Co-Dependency vs. Polyamory - feeling hopeless

[branches]

The Writer and I have been struggling with the concept of polyamory since I first brought it up to him in September. However, since then, some serious issues seem to have compounded for him.

The Writer is a self-described introvert, and since we started dating, has had very little contact with anyone outside of our relationship. He has no deep-rooted friendships (save his ex-girlfriend, who lives on the other side of the country), and gets all of his emotional fulfillment from me. Of course, in the beginning, we had that new-relationship-energy going on, and we spent a lot of time together and many of my other friendships were less present in my life, because we were still getting to know each other and exploring our (then-monogamous) relationship.

We've been dating for over three years, and moved in together about a year and a half ago. Since then, the new relationship energy has cooled (at least for me), and I have expressed interest in spending more time with other friends that I have been missing. I also work in an industry where I am constantly meeting new people and networking is extremely important. Maintaining those relationships is necessary, because it is what keeps me actively employed (as a freelancer, 90% of my jobs come through word of mouth).

Trouble is, Writer is extremely bothered by the lack of continued new-relationship-energy. "You never needed time to yourself before," is something he will say when, for instance, I want to get drinks with a co-worker, or if I want some solitude to read a book or browse the internet.

My realization that I identify as polyamorous was deeply troubling to him, and I think compounded some issues that have existed since early in our relationship that we were able to turn a blind eye to. The other day, he did a lot of reading about co-dependent personalities, and sent me a list of traits that he identified with very strongly.

Here are some of the traits that he feels are accurate:

• Feelings of low self-esteem
• People-pleasing (struggles to say no to people, sometimes self-sacrificing)
• Trouble communicating thoughts, feelings, and needs
• Fear of abandonment
• Feelings of powerlessness about his situation (namely his social life, but also his career)
• Lost sense of self outside of a relationship
• Centering his life around a single relationship
• Looking for the relationship to provide ALL good feelings
• Lack of interest in own life outside of the relationship
• Paralyzed by fear of separation
• Inability to initiate projects or do things on his own

It was a pretty intense list, and immediately made me feel afraid for the future of our relationship, because I have always considered myself to be a fairly independent person. He also described to me that he saw our relationships as being two halves of the same whole, but that I saw our relationship as being two whole people, together. He says that he thought I felt the same way as him, and is bummed out that I need alone time, want to spend time with friends on my own, or that I often feel overwhelmed by him wanting me to be a driving force for his projects (he wants me to co-write things with him, but it really stresses me out). He has said he doesn't know how to be a "whole" person.

Of course, these were all issues that existed before I brought up polyamory, they just weren't so glaring. I was definitely struggling more than he was, and he had thought that there was nothing wrong with his behavior at the time. Now, it seems so obvious and is really tearing us apart.

He has told me that he thinks he needs to figure out his co-dependency issues before he even begins to think about polyamory. While I can understand this, it feels crushing to me at the same time. I feel like he doesn't want to consider polyamory at all, and is looking for ways to put off thinking about it. He has also has admitted that he sees nothing wrong with being co-dependent, as he enjoys putting his entire existence into a relationship. I don't think that a co-dependent relationship is remotely healthy, and the harder he tries to cling to me and control me without really controlling me, the more I feel trapped and the need to pull away/escape to my outside friendships.

It feels like a snowball rolling down the mountain, picking up more and more snow and speed until it's a giant avalanche, and I am not sure how to stop it. I can't help thinking that polyamory might be a way to HELP him deal with his co-dependency issues, but he doesn't see it that way.

I was just wondering if anyone has advice with dealing with this sort of behavior in the past, and how I might be able to gently continue trying to help him understand polyamory, so that I don't feel like I'm giving up on my own needs. Most of my attempts to talk about polyamory, or even just the state of our relationship have been met with "I don't know what to say, there's nothing we haven't already said," and he doesn't like to revisit the unresolved issues. I think that comes from the issue he mentioned about having trouble communicating his thoughts/feelings/needs... but how can our relationship possibly survive if we can't communicate about anything?



EDIT: Perhaps I misspoke when I said that I thought polyamory could help. I only meant that, becoming more comfortable with his own independence and communicating and being more honest about his feelings would help him to over-come some of the uneasy feelings he has regarding co-dependency. Also, while he likes "losing" himself in a relationship, he also feels a lot of discomfort with his behavior, as he dislikes his lack of social life and that he hasn't done more to further his career. He has put a lot of energy into ignoring those things by, instead, focusing on our relationship, and I don't think he is very proud of that.

