Change in all the areas of my life...

*I don't get whose lives we're risking.*

You know this situation reminds me very much of how some people view laws. I've always found it shocking that some people's views of right vs wrong is rooted firmly into the laws of their land. Even if they are totally illogical. And a simple law change can flip a switch in some people and make them think something they argued was vehemently wrong, is actually not that big of a deal. Or vice versa. Homosexuality, drugs, alcohol, marital rape are a few examples.

A lot of people in this pandemic apply no logic to what people should and shouldn't be doing and instead blindly follow the rules.

One of my local friends has young children, one premature with asthma. She also cares for her elderly father who lives about 10 minutes away. She is a single parent and unemployed. Her father probably has dementia but has some mobility and health issues. He isn't the type to accept care and would probably slowly die of neglect if she didn't go round. He begrudgingly accepts her care but enjoys her company. She shouldn't be seeing him according to national guidelines. He should be isolating and she should be shielding to protect her son. But if she did, he would probably be dead by the time all this is over. She has no choice but to do all she can to limit transmission and go between the two homes daily. She's been vilified by her sister in law as has her father.
 

Magdlyn

Well-known member

Evie

Active member
What shitfest? Is it still there? I see I'm in that group, but I hardly ever read in my groups.

I'm guessing that would be "Pandemic Problem" with 222 comments as of a moment ago.
 

Magdlyn

Well-known member
I'm guessing that would be "Pandemic Problem" with 222 comments as of a moment ago.

Oh, thanks! I was scrolling down and got distracted before I got to it lol
 

Magdlyn

Well-known member
Holy crap, there are some holier than thou types there. Long screeds of accusatory words! Jeezzzz. They need to get a life.
 

icesong

Member
The shitfest on poly and kinky, yes, some rants by other people I follow there in the friends of friends category, many many many of the discussions on the big polyamory discussion group on FB, and perhaps the worst, some of my closer online friends who aren't here on this board and who *in general* I respect their ethical approach to life and poly, but who in this case are... living in NYC and scared to death and being Very Loud about how we just need to suck it up and deal with suddenly not seeing people, because it's a social justice idea.

The idea, of course, is to protect those who can't make the choice to hunker down - the people we're ordering all the grocery delivery from or working the checkouts and and and - because obviously there's some social justice issues there, in terms of who gets to keep their work and home job, who gets to be safe and who has to keep working in a job that suddenly became far more dangerous - but "essential" - just to keep a roof and food. Combine that with lower income people - who are working those "essential" jobs - being far more statistically likely to have the pre-existing conditions that make this thing more dangerous... how much responsibility to the world is there?

And combine that sense of social justice with the idea that if we just do All The Right Things we'll be safe... add a pinch of "terrible people who think everything the opposite of me are advocating to end the lockdown, they're wrong about everything else so they must be wrong about this too and I have to double down to try and compensate for their stupid"... and you get the perfect conditions for EXACTLY that kind of shitfest, where "rational caution" morphs into "morality police" and "flatten the curve and get it slowly to not overwhelm hospitals but accept that it's gonna eventually happen" becomes "we're just all gonna hide until there's a vaccine".
 
I can understand my metamour taking that position. He has both a condition that makes it easy to get viruses and hard to fight them AND a chronic lung issue which means he can't afford any more loss of function. He's signed something that says long term respiration isn't an option for him. You know like Hawkins and Reeve had ventilators on their wheelchairs that would breathe for them?
 

Vicki82

Member
I dunno, icesong. I hear what you’re saying, but it’s hard to see where there is a happy medium here. I’m in the school of, hide till there is a vaccine because I don’t think I could handle losing Henry, and he is high risk. He keeps telling me I need to worry about myself, too. I can’t be the only one who believes that it’s that dangerous. So where does that leave us? I’ve literally been going nuts not seeing Charles. Henry is telling me that it’s like night and day and he’s already wishing Charles won’t have to leave too.

