Did I marry a serial monogamist?

[Oly1]

Hi all,

I'm new in this forum, started reading here a lot lately as my (lesbian) relationship turned a new leaf from poly-in-theory to the actual thing.

The funny (and complicated) thing is, I'm not the one seeing someone else. This is funny because I am very poly in my mindset, but my partner/wife, Belle, really isn't. In the last 8 years we were what I called "practicing non-believers" of monogamy. (A singular "non-believer" may have been more accurate...)

But I was always clear, with myself and with Belle, that this was not ideal for me. Partly due to personal inclination, and partly because of the specific circumstances: we met at a very young age (20,22), she is my first serious (and sexual) partner, and I wanted to experience different things in the future.

Belle was not in the same place. Though younger, she had more sexual experience, was a self-described "slut," and was looking to "settle down" into something serious when we met. Our "openness" was first discussed when she broke up with me, after about a year together, because she said she wanted to try sleeping with men. I was upset, and told her she was throwing away something amazing just for some sexual experimentation. I said, if she wanted to have sex with other people, I had absolutely no problem with it, as long as she knew where home was and came back to me. As a result of this conversation, she wanted to get back together, which we did, and our relationship was defined as "open" ever since. (Although she somehow forgot about wanting men.)

Despite this definition, nothing really happened. I had crushes (usually for unattainable persons) and she would occasionally flirt, and we talked about our attractions for other people openly, but there was little time for actual dating, as we were both working students and were struggling to keep our one relationship alive in the time shortage we called life. Our agreement was that there would be no lies. We frequently talked about me wanting to some day have a relationship with someone else, and how she would handle it, but she maintained that although she excepted the fact I could one day have someone else in my life, she herself needed no one else and only had room in her heart for me. I think she probably pictured having a fling with someone else. But I don't think she ever imagined she would experience loving two people at once, until she also got a crush on a coworker, Bea, who turned out to want her too.

They started meeting up and having sex, which I knew all about (supported, even). But I was not all that happy with it, because my metamour (I hope I'm using the lingo correctly) is married and cheating, and I have serious ethical issues with that. But after much discussion I was convinced to leave this moral dilemma to the two people directly involved (the cheater Bea and my wife Belle).

The thing is, as we're going through this uneasy transition from words to actions, I feel Belle is approaching the situation from a monogamous viewpoint. She finds it very hard to see me suffering bad emotions when she goes to see Bea, even when I clearly communicate that 95% of those are about past relationships and childhood experiences. She even decided to terminate the relationship (while still in NRE!) to avoid causing me any more pain, and also because it's complicated on the other side and she hates enabling cheating. But she cites my pain, and wanting to save our relationship, as the main reason. She also sees herself as someone who is victimizing me, who has trouble initiating sex or receiving my love. She says she is very very confused.

We communicate a lot. I read up on polyamory to feel more secure in my lifestyle choice, but to my frustration, Belle sounds (in some of our conversations) just like the straight+mono friends I came out to: urging me to acknowledge the fact that it does hurt me when she's having sex with someone else, so how can I be as okay with it as I claim to be?

She also claims that when you love someone you should not cause her pain, and since I'm undeniably in pain for some of this process, then the entire thing is wrong.

This makes me very fearful. I worry that I am in (what I think of as) a poly relationship with someone who is essentially a serial monogamist. And though she might not leave me for Bea (who is unavailable), if she can't hold the concept of feeling romantic towards more than one person at once, the next time she falls in love and feels the need to choose, I might lose her to her NRE.

I really wish I could get her to find answers in polyamory, so she would get over the identity crisis this has created for her, and she would suffer less from shame and guilt, but I don't want to push my beliefs on her too hard. It has to grow from her, I think. I've given her some things to read, but since it's all in English (which isn't our first language) and polyamory is scarce where we live, she says she can't relate to the experiences described in forums such as this one.

What do you think? Can anyone with similar experience, who themselves transitioned from believing in monogamy to polyamory, share some wisdom? How do I help Belle through this, and handle my fear that she is actually, and always will be, a serial monogamist?

