Charting Our Course

I've changed my signature... "Best Friend" isn't really anymore. He and I are still friends, but we rarely speak; he's busy planning his life with his girlfriend Star, and so I've only heard from him once in the past month. And that was to ask me for a ride to Star's place because she'd borrowed his car and it broke down. So I've eliminated him from my signature.

Meanwhile, "Brick." Brick and I met a month or two before my 16th birthday. For three or four years, we alternated among being friends, being more-than-friends, and not speaking at all. Then we settled into just plain friendship. Shortly after Alt was born, Brick and I lost touch entirely.

In 2005, ten years after the last time I'd seen him, I ran into Brick. By then he was married, and apparently his wife was far less than thrilled about him talking to me. (He'd told her about his history with me.) I didn't hear from him again until 2010, after I was married to Hubby. We kept in touch for a few months, then lost touch again.

Last summer, we reconnected yet again, and this time, Brick has been a consistent part of my life. He's become friends with S2 because of their shared love of music, and has hung out with S2 and me a few times. (Brick refuses to meet Hubby...) He's the closest I've had to a brother in my life, and at this point he's designating me his sister, so I've added him to my signature since I'll probably be talking about him more.

And now that I've explained that... next post...
 
I spent most of last week, after the discussion with S2, trying to figure out what to do.

There's a very high probability that I'm going to get hurt in this situation. I'm not a big fan of getting hurt.

I'm also aware that my perception tends to be off. And it's moreso than usual right now. A month and a half ago, give or take, my doctor added a second antidepressant to the one I was already on. At first it seemed to be helping, but for the past several weeks, I've been more depressed and less motivated than even when I'm not on meds at all. Recognizing that, I knew I wasn't in a headspace to make definite decisions about my relationship with S2. Especially not a decision that I wouldn't be able to take back.

I talked a lot to Hubby and Brick about this. Hubby doesn't know S2, really; they've only met once. But Hubby says he sees how happy I usually am to have S2 in my life, and he feels I've benefited a lot from the relationship, so he thought I should maintain it.

Brick said that as far as he's concerned, S2 is the guy who SHOULD be in my life, and is far better than any of the other guys I've had relationships with. He also said that the times he's hung out with S2 and me, he's seen very clearly how much S2 loves me, even if S2 can't say it.

At one point, I was sure I'd made up my mind to stick with the relationship, but then something hit again. By Saturday morning, when I was getting ready to go to S2's for the weekend, I wasn't sure what I was going to do, and was leaning more toward calling it off.

Fortunately, I was able to talk to S2 about it. I told him I'd been weighing the pros and cons of the relationship. I told him I hate that he's so stressed about it, and that I don't know any way to end that stress other than ending the relationship. And I said that it's a high probability that the stress is ultimately going to become more than he can handle, and I'm going to get hurt.

But as I was talking and he was listening, things became clearer, and I finished by saying, "I had to decide whether to continue with this knowing I will get hurt, and I've decided you're worth it."

He took my hand and said, "So are you, and that's where the stress comes from. You're worth so much to me that I want to brag about you to everyone, and I can't."

He reassured me that right now, he doesn't even want to consider ending the relationship. He's happy. He also said that the day before, he'd gone to visit his mother, and had started telling her more about me, including that this isn't just "dating", we're in a relationship. He hasn't told her the thing where I'm married yet, and he may never be comfortable doing so, but she knows I exist. He'd told her some about me before, but now he's adding to what he told her last fall.

So for the moment, things with both Hubby and S2 are good.

Hubby and I celebrated our 5th wedding anniversary on Friday. Based on my saying we don't spend enough time together, Hubby had planned to take me to dinner at the restaurant where we had our wedding rehearsal dinner, but I had to take Country to her dad first. By the time I got back from that (it's a nearly three-hour round trip), I wasn't in the mood to get dressed up and go out in public, plus it was almost 8 pm and I was too hungry to have to wait 30-45 minutes to be served. So we ended up ordering take-out and watching TV together on the couch for a while, which was just as good because we were spending time together, and it was a lower-pressure thing than going out would have been.

As for the medication issue I mentioned, I've been on the first medication for several months with no problem. The second medication is one I took for a few years and stopped about 10 years ago, and I'd had no problems with it back then. But apparently the combination of the two is backfiring. I've felt more depressed in the past month than I usually do. It's been more difficult for me to motivate myself to do anything at all, and I've been sleeping a LOT.

I talked with both Hubby and S2 about it this weekend. Hubby said he's noticed that, while I usually have "up" days and "down" days, lately I've been having "down" days and "further down" days. S2 said he's noticed that I'm not even mentioning my writing lately, and that I seem to be struggling with wanting to work on our music.

I have an appointment scheduled with my doctor a week from today to follow up on the medications, and I'll be asking him to take me off the second one. Hopefully that will help. Before I was put on the second one, I was struggling, which was why I asked for additional meds in the first place. But I'm struggling more now than I was then, so something needs to change.
 
It's been an odd week. For one thing, I've barely seen S2 since last weekend. He had an appointment Tuesday night, so our usual Tuesday together didn't happen. This was a kid weekend, so usually I would have gone to his place Thursday, but since it was school break, he had Spikes and Beads from Thursday morning on. Even if he hadn't, I wouldn't have gone out there on Thursday night, because Country had a minor medical procedure scheduled for Friday.

So other than taking a walk around the city during his lunch break on Wednesday, I haven't seen him. I've heard from him a couple of times--he texted this morning to see if Country's doing okay--but that's it. I know a week isn't a long time, especially when we did see each other briefly during the week, but for me, that kind of gap leaves me feeling very disconnected from the other person. I should be seeing him Tuesday night as usual, so hopefully that will help.

Since it was school break, Country was home every day, which meant I couldn't practice my music. That put me a little off-kilter; any change in my routine usually does. With her and Alt both here, I wasn't really able to have any privacy, and sometimes I just plain need that... It isn't that I don't want my kids around, it's just that sometimes I need space. And there isn't really anywhere in my apartment to get space when everyone else is home.

Country also had things scheduled all week... At least her college class was canceled on Monday because it was a holiday here. (It was *public* school break week, not *college* break.) Tuesday I had to take her a couple of places. Wednesday she had her class. Thursday I took her to visit a college about 100 miles away, and Friday was her medical procedure. So there was a lot of running around.

Yesterday, Hubby didn't have to work, so I left him to take care of Country (she'd recovered almost completely by then, but she's on prescription painkillers and I won't allow her or Alt access to them, so either Hubby or I has to give them to her) and took off for a few hours. That helped a lot.

Meanwhile... For a couple of weeks now, I'd been feeling like I should try to get in touch with Guy. That's my ex-boyfriend, for those who haven't read this whole blog; he and I were together from April 2013 until October 2014, when something happened between us that imploded the relationship. I've talked about it in this blog, I think, so I won't get into details, but basically something happened, I was very upset and triggered by it, and he was upset that I was upset. Despite it, I wanted to try to maintain a friendship with him, but at that point he couldn't handle it because he couldn't handle being constantly reminded of what he'd done. So he sent me a message completely cutting ties.

I was furious with him, but I also felt guilty. What he did was partly the result of him misunderstanding something I'd said. Also, when he and I got together, he was coming off a very bad ending to his previous relationship (it had been 18 months, but he was still struggling), and he told me I gave him back his hope that he could have something good in his life. I felt like I'd taken that away from him, even though his actions were what ultimately caused the break-up.

