Confusing situation

[Kidge0753]

Hi all,

I've found myself in a situation that is a bit confusing and causing issues.

So my long term partner and I were together 8years (Poly for 2 and half of those) then due to difficulties in our relationship (not due to anything poly related) we broke up, I moved out.

A couple of months later we decided to give things another shot and see if we can work things out. We decided that we both wanted to remain poly. I however did not move back in and have since moved abroad for work reasons and won't be returning for some time (years) unless its for a visit.

We haven't quite sorted 'us' out yet and it definitely is different from before.

So I moved (the initial move was back to my place of birth, somewhere I know well and will be for 6 months or so). I went out to my local pub and after a few (I stayed till closing...) I met someone interesting. We spent ages talking outside the pub and they invited me back to theirs which was slightly closer then where I'm staying.

I told my partner over the phone that I had met someone I found interesting and I had talked to the new person about poly and all was good. I failed to mention that I had stayed over that initial night. This was due to 1) my partner mentioning that they were lonely in the empty flat we used to live in and it felt like rubbing salt on an open wound and 2) since the break up we haven't really adjusted where we are poly wise and it doesn't feel like my partner and I really fit the idea of 'primary' partners (I hate hierarchy anyway) not that I feel either of us has another 'primary' at this time.

Then in a fun conversation with my meta I disclosed that I had met someone and stayed over. Unknowing that our partner didn't know this she managed to say something which hinted enough that he realised and is now really angry with me.

We are going to talk in a couple days after they get some important personal stuff sorted.

I just don't quite know how I feel. I understand their anger but I also resent it and feel it's unfairly placed. I did inform them that I had met someone I liked and was seeing them. I know I left out some details but my intention was simply to not hurt them which as you can read back fired badly!

Any advice? How do I approach our conversation? Am I wrong to resent their anger?

 

[Magdlyn]

Hi all,

Hi, welcome to the board. We suggest nicknames for clarity's sake. I'll just make a couple up, but you can of course, change them if you wish. Jazz for your long term person. Rock for the new one. Meta for your metamour, Jazz's OSO.

I edited lightly also for clarity.

I've found myself in a situation that is a bit confusing and causing issues.

So my long term partner Jazz and I were together 8 years (poly for 2 and half of those), then due to difficulties in our relationship (not due to anything poly related) we broke up; I moved out.

A couple of months later we decided to give things another shot and see if we can work things out. We decided that we both wanted to remain poly. I however did not move back in, and have since moved abroad for work reasons and won't be returning for some time (years) unless it's for a visit.

We haven't quite sorted 'us' out yet and it definitely is different from before.
So I moved (the initial move was back to my place of birth, somewhere I know well and will be for 6 months or so).

One night, I went out to my local pub and after a few drinks (I stayed till closing), I met someone interesting, named Rock. We spent ages talking outside the pub, and then Rock invited me back to their place, which was slightly closer than where I'm staying.

(Later?) I told Jazz over the phone that I had met someone I found interesting, and I had talked to them about poly and all was good. I failed to mention that I had stayed over that initial night. This was due to:

1) Jazz mentioning that they were lonely in the empty flat we used to live in and it felt (to me) like rubbing salt on an open wound, and,
2) since the break up we haven't really adjusted where we are poly-wise and it doesn't feel like Jazz and I really fit the idea of 'primary' partners (I hate hierarchy anyway), not that I feel either of us has another 'primary' at this time.

Then (again later) in a fun conversation with Meta, I disclosed that I had met someone new and stayed over at their place. Not knowing that Jazz didn't know this, Meta managed to say something which hinted enough that Jazz realised, and is now really angry with me.

We are going to talk in a couple days, after (Jazz and someone else, or just Jazz?) gets some important personal stuff sorted.

I just don't quite know how I feel. I understand Jazz's anger but I also resent it and feel it's unfairly placed. I did inform Jazz that I had met someone I liked and was seeing them. I know I left out some details but my intention was simply to not hurt them, which as you can read backfired badly!

Any advice? How do I approach our conversation? Am I wrong to resent their anger?