 

[dingedheart]

Hi and welcome,

Wow. I just have to say you have a great command of the language. I'm envious, because English is my first language.


The only thing you can control in this is you. You say your reactions caused her to react, which is causing this reaction, etc., etc.

You wanted this, and it finally happened but from the other side. You then reacted badly, which caused Belle to react, and now you think she doesn't have the right mindset. I'm not sure, but could you have control issues?

What happened in this situation that she approached this with a monogamous view? You state that in some of your conversations that her points or questions make her sound like a straight mono person. What are those things?

 

[Nox]

I'd guess it just takes more assurance. For years and years and years I kept trying to provide more than my wife wanted. I felt there was something I was doing wrong. If only I could discover what excited her she would love me more.

Eventually, after years of assurance and a little bit of counselling, I started trusting that what she was telling me was the full truth. I don't understand it. I don't have any idea how she can be happy with the limited attention I'm paying her, but I believe that she is, and it's taken a significant amount of pressure off.

Short version is keep assuring her, and give it time.

 

[Oly1]

More on the subject

Thank you both for your answers!

Yes, I do have some control issues, and I'm trying to work on them.

I guess when I said she was "acting straight and mono" I meant to address the fact that it is weird she is the one that, in a way, is practicing polyamory, but she still doesn't believe in it, which makes her, and me sometimes, feel like she's cheating. She expresses a need for me not to know, or not to care about things like the fact she's doing it with a cheater (which I find unethical).

This is hard for me to deal with. I feel like while I am asking "How can we make this work?" she is asking other questions, like "Why can't I stop myself?" and, "What does it say about me that I have these feelings?"

These are the things I would have liked to help her with, which is why I'm interested in the experiences of other people who sort of stumbled into this lifestyle first, and got okay with it later. If anyone like that is reading it would really help me to know how it worked for you, what would (and would not) help her in this situation, and how you made your peace with it.

The other thing relates to the second reply. I know I should give it time, but I am finding it hard to give reassurance. If I were the one in an outside relationship, I would feel like that's maybe what it takes, but in the situation that developed I feel that I mostly need it myself, since I am the one left at home when she goes to be with another woman, and this is all new and hard to handle. And any reassurance I give as to believing this is the right choice for us, despite the current struggles, is met with disbelief.

 

[kdt26417]

One observation: if you need more reassurance from her (instead of having to be the one giving it all the time), why not ask? As for "falling into polyamory," I think that happens to many of us. We often don't plan to become polyamorous, we just find ourselves in love with someone already partnered and look for a better way to handle it than cheating.

I guess I was lucky in that my "fall into poly" proceeded changes in my general ideologies that allowed for much more liberal ways of people relating to each other. The hardest thing for me was waiting for permission from the husband (whose wife I had fallen in love with). I guess sometimes it just takes time and patience to revise one's monogamous mindset.

Sorry, nothing earthshaking here I know, just thought I'd give what observations I had. I hope you and your partner can work things out, and she can be more at peace with the idea of being polyamorous.

 

[Oly1]

Thanks for your input! I'm pretty isolated on this subject in my social environment and truly appreciate any comments I get.

I do ask for reassurance a lot, but then I find myself worrying that she is only telling me what I want to hear (and more importantly, not telling me what might hurt), and that sort of defeats the purpose for me, since it creates trust issues.

The thing is, I'm not sure Belle wants to be "at peace with poly," at least not yet. She is talking about having a "dark side" and wanting to "break all the rules." I think this has something to do with her taking on a lot of responsibility, work and money-wise, lately. She wants it to be forbidden, so she can feel she is feeding this "dark side" of her.

 

[leelee22]

Oly, this is a terrible thing to say, but I have a tiny gut feeling, reading your posts, that Belle is saying some of the things partners say when they are trying to leave a relationship without having to suffer the guilt of being the one who broke the relationship up.