Anyway, I've been feeling lately like I should contact him. Wednesday or Thursday, the feeling got stronger, and by yesterday my instincts were shouting at me so loudly I literally couldn't concentrate on anything else until I tracked down Guy's number and texted him.

To my surprise, he answered, and told me that a week ago, he found out his father's cancer treatment is no longer working, and that was the "last resort" treatment. Between that and dealing with problems with his 8-year-old and the boy's mother, Guy's been struggling a lot. In the past, I was the only one he could really lean on...apparently he needed to lean on someone now. We talked for a few hours, and hashed out some of what happened last fall.

As far as I'm concerned, Guy and I will never be what we were. Last summer, I posted here that, when visiting him in Michigan, I felt like something was broken, and I talked to him then about downgrading to friendship. That was another piece of the guilt I felt after what happened last fall; if I'd stuck to my guns about being just friends last August, what happened in the fall wouldn't have happened. But right after he told me he would be fine with just being friends, he found out he was going to be sent to my area on business, and I backed down and kept the relationship intact until October.

So between that and the incident in the fall, I can't feel about Guy the way I used to. Right now, I'm not even entirely sure we can be friends. I know I did the right thing by contacting him; I feel that very strongly. And he can't hurt me anymore. He's in Ohio right now, and will be interviewing for a non-travel position in Michigan in a couple of weeks, so it's unlikely he'll be in my area again. Even if he is, I won't see him, and I definitely won't be visiting him in his area. From a distance, the worst he could do is *say* something hurtful, and I can handle that. Assuming he even stays in touch, which he may not.

I talked to Hubby about it before I contacted Guy. He wasn't sure it would be a good idea, but when I told him about Guy's father, Hubby agreed I'd done the right thing. He knows how hard it is for me to turn my back on someone who's hurting. I haven't told S2 yet; it's something I feel like I should talk to S2 about face-to-face, which means I won't have a chance until Tuesday. I think he'll be upset; he was far angrier with Guy last fall than Hubby was, and doesn't take well to anyone who has even the potential to hurt me. But S2 also knows that I reach out to people when I know they're hurting, and says that's one of the things he admires most about me, so hopefully he'll understand.
 
Doing much better than last post. For one thing, I've been completely taken off the medication that was negatively impacting my depression, so I'm much better able to focus and to be positive. And since Country was back to school this week, it's been a much more normal week routine-wise. Plus bonus for me, she chose to skip her college class on Monday because she was still uncomfortable from the jaw procedure, so I didn't have to pick her up as I usually would have.

For another, I saw S2 Tuesday night, and was able to have some extra spur-of-the-moment time with him last night. (It wasn't a Thursday I would usually have seen him, since this is a kid-free weekend.) Tuesday, we had a pretty good talk. I told him about getting back in touch with Guy, and he was supportive of that. Mostly we just cuddled and watched TV, because he's been fighting off a severe cold and wasn't in the mood to really do much.

Last night, I saw him because I'd asked Country to do something about the stacks of books she had on folding tables around our living room. The place was a disaster, and had been for a couple of years now! Monday, I finally got sick of it and went out to buy some shelving and a closed cabinet. I also, on the way home from getting those things, found a glass-front bookcase for free on the curb, so I snagged that. I did some rearranging and cleaning, but Country asked that I let her take care of her books.

Yesterday, when I reminded her after school that she was going to put away at least some of the books, she said, "Well, you're going to S2's tonight, so I'll do it then, because I prefer to clean when I'm alone in the house." Even though I've explained to her several times that if she's going to her dad's that weekend, I don't see S2 on Thursday, she can't get it straight. So I figured since she wanted me out of the house anyway, and since he and I didn't have our usual time together last week, I would see if he was up for company last night.

He was, though he was doing laundry as well. We had dinner at a Thai place next to the laundromat and then went back to his place for a couple of hours. He had told me the day before that on Saturday, he has to go to his ex's place for a few hours to stay with Spikes and Beads while his ex and her fiancee go to a work party, and after they get home, S2 and I are going to a rock concert in the same city. I thought he meant to have me meet him at the concert venue... but last night, he said, "Saturday might be kind of awkward."

I asked him why, and he said, "Well, you meeting my ex. That might be a little awkward for you."

Apparently, even though he hadn't clarified it to me until just then, he'd intended all along for me to go with him to stay with Spikes and Beads, meaning I'll be meeting their mom and stepmom. I don't have a problem with it; I'd been wanting to meet them anyway, but hadn't mentioned it because I didn't think S2 would be okay with it. But I know when I left my first husband, when he got involved with other women I wanted to meet them so I would know who was around Alt and Country, and I figured S2's ex would be the same about anyone who's around Spikes and Beads.

Before S2 and his ex separated, after she came out as lesbian, she suggested polyamory to him as a way to maintain the marriage while enabling her to have a relationship with a woman. She didn't talk much about it, but she did date a few women, including her current fiancee, while she and S2 were still together. So out of everyone in S2's life, his ex is the one most likely to understand and accept our relationship.
 
Meeting S2's ex and her fiancee went well. They're both really nice, and despite S2's concerns, there was no awkwardness at all. He told me afterward that they don't yet know who I actually am in his life, but he is planning to tell them now that they've met me.

Over the weekend, I said something to him about how maybe I could see him every Thursday (since Country seems to think I do anyway), and we could use the additional time to work on our music. He said, "I'd rather not do that right now. You know I need my space."

I do know that, and I'm trying not to be hurt by him saying it. To *me*, asking to see him two additional days a MONTH is not excessive and wouldn't hugely interfere with his "space." And I am hurt by it. I'm feeling hurt by a lot of things in our relationship lately, and I know some of it is me, not him.

But on the other hand... Since the conversation a couple of weeks ago when I asked if he loved me--believing he would say "yes," since he'd heavily implied he did last fall--and he said "I'm not sure", I've felt like he lied to me last fall. Yes, he only said, "Likewise" when I said I loved him, but that's still, to me, saying he loved me.

I've tried to reason with myself about it. Last fall he said likewise; a couple weeks ago he said he wasn't sure but that *part* of him loves me. It isn't completely a contradiction. But one of my hugest issues with anyone is honesty, and I feel like he was dishonest with me last fall. And I feel hurt that after I tried to process that discussion with him a couple weeks ago, he said something like "This always happens, there's always an imbalance between how I feel about someone else and how they feel about me." (That was the same conversation where he said I'm worth all this, and that his stress about the relationship is because he wants to "brag" about me.)

Reading back over the past several posts here, I see how much I've been going back and forth about this relationship. I don't know why I'm struggling so much with making a bleeping decision. Honestly, the decision that currently seems most logical to me is to end the relationship.

For a long time, he was the only one in my life who I could truly say I trusted. Hubby has slowly eroded my trust over the years we've been together, and put some major dents in it shortly after we opened the marriage. Guy, who I was still with when I met S2, destroyed my trust pretty effectively with the one incident back in September.

I trusted S2. I fell asleep with him holding me when I wasn't able to even do that with Hubby. He said a couple of months ago, "Don't worry, I'm not going anywhere, I can't see a time when I wouldn't want you in my life", and I believed him.

I don't believe him anymore.

I don't trust him anymore. Not the way I did.

I can still fall asleep with him, at least...

