Could use some advice

[keepinon]

Are you saying you realized that this is not a healthy relationship to be in? Partner wants complete control of everything/you?

Going through the Polysecure stuff has brought attention to both of our unhealthy coping mechanisms. I would avoid any conflict like the plague, leading me to just ignoring any bad behavior. After a lot more talks, they understand that they need to do some self work and reflection before we talk though the situation fully. Also, if conversations get to be too heated, we will take time to calm back down.

If this isn't going anywhere healthy, it's okay for you to break up. You wouldn't have to concern yourself with who they date next -- this polycule or otherwise.

Breaking up doesn't sit right with me. If fights like these were a regular thing, I wouldn't hesitate. But things like this are few and far between events. I do enjoy what we have together. My feelings for them haven't changed, even throughout this. If, in the end, it comes down to breaking up, it would have to be a mutual thing. But even writing that out hurts. I have made it clear that I won't be letting things slide, but it is not a tactic to make them feel bad. It is me being more present and attuned with my feelings, rather than trying to control other people's feelings.

This situation did bring a lot of childhood trauma I experienced growing up, and the coping mechanisms I developed. I am trying to live truer to myself now, not just living to make others happy by ignoring myself. No mater the outcome of this situation, I will still be able to look back positively on it for the breakthroughs I had with my trauma and working out healthier coping mechanisms.

I have really appreciated all the kind words and resources that everyone here has provided. This has only made me feel stronger about polyamory. I know it is something that I truly do align with.

 

[Evie]

So, are they showing any signs that they will become supportive of you dating your way and not trying to control you into dating their way? And can the information sharing be managed more realistically, because knowing everything immediately is still asking for trouble.

 

[GalaGirl]

Sounds like both of you have personal work to do.

Good for you in identifying some of your things. On your side, your personal work includes healing childhood trauma and switching from "kid coping" to "adult coping." A kid is trapped. "Avoiding being noticed" and "avoiding conflict" are valid because the kid is stuck there. It's not like kids can move out and get a job and be free.

You are right. You don't have to do that kind of coping anymore, because you are an adult now. No more conflict avoidance. No more ignoring poor behavior. No more letting things slide. Yes to being more attuned to your feelings and being more present and more authentic.

You are not at the break-up place yet. Fair enough. Do think about where your limit of tolerance lies and what the deal breakers are. No break-up is FUN. All it takes to break up is one person saying, "I don't want to do this anymore." It does not have to be a mutual break-up.

I hope you think about counseling to help you with your stuff, if you can avail yourself.

Galagirl

 

[keepinon]

After a lot of the advice from here, I made the decision that the open phone agreement was not a good thing to have. I have since talked with the partner about this, and explained that it isn't just about my privacy, but privacy for the people I am talking to. They were upset about that, and explained that they "don't believe that things are being kept pg-13." I assured them I have been respecting that agreement, and I understand that they might not trust me fully yet, but I am not going to cave on my boundaries with privacy. The conversation was rough, but it felt like, in the end, we came to an agreement on it.

Today they wanted to know if I was comfortable with them messaging my friend to verify the agreement that was made. I am not sure how comfortable I am with that, because of the way they have handled themselves so far. I said I would think about it. They then wanted to see the message of the agreement, at the very least. This has me really frozen, because the coping mech side of me wants to just give in and not make a fuss. But with me trying to break those coping mechs, I am unsure at what point I should draw the line.

I understand that they don't trust me right now. But me compromising all the time is what got us to this spot. They mentioned that they think I am sending porn, nudes, and that I am keeping it a secret until they are ok with opening the relationship back up, so I can immediately get my friend as a partner. I don't know how to respond to this properly, because when we open up our relationship again, I will still want to go after my friend. But if we are open, it shouldn't be a problem. But now it will just make them think I was lying the whole time.

It's like we take one step forward and two steps back.

 

[GalaGirl]

Today they wanted to know if I was comfortable with them messaging my friend to verify the agreement that was made.

I think that's where you get to say, "No, thank you. I am not ok with that," because if they message the friend, and the friend says, "Yes, we made the agreement," what is next? Them deciding that you and the friend are in cahoots and lying about it?

I explained I would think about it. They then want to see the message of the agreement, at the very least.

I think that's where you get to say, "No, thank you. I won't be doing that."

