Is it possible to have my cake and eat it too? I've been thinking about this for a while now and my current girlfriend and I haven't discussed it that much besides the initial conversation and my mentioning it on occasion. I told her that this isn't something I will abandon and she has still stuck with me though this past year. She sees the points I have made on this and hasn't objected at all however is is very quiet, submissive and reserved. She has self esteem issues and parental issues and has kids. I'm trying to do right by her and consult people who are living this lifestyle.
Cuckqueening and polygyny
- Thread starter Patandson
- Start date
FallenAngelina
Well-known member
I never understood this expression. It's pointless to have cake around if you're not going to eat it. Why be with someone who doesn't share the desires that are foundational and important to you?
fuchka
Active member
I used to be confused about this expression too, but I used to misunderstand it as "have your cake" as in "eat your cake" (like "have a sandwich") and "eat it too" (which just doubled up the eating).
Without the double eating, it still doesn't make much sense as you've pointed out.
Re OP - I don't quite understand what you're getting at. You want something that you "won't abandon" but your gf... isn't fully accepting? Doesn't object but doesn't agree?
Or, does agree but you don't trust her "yes"?
Without the double eating, it still doesn't make much sense as you've pointed out.
Re OP - I don't quite understand what you're getting at. You want something that you "won't abandon" but your gf... isn't fully accepting? Doesn't object but doesn't agree?
Or, does agree but you don't trust her "yes"?
Hi Patandson,
What is this lifestyle of which you speak? Polyamory is a lovestyle, not a lifestyle. Most of us have little in common besides loving more than one. Look around the board and you'll see that many of us are even single, solo polys. Some of us may live with 2 lovers, many of us do not.
We aren't necessarily into polygyny. FMF triads are extremely rare. A more common configuration is a MFM V. Where the woman has 2 lovers/husbands but the guys don't interact sexually, and may not interact socially either.
If you want a situation where you bang another woman in front of your gf, who has low self esteem and PTSD and is dedicated to her children, you may be in the wrong place. Are you trying to pressure her to agree to something you desire, but goes against her grain? Do you think that, although she hasn't "objected," she is not enthusiastic and may just go along with it to please you and not lose you? Many women in the swinging community do this. It's kinda sad.
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Hi Patandson,
It sounds like you are interested in cuckqueaning and polygyny. Have you put much effort into convincing your current girlfriend into going along with it? or are you mainly just going with the flow with her? Be careful about her quietness, it may be her way of telling you she is not okay with this lifestyle, also you need to do something to address her self-esteem issues and parental issues. A therapist can be highly helpful in that area, see if you can find a poly-friendly therapist (for your girlfriend) so that you'll have someone playing on your team. Also keep this forum (on this thread) updated on your situation as it evolves, so that we may continue to give you advice.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
It sounds like you are interested in cuckqueaning and polygyny. Have you put much effort into convincing your current girlfriend into going along with it? or are you mainly just going with the flow with her? Be careful about her quietness, it may be her way of telling you she is not okay with this lifestyle, also you need to do something to address her self-esteem issues and parental issues. A therapist can be highly helpful in that area, see if you can find a poly-friendly therapist (for your girlfriend) so that you'll have someone playing on your team. Also keep this forum (on this thread) updated on your situation as it evolves, so that we may continue to give you advice.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
I should have been a little bit more clear on when I first mentioned it. We had just matched on tinder and it was within 2 days of us conversing and getting to know each other. I told her that one of my deal breakers was polygyny so she has had quite a bit of time to call it quits.
We have been dating since December with a major communication issue that my now ex-wife and aunt caused "as young adults my cousins and I did a lot of experimenting and got caught but shifted blame "were we kinda broke things off middle of January but got back together together late February or early March.
She is naturally very quiet and reserved even around her family. When my son and I were at her daughters bday party I noticed that she only really spoke when spoken to
Alot of her parental issues is with her condescending mother and unsupportive father.
Part of my issues is my experience with women. I've never met someone as quite an sublet as her. I was actually surprised when I heard her raise her voice to get her son's attention
. I guess I'm so used to people going back on there word I'm not used to someone who does keep their yes is yes and no is no.
We do have communication issues though. And I'm working hard on that but I'm trying to get her to as well. Scheduling is a nightmare with her which I understand but there are times when I'm like hmmmm could have told me before hand that you had a few hours to burn before work. Another part of me thinks that she is so used to being single that she doesn't think of things that should click.
Idk I feel like this is just going to cause more questions
We have been dating since December with a major communication issue that my now ex-wife and aunt caused "as young adults my cousins and I did a lot of experimenting and got caught but shifted blame "were we kinda broke things off middle of January but got back together together late February or early March.
She is naturally very quiet and reserved even around her family. When my son and I were at her daughters bday party I noticed that she only really spoke when spoken to
Alot of her parental issues is with her condescending mother and unsupportive father.
Part of my issues is my experience with women. I've never met someone as quite an sublet as her. I was actually surprised when I heard her raise her voice to get her son's attention
. I guess I'm so used to people going back on there word I'm not used to someone who does keep their yes is yes and no is no. We do have communication issues though. And I'm working hard on that but I'm trying to get her to as well. Scheduling is a nightmare with her which I understand but there are times when I'm like hmmmm could have told me before hand that you had a few hours to burn before work. Another part of me thinks that she is so used to being single that she doesn't think of things that should click.
Idk I feel like this is just going to cause more questions
AlwaysGrowing
Well-known member
I don't understand your insistence in polygyny specifically. If she wanted to date others as well, would that be a deal breaker for you?
Your attitude seems fairly entitled. Just because she has a few hours before work doesn't mean it's time she'd want to dedicate to a date. And your comment about your cousin? What?
I think we might be having communication issues here too...
Your attitude seems fairly entitled. Just because she has a few hours before work doesn't mean it's time she'd want to dedicate to a date. And your comment about your cousin? What?
I think we might be having communication issues here too...
Let me repeat back in my own words so I know I get it how you mean it.
Sometimes things not presented in chronological order confuse me. I'm going to guess on some of this. I might guess wrong. You correct me if I'm getting it wrong, ok?