Marriage is work. (Which has always annoyed me, because I've always thought that if you love someone, things should go smoothly, but apparently that isn't realistic.) I work on my marriage to Hubby because at the moment I have little choice, due to my inability to earn an income and my promises to Country and Alt. And because divorce is complicated.

I'm not married to S2. I don't have to work on shit with him if it's causing me too much pain. I don't rely on him for anything except music, and if I can't manage to compose or play songs without him, I'll just sell off my equipment and call it done.

Right now, I am not seeing any benefit in putting the effort into a relationship with someone who isn't even sure he wants a relationship. With someone who says "Anytime" when I thank him for letting me come over on an unscheduled night, but then says "I need my space" when I ask him if I can see him another day or two a month. I don't feel like I can lean on him when I need to lean on someone, because I don't trust him not to turn his back.

I used to love going to his place, because I got to see him and because I got to just be me for a while instead of "Mom/wife", but I don't feel that way anymore. And because he always acted happy to see me. Cuddled with me. Told me he'd missed me during the days since the last time we'd seen each other. Interacted with me.

The last several times I've been supposed to see him, I've had anxiety attacks, and my brain has gone into a whirlwind trying to come up with an excuse not to go. He used to be the only person I could think about spending time with *without* feeling anxious, and now that's gone.

I don't want to end this. I value him in my life, and every time I think things really suck, he does something like introducing me to his ex and her fiancee, or buying me a pair of hiking shoes because he knows I can't afford them and he wants me to be able to go hiking with him without my feet hurting or twisting my ankle or whatever.

I told Hubby yesterday that I'm feeling a lack of trust with S2, and that I keep thinking I should just call it quits. Hubby asked if I still have good times with S2, and when I said yes, said that he thinks I should hang in there because he believes the relationship is good for me.

Then again, with all the times I've been hurt by something Hubby's said or done, I'm not sure he's the best judge of what's "good for" me...
 
KC43 said:
Marriage is work. (Which has always annoyed me, because I've always thought that if you love someone, things should go smoothly, but apparently that isn't realistic.) I work on my marriage to Hubby because at the moment I have little choice, due to my inability to earn an income and my promises to Country and Alt. And because divorce is complicated.
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Oh, this saddens me. One should always have choices! These seem like "reasons" to stay together that don't justify the pain. It seems like there should be times/seasons that are "work" (when one person is changing/evolving in a direction that requires some adjustment) that are MORE than made up for by much longer periods of joy and contentment. Is your husband putting in the "work" as well? Or is the burden of that on you as the "dependent" partner?
 
I do have a choice: Stay with Hubby, which means Alt and Country live with me, Country gets to stay in her high school until graduation, and I keep the promises I made to Alt and Country when we moved in with Hubby; or leave, be homeless, send Alt and Country to live with their dad which would mean Country having to change schools, and break the promises I made to them.

Everything's a choice, if you want to be technical about it... but some choices just plain aren't viable.

Hubby does put in his share of work on the marriage, but only when I bring problems or issues to his attention, and then only after a whole lot of grumbling because he's better at solving other people's problems than solving ones in which he's a contributor. The burden of identifying the problems and getting him to sit down and discuss them is on me, but he and I do work together to solve the problems.

As for things with S2... a few months ago, he offered me the option of using his apartment as a quiet work space (writing and music) while he's at work. A few weeks ago, he said he was surprised I hadn't taken him up on it yet. This past weekend, he said he was open to me using his apartment as a music practice space, because he knew Hubby's work schedule would be changing.

Monday, I texted and told him I wanted to take him up on the offer, and that I wanted to discuss it when we saw each other last night. He didn't answer the text.

Last night, I brought it up... and he said, "I might be okay with that when I'm here, but not when I'm at work, because I would have to give you my key and my landlord might not want me to give a key to anyone else."

Which is total bullshit... first of all, someone who's renting an apartment can give a key to anyone they bloody well please, and second of all, he didn't hesitate to give a key to his ex when he moved into the place.

And the sad thing is that was exactly the response I'd expected. I knew he was going to go back on the offer as soon as I said I wanted to take it.

I kind of lost it with him. I tried to speak calmly--despite being in tears--but I told him that from my perspective, every time he did something like that, he was breaking his word. I also told him that I felt lied to because of the "likewise/I'm not sure I love you" thing, and I reminded him that he knows damn well I have trust issues, and that my one hard limit for ANY relationship is honesty. If someone lies or breaks their word, for me, that's grounds to call it quits.

We sort of hashed things out. (I actually like having discussions like that with him, because they never become heated or accusatory the way discussions with Hubby often do.) He apologized for making the offer about using his apartment without completely thinking it through, and he said he didn't remember exactly what he'd said when he made the initial offer a few months back, but that he'd gotten it set in his mind all along that he *meant* he was okay with me occasionally working at his place when he was home.

I pointed out that that wouldn't work, given that he'd talked about "needing space," and if I was using his place to practice when he was home, I would be invading his space.

I also told him that I was hurt by him saying that when I asked about adding the additional Thursdays to our "schedule" of me going to his place. I told him that while I understand that he likes solitude, and that he has a lot going on and sometimes just needs to be alone, to *me* two extra days a month isn't a huge impact, and that it hurt me when he said he needed his space because it made me feel like I'm a burden or an obligation to him instead of someone he actually wants to be around.

He took my hand and told me I matter, and that he really, really sucks at relationships but wants this to work, whatever it takes.

I told him--and meant it-- that he doesn't suck at relationships as much as he thinks he does, because despite the issues, this is the best relationship I've had. Even though I struggle with balancing my need to be around him with his need for space, and even though my "landmines" and mental health issues definitely play a role in complicating things, there are more good times than negatives with him, and those good times are what I've always thought a relationship should be like (and, for the most part, what's missing from my marriage).

We didn't totally resolve the issues. He's still not letting me use his apartment as a practice space, and he's still not willing to add the additional Thursdays to us seeing each other. On the other hand, he did say that *sometimes* he will be willing to see me an additional day, or to let me come over to practice while he's out doing laundry or something, so that's an improvement.

On the other hand, he understands more now that I'm not trying to impose on him, but just trying to balance our needs and to make sure I'm practicing the music often enough to improve; and I understand that he does want me around, but having people "in his space" is difficult for him (he's said before that he struggled with that even with his ex and the boys while he was living with them), and that if he seems to be "breaking his word", it may be just that he's forgotten what he said, and it's okay for me to remind him and ask him to discuss it.

The space thing really is understandable, when I stop to be logical about it. He's the youngest of six, four boys and two girls. He always had to share a room with at least one of his brothers, and there were other family dynamics which meant that having to be around other people at home was usually not a good thing. He started hiking and playing music as ways to escape from all of that; hiking got him out of the house entirely, and music enabled him to shut himself in the basement and be left alone for at least an hour or so. So I really want to remember not to take it personally when he says he needs space, and to remember that he has reasons for it just like I have reasons for my stuff.
 
This past weekend, S2 and I took Country and Spikes on an "excursion" to check out a 17th-century farmstead and a beach about an hour north of me. And to get ice cream, because there has to be ice cream.

It was an okay day. Country and Spikes get along really well. But I was having anxiety issues and at one point, after we had ice cream but were still in town, had to ask S2 to take the kids to a couple of stores they wanted to check out while I went to a store I wanted to see and had a few minutes' breathing room. But other than that, it was good, and S2 had no problem taking the kids to the other stores, or with taking a few minutes to sit with me at the beach while Country and Spikes went shell-hunting nearby.