Feelings are never wrong. Just take responsibility for your actions as well as your feelings. You and Jazz have just gone through some huge changes! After a long term relationship, you have had bad (undefined to us) enough issues that you broke up and moved apart. Then you two "got back together to work things out," but you actually then moved very far away, before working things out. You will be physically gone for years.

Surely your communication now needs to be crystal clear! You both need to know where you stand, and how much independence to see others you agree you each have. How much information do you each want about each other's dating? Do you agree to let the other know you've met someone? Do you agree you need consent before any behavior with new people? Whether that is sexual behavior including kissing, having actual sex, overnights or trips platonic or sexual, etc., etc.

It sounds to me like you just want to be free to go your own way and do whatever you want, since you don't believe in hierarchy and don't feel Jazz is your Primary. Be absolutely clear about this. Then make sure you agree as to what info is necessary when you are attracted to another. A headsup before any intimate behaviors? An assurance of condoms and safer sex practices? If you meet someone spontaneously and go home with them (or whatever) you seem to not want to need consent from Jazz. How soon after the new dating situation happens to you want to tell Jazz? The next day? Sometime that week? How soon does Jazz want to know? Lay it all out.

Whether Jazz is lonely or not may or may not affect your choices in what you do or how much discretion you both want.

Also, I suggest you are more discreet in talking to Meta (or any mutual friends) until you and Jazz are completely in agreement about how to proceed in this sudden change to a LDR, which will include new partners for you both. I don't think you need any gossip going around that could be misinterpreted and hurtful.

 

[GalaGirl]

We haven't quite sorted 'us' out yet and it definitely is different from before

Ok. So still in a transitional space.

I failed to mention that I had stayed over that initial night. This was due to:

1) Jazz mentioning that they were lonely in the empty flat we used to live in and it felt (to me) like rubbing salt on an open wound, and,

Why is it your job to "pre-manage" his feelings for him?

You can't just be honest and let him deal with himself and his feelings?

He really would take things personally like you sharing about what you are doing is you deliberately rubbing salt in his lonely wounds?

This is LDR. There's gonna be times were one of you is up and the other one is down and you are too far apart to do anything about it other than talk on the phone and share about your day.

You don't have to shrink yourself or shrink your life.

2) since the break up we haven't really adjusted where we are poly-wise and it doesn't feel like Jazz and I really fit the idea of 'primary' partners (I hate hierarchy anyway), not that I feel either of us has another 'primary' at this time.

So tell him you don't want to practice heirarchy. And no. You are not gonna call him before you spend the night or share sex with other people. It's YOUR body.

You CAN tell him before you visit him and share sex with him again how many people there have been since the last time you and him were together. Because then he gets to consent to share HIS body with you or not from a place of full info.

Then in a fun conversation with my meta I disclosed that I had met someone and stayed over. Unknowing that our partner didn't know this she managed to say something which hinted enough that he realised and is now really angry with me.

Ok. So oops. It happens. Is that why he's mad? The meta knew before he did?

You may have to have another conversation with meta about not blabbing YOUR news to people if you want to be the one to share it yourself. And maybe not tell meta things first.

We are going to talk in a couple days after they get some important personal stuff sorted.

That seems fair. Discovered a bump, gonna talk and sort it out.

I just don't quite know how I feel. I understand their anger but I also resent it and feel it's unfairly placed. I did inform them that I had met someone I liked and was seeing them. I know I left out some details but my intention was simply to not hurt them which as you can read back fired badly!

Any advice? How do I approach our conversation? Am I wrong to resent their anger?

I would say be ok with partner feeling anger. It's how he comes to realize "hey... this area needs more talking out."

Maybe he assumed some things or expected you to mind reader. And now he has to stop assuming, and stop expecting you to mind reader.

Or maybe he's just mad you told the meta first rather than him first if there was gonna be any telling of things.

This is basically an issue of "information management" to me. How much news is too little? Too much? What is news worthy? Who needs to know? Who doesn't need to know? Which you can sort out when you talk about how to cope with LDR poly.

