Communication breakdowns

[SheBLittleButFierce]

Hello everybody, again!

I'm a 32 year old F and single mama planning a huge move to where my primary lives. Mainly for school but also since he is there and my children will be a bit closer to their dad. I'm in a bit of a quandary. I was raised in a ridiculously religious home and all the past aside, I'm finally stepping out of complete isolation and with my divorce finally finished, I've also stepped out of the cycle of emotional abuse from another aspect of life. I have been consistently isolated.

In the Army I was isolated even from legal rights. In my marriage I was isolated from help. With my family I am included when I am christian or when I vote appropriately but I am isolated from contact when I "rebel." For years these different factions went out of their way to destroy friendships and I'm. almost free from the last front...my family.

That's where the move and my primary come into play. I'm worried. My primary is a hetero male with about 3 or 4 girlfriends and a good friend as well as lover. We became intimate a year ago and he is so involved in helping me gain my voice and stand up for my feelings. However, ever since he started dating a truly wonderful person, he's wanted FAR less to do with me. We spoke two or three times a week before and now only once a week and he's curt and more than happy to get off the phone. When I bring up the fact that I need steady and strong communication he says that I'm in a negative place and I'm choosing to damage our future. We still message and I know that should be enough but it isn't for me. I've said so but when I do he reminds me that he thinks of being in my life for good until I do this...which is ask him why he doesn't want to talk to me. I'm feeling isolated yet again and I don't know what to do. I talk everyday to two people....my son and daughter.

How do I present this to him without being desperate? Why does he not want to talk to me anymore? Are there any tips on how I can present this without being pushy or needy? Or is there at least a way to not need to talk all the time?

I'm not angry, jealous, demanding or controlling. I literally spent the last ten years of my life letting the people that I love steamroll me so I could avoid being a nasty, negative person. This leaves me to believe that my need to communicate is so giant that all of those traits are desirable compared to this ONLY need I have. How do I stop needing this?

 

[Dagferi]

Do not make someone a priority who views you as an option. My advice is he's not that into you.

This man has shown you exactly where you stand. As someone he holds in the wings for when he feels like he wants to speak with you. He is gas lighting you btw.

I do not need to talk to my partners everyday. But if I needed support they are there for me. If they need me for anything all they have to do is reach out.

 

[Magdlyn]

Hi SheB,

I read your other thread where you were nervous about loving again, but seemed to feel your longtime friend and fairly new lover was really into you. You are taking your kids, and moving to be quite near him.

Now that the move is imminent, he is withdrawing? What is going on here? I am at a loss. He is your primary, but he has several gfs. Do you think he is feeling pressured by you to be on some kind of relationship escalator? Do you want to be on the escalator with him? After all, you call him your primary. Did he consider you his primary until he met this new "wonderful woman?" Is he an NRE junkie? A love-bombing narcissist who hooked you only to now devalue you?

I could speculate more.. but I don't have enough info to go on to give any advice, until you clarify.

 

[GirlFromTexlahoma]

How do I present this to him without being desperate? Why does he not want to talk to me anymore? Are there any tips on how I can present this without being pushy or needy? Or is there at least a way to not need to talk all the time?

...

How do I stop needing this?

There's nothing wrong with needing whatever amount of contact and attention from a partner that you happen to need. It's not about "needing something you shouldn't", but "building relationships with people who willing and able to meet your needs".

Personally, I do need daily contact (preferably multiple times a day!) with anyone I'm dating. If that doesn't mesh with how someone handles their relationships, then we're not a good fit. I'm not wrong for needing it, they're not wrong for not wanting it. We just relationship differently.

I think if you can accept this - that having needs doesn't make you "clingy" or "pushy" - it will be much easier for you to talk to your partner about needs and expectations. Right now you seem to think you have to make yourself ok with whatever he's willing to give. You don't. You can explain to him that you need (whatever) to be happy and fulfilled in a relationship. Maybe he can't give it - but wouldn't it be better to know that, than to waste time and energy trying to be satisfied with less than you truly need?

 

[GalaGirl]

I hope you mean move to your own home, just in his town. Not move in with HIM. Right?

However, ever since he started dating a truly wonderful person, he's wanted FAR less to do with me. We spoke two or three times a week before and now only once a week and he's curt and more than happy to get off the phone. When I bring up the fact that I need steady and strong communication he says that I'm in a negative place and I'm choosing to damage our future.

Nope. I call shenanigans to that stuff in blue.