I could be very far off. My experience is very different from yours. For one thing, I've only ever been in one poly relationship, and it was brief. Second, I'm a straight female, and I've only ever seen this kind of "wriggling away" behaviour in men. I've always thought of it as a male behaviour.

I hope I'm wrong. But be gentle with your own heart, not just Belle's. You sound very solicitous of her.

Welcome to our board,
Leelee

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you hurt. BREATHE...

Next, deal with the problems one at a time.

Problem 1: Her cheating

She also claims when you love someone you should not cause her pain, and since I'm undeniably in pain for some of this process, then the entire thing is wrong.

As for the cheating affair, tell her it does cause you pain, as you struggle with the ethics and being disappointed in her. Tell her wish she would end it. It isn't her loving someone else -- it's the cheating aspect. It hurts you that she would choose to hurt people -- you, and the affair partner's partner. That behavior doesn't become her or flatter her. Ask her to stop it because it hurts you to love her knowing she can and will do unethical things.

Ask her if she is after reassurance that you value and love her, when she asks you things like:

... urging me to acknowledge the fact that it does hurts me when she's having sex with someone else, so how can I be as okay with it as I claim to be?

For all you know, she's struggling, and trying to make you jealous, and when you are not, somehow that "proves" that you don't love her. This is a weird way to treat people. Note it's a possible reason, not an excuse.

Problem 2: Your fear

Have you told her your worries and fears, that the next time she falls in love and feels the need to choose, you might lose to her NRE?

You could talk about how to handle NRE in the future so you get the reassurance you need:
How to cope with "trust and betrayal" when she's engaging in behavior that destroys trust in the cheating partner's life and other relationship. How are you supposed to feel about the safety of your own relationship with her, since she's a party to shenanigans like that? This time you knew. Next time, will she keep it in the dark from you to "feed her dark side?"

Can she get her "dark side" fed in other ways that don't compromise ethics?

Spill it out on the table and sort yourselves out. Holding back is not getting you what you need. If it's going to suck either way, maybe spill it, and try to arrive at something, because holding back arrives at nothing.

When you open a relationship, you pay full price of admission. There's no discount.

Problem 3: Your relationship with yourself

You could soul search a bit here.

What is the fear of this relationship ending about? Do you know your dealbreakers with her? Could she engage in behavior that would lead to you walking out the door? Are you clear in your mind what those lines are? Have you made this known to her, crystal clear?

There are two kinds of freedom -- freedom to and freedom from. There's the freedom to have a poly relationship. There's also another kind of freedom -- freedom from craziness.

Know your own boundaries, then you can make choices for yourself that serve your best health. You are not "along for the ride" in polyamory.

Become more clear with yourself and how you talk to yourself about this when you are thinking in your head. What you have here is not a polyship. It is you having a cheating partner, helping her lover cheat on their spouse. You just hope/wish it were polyamory. Why would you support her having sex with a cheater?

They started meeting up and having sex, which I knew all about (supported, even). I was not all that happy with it, because my metamour is married and cheating, and I have serious ethical issues with that.

Did you know the other person was married before or after they became lovers? That sentence to me makes it seem like you knew ahead of time. What happened there?

You could sort yourself out (your relationship with yourself), and then sort yourselves out (tyour relationship with her).

Hang in there,
Galagirl

 

[Oly1]

Thank you, GalaGirl and Leelee.

Leelee, as for her behavior being "wiggling out" so as not to feel responsible for leaving, I definitely think there is some of that there. And I appreciate you having to guts to tell me that. That said, I know she values our relationship and does not want it to be over. We've been through a hell of a lot together, and we do have a solid partnership of 8 years. I basically think she is just lost in NRE, and wants to go do her heart's desire, hoping and counting on her ability to come back to me later. That's part of why I'm so worried about the future. This may be a possible way to deal with this in the current situation (where the other person isn't really "eligible" for anything more than a fling, given age differences and family situations), but it does not bode well for our ability to face the next non-monogamy challenge.