At the time at which I brought up polyamory to him, our relationship was fairly comfortable and safe feeling. Yes, it did bother me that he would prefer me to be less independent, but at the time we had assumed that was related to his self-described introverted feelings, but we were able to deal with those things rather amicably.

Forming very deep friendships has always been a part of my personality, and even as I met the Wolf (over a year ago) and Explorer (about half a year ago), I was always very honest with the Writer about the nature of our friendships, and that I wanted to be able to spend time with them alone to get to know them more (I have several other friendships of similar nature, with men and women alike, so this was not unusual for me).

I had never heard of polyamory before September, and when I learned about it, it made me feel like I had found a missing piece of myself.

Most of his more extreme co-dependent behavior has only surfaced in the past month or so. I'm not sure if it was solely a reaction to my discovery of polyamory, or just that he'd done a good job of hiding those things before. I have suggested both therapy and hobbies to him several times before (I even got him a guitar, as he used to play but his became damaged some time ago), but thus far, he has not expressed any interest in pursuing either.

 

[rosephase]

Wow, I can understand your fear. Co-dependency is scary when the other person agrees that it isn't healthy, is willing to work on it and understands how limiting it can be for their partner. I would be scared to death to find out my long term partner was happy to be half a person... in fact preferred it to being a full person...

I don't have much advice I'm sorry your in such a hard spot with someone you love. Getting a list like that would make me run for the door.

When he says he wants to work on it first does he offer ways that he is going to work on it? Has he offered a time line for working on it?

Is actively being non-monogamous something you are willing to give up? How much autonomy do you need to feel like you are living your life fully? How much change would you need to see in him to feel comfortable in your day to day life with friends, work networking and personal alone time?

He is asking a lot from you. Is it something you can give without giving up yourself?

 

[MrsBrightside]

Thinking polyamory will help/fix problems is usually mistake #1 people make. Better to have a stable relationship first and then transition to polyamory. Yes that means putting your needs on the backburner, but remember also that it would be temporary.

Remember that co-dependency means that The Writer might fall into a trap of putting your needs ahead of his to try and make it work for you/make you happy because he doesn't want to lose you, even if he feels awful. Being able to mutually make needs/worries/fears/etc. known to one another, asking for things you might want/need, those are all really paramount to making polyamory work. The Writer might not be in a healthy enough place to be able to do that effectively, and you might end up in a cycle where things seem fine but they really aren't, until The Writer his a breaking point.

It may be that The Writer needs therapy. But in terms of your personal life together with these issues, try and focus on one at a time. Too much would be overwhelming and probably not sustainable. I would try talking about needs together first, and seeing what kinds of compromises you can come up with re: you going out without him and other small issues. You can try and help The Writer come up with hobbies he can do at home that sooth him when he is anxious about being alone without you. Being able to be comfortable alone may be a good first step to everything.

In terms of issues like this, I find it works best to set a timeframe, so that there is incentive to work on that issue, rather than 'we won't move forward until you are 100% okay'. That never seems to work because they might never be 100% okay until they start actually facing the issue. But you can still do this in baby-steps.

There is lots of info out there on co-dependent behaviour and how to improve it! But I would definitely say that fixing the issues (or at least having a plan on starting to fix them/seeing good progress) before venturing too far into poly is probably a good idea.

 

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you struggle. FWIW, what I see as the bottom line?

At this time, he's codependent.

• He sees nothing wrong with being co-dependent.
  
  • He enjoys putting his entire existence into a relationship.
  • He wants you to prop him up and be his everything
  • He to be in a bubble with you and he wants you to do same
  • He wants to live like two halves of a whole. He views relationships as possessive -- they are things he has to have or else he is not complete.
    
  • He doesn't know how to be a "whole" person. (Also sounds like he doesn't want to learn.)
  • He doesn't see anything wrong with engulfment.

• He says needs to figure out his co-dependency issues (<-- What's there to figure out? He said he is happy being codependent.)

• He does not want to poly
• He is conflict avoidant. ( ex: "Most of my attempts to talk about polyamory, or even just the state of our relationship have been met with "I don't know what to say, there's nothing we haven't already said," and he doesn't like to revisit the unresolved issues." )

At this time, you are very independent.

• You want to spend time with your friends
• You want to spend time networking for work
• You want to be poly dating.
• You want him to stop clinging to you
• You want him to stop trying to control you without really controlling you (Sounds like FOG to me)
• You want to live like two whole people who choose to be together. You are already complete with or without the relationship. You view relationships as participatory. They are something you DO together - you engage, relate, spend time together etc.