The anxiety was partly because things are really not working well right now between S2 and me, and I wanted to try to talk to him but couldn't with the kids there. And I'd spent the two previous days breaking down about the biggest thing that isn't working, which is sex.

Sex is a MASSIVE issue for me because of all the bullshit in my past. I'm sure I've blogged about that before. (I'm typing this fast before I pick up Country for a doctor's appointment, so I don't have time to look back through the blog to see what I've said.) Being able to talk to either Hubby or S2 about sexual issues between us is kind of beyond my reach most of the time.

Friday, I was so upset about it and so frustrated that I broke one of my own rules for myself (I don't make rules for others, only for me): I actually talked with Hubby about my sex life with S2. Not details. Just that things are not going well in that department, and that I wanted to be able to talk to S2 about it but couldn't.

Hubby somehow translated that as, "KC's sex life with Hubby isn't working well, so Hubby needs to make more of an effort." Which is fine, because one of the problems I have with both men is that I feel like they hang back and wait for me to initiate sex and suggest things I'd like to do, and that's another thing that's beyond me.

In the early days of our relationship and marriage, Hubby kept telling me to initiate if I wanted sex, but then got angry with me when I did because I "wasn't giving him a chance to initiate." (At one point, we didn't have sex for five weeks because I decided to give him the chance. He was stunned when I finally caved and told him how long it had been.) And Hubby told me from the time we met that if I wanted to try something sexually, he was up for it, but then every single thing I suggested, he shot down. Nothing wild; stuff like "let's have sex in the car." And he didn't shoot down the ideas by saying he didn't want to. He shot them down with judgmental statements like "Adults don't do that" or "That's only for people who don't have beds." Which made me feel like I was WRONG for wanting to try those things.

Since one of the effects of my past was a strong belief that I'm WRONG to want to have sex at all, Hubby's reactions just reinforced that and made it almost impossible to talk about sex with him or anyone else.

He knows the damage he did. We have talked about it, and he tries to make things better. He opened the marriage so I could try the things he didn't want to try, but at first that backfired because I heard it as "You're so fucked-up for wanting to try those things that I don't even want you anymore, so other men can have you."

One of the good things about Guy was that he's completely nonjudgmental about almost everything, especially sex. One of the good things about being back in touch with him is that he agrees that we're better off as friends, but is willing to still be a sounding board/advisor/general listener for me. I tried to get hold of him Friday night but he sent my call to voicemail, which also contributed to my anxiety on Saturday.

I was able to talk to Guy last night, and he helped me sort out some of the stuff and reminded me that believing I shouldn't enjoy sex or am a bad person if I do is "bullshit." And yesterday I wrote a lot about the issues in my private journal, and that really solidified some things and turned my thinking around, too.

But I still need to bring it up with S2. Right now I feel like we're friends who occasionally have sex because it's there, rather than being in a relationship with sex as an important component, and when he doesn't do anything sexual at all unless I bring it up, that makes me feel like he doesn't care whether we have sex, let alone whether it's good.

Since I have a hard time expressing myself speaking, because I lose my thoughts and/or get too emotional, I wrote him a letter. It started out as 5 pages typed; I winnowed it down to 2 pages, and that's the best I can do. I'm going to bring it with me when I see him tomorrow night, and we'll see if it does any good. I want to have him read it in front of me so we can discuss it and clarify anything that needs to be clarified; I just don't trust myself to be able to say it all out loud without messing it up somehow. It's partly about the sex issues, and partly about the communication issues where he gets horrified if I take him up on offers he makes, or he expects me to know what he's thinking without him actually telling me (like the thing where he planned for me to go with him to his ex's to watch Spikes and Beads, but didn't actually tell me that until about the fourth time he mentioned that *he* was going, even though he'd planned all along to have me with him), or changes his mind about things but doesn't tell me he's changed his mind until I bring up the subject.

It's either going to make things better, or it's going to result in him deciding I'm too needy and the relationship is too much work. Either way, I've done the most I can do. And as Guy said, if S2 decides that I'm too needy or whatever because I'm trying to make our relationship better, he doesn't deserve to be in a relationship with me.
 
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KC43 said:
It's either going to make things better, or it's going to result in him deciding I'm too needy and the relationship is too much work. Either way, I've done the most I can do. And as Guy said, if S2 decides that I'm too needy or whatever because I'm trying to make our relationship better, he doesn't deserve to be in a relationship with me.
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I love this whole post, but most especially this part. Guy is right, if he decides you're "too needy" or whatever to even work on the relationship then thats his decision and makes him unworthy of you. I have been told this in the past myself that I am, "too much", so, don't let them throw their own issues at you. I hope the discussion does work, and if it doesn't it sounds like you have a good support network, and there is people on here who are supportive and kind too.

Good luck :)
 
Thanks, Starlight. It's weird that the man who's caused me the most problems since I started the poly thing, is the one who's most supportive and gives the best advice about my current relationships...Weird in a good way, but still weird.

I've had partners in the past tell me I'm too "high maintenance." (By which they meant I needed reassurance, cuddles, and to feel safe, which they considered immature and too clingy.) Hubby and S2 both know I've had people say that to me... and they find it hilarious, and tell me that if "high maintenance" actually meant acting the way I act, they would want a lot more "high maintenance" women around. LOL
 
I talked to Brick the other night about the situation with S2. He said the same thing as Guy, that if S2 wasn't willing to deal with the issues or to accept what I had to say, he didn't deserve me.

Fortunately, everything went well with S2.

I brought the letter with me as planned, and explained to him that I was really worried about having him read it because I didn't know how he would react, but that I needed to express something to get it out of my head, and I was feeling a little unhappy with a couple of things in our relationship and wanted to bring them up so we could work them out. He asked if I wanted him to read it while I was there or if that would be too difficult for me, and I asked him to read it.

He read it twice, and then set it down and said, "I just wanted to make sure that got into my brain so I won't forget any of it."

We had a great talk. He acknowledged and validated what I'm feeling, and clarified a couple of things from his perspective that he hadn't expressed clearly before. He told me that one of the reasons for his holding back sexually was that he didn't want me to think he was only interested in sex... I pointed out that he takes me on drives all over the place, cooks for me at least once a week, and is going full out with music composing, recording, and band formation solely to indulge *my* dream, so there is no possible way I would think he was only seeing me for sex!

For the first time, I was actually comfortable talking to him openly about sex. I've tried to be open before, but was never *comfortable* with it.

And then we had the best sex we've had since the first time...:D

He also said something about relationships being way outside his comfort zone, that when he joined AFF, he had no intention of having anything more than a fuck-buddy or maybe a friend-with-benefits. I said, "Thank you for rolling with the way things have gone, because a lot of people would have said, 'Relationship? Hell no! Goodbye!'"

He said, "If it had been anyone but you, that's exactly what I would have said."
 
Apparently the good, positive shit from that letter was just that... shit. And temporary. I saw S2 over the weekend, and it was yet another round of "Oh, no, I need my space, you can't come here those days, you can't be in my apartment when I'm not around, I need my space, auuguhhhh!"

Uh huh. If he mentions needing his fucking space one more time, I'm giving him all the space he could desire. As in, buh-bye, fuck you.

I respect that he needs more space than most people. But I feel like *he* is disrespecting *me* by saying so every single time he sees me. I give him the space he's asked for. I've asked him over and over if he's okay with the amount of time we do see each other, and he always says he is. But then he turns around and finds it necessary to constantly remind me that he needs space as though I'm not giving him what he's said he wants.