You seem to do a lot of JADE with this partner -- justify, argue, defend, explain, rather than just saying plain "yes" and plain "no."

I get that your partner is uncomfortable with a lot of things, but there's being appropriately supportive/reassuring with a partner. and then there's you having to fill their endless black hole of need, because there's always ANOTHER THING later. That is both suffocating and exhausting.

This has me really frozen, because the coping mech side of my self wants to just give in and not make a fuss.

What fuss is there in saying, "No, thank you. I won't be doing that," for you?

Is it YOU fussing? Or is it the partner fussing AT YOU because they don't accept and respect your "no" as a complete answer? They get into the "Buy whhhhhhyyyyy?" and it's all variations on, "You must be doing X, Y, Z behind my back"?

I understand that they don't trust me right now, but me compromising all the time is what got us to this spot.

I still think you may have to talk to a counselor if you are going to continue dating.

They don't trust you and want to "check up on you" in various ways.

You don't trust them either, given the recent snooping and violations of privacy.

They mentioned they think that I am sending porn, nudes, and that I am keeping it a secret until they are ok with opening back up the relationship, so I can immediately get them as a partner.

I think that's where you get to say, "I don't know why you think that of me. But okay, that's what you think." And you step back and do nothing. You do not not fuel any arguments.

People are free to do whatever they want, including thinking wrong things, and cranking their own selves up over nothing. You don't have to help them with that. You don't have to fix it, either. It's on them to learn not to do that behavior and to self-regulate.

If they think you swap porn with the friend, and they don't like it, why not put their energy into their feet, drop you, and walk away, rather than put their energy into circular arguments?

I don't know how to respond to this properly, because when we open up our relationship again, I will still want to go after my friend. But if we are open, it shouldn't be a problem. But now it will just make them think I was lying the whole time. It's like we take one step forward and two steps back.

I think you need to detach and step back, when they are all up in their feels and talking weird.

And you make a tick on the calendar--

Breaking up doesn't sit right with me. If fights like these were a regular, I wouldn't hesitate, but things like this are few and far between events.

Over time, you will see how many ticks there were this day, this week, this month, this year. And if this is now regular fusspot? You drop them with no more hesitation.

You do not exist to be their emotional/mental/physical punching bag when they get all disregulated.

Can you take a break away from them? Like spend a weekend or a week in hotel sleeping and enjoying QUIET? See what life is like without all this "noise" going on around you?

If you live together, maybe you want to think about living apart?

GG

 

[keepinon]

You do not exist to be their emotional/mental/physical punching bag when they get all disregulated.

Can you take a break away from them? Like spend a weekend or a week in hotel sleeping and enjoying QUIET? See what life is like without all this "noise" going on around you?

If you live together, maybe you want to think about living apart?

Typically, episodes like this are not common. It seems as though me talking to someone in a flirting manner triggered them into feelings of abandonment. I have been setting boundaries for these hard conversations, and have had to take multiple cool-down periods throughout these conversations. Once things start to get heated, I stop before things go over that edge.

I'm not really able to take a break from them. Our lives are quite entangled with pets, living together, and only one vehicle for transportation. Both of us still come together, and sleep and cuddle in the same bed, and that hasn't been tense at all. I do really enjoy living with my partner and I do feel that we can make it through this.

I did try to make it known that I was uncomfortable with the idea of them basically interrogating my friend. They said they felt this was the only way they could get past this. I told them I was not policing who they talked to, however, I was not comfortable with what they wanted to do.

I've been doing a lot of writing today to figure out my thoughts on it. I think my biggest thing is I don't want my friend to see my partner in a bad light, since they are not like this usually.

I plan to tell them again that I am not policing who they talk to, but that I feel like if they go through with what they want, that it will change the way I view them, and I am not sure how things will go from there. I will not be telling them that it is okay for them to just do that with no repercussions.

 

[Sisilisko]

One other thing that has developed in this situation is them bringing up that they feel like they want to just start dating before we even get through the agreements, to "make me feel like I made them feel." I think that idea is stupidly vindictive and really isn't going to make me feel like they do, because I am not bothered by them dating. I have held myself back from saying that if they choose to do that I will go back to pursuing my friend. I think that would just cause more hurt in the situation. I just really don't know how to get things back on track.