Conclusion: Not compatible at this time.

You do not exist to be his life raft.

• Caring about him means encouraging him to seek therapist and do his self care. With or without you dating him.
• Caring about him does not mean you agree to be in a dynamic you see is unhealthy just to keep him company
• Caring about him does not mean you neglect your own needs and your own self care.

SHORT TERM

Shelve the poly thing for now.

Do get out. You cannot be joined at the hip. That is not healthy even if he does not see it. Do what you are going to do -- read a book, be with friends, etc. Give him the calendar heads up, and let him figure how to spend his time.

LONG TERM

Which of these do you like best?

• 1) Break up now.
  • 3 years invested and still so many problems is too much for you.
  • Move on to healing rather than lingering in the trapped feeling.

• 2) Postpone, and set a time window to gather more info, and a deadline to reassess.
  • Wait and see what action he takes (ex: make counseling appointment, work on his issues)
    • At deadline, he has made enough effort progress so that you ARE willing continue. You stay and figure out how to be in a patient relationship with him as he works on his mental health long term. (Which includes maybe giving up poly permanently if it exacerbates his mental health.)
    • At deadline, he has NOT made effort/progress and you ARE NOT willing to continue. You leave. Not enough return on your investment.

• 3) You do nothing. He does nothing.
  • You just go around the merry-go-round some more even though you already know you do not like it.

I'm sorry. That's all I can think of here. You pretty much could pick what track you want to be on.

I encourage you to pick what YOU need to be healthy both short term and long term.

Galagirl

 

[PinkPig]

I agree with the others, using poly to fix a troubled relationship will make things worse, not better. What you do at this point, depends on you and how important your relationship to The Writer is. Assuming that your relationship with The Writer is important to you, I think temporarily tabling poly while he works on his issues is fair (although it may not feel that way to you, when you're all excited about the possibilities...) Like Mrs. Brightside said, having a set time frame for re-opening the subject is fair...gives him time to work on his issues but doesn't allow his issues to permanently derail the topic. As for working on codependency, there are a host of books on the subject. Therapy is an option. And, support groups are inexpensive options, too. If his codependency stems from past relationships with alcoholics or addicts, al-anon or ACOA (adult children of alcoholics) may help. If it stems from something else, CODA (co-dependents anonymous) might help. I like Mrs. Brightside's idea that The Writer make up a list of things he can do while you're out with others. Also, taking up a hobby, or trying something that requires him to get out of the house may help, too.

 

[branches]

Perhaps I misspoke when I said that I thought polyamory could help. I only meant that, becoming more comfortable with his own independence and communicating and being more honest about his feelings would help him to over-come some of the uneasy feelings he has regarding co-dependency. Also, while he likes "losing" himself in a relationship, he also feels a lot of discomfort with his behavior, as he dislikes his lack of social life and that he hasn't done more to further his career. He has put a lot of energy into ignoring those things by, instead, focusing on our relationship, and I don't think he is very proud of that.

At the time at which I brought up polyamory to him, our relationship was fairly comfortable and safe feeling. Yes, it did bother me that he would prefer me to be less independent, but at the time we had assumed that was related to his self-described introverted feelings, but we were able to deal with those things rather amicably.

Forming very deep friendships has always been a part of my personality, and even as I met the Wolf (over a year ago) and Explorer (about half a year ago), I was always very honest with the Writer about the nature of our friendships, and that I wanted to be able to spend time with them alone to get to know them more (I have several other friendships of similar nature, with men and women alike, so this was not unusual for me).

I had never heard of polyamory before September, and when I learned about it, it made me feel like I had found a missing piece of myself.

Most of his more extreme co-dependent behavior has only surfaced in the past month or so. I'm not sure if it was solely a reaction to my discovery of polyamory, or just that he'd done a good job of hiding those things before. I have suggested both therapy and hobbies to him several times before (I even got him a guitar, as he used to play but his became damaged some time ago), but thus far, he has not expressed any interest in pursuing either.



I'm going to add this to my original post, as I actually have no idea how forums work in terms of responding to individual comments.

 

[branches]

Galagirl, Thank you so much for this amazing response. I think I wasn't clear about a few things, and I've added an amendment to my original post. I'm still trying to figure out the forum thing, so I'm not sure how to respond directly to you (I might be doing that now?)

