy with the situation, but that doesn't sound very attractive.

I'm sorry you find yourself caught in this situation, it sounds rough.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Marcus]

We have been fighting more and more the last couple of months. It has been a constant theme that he doesn't feel like he gets enough time with me

Square peg / round hole. This seems like a pretty clear mis-match of styles of relating.

 

[katja24]

Galagirl- So much of what your wrote is so insightful. I think he is trying to make me his "life raft" and I am not in a place of wanting to be that for him. I think has ignored his preferences, and is continuing to ignore his preferences. He is a romantic, and I hear him say that he loves me and would rather try to make it work than just break up. I'm pretty romantic myself, but I also know that there are reasons that people break up that have nothing to do with being in love with each other.

Kevin- I think your question about my ability to give him another night is a good one. In the beginning of our relationship, circumstances were different and we sometimes did have more time together. We have both acknowledged that the contrast to now, where I don't feel like I have the capacity to have more time with him, is making the current situation feel harder. I recognize that I am choosing to spend my time in certain ways, and that if I wanted to spend my time differently, I could probably see him more than twice a week. I also have another partner, several important friendships, and two jobs that I want to put energy and time into. I spent a few months of not investing time into my friendships recently, and that is not sustainable for me. But unfortunately it now means that my boyfriend is feeling less prioritized and important.

Marcus- this is a very good possibility. maybe it is this simple- I wish it made it feel easier!

 

[GalaGirl]

I think he is trying to make me his "life raft" and I am not in a place of wanting to be that for him. I think has ignored his preferences, and is continuing to ignore his preferences. He is a romantic, and I hear him say that he loves me and would rather try to make it work than just break up.

That's not "romantic" behavior to me -- getting himself into things that go against his preferences, wanting you to be his life raft, wanting to you give more time than you actually have.

You are not magic.

this is a very good possibility. maybe it is this simple- I wish it made it feel easier!

No break up is fun like "Whee! Let's make cookies!" You will feel what you feel.

I think it IS simple in actions though. You guys are not a match. Maybe after parting ways you will feel relief. That you no longer have to fight all the time about not spending enough time with him. Or about him trying to make you his life raft.

It's not your job to be his "life raft" or "fix" him if he gets himself into things that aren't suitable for him. Those are things he must do for himself.

I also know that there are reasons that people break up that have nothing to do with being in love with each other.

Glad you know that. Love alone is not enough.

Galagirl

 

[dragonette]

Others may be right that the two of you just have incompatible needs, but as a person who is in a somewhat analogous situation to your BF's, here are a few things to think about.

You say that earlier in your relationship you were able to spend more time with him. My experience is that I was always fine with whatever limits there were on my BF's ability to spend time with me, but once we had established a pattern of spending a certain amount of time, I found it upsetting when that changed. Perhaps this is a temporary situation and he'll calm down once things stabilize at the new level?

Also, you say that you are still very connected when things are calm. When I freak out about losing time with my BF, it's because I see patterns of when I feel connected to him, and the amount and quality of the time is a big part of it. If we had, say, a better texting relationship, I probably wouldn't need as much time to feel connected. Maybe you still feel connected at this level of interaction, but he doesn't? If not, is there a way other than more time that you could meet his need to feel connected to you?

I am also feeling a lot of pressure to be there for him in ways that I can't be (seeing him many days after work, being able to have more spontaneous dates, etc). I have also been feeling a push against his pull- that is, the more he tells me that he is upset that we don't spend more time together/I choose to do other things with my time besides seeing him, the less desirous I am of spending time with him.

The push-pull thing sounds worth discussing. I think it's fair for him to be sad that he doesn't get more time with you and want to share that with you sometimes. But it sounds like he's doing so in a way that makes you feel bad, and/or doing it all the time. Maybe it's not obvious to him that he's pushing you away. Can you tell him exactly what behavior is making you feel pressured and less excited to spend time with him? Is he phrasing things in a "you are doing something bad" way, instead of a "I'm feeling sad about this aspect of our relationship and I want to share that with you" kind of way?
Maybe when he complains you react defensively and guiltily - repeating your mantra of that's all the time I have to give, but not empathizing with his sadness nor telling him that you don't like his behavior? (I think it's possible to empathize with the fact that he's not getting what he wants, without making it your responsibility to give him what he wants.) Maybe better communication could get you out of this vicious cycle?