I take the liberty of using general fruit names. You change it to what you want and I'll go with it. I quote just to block it off visually. Blue is mine.
Is that where this is all at?
Well, if you are trying to do right by her and you do not think she's joyfully consenting? More like just "going along with whatever" because she's so passive/submissive and has bad self esteem? And it's a drag to schedule time together? Like you are doing most of the work here?
You might chalk this one up as a "no go." And seek elsewhere for what you want. Dating since December isn't that long. It's just been a few months. Not everyone you date will be a long haul runner.
You also deserve to be with someone who is actually into the things you are into and actually into YOU. Excited about it. Not coming at it from this "meh, yeah, whatever" place.
Galagirl
Sometimes things not presented in chronological order confuse me. I'm going to guess on some of this. I might guess wrong. You correct me if I'm getting it wrong, ok?
I take the liberty of using general fruit names. You change it to what you want and I'll go with it. I quote just to block it off visually. Blue is mine.
Is that where this is all at?
Well, if you are trying to do right by her and you do not think she's joyfully consenting? More like just "going along with whatever" because she's so passive/submissive and has bad self esteem? And it's a drag to schedule time together? Like you are doing most of the work here?
You might chalk this one up as a "no go." And seek elsewhere for what you want. Dating since December isn't that long. It's just been a few months. Not everyone you date will be a long haul runner.
You also deserve to be with someone who is actually into the things you are into and actually into YOU. Excited about it. Not coming at it from this "meh, yeah, whatever" place.
Galagirl
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It seems to me that "cuckqueaning" is not as common a fetish as cockolding. I see cucks all over the website Fetlife, but rarely do I see a self-proclaimed cuckquean.
I think the mindset of male cucks is, "I am inadequate. My penis is average to small. I get off on watching my wife get fucked by virile men with cocks bigger than my own." Often, the cuck himself is the one who initiates the fetish and encourages his wife to go out to bars in sexy clothes and find single guys who want sex, who are OK with the wife being married and her husband knowing, and are OK with her texting the cuck to show off the hot stud she is getting laid by, and maybe even OK with him being in the room watching, and perhaps being slightly involved in the sex.
In your case, why are you calling it cuckqueaning and polygyny? Your gf is not instigating and enthused about you finding a second woman to fuck.
It seems to me like you just have the most common male fantasy, having sex with 2 women at once. Break it down. Do you want another gf? Or do you just want someone to come in for casual sex, while your gf watches or participates? Do you want to establish a FWB relationship with another woman? Do you want to date her or just fuck her? Do you want a string of NSA women with whom you casually hook up from Tinder?
Have you talked about any of these logistics with Apple? Or is it all still kind of vague? Is she into group sex? Is she bi at all? How experienced are you or she in relationships? What if you fall in love with another sex partner? This is polyamory.com. We know it's common to fall in love with sex partners.
And I'm curious about this "cousin thing" too, and how your relatives came to share it with Apple, and why it caused a breakup (if that is what happened).
Doing polyamory, or even just an open relationship, requires great communication skills, good self esteem on both ends, and trust. It doesn't seem like you're quite there yet with Apple.
I think the mindset of male cucks is, "I am inadequate. My penis is average to small. I get off on watching my wife get fucked by virile men with cocks bigger than my own." Often, the cuck himself is the one who initiates the fetish and encourages his wife to go out to bars in sexy clothes and find single guys who want sex, who are OK with the wife being married and her husband knowing, and are OK with her texting the cuck to show off the hot stud she is getting laid by, and maybe even OK with him being in the room watching, and perhaps being slightly involved in the sex.
In your case, why are you calling it cuckqueaning and polygyny? Your gf is not instigating and enthused about you finding a second woman to fuck.
It seems to me like you just have the most common male fantasy, having sex with 2 women at once. Break it down. Do you want another gf? Or do you just want someone to come in for casual sex, while your gf watches or participates? Do you want to establish a FWB relationship with another woman? Do you want to date her or just fuck her? Do you want a string of NSA women with whom you casually hook up from Tinder?
Have you talked about any of these logistics with Apple? Or is it all still kind of vague? Is she into group sex? Is she bi at all? How experienced are you or she in relationships? What if you fall in love with another sex partner? This is polyamory.com. We know it's common to fall in love with sex partners.
And I'm curious about this "cousin thing" too, and how your relatives came to share it with Apple, and why it caused a breakup (if that is what happened).
Doing polyamory, or even just an open relationship, requires great communication skills, good self esteem on both ends, and trust. It doesn't seem like you're quite there yet with Apple.
I should have been a little bit more clear when I first mentioned it. We had just matched on Tinder, and within 2 days of us conversing and getting to know each other, I told her that one of my deal-breakers was polygyny. So she has had quite a bit of time to call it quits.
We have been dating since December, with one major communication issue that my now ex-wife and aunt caused. (They told Apple that) as young adults, my cousins and I did a lot of experimenting and got caught, but shifted blame. We kinda broke things off in the middle of January (because of that revelation) but got back together together in late February or early March.
She is naturally very quiet and reserved even around her family. When my son and I were at her daughter's birthday party, I noticed that she only spoke when spoken to. A lot of her parental issues are with her condescending mother and unsupportive father.
Part of my issues is my experience with women. I've never met someone as quite as submissive as her. I was actually surprised when I heard her raise her voice to get her son's attention.
I'm used to people going back on their word. I'm not used to someone who keeps their yes as yes, and their no as no.
We do have communication issues. I'm working hard on that, (and) I'm trying to get her to, as well. Scheduling is a nightmare with her, which I understand. But there are times when I'm like, "Hmm, you could have told me beforehand that you had a few hours to burn before work." I think that she is so used to being single that she doesn't think of when things should click.
So, you dated her for a month, then broke up for a month because of the revelation of some sex activity from your youth that you took part in, that she found distasteful? That sounds awkward! (And what's this about "shifting blame," and why is it important?)
Maybe you two need to stop seeing your families together. Both sides seem to be causing trouble for your relationship. You both have issues with your mothers!