I do share with her my fear of the future, and my disappointment with her for enabling a cheater. I knew from the beginning that Bea was married. Both Belle and I assumed (wrongly) that she was happily so. We did not want to jump to conclusions as to whether the other couple was monogamous.

After the sexual tension became obvious, Belle went to meet Bea and clear things up about what boundaries were relevant for each. That's when they first kissed. Bea then convinced Belle that her marriage was her own business, and should not worry Belle (not to mention worry me).

I found myself trying to be the voice of reason and morality, to someone who really doesn't want to hear any of it, going crazy with passion and wanting to break all the rules. And at some point I stopped fighting, fearing it would distance us from each other if I kept pushing on the "cheating is wrong" subject.

Not to mention the fact that whenever I address it I am being accused of taking on more responsibility than is truly mine to take, butting into other peoples' relationships (as I am not the one cheating or cheated with, I am not involved, in Belle's opinion) and/or hiding behind morals to ignore my own difficulties regarding the opening up of our relationship.

I have trouble discussing this with Belle, because I know she is disappointed with herself as well, and going through some serious self-doubts as a result of her behavior. I am trying to give her time to sort through this. I sure hope I would have had the strength not to go through with it if I were in her place, but I also know people aren't perfect and don't always live up to their own moral standards. It is what it is, and I don't want to be all "high and mighty," as she seems to accuse me of being in this matter.

Your comments did help me realize this "cheating situation" may have more to do with my issues than I was willing to believe thus far. I should (and will) discuss that with Belle. Maybe if the next time this happened the situation were more of a true poly-ship, things would be easier. Thanks for the input!

 

[GalaGirl]

I am so sorry. I imagine this is hard for you. But you could do the job in front of you, even if it isn't a fun job.

At some point I stopped fighting, fearing it would distance us from each other if I kept pushing on the "cheating is wrong" subject.

You talking about something you find unethical is pushing you apart? I don't think so. Belle choosing to participate in something unethical is pushing you apart. If she weren't doing it, there'd be nothing to talk about.

Do not let your soft feelings for her cloud your judgement, or let her off the hook for how she chooses to behave.

Own your part of it. You didn't speak up when you discovered Bea was a cheater and withdraw your goodwill and blessing for this to continue. you could tell Belle, "I could have said this sooner when I discovered Bea was a cheater. I am withdrawing my goodwill and blessing for this to continue. I am requesting that you break up with her."

A simple enough action. Hard to feel, but a simple action.

You can request things. Whether she chooses to meet your requests or not is on her.

Not to mention the fact that whenever I address it, I am accused of taking on more responsibility than is truly mine to take, butting into other peoples' relationships. As I am not the one cheating or cheated with, I am not involved, in her opinion, and/or hiding behind morals to ignore my own difficulties regarding the opening up of our relationship

This is obfuscating and blame-shifting, basically, shooting the messenger.

You are involved. Belle is your wife. She is your business. Your wife does something bad, it becomes your business. Until you sever the partnership ties with her, she is your partner, and your partner is your business.

She could rob a bank. That becomes your business. You are obligated to report her to the cops and answer to a higher authority. Are you answering to your higher authority in this situation?

Belle is your partner. What she does affects you. She is asking you to pretend that what she is doing doesn't affect you, so she can feel at ease in her mind about continuing to do it. One side of her mouth says that. The other side of her mouth says she should end it because it causes you pain.

You could call her on it, say, "Yes, you are right. It causes me pain. I request you break up with her."

If she balks at ending it, doing the clearly unethical thing, you have you answer -- Belle is wishy washy in her ethics. She does not demonstrate any respect to you in asking you to be an accessory to her shenanigans.

I am very sorry you are going through this. But someone around here needs to put a stop to it, for your sake. It could be you who does it, by demonstrating self-respecting behavior. Even if it means they carry on with their crazy by themselves, and you walk away for the sake of your own long-term health and well-being, it stops for you.