I think it would be good to distinguish between "they feel like they want to" and "they want to":

- feel like they want to = this idea comes to their mind, unbeckoned, as part of the jealousy mix that was stirred up, and they're telling you about it in a subconscious attempt to show you the extent of the pain they're currently going through; they need to hear "I am sorry this caused you so much pain and thank you for not acting upon the impulse to be vindictive"

- they want to = they actually think it would be fair or useful to follow through with that idea

 

[Sisilisko]

I did try to make it known that I was uncomfortable with the idea of them basically interrogating my friend. They said they felt this was the only way they could get past this. I told them I was not policing who they talked to, however, I was not comfortable with what they wanted to do.

The fact that you don't need to have contact with metamours to feel safe in the relationship doesn't mean that your partner should be the same. Personally, I need to have at least some direct contact with my meta to be able to view her for who she is - a really nice and loving person, actually - and not succumb to jealousy. If I don't see her in person for too long , I usually start demonizing her. But if we have a chance to chat for just a couple of minutes, it goes away. (We usually discuss practical issues, like plans for the holidays. Sometimes she cooks for me and I come to eat with all three of them, including the kid.) The usual mantra in poly circles is "each relationship is separate and it's not mature enough to demand direct communication with metas in order to feel secure." I don't agree with that. I think each person's needs should be considered and a compromise found.

I suppose by now Friend knows that they've stirred some issues in your marriage. Maybe they'd be open to being in touch with Partner, if they could set their own boundaries about the extent, means and content of that communication?

Also, while I can be really upset and angry when fighting with Fasaani while possessed by jealousy, I think my communication with Hiiri has always been decent and neutral. Do you think the same could be expected of your partner?

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm not really able to take a break from them. Our lives are quite entangled with pets, living together, and only one vehicle for transportation.

You are not able to ask a friend or take an Uber to a hotel for a weekend rest and sleep break, while Partner takes care of the pets and home things from Friday evening or Saturday morning to Sunday evening? Nothing fancy, just taking a time out. Could you get out for the day, to spend some time apart and take a break that way? Do something quiet like taking yourself out to lunch or a bookstore for coffee?

I plan to tell them again that I am not policing who they talk to, but that I feel like if they go through with what they want, that it will change the way I view them, and I am not sure how things will go from there. I will not be telling them that it is okay for them to just do that with no repercussions.

You already told them ONCE. Why do you have to do it again?

I've been doing a lot of writing today to figure out my thoughts on it. I think my biggest thing is I don't want my friend to see my partner in a bad light, since they are not like this usually.

Why is the friend's opinion of your partner your biggest thing, rather than your own well-being?

If your partner bothers them or behaves poorly towards them in some fashion, the natural consequence could be that Friend ends up thinking this person is weird. Seems fair enough. Friend can think what they want.

Why would that matter to you? It's what Partner earned themselves through their behavior, isn't it?

Are you worried Friend will ask you why you picked out this weirdly-behaving partner to date?

Galagirl

 

[keepinon]

I suppose by now Friend knows that they've stirred some issues in your marriage. Maybe they'd be open to being in touch with Partner, if they could set their own boundaries about the extent, means and content of that communication?

They are aware of the goings on and they are open to talking with my partner. My partner and I are not married. Neither of us are into the whole marriage idea. Since my previous reply on this thread, my partner has done some work on what questions they have and how they want to go about asking them.

Also, while I can be really upset and angry when fighting with Fasaani while possessed by jealousy, I think my communication with Hiiri has always been decent and neutral. Do you think the same could be expected of your partner?

I do feel like they can be decent to my friend, now that they worked on paring down some of the more invasive questions.

Why is the friend's opinion of your partner your biggest thing, rather than your own well-being?

I suppose it's one part the people-pleasing aspect that I am still trying to stop doing. But another part of it is I don't want to scare my friend away from the idea of polyamory.

Are you worried Friend would ask you why you picked out this weirdly-behaving partner to date?

The friend is way too kind to say that, but I just always want people to see my partner how they normally are. I need to keep myself from trying to protect everyone all at once.

I can tell that a lot of you are worried that my partner is using this as a way to control me. A lot of this was hindsight is 20/20 kinda things. We had both not read up enough on polyamory and have been practicing it pretty poorly. The talks have been becoming more and more successful as we go on here.