 

[LizziE]

It sounds like you have a codependent partner who has absolutely no drive to do anything (like therapy or develop his own hobbies) to work on his own codependencies.

There's nothing you can do about that.

I mean, you could keep bringing up therapy. Asking when he's going to start playing the guitar again. You could keep encouraging him to make new friends.

But it sounds like he won't do any of those things and is much more comfortable complaining to you about the lacks in his life and trying to forget about them by immersing himself in you.

Or, you may get some response from him. Maybe he'll enjoy you doing all these things for him, finding him a therapist, taking him out with your friends and encouraging him to spend time with him, mommying him into doing a bare minimum that will keep you believing that something is improving when it's actually not.

This sounds like he has nothing to do with polyamory, and much to do with you making an exit plan to a relationship that is only going to drag you down more and more as time goes on.

That sucks, and I do apologize if it sounds harsh. But that's what it looks like. I'm really sorry.

 

[anomaly]

Hi Colleen,

I'm also an introvert, so I understand the need for space and some measure of social isolation. But I'm also very independent and I need contact with my friends on a regular basis.

I see a whole bunch of red flags in your description of your husband, at least when it comes to compatibility with you. This has nothing to do with polyamory. It has to do with the fact that you two are deeply incompatible and it doesn't look like he's willing to make the slightest effort to change - and maybe he *cannot* change. The patterns you describe are generally deep-seated and difficult to shift. Additionally, if he is not willing to talk about unresolved issues, there is no way you can have a healthy relationship.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm not sure if it was solely a reaction to my discovery of polyamory, or just that he'd done a good job of hiding those things before.

Could be one, the other or BOTH.

This new data?

• I have suggested both therapy and hobbies to him several times before.
  • He has not expressed any interest in pursuing either.

Doesn't really change anything. So my suggestions don't change. I still think...

SHORT TERM

You could shelve poly. And still meet your social needs by getting out. Let him figure what to do with himself. That's his job. Not yours. Once he's decided something (hobby or whatever) THEN you can support him by encouraging, surprising him with a hobby gift card or whatever.

You proposing solutions and him not doing anything? That's you throwing energy down the black hole. It gets draining/frustrating for you.

HE has to come up with his solutions for himself that he will actually do. You cannot do it for him.

LONG TERM

You still could pick a track.

• End it now. You are moving on without him. You change your behavior. His behavior changing or not does not factor in.
  
• Wait and see if he steps up his game or not. You behavior changes based on what his behavior is. You give him a chance to change within a time period and do something constructive about his self care. Then you stay/leave based on what behavior he actually does do. Rather than "all talk, no show."
  
• You do nothing to change your behavior. He does nothing to change in his behavior. You continue to be unhappy there.

I really don't see any other track.

Galagirl

 

[Tinwen]

I basically agree with the others. Yet I do see hope, people change.

I had a remotely similar experience, in that the relationship with my ex was really codependent. We both were codependent, me perhaps more with the lack of self-esteem and motivation issues, and him being the socially isolated introvert, who had no friend whatsoever and relied on me for daily social contact. We were together in the bubble, very happily for nearly three years, until I fell in love with someone else, all these and other issues came out, and the last months were really ugly.
What I want to say, my ex started to really work on his issues, as he began to see it as such a big threat to our relationship (it was too late though), and continued after we parted ways. When I meet him today, I am really surprised how far he has gone engaging socially. I even thing today he would be able to handle polyamory, though it is definitelly not his first choice.

If you both decide to give this a chance, I think you will both need a great deal of respect for each other. At this point you seem very focused on a particular outcome. I think
- you will have to find a good enough arrangement to be happy with for a long period of time, while you both try to improve even further (i.e. you going out often enough to keep you happy and connected)
- while you desperatelly "need" him to change, he cannot work on it because "you" want him to. You can agree on the direction and means of change, but there cannot be pressure to the point of making him feel like he must meet your demands in order to be loved. Also, you cannot predict the exact outcome. Perhaps being independent for him still doesn't mean having tons of friends, but doing an event for children twice a year and still spending most of his free time in on-line games (or whatever).
- you will want to separate codependancy issues from polyamory issues from introversion. Be aware, that he might become less dependent in relationships over years, but he might still want to be monogamous. On the other hand, he might still be somewhat dependent and at the same time handle some kind of polyamory (I do, more or less), who knows.