I am pretty constantly worried that he suspends disbelief that my life partner even exists, and would just prefer that I be monogamous. I also don't feel like he respects my time as an autonomous individual, and he often assumes that if I am not having a date with my life partner, then I am free to see him and that I should see him if I am not seeing my life partner.

I'm not sure what he's doing or saying that makes you think he is thinking this way. You could wait until he does or says something along these lines, and then say (in a curious, not challenging or critical tone) "when you say X, it gives me the impression you think Y. Is that what you think?" Maybe he's thinking these things but will stop thinking them if you have some frank conversations about it. Or maybe having those frank conversations will help him realize that he needs to end the relationship and go find a monogamous partner -- but I think that would be easier on both of you than you ending it because you are anxious and resentful about what you THINK he thinks.

 

[katja24]

dragonette, thank you so much for bringing in your perspective. I was hoping that someone in a similar situation to my bf would reply

-I agree that it makes a ton of sense that he would feel upset with the change in time. From what I remember, this has been a theme for the entirety of our relationship, but it has amplified in the last couple of months. He is identifying the last couple of months as being a big change, and from my perspective we have always had this issue.
-I think this point is interesting. We text every day, and I would say at least 2 days of the week we talk on the phone when we're not seeing each other those days. We send each other photos sometimes. We're connected on social media and send each other messages on those platforms as well. I honestly don't know how else we could be more connected, but it's definitely worth asking him about.
-Thanks for responding to my push-pull dynamic piece. I know that my empathetic responses decrease in strength throughout the course of a single fight, and that over the last couple of months, I have a smaller capacity to have longer conversations about his sadness and frustration. For instance, this morning I woke up to a string of texts he sent over night about his sadness and frustration, and what I sent back was "I am sorry you are not getting what you need and I am sorry you couldn't sleep. I promise I am giving what I can. I love you." I have told him explicitly that I think our conversations about time have become more polarized, and I have named the withdraw-pursue dynamic that I feel us doing.
-He told me explicitly a couple of weeks ago that he would prefer to not date poly. He loved that at the beginning of our relationship, our relationship was very separate from my relationship with my life partner. It worked out that way because my life partner was working nights and I hardly saw him, and so my boyfriend had little overlap with him as well. He wouldn't remember details about my life with my life partner or about him as a person (I told him at the beginning of our relationship and several times after, for example, what my partner did for work, and still didn't remember 6-8 months later. This is just one example). My partner can feel the disinterest when all of us are together, and my boyfriend has shown hostility toward what my partner does for work (he is a police officer, which flies in the face of my boyfriend's personal values; this is a huge topic that has impacted us all in the last several months). In addition, my boyfriend has routinely characterized my evenings as either "life partner night" or "boyfriend night"- implying that my time is either his or my life partner's. I have expressed to him several times, most recently a couple of weeks ago, that this upsets me because it makes it sounds like my time is not my own to spend as I see fit. That's all to say- this piece of the conversation is ongoing and what makes me most think that what we want (poly versus mono) may just not be compatible.
thank you so much for taking the time to respond

 

[Polysnow]

I skimmed the last few replies, but, one question did jump out at me - why isn't the BF living with you like your life partner's other GF? Is that an option? 2 nights would be low for me too - But he needs to respect your boundaries.

 

[katja24]

Polysnow, good question. I am not ready to share living space with my boyfriend, and I definitely do not feel like our relationship is at a place where we could do that functionally or well. My best friend and I have been close for 5 years, and she and my life partner and I all have very similar living habits, whereas my boyfriend does not share some of those. In short, he does not live with us because we (the two of us, and the four of us) are not in a place where that would be comfortable for any of us.

 

[MsEmotional]

My boyfriend is in a similar position. Something that I have noticed is that he calmed down a lot once we got to the place in our relationship/metamour relationship where he could just come over and hang out without it having to be a "date." Once he felt welcome to just be around and not have to have set planned nights together, it has made a big difference. He feels like part of the family even if we aren't ready to all love together yet.