I don't think he knows what he wants, but I'm pretty damn sure by this point that I'm not it.

I talked to Guy about all this a few days ago. Now that Guy and I've had some time off from each other, we've formed a solid friendship out of the ashes of the relationship that probably should have just been a friendship in the first place...and he understands me well enough that he's completely willing to help me navigate my marriage and my relationship with S2.

Guy told me to take what S2 says at face value. In other words, if S2 says I'm giving him enough space, believe it. If S2 says he cares about me, believe it. If he says he's happy with the relationship, believe it.

Sorry... actions speak a hell of a lot louder than words. If S2 says I'm giving him enough space but feels the need to tell me all the time how much space he needs, there's a serious contradiction there, and that means either the words or the behavior is dishonest.

I don't deal with dishonesty.

At one time, I trusted S2 as completely as I'm capable of trusting anyone. When he told me he wasn't going anywhere, I believed him.

I don't anymore. He wasn't honest with me about his feelings for me, and to me, that means anything and everything he says has the potential to be a lie. And when I'm faced with that potential with anyone, I default to believing they're being dishonest until they show otherwise.

With nearly every interaction, he proves that he's not capable of being honest, because there's too much discrepancy between what he says and how he acts. And Guy is full of shit if he thinks the *words* are honest and the *actions* aren't... Anyone can say anything. I could say I'm a 6-foot, 120-pound supermodel, but that doesn't make it true.

S2 can say he's happy with our relationship, doesn't want to lose me, wants to make this work, wants me to be happy, has enough space, etc., etc.....but that doesn't make any of it true. And I really don't think any of it is.

I don't think he's deliberately lying to me. I think he doesn't know where the fuck he is in his life or what the hell he wants, and so he's saying whatever sounds good at the time.

But I'm not respecting myself by letting him yank me around. And at this point, I don't know what if any benefits I'm gaining by keeping this going. The music? Sure, I won't be able to compose my songs or play them without him, because I can only do bass guitar and vocals and need him for the lead and rhythm guitar. But who the hell cares? I didn't do anything musical for decades. I don't have to do it now. Plus if I quit, I can sell off the shit I've bought and get a few hundred bucks that I could really use.

Hiking? I don't enjoy hiking. I enjoy hiking *with S2*, but the general activity isn't all that. I'm only doing it because he suggested it; it wasn't something I was all gung-ho about.

Somewhere to go that isn't home? Yeah. That's a good thing to have. I need a break sometimes from Alt, Country, Hubby, and all the stress and bullshit of apparently being the only responsible person in my household. But I can get away by just going for a drive or something.

Earlier on, S2 made me feel important and special. He made me feel like I was worth something. Like I mattered.

Now whenever I think about him or this so-called relationship, I feel like shit, because all the stuff I felt before was built on the bullshit lie that he loved me.

Keep in mind, those who read this... I know I go back and forth on this. I know my depression and anxiety play a role. I know all the things that people are likely to point out.

But I also know that I didn't start this blog so I could be reasonable and logical. I started it so that when I'm hurting or confused, I could randomly spew shit, even if I'm repeating or contradicting myself. And that's what I'm doing right now, because I've been going back and forth on this whole fucked-up thing with S2 for months, and I still am no closer to making a decision than when I started. Every time I come to the conclusion that I need to end it for my own dignity, he does something like his reaction to the letter last week, or like remembering that i'd asked if we could go for a walk on his lunch break yesterday and texting me to confirm it when I'd thought he forgot.

But at the end of the day, I seriously suck at interpersonal relationships of any kind, be it family, friendship, or love. And I'm exhausted from trying to understand what the fuck is going on with him while dealing with the fact that I haven't trusted or really wanted to be with Hubby since the bullshit he pulled after suggesting we open our marriage.

Right now--meaning at 10:28 a.m. Eastern time on May 22, when I'm typing this--I don't want to be with either of them. I want to be alone not dealing with anyone else, because that's the only time I feel even remotely competent as a human being. And it's the only time I feel like I have any self-respect or any respect from anyone else.
 
It was May 21, not May 22, when I wrote the last entry. *Today* is May 22. Wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey...

I had counseling yesterday after I wrote the last entry and brought it up to my counselor. She asked if I thought S2's behavior had anything to do with me, and I said I was pretty sure it didn't. It's about him. His fears, his issues, etc.

She asked why I was upset about it in that case. I told her that just because I *understand* someone's behavior doesn't mean I have to *accept* it if it's hurtful to me. I *understand* why Country sometimes yells at me at the top of her lungs, but that's still inappropriate behavior, and I still don't let her get away with it.

With some of the things I said to my counselor yesterday, I think she got more out of the session than I did.

But one thing I did get out of it was the words and concepts I needed to talk to S2 again. Some of the things I'd been trying to deal with in reference to the relationship had not been addressed by him at all, even when I'd brought them up before. I walked into his place last night ready to end things, but still wanting to give him another chance.

It wasn't easy to *start* the discussion. I'd figured out what to say, but not how to open up the topic. But we got there, mainly by me saying that as much as he thinks he sucks at relationships, I suck at them too, and I have a lot of trouble separating what I perceive and feel from what the other person might mean, because I don't know how to sort out what they mean if they won't tell me.

I told him that I'm realizing that sometimes, his reactions that are hurtful to me aren't about me, but that doesn't make them less hurtful. I reiterated that sometimes, since he said there's an "imbalance" in how we feel about each other, that I think my feelings for him are a burden to him, and that I feel like the pesky little girl following her crush around, and he's too nice to tell her to go away.

And then I said, "Do *you* see me that way? Do you feel like I'm a burden or a pest or whatever?"

At first, he was silent and then said something about not really being good at analyzing his feelings. I told him I wasn't looking for an analysis, I was looking for a yes or no. For either reassurance that he doesn't think I'm a burden or a pest, or for acknowledgment that he *does* think that. And I told him I'm afraid about trying to maintain this and of getting hurt, and that makes it hard for me to keep going sometimes. I also told him that I'm not putting it all on him; I know damn well which of my issues feed all this shit.

He said I'm not the only one who's afraid, and that he doesn't see me as anything negative at all. That he enjoys having me around, and I'm valuable in his life. And that he's sorry I've been struggling with this. He said he doesn't ever want to hurt me.

So back to sticking this out. I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean it as in, if things are good, I want to try to keep them that way, and I just hope they stay that way.
 
Love the Dr Who reference. :)
 
Thanks :)

Haven't been posting here because of the other stuff I'm dealing with, some of which I talked about in my thread in the Poly Relationships section. So I should probably update a bit...

Haven't been hearing from Brick lately. This isn't unusual with him. I've known the guy for 29 years, and he's always kind of drifted in and out of my life. That's just who he is. It bugs me, though, because he promised this time he wouldn't do that...His loss, though, if he can't keep his word and doesn't talk to me for weeks on end.

S2 and I aren't having any weekends together this month, which sucks. We usually spend two weekends a month together, when he doesn't have Spikes and Beads. But this month, he has them an extra weekend because their mom and stepmom are going to Seattle Pride at the end of the month. This coming weekend is the only kid-free weekend S2 has in June, and he's chosen to go for an overnight hike alone.