And part of me doesn’t understand why if we didn’t just do a super hard lockdown where like no one leaves, why that wouldn’t just end this. Like literally no one leaves the house except medical people. Do one last burst and get supplies for two weeks. Then this would have to end right? Instead of drawing it out? The virus can’t spread with no contact at all. So that we don’t have to spend months and months apart like this. I’m literally losing my mind and it’s been less than two months. It’s hard because it feels like all the people who aren’t isolating are prolonging this and it means I’ll have to be locked up for even longer. So it’s hard not to be judgy I think.
 

Magdlyn

Well-known member
I dunno, icesong. I hear what you’re saying, but it’s hard to see where there is a happy medium here. I’m in the school of, hide till there is a vaccine because I don’t think I could handle losing Henry, and he is high risk. He keeps telling me I need to worry about myself, too. I can’t be the only one who believes that it’s that dangerous. So where does that leave us? I’ve literally been going nuts not seeing Charles. Henry is telling me that it’s like night and day and he’s already wishing Charles won’t have to leave too.

And part of me doesn’t understand why if we didn’t just do a super hard lockdown where like no one leaves, why that wouldn’t just end this. Like literally no one leaves the house except medical people. Do one last burst and get supplies for two weeks. Then this would have to end right? Instead of drawing it out? The virus can’t spread with no contact at all. So that we don’t have to spend months and months apart like this. I’m literally losing my mind and it’s been less than two months. It’s hard because it feels like all the people who aren’t isolating are prolonging this and it means I’ll have to be locked up for even longer. So it’s hard not to be judgy I think.

I am so sorry it's triggering your anxiety so much, Vicki. I know there's nothing we can say that could help you, but I wish we could

My partner has anxiety and she was doing very well. Until yesterday. She had a meltdown about how her colleagues want to do Zoom get togethers, since camp won't be in session this summer. She's introverted, and also keeps a very low online profile because of her hatred of privacy invasion from corporations and governments. So doing Zoom would be the 9th circle of hell for her.

It's not even a requirement. It's just supposed to be a fun thing, but she hates the idea. But she also doesn't want people to think she hates them!

So she had a meltdown about it yesterday, and went into a semi fugue state, only to come out of it enough to over-drink last night, to the point of puking earlier today, and I doubt she'll emerge from the bedroom until evening. Arggh. Poor Pixi.

So you think if all Americans except medical staff would just isolate completely for 2 weeks, the virus would die off? There are more essential workers than nurses and doctors. There are nurse assistants, lab technicians, medical researchers, hospital custodians and maintenance workers, clerical staff, ambulance drivers, EMTs, fire fighters, sanitation workers, water treatment plant workers, electric company workers, grocery store workers, police, truck drivers, subway workers and bus drivers, farmers (cows need to be milked!), repair people for all kinds of equipment, postal workers, UPS drivers, homeless shelter workers, Amazon workers, government workers, such as governors, etc. The list goes on and on!

And not everyone can store 2 weeks of groceries in their homes. Low income people might have tiny kitchens and not even have a refrigerator.
 
Last edited:

Dagferi

Active member
I live in a very economically depressed area. People here cannot afford to isolate any longer. They have not received their promised unemployment due to delays and break downs of the system and cannot afford to be off work any longer. People cannot feed their families or pay their bills which are now coming due. How the hell are people who live paycheck to paycheck going to quickly make enough money to pay their debt? Landlords are individuals not corporations here and many people were pushed into mortgages that are 40% their household income because mortgage companies will not finance more affordable properties.

There is a whole Nation beyond NYC, LA, and not everyone has the same experiences or resources. I love it when those who come from economic privilege want to lecture those living hand to mouth.

The counties here are revolting against our governor and are going to reopen with or without his blessing. Local law enforcement has flat out said their are siding with citizens and will not enforce the governor's decree.

Honestly we have not been hit hard by disease here. Our local level 1 trauma center has less than 14 hospitalized cases in a 550 bed hospital. They have only had 30 cases total most transferred from other hospitals. I have been at the hospital/doctor a lot due to a noncovid issue. The doctors here say that we just need to get back to life and isolation makes our immune systems worse. I am a severe asthmatic and studies have shown so far that we are actually less vulnerable to COVID.