 

[breathemusic]

The ownership of time thing needs to be squashed. Do you correct him on that every time he brings it up? If you don't, it's not going to change his habit (not that you should have to keep correcting him, but any time you don't he'll end up assuming it's ok). Things like that where he thinks your time belongs to your partners is going to fuel his feelings of "well if you're not having a partner night, why aren't you with me?!"

I definitely agree that this seems like an incompatibility. While it's reasonable for your partner to be able to share his feelings with you about this, there comes a breaking point where if you've both expressed where you stand, you just can't deal with hearing the same things over and over again. I've been there where I had to just say "hey, we can talk about this occasionally, but it's not going to be an hour long spiraling convo that goes nowhere every time, and it can't keep happening as often because I'm emotionally burned out on this topic and it's causing me to basically not care about the issue anymore. Which I know may not be the supportive thing, but it's the truth about the impact that it has on me."

Ultimately, b/f needs to take a hard look at what he wants from a relationship and reconcile that with the reality of what you can provide. Saying that he wouldn't normally date poly but wants to date YOU means accepting you AND the limitation that you come with. If he can't do that, then he doesn't really want to date you for who you are now, he wants to date you for what he wants you to be.

 

[dragonette]

My boyfriend is in a similar position. Something that I have noticed is that he calmed down a lot once we got to the place in our relationship/metamour relationship where he could just come over and hang out without it having to be a "date." Once he felt welcome to just be around and not have to have set planned nights together, it has made a big difference. He feels like part of the family even if we aren't ready to all love together yet.

This really resonated with me. When my BF and I first met, I had two good friends who lived in the apartment downstairs from me. I moved into the apartment above them in large part to be near them, and we agreed that since they are more social and we are all close, I could have a key and come in whenever I wanted (unless I knew there was something special going on there like someone having a date). We cooked dinner and watched TV together; I stopped by to chat about our days on my way upstairs; it was a wonderful "family" feeling.

Back then, I didn't care as much about how much time I got with BF. Since then, those friends have moved to another city, and I chose not to move with them in part because of BF. Now, the time I spend with BF is the only time I feel like I'm with "family" and can be relaxed in someone else’s company -- I spend time with other friends, but it takes energy.

I've been trying to develop more of a relationship with BF's wife, in hopes that we could get to a similar place where we could do "family" stuff together -- like cooking and eating dinner together at their place or mine, as opposed to going out. She seems resistant to that idea, and he's not willing to push, so it looks like that's not going to happen.

But if it did, I think I could be happy with less solo time with him. I know you don't want to invite your BF to live with you, but are there other ways you could make him feel part of the family? (That might sound crazy since he sounds like he is hostile toward your life partner, but perhaps that hostility is because he's feeling disposable, rejected or inferior?)

-I agree that it makes a ton of sense that he would feel upset with the change in time. From what I remember, this has been a theme for the entirety of our relationship, but it has amplified in the last couple of months. He is identifying the last couple of months as being a big change, and from my perspective we have always had this issue.

The time I spend with BF now feels very important, and I get quite upset over what I think seem to him like small differences in the amount and quality (i.e. weekend vs weeknight) of time we have together from week to week. Maybe the two of you see things differently because only one of you is depending exclusively on that relationship for certain things. (Not suggesting that you "owe" him anything just because he doesn't have other partners, though.)

-Thanks for responding to my push-pull dynamic piece. I know that my empathetic responses decrease in strength throughout the course of a single fight, and that over the last couple of months, I have a smaller capacity to have longer conversations about his sadness and frustration. For instance, this morning I woke up to a string of texts he sent over night about his sadness and frustration, and what I sent back was "I am sorry you are not getting what you need and I am sorry you couldn't sleep. I promise I am giving what I can. I love you." I have told him explicitly that I think our conversations about time have become more polarized, and I have named the withdraw-pursue dynamic that I feel us doing.