He has a right to his space, and we've talked before about how sometimes he wants a weekend to himself. But it really hurts that he has one weekend available this month and said straight out that he would rather not see me that weekend. Hurts, and makes me angry *because* it hurts.

I'm trying not to let him see that, though. Last week, I had a seriously rough week, and the two nights I saw him I ended up spewing out a lot of shit from my past and how it's impacting me presently. And all he did was hold me, reassure me that he doesn't think I'm a complete mess, and tell me over and over that he's my safe place and won't let me be hurt again. That goes a LONG way to helping me see that even if he doesn't want to spend time with me, he cares for me deeply. And it meant a lot that he didn't turn his back on me during those times.

Over the weekend, we took Country, Spikes, and Beads to a local museum village. I think Spikes kind of has a crush on Country, or at least is enjoying playing "little brother" for a change, because every time she walked even a few feet away from us, he followed. I think it got on her nerves after a while, but she didn't let him see that. She just took a boat ride by herself, and then went for a short walk while Spikes and I were waiting for S2 and Beads to catch up. (Beads needs one-on-one supervision and can't always handle activities or being told where to go or what to do, because he's nonverbal autistic, so S2 was sticking with him and I stuck with the other two kids.)

On Sunday, Country and Alt wanted to go to church. They usually go with Hubby's mother, but she wasn't going. I had told Country that after spending 7 hours walking around the village the day before, I wouldn't want to leave the house on Sunday, but it seemed important to her to be able to go to church, so I said I would take them.

I used to attend that church. I stopped after Hubby and I opened the marriage, because I felt like the folks at church were accepting me as someone I wasn't, and I don't deal with dishonesty well. I knew I wasn't doing anything wrong, and the course I was following relationship-wise felt right to me. So I stopped going to church.

The church has an "open and affirming" policy that says people's sexuality, gender identity, etc. don't matter in terms of being accepted and being fully active in the church. Since I was there anyway, I decided to talk to the pastor to see how far "open and affirming" actually went. I asked Alt to go with me, since she knows the pastor well and can usually fill in the gaps if I'm having trouble verbalizing. Country wanted to know what we were talking to the pastor about... and Alt said, "We'll tell you afterward."

Um... I deliberately *hadn't* told Country the truth about my relationship with S2... I glared at Alt and told her I didn't really appreciate her saying that, since now there wasn't much choice about telling Country what she wanted to know.

The pastor surprised me. He seemed pretty taken aback when Alt and I told him that in addition to being married, I have a boyfriend, and that it's all completely open and above-board. But after he thought about it for a couple minutes, he said, "You know, I understand what you're saying about needing to feel whole. I've always felt whole with just one partner, but I can see how someone else might not feel whole that way. And the Bible has a heck of a lot of men with multiple wives, so there really is a basis for what you're talking about. You're welcome here." (He also understood why Hubby's mother doesn't know, and that she CAN'T know because that's Hubby's one big condition for this whole thing.)

Meanwhile, Country was peeking through the window in the office door, so Alt went to talk to her--and outed me. Which I definitely did NOT appreciate, and told her she had no business doing that without me present. Haven't forgiven her for that yet. She's pansexual and gender fluid and would pitch a fit if I outed her to family or other people she knows in person, but she does it to me? Bullshit.

But Country took it well. She said she'd already pretty much figured it out anyway, and said, "I don't see why it's a big deal, as long as your man's okay with it. Is he?" I said yes, Hubby's completely okay with it, and she said, "Then I'm cool." She also understands that Hubby's family, and her father and his family, can't know the truth, and she understands *why*.

So now if I feel like going to church on the weekends I'm not with S2, I can. (I could on the weekends I am with him, but it's an hour and a half drive, and the Sundays I get to spend with him are the times when we're usually best able to connect with each other, so I'd rather not give them up.) And I can be completely honest with Country now instead of making excuses about rehearsing music or going to concerts or friends' parties with S2, though those were always *honest* excuses, just not the whole truth.
 
I don't know whether I'm being overly judgmental or what. I probably am, but I feel how I feel.

There isn't a lot I'm judgmental about. For the most part, I figure if someone does something, it's none of my business.

But I don't get the whole thing of posting penis or vagina pictures on dating sites, even sites like AFF that are geared for sex. And I especially don't get someone posting a dick pic when they're involved with someone... and they don't tell her they posted it, and they don't send her a pic.

Not that I would have looked at it if he sent it. That kind of thing makes me uncomfortable. And I may have told him that, which may be *why* he didn't send me a pic. But it's the principle of the thing.

His dick is his to do with as he pleases. If he wants to stand in the middle of Main Street and wave it at the passing cars, that's up to him. But he posted it on a dating site, after telling me two days earlier he still didn't want to look for anyone else because he didn't have time and didn't want to upset me. And I found it by accident, because he's on my friends list so I got a notification that he'd posted a new pic.

If he'd sent the pic to me as well, or even told me he'd posted it, I probably would have been able to work my way around to being okay with it. But I found out about it by accident. And now it's like... yay, I get to touch the cock that every random stranger on AFF has seen. Woohoo.

I've been on the verge of dumping his ass so many times, and this might be the final straw. I can get past a lot of things, especially when he's willing to discuss the problems. I don't know if I can get past this.

I don't care if other people post pictures like that, or do full-on fucking in front of cams for people to watch. That isn't any of my business. I don't judge that. I wouldn't do it, and I wouldn't view the pics/watch the camming, but it's their choice what they do.

It's different with S2. I'm in a relationship with him. He's agreed to my need to be told about certain things. (Pics weren't one of them, mainly because it never occurred to me he might post one like this.)

When he does something like that, it IS my business by virtue of the fact that he and I are in a committed relationship. And I don't like that he did it, and I don't respect him for it, and I don't know whether that committed relationship can continue under this circumstance.

Guy told me not to jump to conclusions. He thought I was upset because I assumed the pic meant S2 was looking for someone else to fuck. I told Guy I'm not jumping to anything. I'm upset about the FACTS: He took a dick pic, posted it on his profile, didn't tell me it was there, and didn't send me a pic. I don't know that he is looking for anyone else, and I"m not assuming he is. But if that *is* why he posted the pic, he'll have broken a promise to me: He promised that if he ever decided to look for another partner, he would tell me *before* he started looking, so I would have time to prepare myself for it.

Hubby (who I went to out of sheer desperation because I couldn't get hold of Guy for several hours) thinks I'm overreacting. He says it's okay to feel however I feel, because feelings happen, but that considering ending the relationship because of one pic is an overreaction.

Maybe so, but am I really going to be able to look at S2, let alone touch him, without feeling icky about him flashing his dick around? I don't know. I've never been in a situation like this. The guys with whom I've been in actual relationships haven't posted anything like that. The guys who were only FWBs to me, I didn't care what they posted because it wasn't any of my business. They were just friends who I fucked because we were bored or whatever. (And for the most part, they were just friends... I can only think of two guys I would call FWBs who I had sex with more than once, and each of them, it was only 3 times.)

S2 isn't answering my texts. I didn't text him anything about the pic, because I didn't find it until after I figured out he wasn't going to answer. I was texting him stuff about Boston Pride, which was yesterday. He went camping, which was where he was when he took the dick pic, but since he goes on AFF on his phone, he obviously had signal. Plus he'd sent me some nature pics on Friday from the same area, so he was able to send and receive texts then.

