Crisis of trust

Fran

New member
Hi to everyone, lovely people!

Here to share some pieces of my story, hoping to find some positivity and courage.


More than a year ago, my partner (F, pansexual) and I (F, lesbian) started to think about going to a kinky party. It had always been in our minds to explore something new together as a couple. We finally decided to go (we went in April).
In a moment of excitement, she told a couple of friends about it — and they basically decided to come with us. I was a bit disappointed because, for me, that was meant to be an intimate experience for us, not just another party with our friends. Later, she told me that it slipped out accidentally and she couldn’t say no to them.
What’s done is done, never mind, I said.




As the kinky party got closer, we — and our friends — got more excited. One Friday evening, my girlfriend and I had a date planned, but that same day, she told me she’d forgotten she already made plans for a “test-outfit evening” with the friends who had invited themselves.
I got irritated. Not only was “our” evening no longer “ours,” but now it felt like just another rave-techno party they all go to every year. It wasn’t meant to be like this — and she hadn’t even thought about that. Again, what’s done is done. It’s okay.




Quick digression: Months ago (maybe in February), we went to a techno party. A guy from our circle came up to me and told me he liked my girlfriend a lot (something had happened between them years ago) and he’d love for something to happen again.
I told him he should ask her if she was okay with that. I appreciated that he came to me too — he included me in his thoughts. In the following months, after my girlfriend and I talked about the possibility of something happening within our circle of friends, they started chatting and it was likely they’d eventually meet up.




Back to the kinky party. After the "test-outfit Friday," my partner and I talked again. I shared that I was hurt — it felt reduced to just a normal party with friends. We clarified things, and then she asked me if it would be a problem if she kissed the guy from our circle.
At first, I didn’t recognize why the question was so unsettling. But I just said yes, it would be a problem. I repeated that I was going to be there and I wouldn’t feel comfortable. Again, this was meant to be our first experience at a kinky party and again, she didn't get that.




The night of nights finally arrived. We went and had a lot of fun. Toward the end of the evening, I had an anxiety attack (something I suffer from sometimes), so I asked my partner if we could go home a bit early.
Before leaving, the guy came up to me and started talking. He said he wanted to get to know me better. We talked about my girlfriend and he told me he wanted to take her somewhere with his van, maybe camping. He said he "didn’t want to take her away from me."
I tried to cut the conversation — he was high. The last thing he said was that I could try with his wife. I told him that — aside from the fact that she’s straight — maybe she should be the one to decide that. He was basically trying to pimp his wife.
I cut the conversation short and asked my girlfriend to go home. I was feeling very anxious — and the party was almost over anyway.




At home, I told my partner what the guy had said. I said I was really disturbed by it. She was very silent and just told me he was an asshole and I should ignore him. We were tired and went to bed.

The next day, while we were having coffee, she confessed that she and the guy had kissed at the bar while buying drinks. I was dancing somewhere, so I hadn’t seen them.
I won’t write out the whole conversation and all the processing that took place after. But I was — and still am — very hurt. I felt betrayed.
I told her that I can't just vanish in front of a scratch like that. Our rules need to be stronger — otherwise there’s no point in having them. She hadn’t even considered what it would’ve been like for me to see them. I was also mad that she waited to tell me — especially when we’d just talked about him before going to bed.
She said she didn’t want to make my anxiety worse. She also justified the guy’s behavior, saying that yeah, it was an asshole, but he’s always like that — especially when high. But in my view, then he shouldn’t take drugs.



The idea of something happening within our circle was, for me, also about mutual care. The third person needs to care for me, not just my partner. He’s supposed to be my friend — or at least act like it — and have regard for me too. To make sure I’m on board. To ask first. Not just act on impulse. That’s why I appreciated that he came to me in February.
But at the kinky party, it was awful. Not just how he tried to manipulate me — knowing they had already kissed and he knew that it was outside our rules for the night — but also his behavior, like trying to pimp his wife. That’s a big NO for me.
I felt tricked.
Later, they called him and told him it wasn’t okay how he spoke to me. He apologized and said he wanted to talk to me next time. He never made an attempt to reach out to me, asking my phone number, nothing.