I also think there must be traits in you enabling his codependency. Is it perhaps the "I will immediately find a solution for both of us" behaviour you show by telling him how to handle his dependency problem? Is it complying to his demands on your time to much?
What made you enjoy nearly three years in the bubble with him? For what traits did you pick him in the first place. Why did he pick you?
Did your previous partners exhibit those behaviours? Why did you pick them? If you go find someone new, will you pick the same traits again?

 

[branches]

I basically agree with the others. Yet I do see hope, people change.

I also think there must be traits in you enabling his codependency. Is it perhaps the "I will immediately find a solution for both of us" behaviour you show by telling him how to handle his dependency problem? Is it complying to his demands on your time to much?
What made you enjoy nearly three years in the bubble with him? For what traits did you pick him in the first place. Why did he pick you?
Did your previous partners exhibit those behaviours? Why did you pick them? If you go find someone new, will you pick the same traits again?

I’m glad that you see some hope for us, as that seems to be in short supply. Your situation seems pretty similar to mine, although I am really hoping Writer and I can work through some changes and find our way forward together.

Since he told me about the co-dependency suspicions, I’ve been doing a lot of reading and trying to figure out what about my behavior enables his.

Up until we moved in together, I think we had a really healthy relationship. When I needed space to myself, I could just stay home… and when we were together, he was reassured by knowing that I was there because I wanted to be.

Moving in together was circumstantial, as it only happened because my former roommate’s boyfriend had threatened to kill me, and Writer’s roommate had just moved out a week prior. But once we’d moved in, trying to find a different living situation seemed illogical (due in part to living in NYC). This was the point where some of the issues started to crop up. I work much longer hours and more days than he does, so he was getting plenty of time to himself while I was working. I would come home from work, and he would want to spend ALL of our time together, which could be mentally exhausting to me. I also became more interested in seeing the friends that I’d been neglecting, probably because I always had the promise of seeing him when I got home.

I think what really compounded the behavior was when our last roommate moved out… now it’s just the two of us. He has always told me that I don’t need to ask him for permission when it comes to doing things on my own, but I feel like I HAVE to, because of how he reacts. I think this is probably the biggest thing I do to enable his behavior. I even feel like I have to ask for permission to make a phone call (especially if it’s to one of my interests), or to be in a room by myself.

These past few months I’ve been dealing with some extreme depression. Since telling him about my identifying as polyamorous, I’ve really limited how much I’ve contacted my other interests, and it’s really been tearing me apart. I have been feeling rejected and hurt. I know that shelving polyamory, for now, is the right choice, but I’m really struggling with it, because it means giving up on friendships that I care deeply about, and that were helping me to feel connected and normal.

 

[GalaGirl]

I work much longer hours and more days than he does, so he was getting plenty of time to himself while I was working.

How is that different than when you lived in separate apartments?

He has always told me that I don’t need to ask him for permission when it comes to doing things on my own, but I feel like I HAVE to, because of how he reacts.

So he says it is ok to not ask him. Then you go ahead and do whatever. Then he has a cow of some kind. Which shows you it really was not ok after all. So then you pussyfoot around him in order to avoid any new cows.

Is that it? If so...That does not sound healthy for you.

These past few months I’ve been dealing with some extreme depression. Since telling him about my identifying as polyamorous, I’ve really limited how much I’ve contacted my other interests, and it’s really been tearing me apart. I have been feeling rejected and hurt. I know that shelving polyamory, for now, is the right choice, but I’m really struggling with it, because it means giving up on friendships that I care deeply about, and that were helping me to feel connected and normal.

You are not able to continue to see your friends and not date them?

I think you could go back to separate homes. That seemed to be a healthier dynamic for both of you. Where you could spend the night at each other's homes but also have a home to retreat to. This is too much togetherness for you if you cohabitate and it brings out sides of him (codependent) and you (depression) that you do not enjoy.

I think you could move out, and try dating from separate homes for X amount of time.

• Moving out again could give him time and space to work on his issues.
  
• Moving out again could give you time and space to work on your depression. It also gives you a break from walking around on eggshells.
  
• The time you choose to spend with him is still there. And what you do the rest of the time is up to you with no comments from him.

And when X time is up, you can reassess this dating situation again then.

Galagirl

 

[InfinitePossibility]

I Hey branches. Glad to have you here. The folks on this board are amazing at providing thoughtful help and support - that's why I like it so much.

This was the point where some of the issues started to crop up. I work much longer hours and more days than he does, so he was getting plenty of time to himself while I was working. I would come home from work, and he would want to spend ALL of our time together, which could be mentally exhausting to me.