I agree that just because she has a few free hours does not mean she needs to spend them with you. Everyone needs some "me time." I'd think it was healthy for a submissive person to make time for herself.
BACKGROUND
You and Apple met on Tinder and have been dating since December.
You ex-wife and your aunt told your new GF Apple that you once got caught fooling around/sexually experimenting with some of your cousins as young adults.
Little bit of back story
So my now ex-wife and I were together for 5 years and had been friends since kindergarten. I had a son from a previous relationship and got coustody here in Texas. During the beginning of our relationship 6 months in she broke her back horse riding and I was at the hospital every day I could be while she was recovering. This was in late December of 2015 I think . This will be important later >
During this time my family had a get together and I went to bed early as I was going to go to the hospital early the next morning. Some time later that night I believe around 2am I woke up to one of my male cousins who is a couple of years younger than I, and the son of the aunt in question and brother to the F cousin who started the whole shit show.
I awoke and He was going to town sucking my dick. I grabbed him by his hair and pulled him up and started kissing him rolling him underneath me and just as I was about to plow into him I fully wake up and realize the situation and tell him I can't do this anymore. After that I realize how drunk he is since I have to carry him off to bed after helping him to the porcelain gods for a good hour.
After this we had not spoken much and continued life as normal
In February / March of 2016 I and my son moved in with my now ex-wife to help her out. My son being born in 2014 I needed help watching him and she absolutely loves him. fast forward to September/ October 2016 I remember about the drunk cousin crap and let her know. She literally falls over laughing And said not to worry about it. I informed her early on in our relationship " before the riding accident" that my cousins and I had a history. We get married in March and things start going south financially as she can't hold a patient in home health nursing. And she has a major spending problem. So I began to work almost every day and sleep on my day off to recover. The house falls into disrepair and it's a mess all the time because I used to do all the cleaning but cannot do so any more. We begin fighting about her not cleaning when she is out of work which is what we agreed on when I started slaving away for us to survive. She started using sex as a weapon to get me to do stuff or go on a few trips. I fell back into watching porn, drinking, and smoking and when she finally got a job as a nurse at a local high school a guy started flirting with her and I told her to stop him or I would. I told her that I trusted her and forgave her for flirting back. Then she cheats emotionally I go into a rage and tell her that I forgive her but I'm going to go end that man's career she says that she is going to end it and tell him to back off. She gives it a few days for me to cool down and tells me that she wants a divorce and that my son can stay there until I get things settled. I pack my my son and I stuff and leave her and let her know that if she ever wants to see him again that she has to get her shit straight. I also tell her that if she goes behind my back that there will be hell to pay.. my aunt also calls her during this time and spews absolute garbage and she no longer want to try and work things out and start over with anyone. Fast forward about a couple months she has a boyfriend and she visits him at baby mammas and I am pissed and report her to the nursing board about every detail that she has informed me about her patients effectively ending her career.
I move on get a nice truck and I meet Apple she seems okay with polygyny and my reasons and pros to it and we star dating. We don't even have any sexual encounters during our first months into our relationship and everything is going well. We are tagging each other on Facebook, sending memes, pics of stuff we like and videos. I get an email from my now ex wife wanting to see my son and the exact same day Apple told me that my aunt had called her and she is pissed at me. I tell her everything and that she should have came to me about this in a different way. I try to salvage it but then I decided to end things I make plans to meet up at a park with my ex wife and son and it goes meh..... at the end of it I see apple and her kids walk by and we look at each other but don't acknowledge one another. About a week later she accidentally calls me on messenger and I forgave her for not coming to me and discussing it with me first. So things kick back up and we have sex on my birthday in March and she absolutely enjoyed it. And she kept going on for weeks about how if she had the time in every way she wanted me to have my way with her.. then my grandfather died in April and I took a hard hit of depression. I had planned to bring my son over to his house were I'm living and have been helping out my grandparents who were both of poor health after school let out but that still hasn't happened and he has been living with my mother and grandparents in the next town over since October when I had a mental break down.
So you broke up in Jan over that. But then got back together around late Feb or early March. (Is that how that break up went? Were there other reasons for the break up?
Communication is the major reason for breaking upon my end.
How were things solved? Why did you both choose to get back together?)
She said she will try to get better at communicating and I believe in forgiveness and giving people more chances that they should have.
POTENTIAL ISSUES
While a perk to you if the cuckqueen is submissive, you are concerned she is TOO quiet, submissive and reserved. (???)
I'm just not used to it. She isn't good at expressing herself.. I believe that it stems from her parental issues and being constantly put down by her mother and from what I've gathered quite a few of her exs
She has self esteem issues, so you worry this may not make her a healthy partner for this fetish. (??)
She is Beautiful and I tell her often but you know how children change your body and that is another thing that I tell her that she doesn't have to worry about. I've compared her stretch marks and cecerian * sp? Scar to her battle scars and tell her that they just make her sexier. She absolutely loves it when we talk dirty and is very communicative during this period. However when we talk about serious stuff and scheduling she isn't so much.
She has parental issues with her condescending mother and unsupportive father. Going over there for her daughter's birthday party was weird for you. You worry her parental issues will be a problem in your relationship because _____. (??)
They have really put her down in many ways. It seems like she is afraid to express herself or make plans because of how little they care about her. Her mother would often cut her off while I was there and I noticed how she gets treated.
You are used to people going back on their word. You are not used to someone who does keep their yes is yes and no is no. You also have never met anyone as submissive/passive/quiet as her.
Yes I have a lot of trust issues from being backstabbed a lot
So even though she didn't outright object, you have doubts over how solid her "yes" to participate is.
Does she REALLY want to date you?
Does she also REALLY want to do the cuckqueen fetish with you?
Or is she just going along with whatever hoping it goes away or hoping to convince you to drop it over time? (???)
This right here is my fear.
Scheduling time together is a nightmare and frustrates you. You think she's so used to being single, that she's not going to put effort into regular dating with you, much less be fun to cuckqueen kink with. (???)