We talked a lot, my partner and I. I reflected a lot. My trust in her disappeared completely, and we spent a couple of months in crisis.
There was another event — a camping trip — and in the end, I decided not to go because he would be there. I didn’t want to see him or spend my free time uncomfortable. That led to a big fight.
In the past months, we stopped communicating clearly like we used to. Everything we had kept to ourselves — especially me — came out all at once, including the very big trust issues I now have. I apologized because I realized I hadn’t been sharing my thoughts and fears properly with her, so she was in the dark. We clarified everything, and she understood why I didn’t want to go. She reassured me that nothing would happen with the guy while she was there.




My partner met a new friend — let’s call her Baba — in a class she took. She asked the organizers of the camping trip if Baba could take my place, so Baba could pay for me and I’d get my money back. That was fine.
Well, on the first night, Baba confessed to my partner that she had a crush on her.
My partner told me right away. She was flattered, but nothing happened. Still, in my head I thought: What the fuck. Can I have a moment of peace here?

Jokes aside, I didn’t like it. Baba came instead of me, knew about our open relationship, and still decided to confess something — knowing we were in a sensitive moment. Days after the camping trip, I shared my doubts with my partner, and she told me: “Don’t put responsibility on Baba, she hasn’t done anything wrong.”

Well, I disagree.

I asked my partner if she liked her. She said that if things weren’t the way they were between us, she would’ve made a move. We’ve spent the last months talking and talking. I see her genuine effort to fix things. We're trying to go back to normal.
She has a date with a guy next week, and I feel pretty calm, like before. We’re trying to rebuild the same confidence we had, though I told her I feel like I’m starting from zero.
We also went out with Baba and other friends again. She’s a cool girl, I suppose. But I still don’t think what she did was cool. Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe I need more perspectives.

But for me, it’s fundamental how someone approaches my partner’s relationship with me. I can’t just be a name in the air — I need to be acknowledged and respected. If it starts with making a move when I’m not even there... uff. I don’t know.

I feel very unstable and insecure. I know it takes time. We’re talking like we used to, finally, and trying to rebuild trust.




Tonight, she’s out with friends — and Baba is in the city (she doesn’t live here). My partner asked me to join them at a reggaeton party (sorry reggaeton lovers, not my thing). My body and brain are screaming: stay home.
I thought deeply about why I would go. And the answer was: to check on her. And I don’t want that to be the reason. I am not crazy about Baba after the move she made.
I told my partner I’d stay home — I didn’t say why, though. I want to explain it in person, and I don’t want to ruin her night with ghosts from my head. She was very understanding and sweet. She said she’d write me when she’s going home, and maybe come to my place.

Rationally, I’m trying to trust her. And I think I am. But emotionally, I still feel unsafe.




I guess I wanted to share and vent. Maybe ask for some perspective or tips.


And also for... forgiveness for the long thread! :)

Be safe and kind to yourselves.
 
Hi and welcome! It was brave to come here and share your story. I hope it felt good, relieving and clarifying to vent and get it all out.

It was a long story and I am not sure how to comment on all the ins and outs. For starters, I am going to call your gf Pan, for convenience.

It sounds like you and Pan are fairly young and energetic and like to party (drink, do drugs?) and dance. You mention several social/party events. Pan is also a student, at least part time.

How long have you two been together? You don't live together. Do you both live alone or do you have roommates? Is this your first open relationship? Are you polyamorous? Do you personally want other partners, or are you monoamorous?

You say you have an "open" relationship. But perhaps you do not want it to be fully open, since you don't trust Pan to do things in the way you'd like. You seem to want "rules," to enforce those rules, to have Pan follow them, and even to have her prospective new partners (that guy and Baba, etc.) follow your rules, as a sign of respect for you as Pan's primary.

Baba is a newer friend of Pan's, and you got insulted that she mentioned to Pan she had a crush on her... You called that "making a move," and you found it disturbed your "peace." Does Pan just seem too damn popular?

You wanted the kinky night to be about you and Pan, but she wasn't onboard with that. She didn't keep it a secret from her friends, or from that guy. You felt it would be end up being just another party with friends. But if it was in your city, might you not have expected some friends to be there anyway? I know kinky couples can approach kink events differently, make a deal to not do scenes or have sex with people other than themselves. Pan deciding to return the guy's kiss seemed to go greatly against your expectations, but not Pan's herself.

You seem to want other potentials of Pan's to approach you as her "owner," almost, asking your permission to even like her, and act on their like, almost like a guy in the olden days needing to ask a father's permission to court his daughter, and later, ask her hand in marriage.