You are saying what you need to be happy up front and clear. You need to talk 2-3 times a week. Some people need less. Some people need more. YOU need 2-3 times a week. It is what it is.

He could apologize that he isn't doing 2-3 times a week right now when he used to. He could own it. He could then make you aware that he cannot meet that now that he's got other obligations. He could be up front about what he can and cannot do at THIS point in time. Keep all this SIMPLE.

Not flip it around on your when he knows your past history. That sounds mean.

Reporting where you stand? That's you reporting where you stand. He isn't a mind reader. How else would he know where you stand? You are not doing anything "negative or damaging" in reporting where you are at.

I would think HE is doing potentially negative/damaging things -- by not being up front himself and playing flipperoo.

We still message and I know that should be enough but it isn't for me. I've said so but when I do he reminds me that he thinks of being in my life for good until I do this...which is ask him why he doesn't want to talk to me.

I call shenanigans again.

You state again what you need to be happy. Rather than accept he cannot deliver and tell you so up front? He's playing head games. There is no need make it be like "If you keep doing that I am doing to dump you."

Be more respectful to say "I can only give X. If you need Y? We need to both accept we are not compatible with grace. Then figure out how to break up and be exes and friends instead. Be something that fits better."

I'm feeling isolated yet again and I don't know what to do. I talk everyday to two people....my son and daughter.

I suggest you move on because he's not treating you up front and direct in the present.

I suggest you solve the isolation in other ways than through him. You could build your social network, make other friends, and date someone else when you find a better potential. School PTA, volunteer work, join a church, join a hobby group -- people gather in all kinds of ways. Do the ones that speak to your interests and hobbies so you can increase the odds of meeting like minded people.

I know this guy and his friendship got you though transition from your other post. But maybe that's all it needs to be -- the transition guy. Expand.

Galagirl

 

[SheBLittleButFierce]

Thank you for the responses. I will try to clarify. The constant conversation was one of the reasons I fell for this guy. He's helping me break the cycle ofemotional abuse coming from my family which wants to live on a piece of land together and fought me on my children receiving a "secular" education. This means I have two problems that have nothing to do with him and everything to do with me.

Problem 1: after a history of isolation tactics I have become incredibly insistent on needing communication with people. I only speak regularly to my children and because of the move my family is punishing me with zero comms. Which is kind of a win at the moment since this will be the first move I'm bankrolling that doesn't also come with family moving with me. (I should clarify that, every move while in the army included many members of my family and I was financially responsible to support them for homeschooling my kids when they pulled them out of school while I was deployed. Now my children need constant care). This move is freedom and my family knows it and is trying to out maneuver me to keep the kids nearby.

Problem 2: I fear all attempts of control and chose poly to avoid the ownership tactics and facilitate the fact that I am bisexual. This means I have needs that have to be balanced by independence which might be tricky for some.

As for my lover, he is very responsive to my family issues. But since he met this other woman (who is a very good person for him and I really like her) he only messages me and then mid conversation he'll just stop responding because he's busy. If she shows up she needs him to be present with just her and I understand that but since she has said they are together nearly every night I'm starting to wonder where I fit into this relationship. I can't imagine why a proper end to the conversation is too much to ask. I think he might fear he's hurting my feelings by saying the conversation is over because he's going home with the woman. It wouldn't! I just need the conversation to close. Especially since the verbal communication is coming to a very quick halt.

I should also state that I'm okay with being a secondary. I'm a mom and have a very intense career ahead of me. I would expect to have lovers who have primary people around them since I am very busy. But this seems like a small request. I've told him that the ignoring me thing hurts and he's still doing it so I've probably not phrased it correctly.

My fear to share this with him more is not his fault because communication breakdowns have been used to control me in the past so this is a very real fear of mine that he did not build. I'm wondering how my fears are coming into this equation.

 

[Becca]

You're breaking free of a lot of bad relationships and bad patterns. It might benefit you to have an experience where you don't have a primary relationship, where you learn to depend on yourself, where friends and lovers enrich your life, but you meet your own needs.

And it sounds like this guy is not available to be a primary partner. Maybe that's ok.

And it is NOT ok for him to threaten to end the relationship because you are asking for attention. That's not the action of someone who cares.

Which is why I'm leaning towards the idea that *not* having him as a primary might be healthy for you.

 

[GalaGirl]

I can't imagine why a proper end to the conversation is too much to ask.