Yeah I understand that she can come see me whenever and most of our time together is when we involve our kids down at the river where she could easily pass off her attention to our kids and have an out on talking about anything serious that pertains to our relationship
Idk I'm just flustered about this and it came to a head last night when she admitted to having a few hours of free time that she had no responsibilities. I wish she would have told me sooner and we could have planned out something.. I live really close to her work btw. She often says she doesn't know what to do when she isn't around her kids
You and Apple met on Tinder and have been dating since December.
You ex-wife and your aunt told your new GF Apple that you once got caught fooling around/sexually experimenting with some of your cousins as young adults.
Little bit of back story
So my now ex-wife and I were together for 5 years and had been friends since kindergarten. I had a son from a previous relationship and got coustody here in Texas. During the beginning of our relationship 6 months in she broke her back horse riding and I was at the hospital every day I could be while she was recovering. This was in late December of 2015 I think . This will be important later >
During this time my family had a get together and I went to bed early as I was going to go to the hospital early the next morning. Some time later that night I believe around 2am I woke up to one of my male cousins who is a couple of years younger than I, and the son of the aunt in question and brother to the F cousin who started the whole shit show.
I awoke and He was going to town sucking my dick. I grabbed him by his hair and pulled him up and started kissing him rolling him underneath me and just as I was about to plow into him I fully wake up and realize the situation and tell him I can't do this anymore. After that I realize how drunk he is since I have to carry him off to bed after helping him to the porcelain gods for a good hour.
After this we had not spoken much and continued life as normal
In February / March of 2016 I and my son moved in with my now ex-wife to help her out. My son being born in 2014 I needed help watching him and she absolutely loves him. fast forward to September/ October 2016 I remember about the drunk cousin crap and let her know. She literally falls over laughing And said not to worry about it. I informed her early on in our relationship " before the riding accident" that my cousins and I had a history. We get married in March and things start going south financially as she can't hold a patient in home health nursing. And she has a major spending problem. So I began to work almost every day and sleep on my day off to recover. The house falls into disrepair and it's a mess all the time because I used to do all the cleaning but cannot do so any more. We begin fighting about her not cleaning when she is out of work which is what we agreed on when I started slaving away for us to survive. She started using sex as a weapon to get me to do stuff or go on a few trips. I fell back into watching porn, drinking, and smoking and when she finally got a job as a nurse at a local high school a guy started flirting with her and I told her to stop him or I would. I told her that I trusted her and forgave her for flirting back. Then she cheats emotionally I go into a rage and tell her that I forgive her but I'm going to go end that man's career she says that she is going to end it and tell him to back off. She gives it a few days for me to cool down and tells me that she wants a divorce and that my son can stay there until I get things settled. I pack my my son and I stuff and leave her and let her know that if she ever wants to see him again that she has to get her shit straight. I also tell her that if she goes behind my back that there will be hell to pay.. my aunt also calls her during this time and spews absolute garbage and she no longer want to try and work things out and start over with anyone. Fast forward about a couple months she has a boyfriend and she visits him at baby mammas and I am pissed and report her to the nursing board about every detail that she has informed me about her patients effectively ending her career.
I move on get a nice truck and I meet Apple she seems okay with polygyny and my reasons and pros to it and we star dating. We don't even have any sexual encounters during our first months into our relationship and everything is going well. We are tagging each other on Facebook, sending memes, pics of stuff we like and videos. I get an email from my now ex wife wanting to see my son and the exact same day Apple told me that my aunt had called her and she is pissed at me. I tell her everything and that she should have came to me about this in a different way. I try to salvage it but then I decided to end things I make plans to meet up at a park with my ex wife and son and it goes meh..... at the end of it I see apple and her kids walk by and we look at each other but don't acknowledge one another. About a week later she accidentally calls me on messenger and I forgave her for not coming to me and discussing it with me first. So things kick back up and we have sex on my birthday in March and she absolutely enjoyed it. And she kept going on for weeks about how if she had the time in every way she wanted me to have my way with her.. then my grandfather died in April and I took a hard hit of depression. I had planned to bring my son over to his house were I'm living and have been helping out my grandparents who were both of poor health after school let out but that still hasn't happened and he has been living with my mother and grandparents in the next town over since October when I had a mental break down.
So you broke up in Jan over that. But then got back together around late Feb or early March. (Is that how that break up went? Were there other reasons for the break up?
Communication is the major reason for breaking upon my end.
How were things solved? Why did you both choose to get back together?)
She said she will try to get better at communicating and I believe in forgiveness and giving people more chances that they should have.
POTENTIAL ISSUES
While a perk to you if the cuckqueen is submissive, you are concerned she is TOO quiet, submissive and reserved. (???)
I'm just not used to it. She isn't good at expressing herself.. I believe that it stems from her parental issues and being constantly put down by her mother and from what I've gathered quite a few of her exs
She has self esteem issues, so you worry this may not make her a healthy partner for this fetish. (??)
She is Beautiful and I tell her often but you know how children change your body and that is another thing that I tell her that she doesn't have to worry about. I've compared her stretch marks and cecerian * sp? Scar to her battle scars and tell her that they just make her sexier. She absolutely loves it when we talk dirty and is very communicative during this period. However when we talk about serious stuff and scheduling she isn't so much.
She has parental issues with her condescending mother and unsupportive father. Going over there for her daughter's birthday party was weird for you. You worry her parental issues will be a problem in your relationship because _____. (??)
They have really put her down in many ways. It seems like she is afraid to express herself or make plans because of how little they care about her. Her mother would often cut her off while I was there and I noticed how she gets treated.
You are used to people going back on their word. You are not used to someone who does keep their yes is yes and no is no. You also have never met anyone as submissive/passive/quiet as her.
Yes I have a lot of trust issues from being backstabbed a lot
So even though she didn't outright object, you have doubts over how solid her "yes" to participate is.
Does she REALLY want to date you?
Does she also REALLY want to do the cuckqueen fetish with you?
Or is she just going along with whatever hoping it goes away or hoping to convince you to drop it over time? (???)
This right here is my fear.
Scheduling time together is a nightmare and frustrates you. You think she's so used to being single, that she's not going to put effort into regular dating with you, much less be fun to cuckqueen kink with. (???)