If Pan is not sure how "open" your "open relationship" is, I don't see how you expect others to know, and act according to your wishes, fears, and insecurities. This disconnect between you and Pan is at least part of the cause of your panic attack? I see you both making great effort to get more on the same page, but it's hard. Are you more of an introvert, and Pan is more of an extrovert? Can you each make allowances for these differing social styles and their attendant needs?
 
Hi Magdlyn!

Mmmm... not quite. We are together since 3 years. We have always been open, monoamorous. This is our first open relationship. We are not so young anymore (we are in the last part of our 30s), we both work and we don't live together. We are not at a party every weekend. All of that happened in a range of 5/6 months, but it happens sometimes that we go to some event or club, and not necessarily with alcohol or drugs.

I've always trusted Pan, and it's not true that I want to do things in the way I like. I called them rules, but they are an agreement the we both gave to each other and we both agreed to that. If this agreement is broken, I find a bit unfair to describe this situation like me wanting her to follow my rules. The rules, or agreement, are there for both of us. I didn't make them alone. We both did. I trusted her, since she agreed to not kiss the guy, and then she did behind my back. We always did our things pretty freeky and actually the only fixed rule has been to be honest with each other, and when something new happens we move together and cautiously along the road. Everything went great and we were very much connected until the kinky party. (I haven't said that we are a kinky couple.) She was onboard about the kinky party to be about me and her.

I do not think polyamory means "everyone does what he/she/they wants." People talk and they agree to something, and the range can be bigger or smaller, or it can change, depending on time and situations.

I don't think that people need to ask my permission. I would like to be aknowledged and not manipulated among my friends. And since that happened in our group of friends, it would be nice for my feelings to be considered. If more than two people are involved in whatever it is, I find it good to have regards of everyone's feelings and to check in. What's wrong with that? The guy is not some random guy from a bar. He is from our group of friends. If this can be related to be Pan's "owner," or a father that gives the permission to "court his daughter," like you wrote, well, then I am in the wrong place. The phrase about the peace was intended like: we were already in a delicate situation, and sometimes in a delicate situation, people need a moment to adjust. It was like adding fuel to the fire.

I am sorry, what you wrote does not correspond at all to who we are as a couple and to what happened.
Thanks for sharing.
 
Hey Fran

Magdlyn wasn't trying to be offensive, it's just that your information is quite involved/complex and we're just trying to understand.

Since you were going to a kink thing it's not unheard of that one person acts as the owner of another for the duration, so it was a legitimate observation.

What I was able to gather is that overall, you want apologies from Pan, Baba and the guy.

1. From Pan for taking away the kink party experience from being just a you and her thing, even though you have said "never mind, what's done is done" it seems to still be irritating you. And for kissing the guy behind your back after an agreement not to.

2. From the guy for the things he said and did while high, including kissing Pan, and suggesting you and his wife could possibly hook up. As far as you're aware she's straight (although they could have had conversations that you're not privvy to, so perhaps she's not entirely straight, perhaps she even asked him to open the conversation with you?)

So this is the same guy from the techno/February thing who did talk to you then about being interested in Pan, but when he finally acted on that conversation there's now an issue? Why? What's changed for you between that conversation and him finally getting a chance to make his move? Did you expect him to ask you again? Again, why? What had changed for you? Would he have known about that?

3. And from Baba for telling Pan she was attracted to her.

But Baba since she just spoke her truth. She wasn't doing so to hurt you. Are you annoyed she didn't talk to you first like he did? Was she privvy to your and Pan's issues? Or did she just know you weren't in the mood to go camping?

How have you and Pan set expectations within this friend group or with new people about how they can approach you both about developing attractions? You seem to have a bit of a minefield going on. How can you prevent future issues? What can you communicate to everyone?

Evie
 
Hi Fran,

It seems that your partner has been caught up in NRE for the obnoxious guy, she has not been thinking about your needs because of the NRE. And now, there seems to be NRE for Baba. You're going on yet another painful NRE ride, I'm sorry to have to say that. Maybe it won't be as bad as the first one?

Sympathetically,
Kevin T.
 