In your previous post you are not asking for that. You are asking for communication 2-3 times a week. So now it sounds like you need these to be happy I quite just to visually block it off.

1) You are ok being his secondary (or him being your secondary) so long as you are treated well. That means:

• Communication 2-3 times a week.
• Proper end to conversations.
• No triggering phrases.

2) You need more social outlets/people to be social with to combat feeling isolated. You need to build community.

Thank you for clarifying all that. But my response is still basically the same.

You still need to move on and build a wider social circle than just him or through him. You don't have to break up with him if you don't want to. But you have to MOVE ON from just him. Widen your circle so you feel less isolated.

It was ok that he was the only guy when you were in transition. Maybe it's ok while you are still in transition since you don't sound like you have moved yet.

But once moved? MOVE ON to building your bigger network. Make more friends, date in a way that makes bisexual you happy, find a primary if you so desire.

Could you be willing to clarify if you are moving to a space of your own for you and the kids?

I've told him that the ignoring me thing hurts and he's still doing it so I've probably not phrased it correctly.

What do you say exactly? Because how you write in the posts seems clear to me.

If this guy is hurting you with his dating style, stop dating him. Be friends because his style of poly doesn't match yours. Not the end of the world, Just means maybe you fit better as friends.

My fear to share this with him more is not his fault because communication breakdowns have been used to control me in the past so this is a very real fear of mine that he did not build. I'm wondering how my fears are coming into this equation..

If you don't want to be controlled by communication weird, you don't have to be. You could keep this simple.

Can he do what you want?

Communicate 2-3 times a week? Yes/no?​

AND

End conversations properly? Yes/no?​

AND

Stop using triggering phrases like "negative place and damaging our future" and so on? Yes or no?​

If he cannot give simple, clear communication back and it makes your dating him annoying or too much of a drag? Don't date. Be friends instead. You being super clear and up front about your needs is not being negative or damaging. It is you being clear.

But the main thing -- whether you keep him as a secondary or not -- is you moving on to EXPAND your social network so you are not so isolated in your new town.

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hi SheBLittleButFierce,

I kind of get the impression that your primary is ghosting you. In preference to his new partner. Due to this, I kind of suggest that you distance yourself from him. Maybe not cut him off altogether, but distance yourself, because, that's what I think he wants you to do. He's got this other woman and wants to devote his time and attention to her. I know you don't mind being secondary but I think he is shooting for tertiary at this point.

I kind of doubt that the problem is that you're phrasing things wrong, not that we can't always improve on our communication skills, but I'm thinking that he probably understands you well enough. He just doesn't want to admit that he wants to "demote" you to tertiary status. So he's trying to ghost you instead, by scaring and guilting you out of getting the contact you need from him. It's a shitty thing to do, but I suppose it's also very human and as such, venial.

I could be wrong, on any number of points, of course. But for what it's worth, those are my perceptions so far.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Ravenscroft]

he says that I'm in a negative place and I'm choosing to damage our future.

Unless your bf can do a better job of explaining himself:

He's a jerkoff.

He's moved on past you.

And he's certainly NOT "a partner," so get THAT outta your head.

"He's helping me break the cycle ofemotional abuse." You sorta make clear that this ought to be a PAST-tense statement.

Either he totally SUCKS at communication skills & always has... OR he's being intentionally abusive. Choose one.

A dear friend of mine is a reformed alcholic. She once said, "I can walk into a room full of people at church, & within seconds spot the most abusive drunks there... because they're the ones I'm instantly attracted to."

You got out of a marriage & "stepped out of the cycle of emotional abuse," yet it sounds like you're trailing after someone who'll happily give you more of the same.

And now you're asking what YOU need to do to make it work.

 

[1234567]

Don't make the mistake that just because someone isn't giving you as sting or frequent emotional abuse as a previous partner or your family, they aren't being emotionally abusive now. Lots of red flags here. Can you take a look at the equality and respect vs control wheels, and some basic relationship rights lists,
And see how he adds up?

My guess is he won't. I see blame, I see diverting, I see threats of ending the relationship if you feel differently than him, I see you don't have the right to express your feelings and needs.

This is NOT the respectful, non-abusive relationship you are looking for. It was a step up. It may have started out well. But if you want better, you can either let him go, or really change yourself to the point you know- and he knows- this behavior will not work with you because you won't be in the relationship when it's there. And be prepared to respect yourself enough to leave.


Huge hugs. I know how tough this is.