Yeah I understand that she can come see me whenever and most of our time together is when we involve our kids down at the river where she could easily pass off her attention to our kids and have an out on talking about anything serious that pertains to our relationship
Idk I'm just flustered about this and it came to a head last night when she admitted to having a few hours of free time that she had no responsibilities. I wish she would have told me sooner and we could have planned out something.. I live really close to her work btw. She often says she doesn't know what to do when she isn't around her kids
So blame shift on my cousins and aunt issue. My aunt caught her daughter and I going at it and I wasn't stopping because I was too into the moment but my hand was over her mouth and I was railing her hard and only noticed after I came in her. We are only a few months apart in age and she blamed me that I've been having my way with her and her brother but her brother has said that it's been consentual over the years. My aunt and mother have always hated one another. My aunt also hated my dad. Lol my aunt is just a bitter old woman..
I hope you feel better for airing some of that out.
As best as I can tell, the timeline is something like...
TIMELINE
With the cousins and ex-wife stuff... That's a lot. I'm sorry to hear of your grandfather's passing and the resulting depression. That's a lot too.
Some of it I think is best sorted out with a professional counselor because it sounds complicated.
You have had a LOT in a short time frame. Maybe this just isn't the best time to be dating yet? Maybe there's healing work on yourself to do first? You seem to carry a lot of anger. And you may still be in mourning and your mental health break down wasn't that long ago.
Why would her having a few hours free time fluster you so much? She may not have known she would have the time free ahead of time. Something may have surprise canceled. Her having a few hours free doesn't automatically mean she wants to spend them with you. She might want rest, some time to deal with chores, etc.
If YOU have a need to talk to her urgently about relationship things, I suggest you make an appointment with her.
It sounds like you could make arrangements so you can talk seriously about this relationship without the children under foot. Maybe set a time to talk on the phone after they all go to bed on a Fri or Sat or day there's not work the next day.
It doesn't take that long to ask her how into this relationship/kink she is. And if she's not that into it ? End it rather than drag it out. Because these are things you want, and you aren't going to get them here. Nothing meant about it. Just not compatible.
If this is your fear, I think you could address your fear by asking her directly and parting ways if it is not compatible. Why talk yourself into participating in a relationship you feel fearful in?
Could be super honest with yourself. And ask yourself
"Am I really into Apple and think she's the best partner for me/this kink? Or am I just trying to bend her into what I want and ignoring warning bells? Because I so much want to be partnered/less lonely/do this kink? Like I'm just making do with her?"
You don't have to answer that here. But could do your soul searching and be honest with yourself before moving on to ask Apple things.
Then you could just ask Apple direct --
"Are you really into this? Or are you just going along with whatever?"
You are the one THERE. You will know if she's just going through the motions and not really wanting to do the cuck thing.
If her words and actions don't match? You could end it calmly. Without raining anger all over the place.
Sometimes in dating people who are initially compatible are just not deeply compatible. That's what dating is for -- getting to know them and getting to sort out who is compatible.
You cannot help what happens in a Life. You can help how you react or respond to it.
Rather than think fearful things like "Oh, no! Not again!" Could think more like "I'm experienced. I know how to cope. I could solve it by getting me out of weird more quickly and being super picky about who I choose to hang out with."
When you ask for a clear cut answer from Apple about your shared relationship? If she changes to talk about the kids to avoid any real talk? That IS your answer. It's a "working no."
Because to make things simpler on you with a passive communicator? Anything less than a clear "joyful yes" is a "working no."
Keep this easier on you.
You might also consider not being around aunt, those cousins, or ex-wife any more. Not even to visit your son if these relationships are toxic.
With a recent mental health breakdown in October, and then still in relatively fresh mourning since April -- maybe you have enough on your plate without all that extra stuff from them.
I encourage you to talk to a counselor for more support if you are able and haven't already. You have had a rough time in a few years.
I get maybe wanting one area of your life to be fun/pleasant -- like your dating life.
But if it just isn't a runner with Apple, it just isn't. Can't force it to be. YKWIM?
Galagirl
As best as I can tell, the timeline is something like...
TIMELINE
- Undated Past -- Things happen so your aunt hates your mom and dad.
- Undated Past -- You and your female cousin and male cousin (they are siblings) start experimenting with sex together.
- Undated Past -- You and female cousin share sex. Your aunt catches you two going at it. She is angry and upset and claims you are abusing her and her brother. The brother says it's been consensual over the years.
- 2014 – Son from previous relationship is born.
- Undated past -- You and birth mom end it, and you get custody of son.
- June 2015 – Start dating Ex-wife. You tell her you and cousins have a “history” but not details.
- Dec 2015 Ex wife breaks her back.
- Dec 2015 ish – Male cousin (brother to female cousin) drunkenly performs oral sex you while you are asleep at a family gathering. Initially you respond while sleepy but stop it when you fully wake. Y'all pretend it never happened. (Was this cousin assaulting you this time? Are you still involved sexually with these cousins? Has it ended?)
- February / March of 2016 -- You and son move in with then GF, now ex-wife to help her out (financially? with her back? Both?) and because you need help watching son.
- Sept/Oct 2016 – You tell then GF/now ex-wife about the drunk cousin incident. She laughs about it and says not to worry.
- Mar 2017 – You and then GF/now ex-wife get married.
- Somewhere here – Things go south in the marriage for many reasons. She files for divorce. You pack up son and move out.
- Somewhere here – Your aunt calls your ex-wife and tells her stuff. Sounds like blaming you for all the cousin weirdness. Aunt no longer wants to try and work things out and start over with you or anyone in the family.
- Somewhere here – You get angry that your ex-wife moves on with her new BF. You call the nursing board and her career takes a ding.
- October 2019 – you have some sort of mental health breakdown. Son goes to live with your mother and grandparents in the next town over.
- December 2019 – Start dating Apple. You met her on Tindr. You tell her you want her only dating you, and that you are into the cuckqueen kink. These are non-negotiables for you. She agrees to keep dating.
- Dec 2019 or Jan 2020 somewhere. Ex-wife emails she wants to see your son even though he is not her son. You agree to meet.