This really resonates with me. My partner has been spending way more time with me than normal for the past few months due to issues in his life. The lack of time to myself has and is an issue between us. So - we're doing what we can to address it. When it's possible, he goes to his home city and spends time with his friends. In my home, we've turned one room into an office so that he can sit there and work - mostly because it prevents him from seeing time that I want to spend on my own as together time.

It's a challenge for sure. I've lived alone for over a decade and it suits me very well. Having somebody constantly here and constantly wanting to be with me is difficult - my partner is very sociable and would always rather be with people than alone which is tricky because sometimes I don't want people around me.

In your shoes I'd be wary of pushing for a poly lifestyle. It may be you have some work to do on yourself before you'd be able to sustain one. You talk about neglecting your friends for years because of spending time getting to know your partner. Having poly relationships means nurturing existing relationships while growing new ones. Have you any success at doing that? It sounds as though that is an area you may struggle with - and it'll be a much bigger struggle if you are trying to learn with a reluctant existing partner and a new relationship.

Maybe concentrating more of your energy on platonic friendships would be a good idea - as well as reassuring for your partner that you are capable of putting the energy into more than one relationship.

Plus - much of what you say resonates with me. I make deep friendships and very much value alone time with my friends. I have very much structured a life around having time for friends, time for work and time to myself (mostly by massively cutting back on working hours and living simply).

My partner gains real energy and excitement from meeting new people and being with his friends.

We both love others deeply and over long periods of time. Yet - our relationship is monogamous and we're both fine with that. I'm the driving force behind being monogamous. Poly relationships take more work to do well than I'm willing to spend on romantic relationships. The relationship I have with my partner is loving, close and fulfilling - and also takes up a huge amount of my time and energy. I want to still have time for friends, hobbies, work and to be alone so I'm not up for poly at all. You've not said much here that I wouldn't say about myself which is why I'd wonder why you so strongly identify with poly.

IP

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Colleen,

That sounds like a really challenging situation that you're in. I don't blame you if you feel depressed about it.

I can't remember who said it, but I agree that moving out (and into a place of your own) is probably one of the best things you can do. It would give you some of your independence back, and it would prod Writer into working on his issues.

I will not say that there is no hope, but it does sound like things are going to be difficult for awhile.

Sympathetically,
Kevin T.

 

[branches]

You talk about neglecting your friends for years because of spending time getting to know your partner. Having poly relationships means nurturing existing relationships while growing new ones. Have you any success at doing that? It sounds as though that is an area you may struggle with - and it'll be a much bigger struggle if you are trying to learn with a reluctant existing partner and a new relationship.

Maybe concentrating more of your energy on platonic friendships would be a good idea - as well as reassuring for your partner that you are capable of putting the energy into more than one relationship.

IP

I don't think my neglecting of friendships was intentional for that first year, but rather a result of some serious new relationship energy, and just of living in New York City in general. To see each other would sometimes take 1-2 hours of traveling on a train, so it just ate up a lot of my time and energy. I still maintained my friendships, but sometimes I would choose to go to see him instead of staying out a bit later for some drinks with friends. It wasn't as if I abandoned those friendships all together.

Where we are now, I DO have some very deep platonic friendships. There are two guys in particular that, when I spend time with them, I want to spend an entire day with them. We have amazing chemistry when it comes to talking, and I find myself wanting more from those relationships, and I know that they feel the same. The reason that I feel I identify with poly is, that I don't feel guilty about that sort of behavior, it feels very natural and good to me. It does not make me love my partner any less. But I want to be able to, say, spend the night with one of them. I've come close several times, just because we got caught up in talking, but I've always gone home out of guilt. If I lived alone, I probably would have stayed, because it's not as if anything physical was happening between us. I suppose I just don't feel fulfilled by monogamy, while the writer does. Does that make me a bad person?

I wish I could live alone, but the rents here are just too high, and at the moment I don't have the funds to set out for a new apartment (about $4,000), even if I were to have a roommate. Writer and I did just set up an office, so I'm hoping that will give me some space to, at the very least, read or write on my own.

It hurts to shelve my current friendships so that Writer and I can work on these problems that sprouted up, mostly because they were never a problem before I said the word "polyamory." They were my outlets, my way to feel revitalized, and I'm really missing out on that healing energy.