Why are you all cranked up just cuz he's angry? Anger isn't a bad thing. He is allowed to be angry with himself for assuming things when you guys are still sorting things out how it's gonna be between you with this LDR phase of life.

Or is there more to the story? He wasn't just mad with himself but acting out at you or doing some other objectionable behavior?

I would tell him crystal clear where you stand.

• This is LDR polyship.
• You don't want to be his primary.
• You will be seeing other people while abroad.
• And no.... you are gonna deep detail each one to him.

Is he mad you told the meta and not him? Is that the source of anger? If so, apologize and ask what he prefers moving forward.

If it is something else he's angry about? Listen and determine if it's his own doing (ie: assuming, wanting mind readering, jumping to conclusions). If so? Then the one to fix that is him himself!

You could tell him you are willing to work out "info management" preferences with him so there's less bumps in future but one cannot plan for everything. Sometimes there's gonna be conflict.

So rather than try to predict every little thing? It may be more efficient to decide on what conflict resolution method you guys prefer to use to sort stuff out.

Galagirl

 

[Kidge0753]

Magdlyn and Galagirl,

I think you've both made some great points thank you.

Yes I think we need to work out how much is communicated and consent or not etc.

I also think your right I need to let him make the decisions with his feelings I just find it hard when he's down.

Yes I will definitely think more about who I tell what and when. I think some of the anger is from Meta knowing first but also 'Jazz' does tend to worry about my safety a lot. Not that they have had any reason at any point to really worry but they do.

I wanted to discuss things before I left but struggled to find a time to bring it up. So at least now we should sort things out.

Thank you for your advice

 

[Magdlyn]

Magdlyn and Galagirl,

I think you've both made some great points, thank you.

Yes I think we need to work out how much is communicated and consent or not, etc.

I also think you're right. I need to let him make the decisions with his feelings. I just find it hard when he's down.

Yes I will definitely think more about who I tell what and when. I think some of the anger is from Meta knowing first, but also 'Jazz' does tend to worry about my safety a lot. Not that they have had any reason at any point to really worry, but they do.

Jazz may actually have a valid reason to worry. I think it's risky business to have a bunch of drinks and then go home inebriated with a stranger you've talked to for hour or two. Who may also be drunk. I know it's a common practice, but personally I've never done it. And I'd worry if my partner did it.

I never go to a new person's place on a first date. I always meet, and stay, in public. I know there's this thing now called hookup culture where this happens all the time. I find it disturbing. Maybe Jazz does too.

I wanted to discuss things before I left, but struggled to find a time to bring it up. So at least now we should sort things out.

Thank you for your advice

You're welcome. Good luck. Feel free to keep us updated.

 

[GalaGirl]

I also think your right I need to let him make the decisions with his feelings I just find it hard when he's down.

Are you saying...

• When I see him sad, I feel down.
• Rather than comfort my own self so I feel better?
• Or leave so I don't have to look at him sad so I can feel better?
• I'm going to try to "happify" him, so then he's not down, so then I'm not sad.

Isn't that kinda the long way around?

You are responsible for experiencing your OWN feelings and making whatever appropriate behavior choices you make in reaction or response to them. You deal with yours.

He deals with his.

Not like wonky trade.... where you are all up in his feelings and emotional management. And he's supposed to be all up in yours. You can each carry your own emotional baggage.

If poor personal boundaries or poor emotional boundaries was one of the reasons you broke up in the past? And you want it to be different now? Detangle some.

I think some of the anger is from Meta knowing first

Then that is easy to solve. Apologize, and don't tell Meta things before Jazz.

but also 'Jazz' does tend to worry about my safety a lot. Not that they have had any reason at any point to really worry but they do.

I don't know how well you know the person you spent the night with, but I figure that's your business.

The thing is, I'm not dating you.

Jazz does date you, and he's helpless to help you if you get in a bind when you are abroad.

So... you may need to find the happy medium. Where you retain your freedom but find some local friends soon so Jazz can at least be assured there's locals to help you if a situation arises cuz he cannot.