- Dec 2019 or Jan 2020 somewhere. The exact same day ex-wife emails, Apple told you that your aunt had called her to spill the beans. Apple is now upset over the whole cousin thing.
- Jan 2020 – You break up with Apple.
- Jan 2020 -- You let ex-wife visit with son in the park. You notice Apple at the same park but say nothing.
- Late Feb/Early March 2020 – Back together with Apple. (Plus worldwide pandemic for all.)
- March 2020 – You first share sex with Apple.
- April 2020 – Your grandfather died and you fall into a depression.
With the cousins and ex-wife stuff... That's a lot. I'm sorry to hear of your grandfather's passing and the resulting depression. That's a lot too.
Some of it I think is best sorted out with a professional counselor because it sounds complicated.
You have had a LOT in a short time frame. Maybe this just isn't the best time to be dating yet? Maybe there's healing work on yourself to do first? You seem to carry a lot of anger. And you may still be in mourning and your mental health break down wasn't that long ago.
Why would her having a few hours free time fluster you so much? She may not have known she would have the time free ahead of time. Something may have surprise canceled. Her having a few hours free doesn't automatically mean she wants to spend them with you. She might want rest, some time to deal with chores, etc.
If YOU have a need to talk to her urgently about relationship things, I suggest you make an appointment with her.
It sounds like you could make arrangements so you can talk seriously about this relationship without the children under foot. Maybe set a time to talk on the phone after they all go to bed on a Fri or Sat or day there's not work the next day.
It doesn't take that long to ask her how into this relationship/kink she is. And if she's not that into it ? End it rather than drag it out. Because these are things you want, and you aren't going to get them here. Nothing meant about it. Just not compatible.
Patandson said:
If this is your fear, I think you could address your fear by asking her directly and parting ways if it is not compatible. Why talk yourself into participating in a relationship you feel fearful in?
Could be super honest with yourself. And ask yourself
"Am I really into Apple and think she's the best partner for me/this kink? Or am I just trying to bend her into what I want and ignoring warning bells? Because I so much want to be partnered/less lonely/do this kink? Like I'm just making do with her?"
You don't have to answer that here. But could do your soul searching and be honest with yourself before moving on to ask Apple things.
Then you could just ask Apple direct --
"Are you really into this? Or are you just going along with whatever?"
You are the one THERE. You will know if she's just going through the motions and not really wanting to do the cuck thing.
If her words and actions don't match? You could end it calmly. Without raining anger all over the place.
Sometimes in dating people who are initially compatible are just not deeply compatible. That's what dating is for -- getting to know them and getting to sort out who is compatible.
You cannot help what happens in a Life. You can help how you react or respond to it.
Rather than think fearful things like "Oh, no! Not again!" Could think more like "I'm experienced. I know how to cope. I could solve it by getting me out of weird more quickly and being super picky about who I choose to hang out with."
When you ask for a clear cut answer from Apple about your shared relationship? If she changes to talk about the kids to avoid any real talk? That IS your answer. It's a "working no."
Because to make things simpler on you with a passive communicator? Anything less than a clear "joyful yes" is a "working no."
- Hell Yes! I'm so excited! = Yes.
[*]Yes, but what if... = No
[*]Maybe = No
[*]I don't know = no
[*]I don't want to talk about it /avoiding = no
[*]No = no
[*]Hell no! = no
Keep this easier on you.
You might also consider not being around aunt, those cousins, or ex-wife any more. Not even to visit your son if these relationships are toxic.
With a recent mental health breakdown in October, and then still in relatively fresh mourning since April -- maybe you have enough on your plate without all that extra stuff from them.
I encourage you to talk to a counselor for more support if you are able and haven't already. You have had a rough time in a few years.
I get maybe wanting one area of your life to be fun/pleasant -- like your dating life.
But if it just isn't a runner with Apple, it just isn't. Can't force it to be. YKWIM?
Galagirl
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Allow me to paraphrase.
So, you had multiple sex encounters with both your male and female cousin over the years...
She accused you of rape?
Huh? There wasn't one "drunk cousin" encounter. There were multiple times you had sex with the male and the female cousin.
So much for a good marriage.
The cousin sex again? Something else? Your wife knew about the cousin sex by that point, though.
Why did your aunt call Apple? How did she happen to have the contact info for a woman you'd just started dating? (That is just one thing I find strange.)
How could she talk about it with you first? You hadn't told her, your aunt had. What is there for YOU to forgive? Shouldn't you have apologized for your crazy aunt being inappropriate?
That's a lot of information. It seems very complicated, what with threatening to "end your wife's bf's career," but then breaking up with your wife. But then, while broken up, "ending her career" when you found out she was seeing a guy. Why would you be so vindictive with a woman whom you had left? Sheesh.
And what a silly mess with your aunt somehow telling your wife AND your current gf about how you engaged in cousin incest as a teen. That's gross and tacky. I think I'd be afraid to get seriously involved with a person who had an aunt who'd meddle like that.
So, you had multiple sex encounters with both your male and female cousin over the years...
She accused you of rape?
Huh? There wasn't one "drunk cousin" encounter. There were multiple times you had sex with the male and the female cousin.
So much for a good marriage.
The cousin sex again? Something else? Your wife knew about the cousin sex by that point, though.
Why did your aunt call Apple? How did she happen to have the contact info for a woman you'd just started dating? (That is just one thing I find strange.)
How could she talk about it with you first? You hadn't told her, your aunt had. What is there for YOU to forgive? Shouldn't you have apologized for your crazy aunt being inappropriate?
That's a lot of information. It seems very complicated, what with threatening to "end your wife's bf's career," but then breaking up with your wife. But then, while broken up, "ending her career" when you found out she was seeing a guy. Why would you be so vindictive with a woman whom you had left? Sheesh.
And what a silly mess with your aunt somehow telling your wife AND your current gf about how you engaged in cousin incest as a teen. That's gross and tacky. I think I'd be afraid to get seriously involved with a person who had an aunt who'd meddle like that.
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powerpuffgrl1969
Active member
I'm calling shenanigans. The explicit depiction of the OP "railing" his cousin (s) seems almost as if he is getting himself off typing it.