Thank you for sharing your story with me, it was comforting. =)

 

[Tinwen]

Where we are now, I DO have some very deep platonic friendships. There are two guys in particular that, when I spend time with them, I want to spend an entire day with them. ... It does not make me love my partner any less. But I want to be able to, say, spend the night with one of them. I've come close several times, just because we got caught up in talking, but I've always gone home out of guilt. If I lived alone, I probably would have stayed, because it's not as if anything physical was happening between us. I suppose I just don't feel fulfilled by monogamy, while the writer does. Does that make me a bad person?

No, it doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't make you polyamorous either. Spending night with a friend might be well within the boundaries of monogamy for some people.
I think I jumped for polyamory partly for similar reasons. I craved emotional intimacy. And I wanted physical touch (like backrubbing) from close friends to be within the bounds, when in my imagination (and my partner's) it wasn't. But what we/he considered unacceptable is for some people just the norm.
Two years later, I find that I do enjoy touch from certain people, I enjoyed some (kinky) experimentation, but I am still romatically exclusive. And I still do feel some guilt or doubt about how my partner will view any touch with others, when in fact he is polyamorous and able to get over anything I do.
You could be brave to change your norm, and then perhaps you can have those close friendships that fulfill you, without having more romantic partners. You could change your norm not to feel guilty while you perceive your friends just as friends.
That, of course, may still mean that you have to find someone who wants the same style of monogamy (perhaps being sexually exclusive, but spend a lot of time with other close people). Think about it if you really want polyamory, or a different (less strict) approach to monogamy.

It hurts to shelve my current friendships so that Writer and I can work on these problems that sprouted up, mostly because they were never a problem before I said the word "polyamory." They were my outlets, my way to feel revitalized, and I'm really missing out on that healing energy.

Well, perhaps they are just that. Why do you want them to become more?

 

[InfinitePossibility]

Following on in agreement with Tinwen.

Where we are now, I DO have some very deep platonic friendships. There are two guys in particular that, when I spend time with them, I want to spend an entire day with them. We have amazing chemistry when it comes to talking, and I find myself wanting more from those relationships, and I know that they feel the same. The reason that I feel I identify with poly is, that I don't feel guilty about that sort of behavior, it feels very natural and good to me. It does not make me love my partner any less. But I want to be able to, say, spend the night with one of them. I've come close several times, just because we got caught up in talking, but I've always gone home out of guilt. If I lived alone, I probably would have stayed, because it's not as if anything physical was happening between us. I suppose I just don't feel fulfilled by monogamy, while the writer does. Does that make me a bad person?

No. Not a bad person at all. I don't see that it makes you poly either. To my mind, this doesn't point to poly relationships. I think that there are few humans in the world who only have a single deep relationship. Most folk have more than one (even if it is a sibling, a parent and a romantic partner).

I have a number of deep platonic friendships - people who I have weekends away with, people who I go and spend the night with, people that I want to be with on a one to one basis so that we can talk deeply with each other, people that I hug and say that I love you to, one who I will sit and hold hands with sometimes. As I've said, I'm not up for having multiple romantic relationships - a big part of my reluctance for more romance is these platonic connections. If I had less connections in my life, I might be more keen on poly but as it is, monogamy suits me very well as it allows me time to keep my existing friendships going plus time to build ones. Romances are more time consuming in my experience.

I don't think my neglecting of friendships was intentional for that first year, but rather a result of some serious new relationship energy, and just of living in New York City in general. To see each other would sometimes take 1-2 hours of traveling on a train, so it just ate up a lot of my time and energy. I still maintained my friendships, but sometimes I would choose to go to see him instead of staying out a bit later for some drinks with friends. It wasn't as if I abandoned those friendships all together.

Of course neglecting friendships due to NRE isn't intentional. Lots of people neglect friendships when they start a relationship. It just isn't a great way to treat friends. Nobody likes to be pushed aside to make room for a partner - even if they understand it. Learning how to manage NRE while keeping existing relationships going is a good skill to have - whether you are poly or not.

I find that if I am in NRE, it gives me more energy and makes me keener on being with people so I tend to spend a bit more time with friends at those times in my life. When I'm just my normal self, I find I want more alone time.

It hurts to shelve my current friendships so that Writer and I can work on these problems that sprouted up, mostly because they were never a problem before I said the word "polyamory." They were my outlets, my way to feel revitalized, and I'm really missing out on that healing energy.

I'm confused. Are these platonic friendships or friends that you hope may become romantic partners? If they are friends, I'm not sure why you need to give them up? If they have been presented to the Writer as potential new partners, I can kind of understand why he would want you to calm things down with them while you and he sort out where you are.