Hi Magdlyn!
Hi again. As I said, your post was long and complicated, and it being your first post, I didn't know you, and I was just trying to get a better sense of what was going on, what your mindset is, what your style of relationship is, just how committed Pan is to your agreements or rules, what you expect of her possible dating partners, etc. Please don't leave or not leave this forum based on one person's (mine) attempts at making sense of this large cast of characters and their interactions in one big post.
Mmmm... not quite. We are together since 3 years. We have always been open, monoamorous. This is our first open relationship. We are not so young anymore (we are in the last part of our 30s), we both work and we don't live together. We are not at a party every weekend. All of that happened in a range of 5/6 months, but it happens sometimes that we go to some event or club, and not necessarily with alcohol or drugs.
Okay, see, I had no way of knowing this from your post. You mentioned parties, "being high," kink, raves, going to classes... and even camping could be for people in their early 20s. Now I understand.
I've always trusted Pan, and it's not true that I want to do things in the way I like. I called them rules, but they are an agreement that we both gave to each other and we both agreed to. If this agreement is broken, I find a bit unfair to describe this situation like me wanting her to follow my rules. The rules, or agreement, are there for both of us. I didn't make them alone. We both did. I trusted her, since she agreed to not kiss the guy, and then she did behind my back.
It sounds like there were agreements, or rules, and Pan broke them, or bent them a bit, or didn't understand them, so I wondered if she was committed to the same kind of open relationship shape as you seemed to be.

(BTW, this is a board for polyamory, multiple loves, not just for casual sex, where a couple might be in love, but their other partners are meant to be casual, just FWBs, FBs, or hookups, and to honor the original couple's status as "primary," and their own roles as "secondary.")
We always did our things pretty freeky...
"Freaky" or "freely"?
The only fixed rule has been to be honest with each other, and when something new happens, we move together and cautiously along the road. Everything went great and we were very much connected until the kinky party. (I haven't said that we are a kinky couple.) She was onboard about the kinky party to be about me and her.
Okay, so it was maybe your first kink party, and you and she aren't kinky, and maybe you were a bit nervous and wanted to keep her closely by your side. But you were dancing with others? And she's "free"? But kissing the guy wasn't done with "caution"?

Again, I am just trying to understand, but this is confusing. I don't see where the freedom of choice (if you meant "freely") comes in. There seems to be a push-pull.
I do not think polyamory means "everyone does what he/she/they wants." People talk and they agree to something, and the range can be bigger or smaller, or it can change, depending on time and situations.

I agree. For an open or polyamorous couple, there can be agreements. But sometimes agreements can be outgrown, and need to be gone over. Sometimes someone makes a mistake and oversteps a boundary without realizing.

In three years of an "open" relationship, are these the first problems... Pan accidentally involving the friends in the kink-club plans, Pan kissing the guy at the event, then Baba saying she likes Pan unexpectedly?
I don't think that people need to ask my permission. I would like to be acknowledged and not manipulated among my friends. And since that happened in our group of friends, it would be nice for my feelings to be considered. If more than two people are involved in whatever it is, I find it good to have regards of everyone's feelings and to check in. What's wrong with that? The guy is not some random guy from a bar. He is from our group of friends.

I see you feel unacknowledged, disregarded and manipulated. I see a stoned guy kissing Pan. Was Pan high too, or was she sober and feeling that kissing the guy was fine anyway? Did the guy kissing Pan go against what you'd expect of him or any of your trusted friends?
If this can be related to be Pan's "owner," or a father that gives the permission to "court his daughter," like you wrote, well, then I am in the wrong place. The phrase about the peace was intended like: we were already in a delicate situation, and sometimes in a delicate situation, people need a moment to adjust. It was like adding fuel to the fire.
The "delicate" part was a new situation, a kink party, and a couple friends being told you and Pan were going (when you wanted it to be a secret intimate date), and your other date night being forgotten in favor of a clothing try-on night? Those misunderstandings, or rudeness of Pan's, leaked over into her kissing the guy too!! So, she made three mistakes, huh?

And then, somewhat unrelated, Baba told Pan she had a crush on her.
I am sorry, what you wrote does not correspond at all to who we are as a couple and to what happened.
Well, I am sorry too. I hope you come back and further clarify, if you want to.
Thanks for sharing.
 
I don't see anything wrong with what Baba did. She couldn't have possibly known about the depth of your relationship issues.

I'm not even sure if the guy did much wrong. Did he know kissing was off the table? As for him offering his wife, you don't know about their dynamics.

In contrast, Pan obviously broke agreements about the kiss.

But frankly, what does "open" even mean to you? I can't tell. From your description it does seem like you want your partner (and even third parties!) to ask every step of the way. Relationships don't thrive under these restrictions. So what's your idea of "open"?
 
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