Is that why he's mad? He thinks you engage in risks like you are a footloose single and take him for granted? Like "LDR partner" is not a REAL partner? Their concerns are ignorable/dismissable?

I wanted to discuss things before I left but struggled to find a time to bring it up. So at least now we should sort things out.

Or could stop trying to "find" time and just "make" the time. Esp if you tend to shy away from it because you feel uncomfortable yourself or you see him uncomfortable and that makes you feel uncomfortable.

The way to get comfortable doing hard talk is by just doing it and practicing. Not avoiding them/putting it off. YKWIM?

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Kidge,

It seems like you and Jazz need better communication with each other, especially now that you're long-distance. Do you know exactly why he is angry with you? Do you know all the reasons? Has he told you the reasons, or are you just assuming? If you are, I suggest you ask him for thorough confirmation. Then discuss what he would like you to divulge to him in the future, and what you are willing to divulge. What he would like you to get his consent for, and what you are willing to get his consent for. When you and he have your conversation with him, make it a thorough and detailed conversation. Don't assume anything, get and give as much clarification and confirmation as you can. In doing so, you will have a better idea of whether his anger is something to be resented. A lot of this could be due to (a) misunderstanding/s.

If you're willing, keep us posted on how your conversation goes.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Magdlyn]

I just want to point out to our members that Jazz prefers to use they/them pronouns. We also do not know the gender pronoun for Rock. It's important to respect that.

 

[FallenAngelina]

In all fairness to the general population, it's often hard to tell whether someone is using "they" purposefully or whether someone is just being grammatically incorrect, which is often the case. The purposeful use use of they/them when referring to an individual introduces grammatical confusion. Perhaps the internet ethers will come up with new, more gramatically accurate English pronouns that indicate singular gender neutrality - words that are a lot easier to pronounce than "xi," which doesn't seem to be catching on.

Sweden did it.

 

[vinsanity0]

OP referred to their partner as he/him.

 

[Magdlyn]

In all fairness to the general population, it's often hard to tell whether someone is using "they" purposefully or whether someone is just being grammatically incorrect, which is often the case. The purposeful use use of they/them when referring to an individual introduces grammatical confusion. Perhaps the internet ethers will come up with new, more gramatically accurate English pronouns that indicate singular gender neutrality - words that are a lot easier to pronounce than "xi," which doesn't seem to be catching on.

Sweden did it.

It can be confusing to people, mostly to cis-gender normative people. I have many many acquaintances and dear friends on the gender spectrum. In fact, I ID as non-binary myself. The pronoun "they" is extremely common. I am used to using "they" for people who prefer that pronoun. Also, many public schools in my state (MA) now start the school year by asking each child what pronoun they use, and honoring that.

I saw that the OP has mostly used "they." I'd stick with that myself, until further notice.

 

[Magdlyn]

OP referred to their partner as he/him.

If you reread the OP, you can see Kidge avoided gender specific pronouns for themself, Jazz and Rock. They only definitively used "she/her" for Meta.

Calling Jazz he/him later may have been a slip up. We all make mistakes sometimes with gender pronouns.

Maybe Kidge will clear up what their preference is. Until then, I am sticking with they for Kidge, Jazz and Rock.

 

[YouAreHere]

We use the singular "they" quite often, though, when we refer to someone for whom their gender is unknown. "Have you seen your doctor? What did they say?" That type of thing.

The singular "they" has been traced back to 1375. The OED site has an interesting read on the subject: https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/

 

[GalaGirl]

Unknowing that our partner didn't know this she managed to say something which hinted enough that he realised and is now really angry with me.

I also think your right I need to let him make the decisions with his feelings I just find it hard when he's down.

Yes I will definitely think more about who I tell what and when. I think some of the anger is from Meta knowing first but also 'Jazz' does tend to worry about my safety a lot. Not that they have had any reason at any point to really worry but they do.

I'm willing to go with your pronouns, Kidge0753.

Could you please be willing to clarify what those might be? Cuz sometimes there's been his/him for Jazz and sometimes they/them.

And then meta is she/her. So... not sure which ones you like best for which.

Galagirl