If it IS true? The OP is a jerk for ending his ex-wife's career out of vindictiveness. I'm a nurse and know it is very easy to lose your license.
If it IS true? The OP is a jerk for ending his ex-wife's career out of vindictiveness. I'm a nurse and know it is very easy to lose your license.
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Galagirl
Dec 2015 ish – Male cousin (brother to female cousin) drunkenly performs oral sex you while you are asleep at a family gathering. Initially you respond while sleepy but stop it when you fully wake. Y'all pretend it never happened. (Was this cousin assaulting you this time? Are you still involved sexually with these cousins? Has it ended?)
Technically Yes.
Nope I cut all ties to female cousin after she played the R card
Yes it has ended and nither of us have spoken much since.
February / March of 2016 -- You and son move in with then GF, now ex-wife to help her out (financially? with her back? Both?) and because you need help watching son
Both and I really didn't need the help but I thought it would last forever and I wanted them to bond
Somewhere here – You get angry that your ex-wife moves on with her new BF. You call the nursing board and her career takes a ding.
No I was angry she went behind my back and saw my son on multiple occasions
Yes I'm seeing a counselor I have been since the Sept/October Mental breakdown.
I've question if it's right to be dating myself however I know myself and I can forge on. I'm not going to let anything stop me from achieving my goals in life.
Yes I do carry a lot of anger. I try to use it positively though and set and work towards goals in life
The getting flustered about things is because I wanted to talk about our relationship and have been trying to. She doesn't like to talk over the phone at all and she leaves some text unanswered. Yeah I definitely need to come straight at her with things and soon.
Ex wife, aunt, and female cousin are completely out of the picture. My family has had enough of the bullshit even her brother from what I've heard from my grandparent.
Magdlyn
Yes when we were younger. It stopped after the R card was pulled
That happened when we were adults and he could get around by himself.
Yeah the good marriage I worked my ass off and developed knee problems from working 12s on hard concrete almost every day. Hell I even fell asleep in public on my son's birthday that I actually took time off to bed at. I was sitting on a stool next to the bouncy house and passed out. There were occasions when I'd be at family functions playing Legos with my son on the concrete floor next thing I know she, my mom, grandparents, or her stepdad or mom would wake me up and ask if I was okay.
The cousin r card again yeah.
My aunt contacted my girlfriend though Facebook we were tagging each other a lot
Because if a someone called me and said something about someone I was dating I'd ask them if it was true first instead of believing a word from a stranger
Why should I apologise for the actions of another that I don't even have contact with?
My aunt is a vindictive and sad person that holds grudges
Lastly the reasons why I was so vindictive towards my now ex-wife
1 she kicked us to the curb and still wanted to see my son. After stealing years of my life and crucial moments that all parents want to be there for
2 after I changed my bank info and direct deposit she drained approximately 1200 from my account
3 I warned her not to see my son behind my back or I would take action against her.
Dec 2015 ish – Male cousin (brother to female cousin) drunkenly performs oral sex you while you are asleep at a family gathering. Initially you respond while sleepy but stop it when you fully wake. Y'all pretend it never happened. (Was this cousin assaulting you this time? Are you still involved sexually with these cousins? Has it ended?)
Technically Yes.
Nope I cut all ties to female cousin after she played the R card
Yes it has ended and nither of us have spoken much since.
February / March of 2016 -- You and son move in with then GF, now ex-wife to help her out (financially? with her back? Both?) and because you need help watching son
Both and I really didn't need the help but I thought it would last forever and I wanted them to bond
Somewhere here – You get angry that your ex-wife moves on with her new BF. You call the nursing board and her career takes a ding.
No I was angry she went behind my back and saw my son on multiple occasions
Yes I'm seeing a counselor I have been since the Sept/October Mental breakdown.
I've question if it's right to be dating myself however I know myself and I can forge on. I'm not going to let anything stop me from achieving my goals in life.
Yes I do carry a lot of anger. I try to use it positively though and set and work towards goals in life
The getting flustered about things is because I wanted to talk about our relationship and have been trying to. She doesn't like to talk over the phone at all and she leaves some text unanswered. Yeah I definitely need to come straight at her with things and soon.
Ex wife, aunt, and female cousin are completely out of the picture. My family has had enough of the bullshit even her brother from what I've heard from my grandparent.
Magdlyn
Yes when we were younger. It stopped after the R card was pulled
That happened when we were adults and he could get around by himself.
Yeah the good marriage
I worked my ass off and developed knee problems from working 12s on hard concrete almost every day. Hell I even fell asleep in public on my son's birthday that I actually took time off to bed at. I was sitting on a stool next to the bouncy house and passed out. There were occasions when I'd be at family functions playing Legos with my son on the concrete floor next thing I know she, my mom, grandparents, or her stepdad or mom would wake me up and ask if I was okay.The cousin r card again yeah.
My aunt contacted my girlfriend though Facebook we were tagging each other a lot
Because if a someone called me and said something about someone I was dating I'd ask them if it was true first instead of believing a word from a stranger
Why should I apologise for the actions of another that I don't even have contact with?
My aunt is a vindictive and sad person that holds grudges
Lastly the reasons why I was so vindictive towards my now ex-wife
1 she kicked us to the curb and still wanted to see my son. After stealing years of my life and crucial moments that all parents want to be there for
2 after I changed my bank info and direct deposit she drained approximately 1200 from my account
3 I warned her not to see my son behind my back or I would take action against her.
So I messaged her this
So I want to really develop our relationship and build ourselves up
Ive been wanting to talk to you in person about a lot of things. I sometimes send you messages that go unanswered and it dose bother me somewhat.. I know that you don't have a lot of free time and the kids demand a lot of attention. I get that. I just wish that we could sit down and not have to worry about them for a moment and focus on us. Yes I do have anxiety about our relationship and it's heading. I know that you care about me. I just want to make sure that we are on the same page and that I'm not a couple chapters ahead in my expectations. I'm not used to someone like you. Your so sweet, caring, quite, reserved, and motherly, and garded I just idk how to approach you sometimes. I do love you I just want us to grow together heathly
So I want to really develop our relationship and build ourselves up
Ive been wanting to talk to you in person about a lot of things. I sometimes send you messages that go unanswered and it dose bother me somewhat.. I know that you don't have a lot of free time and the kids demand a lot of attention. I get that. I just wish that we could sit down and not have to worry about them for a moment and focus on us. Yes I do have anxiety about our relationship and it's heading. I know that you care about me. I just want to make sure that we are on the same page and that I'm not a couple chapters ahead in my expectations. I'm not used to someone like you. Your so sweet, caring, quite, reserved, and motherly, and garded I just idk how to approach you sometimes. I do love you I just want us to grow together heathlyOk, a recent development in the last few months. It will take time and space to get used to that fact for both you and Apple.