I would handle their emotions the way I would as a child, trying to constantly read people, anticipate what was going to happen, and trying to pick the best option to make everything perfect. This led to me letting things slide and not addressing them. Honestly, it's probably best that this happened, rather than me becoming resentful for things I never brought up.

One revelation we came to the other night really gave me perspective to see why my partner was seeing some flirting and sexting. They mentioned that, for them, the romantic thoughts come after making a sexual connection. Whereas, for me, I like all the romantic stuff and flirting before actually getting physical. While it doesn't make their reaction any better, it does at least help make sense of the situation better.

I am hopeful that the 1 on 1 conversation does give my partner the closure they need to get past this. Either way, I feel as though coming out the other end of this, no matter the outcome, it will have been a marker point for me to actually think of myself for once, instead of trying to please everyone and protect everyone. I know I will still catch myself falling into people pleasing on occasion, but now that I know that it's something I do, I am more mindful of it.

I can only hope that it works that way for my partner, but they are on their own journey and I need to respect that.

 

[GalaGirl]

I suppose it's the people-pleasing aspect that I am still trying to stop doing.

It is good that you are trying to stop people-pleasing so much.

I don't want to scare my friend away from the idea of polyamory.

Friend is allowed to make up their own mind about what they do and do not feel like exploring.

If Partner asking them a bunch of things, even after you told them not to do that, is a turn off to the Friend? The boundaries are weird? If Friend decides you two are too wonky to practice poly-dating with? They are allowed to think that.

That doesn't mean they can't go explore polyamory elsewhere, with other people.

I just always want people to see my partner how they normally are.

You could expect Partner to behave decently when they interact with others, and let people form whatever opinion of their behavior.

It's natural consequences earned. If they go around behaving politely, people will think they are polite. If they behave poorly, people will think poorly of them.

I need to keep myself from trying to protect everyone all at once.

What are you even protecting them FROM? Making their own decisions/opinions? Experiencing natural consequences of their own actions? Having some feelings? Something else?

I'm not being mean, just trying to understand your POV.

it will have been a marker point for me to actually think of myself for once, instead of trying to please and protect everyone.

I am glad you have decided to take care of yourself first, because you count as a person too.

I am glad you will stop putting other people ahead of your own well-being.

Put your own oxygen mask on first, and then help others with their reasonable and rational requests. If it's not reasonable or rational, it's okay for you to pass.

Galagirl

 

[keepinon]

What are you even protecting them FROM? Making their own decisions/opinions? Experiencing natural consequences of their own actions? Having some feelings? Something else?

That is a very valid question. I really don't have an answer, which goes to show how misguided the feelings are.

You could expect Partner to behave decently when they interact with others, and let people form whatever opinion of their behavior.

It's natural consequences earned. If they go around behaving politely, people will think they are polite. They behave poorly, people will think poorly of them.

My partner does behave decently when they interact with others, but the raw emotions of it all, and some of the responses here had me worried.

The fact that you don't need to have contact with metamours to feel safe in the relationship doesn't mean that your partner should be the same. Personally, I need to have at least some direct contact with my meta to be able to view her for who she is - a really nice and loving person, actually - and not succumb to jealousy.

I think this was one of the more helpful responses. My partner did end up meeting up with my friend, and it ended up going well.

I do hope to look back at this one day and say I grew from this. I don't want to fall back into old habits again. I need to accept that life is imperfect, and that I cannot change that. What I can change is how I interact with it. I really appreciate the help from everyone!

 

[keepinon]

Welp, drunk update. Partner brings up person that is interested in them, so drunk me brings up friend. Partner goes through big upset episode. I am so upset myself now as they tried to act like I brought up my friend on my own and they never said anything. I am just upset about it all. Now that they have mentioned it straight out and that I was not available. My partner is acting as if they never mentioned anyone and that I was the one to bring up someone else. I am not sure what to do.... I am so not ready for all of this.

 

[GalaGirl]

Now that they have mentioned it straight out and that I was not available.

I'm having trouble understanding that part of the drunk update.

YOU know who these people are, but I don't. What does that mean? Is it...

Your partner mentioned it to FriendPotential straight out that you are not available for dating.

Something like that?