I wouldn't want to talk about this via text anyway. This needs to be at the very least a phone conversation. And that might be better; even though understanding people on the phone is difficult for me, at least I wouldn't have to look at him. Usually I need to look at someone's face during a discussion, but in this case I think it would be better not to. But once he leaves the campsite, he's going to a family graduation party (he had a niece and a nephew who both graduated high school this year, so their parents combined the party) and then to rehearsal for his other band, so I wouldn't be able to get hold of him at a good time to talk.

I feel hurt. I feel angry. I feel betrayed. These are all valid feelings, whether or not the *reason* for them is valid. I'm trying to set aside whether him posting the pic was right, wrong, or neither, and just focus on my emotional reactions and whether I can get past them to continue the relationship. And whether it's worth it to even try this time, given how many other times I've been hurt and angry and *have* tried to push through it to make things work.

To be fair to him, I do recognize that in his perception, he wasn't doing anything he shouldn't have been. It's his dick. I don't have ownership of it, nor do I claim to or believe I should. I think I did tell him that porn, explicit pics, etc. make me feel uncomfortable and creepy, like I'm doing something wrong by looking at them, so I'll give benefit of the doubt on that one. He wouldn't send me a pic that he knew might make me uncomfortable.

He's gone to nude beaches and stuff, so to him, showing his body isn't a big deal regardless of the context. He would probably show it more if it wouldn't mean risking an indecent exposure charge, which would fuck him at work since he works for a law firm. And according to Guy, most men don't think showing their dick is a big deal anyway; it isn't necessarily even sexual, it's just "Hey, look what I have!"

So looking at it from a more objective perspective, I can see his likely reasoning. I know S2 well enough to have a pretty good sense of what he was thinking--or not thinking--when he posted the pic. That makes the pic itself a little less of an issue, but there's still how *I* feel about him having posted it.

Most people--probably even at least some of the people reading this--would say I'm being overly judgmental, that I don't have the right to judge him or to say anything about what he does when it doesn't involve me, that I'm being jealous or trying to "own" him or whatever. That's fine. People can see things how they want, but they aren't me, and they aren't in this relationship.

He and I have made certain agreements, boundaries, and promises to each other. He didn't break any promises (unless he actually did post the pic to try to attract another partner, but I don't think that was on his mind at all). I don't think he actually broke any agreements or boundaries, either. But he did wander past the limits of my comfort zone with a partner. Whether or not I have the "right" to be upset, I am. Emotions happen. I am not comfortable with his choices of actions, particularly since I found out by accident and not from him. To me, that feels like he was hiding having done it.

Then again, he never tells me when he adds something to his profile. He didn't even tell me when he changed his status from "Separated" (from his ex) to "Attached" (to me). I found that out the same way I found this pic.

I don't know. I'm going to have a lot of thinking to do before I see him on Tuesday. *If* I see him; one thing I'm pondering as a gray area between forcing myself to be okay with this or breaking up with him, is telling him I don't want to see him for a week or two. Fortunately, Alt and Country have gone to church with my mother-in-law, and Hubby's going to work in a few minutes, so I'll have some time alone to think and process. I thought about going to church, but at this point I would probably end up thinking too much and crying, since my mind always wanders during sermons and such, and that wouldn't be good.

This isn't about "someone" posting a pic of his penis. This is about *my boyfriend* posting a pic of his penis and not telling me.
 
For whatever it's worth, I'd be skeeved out by it, too. I don't have a problem looking at porn, although it's something that would rarely ever even appeal to me, but if a lover of mine posted dick pics online, I would seriously question his common sense and I know my respect for him would go down a notch or two. I think I'd have a hard time getting past it.
 
Thanks, nycindie. It helps to know that I'm not way out in left field to feel uncomfortable with this.

As I think I said, he posted it on his AdultFriendFinder profile. A lot of people on AFF have dick or pussy pics on their profiles. He didn't make it his main pic; it's in a separate "album" on his profile, but it's still visible to anyone who decides to check out his pics.

After a LONG discussion with Guy about this (and other deep-rooted issues brought up by it), I decided to deal with it in what's probably a weird way: Instead of confronting S2 about the picture, I texted him and said, "Hey, I saw your new pic on AFF. I think I need a closer look at the subject of that picture." Figuring that if he's going to post something like that anyway, I might as well twist it into something that might help me work on the "boring sex" issue we've been having...

He was at a nudist resort when he took the pic; that's where he went camping (which he hadn't told me, but he didn't have any real obligation to). So it at least makes sense that he was sleeping nude...

He said he wants to take me camping there next month, which ought to be bizarre as fuck, since I'm not usually comfortable being nude for anything, not even sex or showering...But I want to go, because it's a comfort zone boundary I kind of feel like I want to try to push. (And, as in most if not all nudist resorts, you aren't *obligated* to be nude if you're too uncomfortable with it.)
 
By yesterday, I was angry about that pic on S2's profile again. The whole way to his place for our usual Tuesday night date, I couldn't decide whether I was going to keep seeing him or end it.

When I got there, I decided I was going to tell him how I'd felt but not end the relationship.

The fact that I've said to Hubby and Guy so many times over the past several weeks that I felt like I should end it with S2 before he could, because it would hurt me either way but at least if I did it I would know it was happening... I should have done it. I knew something was off, but as I sometimes do, I ignored my instincts.

Last night at first, he was if anything more affectionate than usual. Other than that, things were the same as always, but I felt something off, and it wasn't only my indecisiveness. I told him how I felt about the picture, and that I knew I was being judgmental, and he understood and validated how I felt. He cooked dinner for me and then we went out for ice cream.

When we got back, we set up dates for the two camping trips we'd talked about, as well as figuring out when he has Spikes and Beads and when Country's going to be home (her summer schedule is weird) so we would know when we would have time alone together and when we could do more "excursions" with the kids. We talked about band stuff and made some plans with that. We MADE PLANS.

And then we were cuddling on the couch. I wanted there to be more than just cuddling, but every time I kissed him, even though he kissed back, he kind of deflected it. Mostly he just held me. And then he had to leave the room, and when he came back, he sat beside me holding my hand and looking like he was thinking serious thoughts. I knew then.

I asked what he was thinking. He said, "A dark, difficult question. Would you be okay with downgrading this to platonic?"

I couldn't answer, because I would have either burst into tears or completely gone off on him. Even though on some level I've sensed this coming, especially since the day he told me he wasn't sure he loved me, I didn't expect it right then. It didn't help that he said something about the romance not "progressing" the way he thought it should, and there not being any "romantic passion."

Progressing? He'd always said he didn't even want a relationship, so I have no clue what "progressing" he meant, unless he was talking emotionally. He also said something about how you can't love someone just because they're an amazing person and you think you should love them.

He pulled the "It's not you, it's me" cliche, though not in those exact words. He said it isn't anything I'm doing or not doing, the spark just isn't there right now, and that he thinks more than anything it's because of his impending divorce--he's going to a lawyer the week after next to finally file the papers--and some other stresses with the boys and his job. He said right now, he has too many distractions to handle a relationship, and that it would have been the same with anyone. (And he's said before that he wouldn't have even started a relationship with anyone other than me, anyway.)

When I could finally talk, I told him that my immediate reaction was hell no, I couldn't handle being platonic, I didn't want to see him anymore. But that as I processed, I remembered telling him last week that as he goes through his divorce, I would do whatever he needed me to do to help him--even if that meant backing off. And I don't break my word. If this is what he needs me to do, this is what we do. I told him I was hurt and sad, but that I would be okay with it because I wanted him to have what he needs.