I'm glad to hear you are seeing a counselor to help you with mental break down, healthy dating, your anger management, the issues caused by being accused of rape by your cousin even though it was consenting sex, and so on.
I think those are big issues best left to your professional counselor.
What are your goals? Is healthy relating one of them? You seem to mention that in your message to Apple.
If you've questioned dating at this time, maybe it's ok to spend some time reflecting on that. Dating doesn't have to be a “forge ahead” kind of thing. Where's the fire?
It could be spending some time healing and working on yourself first. Then starting to date again from a healthier place. Then letting the new relationship unfold at its own pace. So you can achieve your relationship hopes/goals in a healthy way.
I don't know how close you were to your grandparent, but his death was just a few months ago. IME, people need more time to grieve. You mentioned passing out/exhausted at family events and the family asking if you are ok. There's the mental health break down in fall.
I wonder if some of your "forge ahead" personality (??) led to some of the exhaustion and then the break down?
I get wanting Apple's reassurance that she's still willing to date even after all the crazy things that happened.
Your message is fine. Hopefully she responds soon and schedules a time to have the relationship talk you want to have.
I hope you know you are asking a lot though.
Apple has her own self esteem and family problems. Now you want her to date a person who had cousin sex with two cousins who are siblings, got accused of rape by one of them, then drama in the family with the aunt and other relatives taking sides, the aunt coming for Apple on Facebook, etc.
You and your ex-wife and have treated each other poorly. Apple may be wondering if eventually you will act like that with her.
Add a recent mental health breakdown, and recent death in the family?
This stuff isn't like 5 years ago. It's not even a year ago yet on some of those.
AND you want Apple to date only you.
AND you want Apple to do cuckqueen kink with you.
That's a very tall order.
Good that you asked to talk so you can get clear on where this is all going. Find out if she even still wants to be here while you are working on your stuff with your counselor.
Consider that she may be reticent to talk to you plain because she needs more time to think out how she feels about all this. Or she may be reticent because she fears you turning all that anger on HER if she speaks plain.
After thinking, she might say "Ok." Or she might end up telling you "I don't want to do this any more." Are you prepared to hear that from her without flying off the handle?
I encourage you to talk plain with her. While at the same time keeping your counselor up to date and working with them for how to handle whatever Apple's actual answer is. Whether she wants to keep going or she wants to bow out? Then you have counselor help either way to help you process the answer and make your next choices.
GL!
Galagirl
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OK, a recent development in the last few months. It will take time and space to get used to that fact for both you and Apple.
I'm glad to hear you are seeing a counselor to help you with the mental breakdown, healthy dating, your anger management, the issues caused by being accused of rape by your cousin even though it was consenting sex, and so on. I think those are big issues best left to your professional counselor.
What are your goals? Is healthy relating one of them? You seem to mention that in your message to Apple.
If you've questioned dating at this time, maybe it's OK to spend some time reflecting on that. Dating doesn't have to be a “forge ahead” kind of thing. Where's the fire?
You could spend some time healing and working on yourself first, then start to date again from a healthier place. Then you could let the new relationship unfold at its own pace, so you might achieve your relationship hopes and goals in the healthiest way.
I don't know how close you were to your grandparent, but his death was just a few months ago. IME, people need more time to grieve. You mentioned passing out exhausted at family events and them asking if you are OK.
I wonder if some of your "forge ahead" personality led to some of the exhaustion and then the break down.
I get wanting Apple's reassurance that she's still willing to date, even after all the crazy things that happened. Your message is fine. Hopefully she responds soon and schedules a time to have the relationship talk you want to have.
I hope you know you are asking a lot though. Apple has her own self esteem and family problems. Now you want her to date a person who had sex with two cousins who are siblings, got accused of rape by one of them, then had drama in the family with the aunt and other relatives taking sides, the aunt coming for Apple on Facebook, etc.
You and your ex-wife and have treated each other poorly. Apple may be wondering if eventually you will act like that with her. Adding in a recent mental health breakdown, and recent death in the family... This stuff didn't happen 5 years ago. It's not even from a year ago yet, on some of those.
AND you want Apple to date only you. AND you want Apple to do cuckqueen kink with you. This is a very tall order.
It's good that you asked to talk, so you can get clear on where this is all going. Maybe you can find out if she even wants to be with you at all, while you are working on your stuff with your counselor.
Consider that she may be reticent to talk to you plainly, because she needs more time to think about how she feels about all this. Or she may be reticent because she fears you turning all that anger on HER if she speaks plainly.
After thinking it over, she might say "OK," or she might end up telling you, "I don't want to do this any more." Are you prepared to hear that from her without flying off the handle?
I encourage you to talk plainly to her, while at the same time keeping your counselor up to date and working with them on how to handle whatever Apple's actual answer is, whether she wants to keep going or she wants to bow out. Then you have counselor help either way to help you process the answer and make your next choices.
Good advice.
From here, it seems like Apple wants a casual FWB to have fun sex and a little companionship with, someone who is a parent to do play dates with, and then scurry off for some good sex after the kids are in bed or with grandma.
You don't seem to have been dating each other seriously, yet. I can see a little relationship talk with with very low pressure happening at this time. As GG said, there has been a ton of recent turmoil in both your lives in recent years. Maybe this new relationship could just be a little oasis of fun and stress reduction for now. It shouldn't add stress on top of healing from all the Sturm und Drang in your recent pasts.