Both my husbands have to go to work everyday. They are essential employees. One works in Aluminium extrusion and the other is a Powerhouse operator. I may have to go back soon myself. I work in veterinary medicine. The only reason we closed was due to being a wellness clinic not a full hospital.

People here do not have the resources to stock up on groceries. Many depend on SNAP and benefits are not stretching very far for many. Fresh meat alone is up $1.00 to $5.00 or MORE a pound. A lot of people here cannot travel to bigger more well supplied stores. They drive older vehicles and there is no public transportation. I traveled 90 minutes one way last week to get the supplies I needed. My neighbors here have the choice between a small Walmart and the a local regional grocery chain and the store here is not a large location for them so get get less replenishment than a store located in a better market. If you do not go first thing n the morning you may not get what you need.
 

Vicki82

Member
Sounds like a lot in the US needs fixing. People shouldn’t have to choose between starving and losing their homes, or risking their lives and the lives of others.

LOL Dagferi, I don't live in a big urban center. But your comment says much more to me about the social changes that need to take place, than about privilege. People aren't slaves and shouldn't be treated like them or like lab animals.
 
Last edited:

Magdlyn

Well-known member
Dagferi, I understand you live in rural PA. I just want to point out that there are millions of lower to lower middle class people in NYC, LA and everywhere else. That's why the term "urban" is often synonymous with AA/Hispanic. Brown people suffer in big cities. And they don't have the benefit of green trees, grass and cleaner air, as in the beautiful surroundings in more rural areas.

I've lived in rural PA, and visited it a lot, since my ex h was from a small town outside of Williamsport. His parents were low income. His dad was a milk man and a factory worker. His mom raised kids and/or worked a cash register at a drugstore. At least they could grow a garden.
 

icesong

Member
Digressions on politics aside...

Artist and I talked more. I think in some ways he’s hurting as much as I am but he doesn’t feel he has a choice - and I think the other half the problem is he (for many reasons) thinks he can isolate enough to not get it at all, while I’m just doing the quarantine thing as a delaying action. It’s fatalistic, I suppose, but I’ve never felt like I had that much control over the universe and I’m just not capable of the obsessive level of cleaning / isolating / etc that reducing my risk to zero would take. Maybe if I was higher risk I would be, but I suspect it’s just not a thing my ADD brain can do, looking at the lack of control I exert over the rest of my life.

I keep trying to tell myself maybe this is in some ways not the worst thing for our relationship. I mean there’s something to be said for being forced to actually use words and not just use our bodies to express everything - certainly I’m having to be more honest than I’ve ever been about exactly how emotionally I had come to depend on him, and he’s having to actually talk to me about how he feels and why - I know that seems weird to say five years in but something about our dynamic has always lent itself to a certain ability to just love and not talk about the subtleties. I’ve been writing erotica which is helping push the limits of exactly where our D/s dynamic is going to end up when we are back together (i hope, anyway, from his comments about it.) And we’re spending two evenings a week on the phone, instead of just one date a week, so in some ways there’s almost more time there? I’d sort of like that to continue after all this ends, which I suppose is going to be another conversation.

And that’s... sort of the crux of it in some ways. I think the one thing this quarantine has definitely told me is that in some ways my deliberately unentangled approach may not be serving me as well as I thought it was, and I’m definitely having a bit of crisis of faith on whether I was just fooling myself that actual non-hierarchical polyamory was ever really a thing.

I don’t know how to separate the emotional from the practical here. (Not that i ever really truly do.) But all my “love means braving the literal fire swamp” training is telling me that him keeping himself (and to some degree me I suppose) safe is somehow either cowardly or proof of lack of intense passion. Never mind that I don’t actually live in a fairy tale - certainly there’s no Miracle Max to bring someone back to life if they die of this thing. (And I’ve had two friends/acquaintances die in the past two days, one Covid-19, one not, the former a stroke victim who picked it up in a nursing home and the latter a diabetic who had been on dialysis for years finally wearing out. Even with that level of predictability it’s still a lot.)