It sounds like you're being pretty understanding, and he's not being respectful of your needs and concerns, so it may be that this can't be resolved. That said, if you aren't ready to end things, you might try just encouraging him to open up rather than giving a response that although empathetic, shuts him down. When my ex-husband and I were going through marriage counseling, the therapist had us take turns having the floor, while the other one just said "tell me more" every time the person with the floor paused. It felt goofy and artificial for the person saying "tell me more," but it was amazing the things that I hadn't even realized I was feeling that came out when he did that, and how much closer we felt after those sessions. (They didn't fix our marriage, but we did have a totally amicable divorce and are still good friends.) Maybe he's bringing up his issue over and over because he doesn't yet feel that you truly understand what it's like to be him. Not necessarily because he expects you to change anything, but because he wants to feel truly heard.

Or, maybe he's trying to pressure you into being with him exclusively. I'm not there so I can't know.

-He told me explicitly a couple of weeks ago that he would prefer to not date poly. ... That's all to say- this piece of the conversation is ongoing and what makes me most think that what we want (poly versus mono) may just not be compatible.

The question is, would he prefer to be in a poly relationship with you, or would he prefer to be single and pursue a monogamous relationship? Those are his two options. He can prefer monogamy but choose to be with you, IF he genuinely accepts that he's choosing that. If he's constantly upset about the amount of time he's getting, or only staying because he hopes you'll be monogamous down the road, then he hasn't really accepted it. But perhaps he could get to a place where he does.

We all accept things about our partners and relationships that we'd prefer were different, so the fact that he'd prefer monogamy isn't necessarily the end of the world. It might be helpful to talk through with him what he thinks he would prefer about that structure, to help him think through how close or far your situation is from what he wants. If what he wants is a typical fully entwined, live-in partnership with sexual exclusivity, then he's probably never going to be happy. If there are some aspects of the structure that he does like, then maybe there's hope.

 

[dragonette]

One more thought: the two of you could consider seeing each other less -- say, once every couple of weeks. Why might this be better, when he says you don't see each other enough already?

I had been seeing my BF twice a week, including one weekend overnight date, until recently, and I think it's kind of an awkward amount of time. It's enough that he has stuff at my place, I make household purchasing decisions with him in mind, and I factor him into the planning of all my activities. But I can't count on having him around when I need him, can't really go on vacations with him, etc. Having something that's close to the type of relationship I want is harder in some ways, because it feels like a tease. I sometimes felt like I had all the obligations of a serious relationship, but not many of the benefits. I also felt too busy -- between two nights a week with him, a night with friends, a night for professional stuff and some time alone --- to try to meet new partners.

(I'm not sure this awkwardness is just because I'm otherwise solo. There's been a lot of drama in the relationship between my BF's wife, her married partner, and his wife, too -- I think BF's wife is basically in denial and thinks she is/wants to be her boyfriend's primary, even though she's married to someone else. I think maybe there's something about being such a regular part of someone's life, yet not being "family," that's hard).

So now we're seeing each other only once every 3-4 weeks. It's a difficult transition -- I miss him, and I'm not sure our connection will survive this structure -- but it's been nice to have some weekends that I can plan without taking him into account. He's not using up all the stuff at my house. I'm not expending mental energy every week on scheduling issues. I no longer feel like I have obligations, but no rights. Now I have neither, which means more freedom, which means I feel less resentful about what I'm not getting from the relationship. I don't feel like dating right now, but if I did I'd have more time and energy for it.

From what I've read, I think scaling back on, rather than ending, a relationship is a common strategy for solo polys who feel that a particular partner can't give them what they're looking for. Just something to consider.

 

[katja24]

Msemotional- Yes. I can see this making a huge difference. I definitely have wanted something more integrated, more "kitchen table poly," in which my two partners can enjoy sharing space and time with one another. Maybe this is still a possibility.

breathemusic- I really appreciate the validation for my boundaries and what I have said I can give. It is incredibly easy for me, when in relationships, to subsume myself and automatically give more than I can in the name of serving someone else's needs before my own. I am really trying not to continue this detrimental pattern. It feels like new territory, and I am trying as best I can to strike the appropriate balance between advocating for myself and my needs and being responsive to his and staying flexible.

dragonette- I absolutely think that that imbalance in our relationship statuses (me having a partner I live with and him not dating anyone else) is making a difference in the ways that we are experiencing this, and we have both named that.
I also completely agree with your insight that he doesn't feel heard or understood completely. When I say "I haven't been in your situation and can't understand 100%, but I can imagine I would feel similarly to you" he has said a number of times "You can't understand my feelings. This is unbalanced and unfair." I don't know how to help him feel heard without just giving him what he wants- it seems like the only way he will feel heard is to get what he is asking for.
And, maybe about a month ago, he voiced the question of scaling back our relationship so he didn't feel so dependent on it or me. I think I could probably manage scaling back, but I don't know. I don't know if he really could or not either. It's another question definitely worth asking about and revisiting though, because it potentially could give us some amount of connection with less of the distress.