He said he still cares about me a lot. So much that he didn't know what the hell he was thinking, because I'm the most amazing person he knows and he must be an idiot to even be saying that. So much that he wanted to "go off" on himself for hurting me.

He said he doesn't really want anything to change. He still wants to keep our standing dates. He even still wants me to spend kid-free weekends with him, and said it's up to me whether we share a bed or whether I sleep in his bed and he sleeps in Beads's bunk bed. He said everything we'd just put on the calendar would still happen. I said something about needing to change my plans for the camping trip (sexual plans, that is) and he said I didn't; when I pointed out that "platonic" means nonsexual, he wasn't quite sure what to say.

I said, "Basically, it sounds to me like nothing's changing other than what we call this. We aren't saying relationship or boyfriend or girlfriend anymore, but everything else is staying as it is." He agreed that's pretty much it. I told him he would have to change his status on AFF from "attached" and he shook his head. I said I didn't know what to tell the other people in my life about this, because we hadn't really broken up, and he said I didn't have to tell them anything, he didn't mind if they thought we're still together, because we *aren't* broken up. We just aren't where we were. Or something.

Sounds like I'm letting him walk all over me. Believe me, I do recognize that. It sounds like he's sending mixed messages, wanting to "have his cake and eat it too". I recognize that as well. When I talked to Guy about this earlier today, he went off on me because he was worried that I was being a doormat. The "have his cake and eat it too" was Guy's statement (and was exactly what I knew he would say), and he muttered something about S2 just wanting a fuck-buddy.

But I'm doing what I feel is the right thing to do. S2 obviously doesn't just want a fuck-buddy, if he's willing to sleep in Beads's bed when I spend weekends there. He never gave me a clear answer when I flat out asked whether our friendship includes benefits, so that's something we're going to play by ear, I guess. He said he can't be in a relationship right now, but that this now becomes "whatever we want it to be, and goes wherever we want it to go."

Right now, he needs a friend more than a girlfriend, but he made it clear that right now, he needs *me*. He doesn't want me out of his life.

I'm going to talk to him a little more tomorrow when I see him, after we've both had time to process a bit more, and tell him that he needs to be sure that he really does want to keep things the same as they've been with tweaks. If he's sure of that, I'm okay with it. But I'm also going to tell him that if he's thought it over and thinks we shouldn't see each other for a while, or should see each other less or whatever, if he tells me *then*, I'll accept it. As long as he's honest and open with me throughout this time, I'll accept it.

But if he tells me tomorrow night that he's sure, and then starts waffling and pulling away and ends up saying "Nope, not seeing you anymore"--that's when he'll lose me for good. If time goes on and he realizes he isn't okay with seeing me and says "We've been trying this and it isn't working, I'd like to not see you for a while, but I want to keep the door open between us", that's okay. I'll deal with that. That's honest. But if he goes into this with open eyes, knowing what he's decided on and what he's told me, but doesn't really try to see if he can handle it this way, I won't accept that. As long as he COMMUNICATES with me where his thoughts are going, it's good. It's if he doesn't communicate and then springs a change on me that I won't be okay with it.

I checked his AFF profile this morning, because I knew he was going to make some changes. The first sentence of the narrative part now says that he's taking a break. He's removed the sentence about being in a polyamorous relationship. But his status still says "attached." And he took down the dick pic.

He's been using "polyamory" to describe our relationship, as have I. He uses "polyfuckery" to mean people who have sex with multiple partners but not relationships and not love.

Last night as we were discussing and processing, he said, "I guess what we have now is poly-what-the-fuckery." I guess that's as good as any way to describe it...We're still going to see each other, we're still going on "excursions together. He's still taking me on the whale watch he promised for my birthday. We're still doing the band, and as I pointed out as a dark humor silver lining, we might have more time for music now if we aren't doing relationship-y things. He promised he'll still tell me if he does decide to get involved with someone else, but that right now that's the furthest thing from his mind. Most importantly from my point of view, he knows I still love him and that doesn't bother him; and he said he's open to "upgrading" again in the future once some of his other stress and distractions have lessened.
 
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Yesterday I was upset about the situation with S2, as well as about situations with Country, health insurance, and a couple of other things.

Country's been in an awful mood all week. Getting pissed off about the slightest thing, ranting about all the things I don't do for her, etc. A quieter version of the temper tantrums she had when she was little. I've been mostly just trying to avoid her, because I don't want to feed into her bullshit. And because she knows the buttons to push, sometimes if we get into a conflict, she ends up triggering me. She's far too much like her father, unfortunately. And even though she's my child and I have authority over her, when she goes into "act like Dad" mode, I go into emotional "protect myself" mode...and that isn't good.

I'm not doing either of us any favors by not addressing the problems, and I recognize that. But avoiding her and ignoring the shit is better than exploding at her, because when I get emotional she completely shuts down, and that doesn't solve anything either. When I do manage to approach her in a logical, calm manner, she'll often deliberately trigger me because she knows if I get emotional, either I'll leave her alone or I'll say something she can report to her father. Fortunately, she's with her dad this weekend, comes back to finish up her school year, and is then going back to her dad for almost 2 weeks. Hopefully distance from each other will help.

Health insurance... Alt, Country, and I are on state health insurance. In the past two weeks, I've gotten conflicting letters from the state about what coverage each of us has, who our providers are supposed to be, what our premiums are, etc. And trying to call them never does any good because most of the people who answer the phones are just call center operators who only have access to the same information I can find myself online. So I've had to go to the nearest office several times recently to try to sort things out. And I had to go back yesterday.

On the plus side... Alt has a job now. Hubby has apologized for being an absent dickhead the past several weeks and is trying harder to make sure he actually comes home from work instead of staying down at the office all night to play video games, and to engage with me and the girls when he is home. He's facing a court hearing about a criminal traffic offense--ironically, the hearing is scheduled for my birthday--and is very stressed about it because worst case scenario, he loses his license for a few months and possibly spends a week or two in jail. Once that's over, I think things will be better. At least until something else stresses him out.

I spent yesterday after going to the health insurance office just driving around until it was time to go to S2's. I needed to clear my head, though it didn't completely work. Especially when I got a call from Country demanding to know why I wasn't home and bitching that she wouldn't be able to practice driving. Hubby was home, and had promised me he would take care of everything while I was gone, but apparently he and Country aren't speaking... I told both of them if they have problems with each other, they need to have problems with *each other* and leave me out of it, because right now I can't handle trying to play peacemaker between two people who don't want to make peace.

When I got to S2's--about 20 minutes after the phone call--I pretty much broke down. I told him that I didn't know whether I could trust that he wouldn't turn around and say he didn't want to see me anymore after all, and that I felt like I'd lost one of my only "safe places."

He said he still wants to be a "safe place" for me. He promised that he's not going to stop spending time with me. He said he doesn't really know what he wants, but when I said I thought it was just that the words "relationship" and "love" felt scary and pressurey to him, he agreed. He said he wouldn't be able to handle not having me in his life, because he cares a lot about me and because I'm the one person he feels like he can count on. He promised that he'll try to keep me filled in on how he feels and what he wants/needs, as long as he understands it himself. And he said he'll give me more concrete answers and be more definite about what he wants/needs when he sees me next week, because he's going to take time over the next few days to really think about it since he doesn't think it's fair to me to not have those answers.
 
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