I mean, not that I really expected Artist to just abandon ArtistWife to live by herself, and there’s no other situation I can actually imagine the choices being made happening like this. On the other hand, I’m still feeling a little raw from last summer where ArtistWife and her partner broke up and Artist was just wildly unavailable, and I’m having a hard time disentangling that from this, disentangling either from my fear of rejection/abandonment, disentangling that from my fear and dislike of couple privilege... it’s a lot of moving parts. And some part of me just wants.... a lot more commitment that that can’t/won’t happen again. Still scared to ask for that though, really.

And I keep worrying that I’m being a bad partner to Knight, and apologizing that I am - but I have such emotional whiplash right now. How the fuck do you emotionally navigate something that feels like a long term slow motion breakup despite all assurances and intellectual belief that it is not, while still being present and caring to a partner who’s mostly being wonderful? It’s even worse than what I said about feeling angry and grateful about the same person, same action, all at one time.

I mean, I could pretty easily just wallow in the angst of this, in a sort of “only happy when it rains” way - listen to ””Without You” from Rent and “I Miss You” by Adele on repeat (the latter is a really good song for those who don’t know it), write bad poetry about missing my love, all the things - seriously that would be very easy for me, like slipping on an old glove. With more effort, I can double down on the intimacy of being trapped like this with my partner and my meta+, and my kid, double down on the reconnections I’m making online with people I haven’t really been close to in years, and generally use the quarantine for good ends. (I mean, Ginger and I have been talking a lot and that’s a pretty interesting connection too.)

What I can’t do is both at once. So I vibrate between the two, which just makes it weirder. It’s one thing for that to be the case for a day or two... but being torn like this for months on end, with no real end in sight? (Artist won’t even commit to some marker that will make him be willing to be with me, so I could just obsess over stats instead. I mean, he’s willing now to do the social distance date thing, but that would be more torture than it would be good. As I’ve told him, the only way I can handle this is by tricking myself into believing he’s actually very far away, distance wise. If I was to be in his presence and not touch him, there is no way on this planet that I’d be able to believe he still loved me no matter what he said. There’s just not. )
 
Last edited:

Vicki82

Member
Hugs. You are heard. I know how much you must be hurting because the things you say are really resonating with me, too.

I'm glad Knight is there for you, though.

My counselor said the same thing about having social distance dates and how they were better than nothing, but I can't really see that, either. I feel like it would hurt more than not seeing a partner.
 

icesong

Member
I suspect it doesn't bother people who aren't as touch-empathetic, or at least doesn't bother them as much. Like for some people the seeing is more important or the talking to or whatever. And all of those things ARE important but still.
 

Vicki82

Member
I'm with you. I went and read that thread in the Poly & Kinky on FL that was referenced and the dismissive way some people talked really bothered me. It's not about the sex. Sex is awesome but that's not what I was longing for. It's just that intimacy of touch and it hurts not to have it when you desperately want it, and that is just as valid. It's okay to want or need both, and to feel messed up when you have no idea when you can get it.
 

PinkPig

Member
I think socially distanced visits are great for friends and family members, not for life partners. I can't imagine being able to maintain social distance while in their presence. I am so sorry you're both hurting.
 

icesong

Member
Today’s been a hard day. Like, a “I can’t even attempt to meditate to calm down because I start going into a panic attack / anxiety spiral” day. I... the news keeps getting worse and people keep getting stupider and things aren’t getting better and I’m so very very afraid that it’s going to be longer to come than it has been already. (Hell, part of me is somehow afraid that I’ll never see Artist again, and that’s where the panic comes from. )

It doesn’t help that I ended up having a bit of a fight with Knight last night - Artist is physically absent, Knight ends up being emotionally absent on a romantic level, and me? Every abandonment issue I’ve ever ever ever had - and I was adopted at 2 so you can imagine how many that might be - comes out to play.
 

Vicki82

Member
Hugs. Is there something you can do for yourself, for self care? What kinds of things can you do on your own to relax a little?
 

icesong

Member
It was phone and movie date night with Artist so that helped, but the long term is still there...
 
Top