I'm sorry you are left feeling odd/unsure of what to do next/not ready for all this.

What is it that happened? From what I can tell...

• Partner wanted to talk about their NewPotential.
• You thought this was a two-way street actual conversation, where BOTH could talk about things. So you wanted to talk about your Friend/Potential too.
  • This was NOT an actual two-way conversation.
  • This was Partner wanting to talk AT you, not WITH you, like a one-sided talk, where they went on about their NewPotential and you were supposed to just be the audience for that.
  • Partner did not get what they wanted, so they got mad because they didn't get to talk AT you.
• Partner doesn't want to deal with the idea of you dating other people. They got mad when you brought up Friend for that reason, too.
  • So they had a cow and shut all conversation down.
    • You are tired of them having a cow so often.
    • You are tired of them acting like they want polyamory for themselves, but not for you.

Is that how it goes? If so, I think you could go in order, starting with yourself, and then outward.

• First you get sober physically. (Why were you drinking so much, to the "I got drunk" point? Maybe you don't do that anymore?)
• Next you come to calm emotionally. It's not fun to be whooshed at. But Partner having a cow is not YOUR cow to tend. Them having big feelings is not your responsibility/problem to fix.
• You detach, step back, and let them come to calm on their own without you doing anything about it.
• Then you make a mark on the calendar, to start counting the "cow frequency."
• You note if Partner is doing anything constructive about the cows-- apologizing for whooshing at you once they are calm, starting to read a self-help book, journaling, seeing a counselor, joining a support group, etc.

Because you laid a personal boundary for YOU to obey.

Breaking up doesn't sit right with me. If fights like these were a regular, I wouldn't hesitate, but things like this are few and far between events.

Just start counting the ticks. If Partner just has unmanaged cows left and right on the regular now, that's what they're doing now. You don't have to stand there getting trampled by runaway cows. You can drop them without hesitation.

Could read that whole post again.

Consider talking to a poly-friendly counselor to help you with your other personal work and support in your poly practice, whether or not THIS partner remains in your poly network, because YOU get to pick the company you keep.

People sometimes break up and get back together later, after sorting out their individual personal problems. Maybe that needs to happen here. Maybe you aren't ready to think about that yet.

Whatever you decide to do next, remember that you CAN have strong personal and emotional boundaries with this partner.

You can be sympathetic, and APPROPRIATELY supportive. But you don't take their emotions on board for your own self, like THEY crank their own self up and then YOU are responsible for fixing their feelings and their messes. It is not your job to make the whole world cushy for them, keeping them in a little bubble, so they never have to experience hard feelings.

One-sided polyamorous relationships are not okay. Both sides get to have the option to date other people. If Partner wants a one-sided thing, where only they can date, you CAN say "No, thank you. I'm not signing up for that."

My partner is acting as if they never mentioned anyone and that I was the one to bring up someone else.

Fine. You brought it up. So? It's not a secret that you are interested in FriendPotential at this juncture. Where is the surprise?

You know the truth of what happened. I know it can feel weird, because Partner is all cranked up and disregulated right now. But it's not like any logic from you is going to get into their hot head right now.

So let them come to calm on their own. They can think weird stuff. If they are trying to pick a fight with you, don't take the bait.

You don't have to "JADE" anything -- justify, argue, defend, or explain. You do not have to correct them on anything right now. You are also not the physical, mental, or emotional punching bag. You don't have engage. Let cooler heads prevail.

It's okay to say, "No, thank you. I see you want to talk about that right now, but I'm drunk and cannot give you my full attention. I think we need cooler heads first, anyway. I'm willing to talk about it next week."

And then you don't talk about it until next week. Hold the line.

Galagirl

 

[Tinwen]

Welp, drunk update. Partner brings up person that is interested in them, so drunk me brings up friend. Partner goes through big upset episode. I am so upset myself now as they tried to act like I brought up my friend on my own and they never said anything. I am just upset about it all. Now that they have mentioned it straight out and that I was not available. My partner is acting as if they never mentioned anyone and that I was the one to bring up someone else. I am not sure what to do.... I am so not ready for all of this.

You had a fight while drunk. Then you vented on the forum. I hope you feel better for having a place to vent, but I don't think that's something worth an analysing too much, or getting hung up on in your own mind.