Do you not have other friends that are not tied up in your new poly feelings who you could feel revitalized with?

Thank you for sharing your story with me, it was comforting. =)

No worries.

 

[SchrodingersCat]

My first thought is a glaring but common misunderstanding of the definition of introvert. Introversion/Extroversion simply refers to the effect that being around people has on your energy levels. Introverts need alone time to recharge their batteries and being with people drains them. Extroverts need to be with people to recharge their batteries and being alone drains them. That's it. An introvert can have lots of friends, and an extrovert can have few friends.

The reason I'm harping on that is that some people use "I'm an introvert" as an excuse not to make friends. Introversion is just a personality trait, so it's neither negative nor positive. But humans are social creatures and isolation is psychologically unhealthy.

If he thinks co-dependency is perfectly fine, then what motivation does he have to work on it? Complacency is human nature. The vast majority of people are willing to settle for "good enough" so long as it keeps working. By shelving your polyamory, you're only making him more complacent.

If you really don't think he's going to deal with the codependency, then I disagree with the other commenters. While I don't think polyamory will "help" your relationship, it would force his hand. Right now he has no reason to change. His life is going along tickity-boo, and you're the one sacrificing your needs. You describe it as a snowball rolling down a hill, getting worse and worse every day, not better. If you leave the snowball in his court, it's just going to keep rolling.

It hurts to shelve my current friendships so that Writer and I can work on these problems that sprouted up, mostly because they were never a problem before I said the word "polyamory." They were my outlets, my way to feel revitalized, and I'm really missing out on that healing energy.

Yeah, no. I'm sorry, but that's just wrong. It's one thing to avoid moving forwards, but he has no right to push you backwards just so he can avoid moving forwards. Fuck that shit.

The way I see it, if you're going to meet your needs, you have two choices: break-up with him, or go ahead with polyamory and force him to deal with his issues (with your help of course, but because you love him and want to support him, not because his co-dependency is your responsibility to overcome... that would just be co-dependency on your part!).

Co-dependence is an avoidance problem: it's scary to be on your own, it's scary to be responsible for your own happiness, it's scary to stand up for your needs, it's scary to communicate your truths. So I don't see how anyone is going deal with their co-dependence by further avoidance, e.g. you shelving polyamory.

There are ways to "move forward" with polyamory without blasting forwards, 0-60. It's not all or nothing. You have these platonic friends with whom it would be more convenient to crash after a late-night talk? Do it. You're not breaking any agreements, you were doing it the first year and a half of your relationship, and he should know by now that it doesn't mean you love him any less.

My husband is co-dependent by nature. Not in the two-halves-of-a-whole sense, but in terms of making his own needs secondary to those of the people he cares about. But unlike you, I knew I was poly when we met, and him dealing with that was the price of admission for being with me, so he worked it out. I was casually dating someone else at the time, so it wasn't this hypothetical thing. It was sink or swim, and he learned how to swim.

 

[Savant]

He has told me that he thinks he needs to figure out his co-dependency issues before he even begins to think about polyamory.

I want to comment on the 'codependent' aspect of this discussion here. As someone who studied psychology, I can say that 'codependent' is one of the most abused terms around. Furthermore, it's often referred to as a 'mental illness' when it isn't one. Pick up a DSM-V and you won't find any reference to 'codependent' disorders.

About the closest would be DPD (dependent personality disorder), which is something you may want to examine further, since it's the most common mental illness found today, and it may be more in line with what you're dealing with here.

Furthermore, the basis for codependency came from those with substance abuse issues, who had a partner who enabled/facilitated the substance abuse because of a pattern of dependency on that person. So unless the original poster has some unhealthy behavior that their codependent partner is enabling, I would suggest a rethink of the codependent 'diagnosis'. (Which really should come from a medical professional or therapist.) Sadly, there is so much information (and misinformation) about this on the internet. Check 12 websites and you'll get 13 opinions on what codependency is.

My suggestion would be to stop trying to 'label' this issue with your partner, since it almost seems like a means to say "this is all his problem because he is (insert diagnosis here)" when that's rarely the case. I think the people who are looking at this from an 'introverted' standpoint are on the right track.

Instead of trying to see this as a 'problem', look at it as a clash of personalities. The best course of action is likely to determine (as some have done) whether the two personalities are compatible, since I tend to agree with those who say they are not.

Long story short, labels only complicate things, and they're rarely correct.