 

[katja24]

We had another fight last night on the phone. He told me at one point that we used to have three nights together every week for "months and months," which prompted me to look back through my calendar and see for myself. We have spent 1-2 nights a week together the vast majority of the time, with a handful of exceptions (which include three 2-4 night long trips).
He asked me if I could go camping this weekend over text, and when I responded and said that I couldn't, I received several passive aggressive texts, and he again said "I love you. too much I guess"
I responded and said "I don't feel loved when you text me passive aggressive things. This doesn't feel like it's about 'loving me too much.' Loving to me is about accepting the other person as they are, benefits and limitations, and I do not feel that kind of acceptance right now. I want out relationship to work really badly and I'd love to problem solve shit with you, but I feel really closed off when you communicate that way."
He told me he couldn't talk anymore today.
This definitely feels like it's blowing up, and I am exhausted.

 

[Chrystee]

I'm new here.. and pretty new to poly.. sounds like a little jealousy since your others gf gets to live with you.. why can't he have an extra night, just wondering.

 

[Marcus]

"I don't feel loved when you text me passive aggressive things. This doesn't feel like it's about 'loving me too much.' Loving to me is about accepting the other person as they are, benefits and limitations, and I do not feel that kind of acceptance right now. I want out relationship to work really badly and I'd love to problem solve shit with you, but I feel really closed off when you communicate that way."

That was very patient of you.

For me, I've got exactly zero interest in dealing with that passive aggressive nonsense.

 

[JaneQSmythe]

Is there an introvert/extrovert aspect to this?

I needs LOTS of me-at-home time. This can include me-at-home-with-my-partners (but not with company - my boys don't need my constant interaction, they have each other). Even with the boys though, I treasure my home-alone time when I get it (when they are out socializing or asleep).

I can spend hours a day with my best friend SLeW - but that is not "home" time and she can tell when I am done "peopling" for the day and sends me home - even though she feels energized by having people around all of the time. (This is also why I generally don't have more than 3 close friends/partners at any given time.)

If your BF finds himself lost/lonely/bored when he is not interacting with others he may not understand why, if you are not with your other partner, you don't necessarily want to be with him - because he wants to spend every free minute with you. For him, "GF time" might be preferable to "friend time" (i.e. friends are the people that you hang out with when you can't hang out with someone who might have sex with you so you don't have to be alone).

Perhaps if you try to frame it along the lines of - "I can't get together on Friday just because my partner is out of town - I have a prior obligation, a date with MYSELF, my longest and most important relationship."

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry there was a fight.

"You can't understand my feelings. This is unbalanced and unfair."

If he feels this, and he isn't getting what he needs from this relationship? Why does he stay in it then? Why choose to participate in something he finds unbalanced and unfair?

Rather than simply accept this is all you can give right now, and that's all he will get here? Why try to force it to be something it isn't?

This definitely feels like it's blowing up, and I am exhausted.

I'm sorry you feel drained, exhausted. I still think it is not your job to "fix" him or whatever it is he has going on. It sounds like circle conversations that go round and round but go nowhere.

he voiced the question of scaling back our relationship so he didn't feel so dependent on it or me.

If he says he needs to back off because he's too dependent on the relationship or it is getting too weird for him? Not just scale back but part ways? You could be ok with that. Because it's sounding like it is getting to be too much for you also.

Square peg round hole stuff. Nobody is mean or evil or anything... but just not compatible like THIS.

No point in banging heads on wall about it.

Could sort it out one way or another. Change how "this" is.

Seeing each other twice a week does not work.

Seeing each other MORE is not possible.

That leaves...

• Try seeing each other less so it is less stressy.
• Or stop seeing each other entirely so it is less stressy.

Galagirl