So ask Belle if she is willing to stop participating in a cheating affair and see what choices turn up next on the table:

1) You stay together, and do the work of repair and healing together. (Long-term health improvement for you, even if short-term stinky.)
2) You break up, and you do the work of healing from the breakup on your own. (Long-term health improvement for you even if short-term stinky.)
3) You stay together and do NOT do the work of repair and your fears continue about future relationships because of broken trust. (No short- or long-term health improvement here. No "cookies" at all. I don't suggest you pick this.)

Remember that you do not need to accept every invitation to Crazy Town that shows up. You can RSVP "No, thank you."

 

[Oly1]

Thanks, GalaGirl!

You've really helped me a lot with clarity on this.

We had an open, honest, conversation on the subject. I basically told Belle I hate the idea of this relationship with every fiber of my being. I am losing respect for her seeing how she acts. I will never be okay with it (which is not to say I am not okay with poly in general), and I want her to and think she should end it.

She's not ending it.

I told her I don't know who she is anymore. I feel that she has been hijacked by NRE and there is "no one home." She is (or I believed was? for 8 years!) a kind soul, someone who would never hurt a fly, an honorable person.

I've made my mind clear. Short of giving her an ultimatum (e.g., quit this or leave the house), I don't feel there is much more I can do now. And an ultimatum is really not my style. It feels very violent to me as a relationship strategy.

So for now I am keeping my distance for a while and waiting for my wife to reappear.

 

[nancyfore]

Hugs...

So sorry to hear that Belle won't stop and listen. This person she is seeing might not even be telling her the truth about the marriage. I believe in a previous post that Bea told Belle that her marriage was loveless or other wise not healthy (?). If Bea is being dishonest with her husband by cheating, she could very well be lying to Belle, and her husband could be sitting at home thinking everything is great. I know that something is wrong if there is cheating involved, but the marriage could be completely different than what is being represented to Belle

Do you know Bea and her husband? Are these people that will ask you when it all comes to light "Why didn't you say anything?"

If Belle can not see how wrong this is, and does not care who it hurts in this relationship, what happens if the next person comes along and is cheating? Is this going to be a behavior that continues? I know that is a hypothetical question, but one that needs to addressed. If this is a continuing behavior, can you stay with her?

 

[Oly1]

Answers

I would definitely not stay with Belle if this were to become a recurring pattern. If I wanted cheating in my life, I'd be monogamous.

To be honest, I can't believe this is happening now. It is extremely out of character for Belle, which is why I was hoping she'd "find herself again" soon.

To answer your question, Bea is also a lesbian. We don't know her wife, which I think is what's making it possible for Belle to ignore her existence, or at least her humanity and right to the truth.

She tells Belle that her (Bea's) marriage has no merit, no sex and no communication. (That last part, I'm inclined to believe...) Then again, she also tells her she's cheated before, and if her wife asks, she has every intention of lying. So yeah, I don't really think she's trustworthy. I told Belle to take everything she says with a grain of salt. She naturally resented that, but didn't exactly disagree.

I think Belle was just taken by surprise by all this. Despite the definition of our relationship as "open," she was totally mono, in action and mind, for 8 years. I had crushes (never pursued) every 2-3 years, but she never did. I would imagine my poly triad of the future, while she would picture us with a mortgage and two kids, picket fence and all. She said she never wanted anyone but me. Maybe just for 1-night stands for variation, sometime in the future.

Then she got a crush on a (much) older married teacher (that is, Bea). They became coworkers, and started getting closer. She assumed a friendship was building, but sexual tensions became obvious. She went to talk to her about limits, convinced Bea would tell her they could only be friends. That's not what happened.

When she came home after the first time they made out, she looked so shocked I was afraid something awful had happened. In hindsight, I should have suggested taking it slow at that point, you know? Figuring out what she (and I) wanted first, jumping into bed second. But that didn't happen. I never thought there was an option of asking to slow down until I saw it suggested here on various posts. Too bad I started reading here so late in the process...

I do know Bea, not very well, but we've had a few interactions, and they were positive. She's Belle's mentor at work, and a nice and giving person. I do believe her marriage has its problems, and from what she tells Belle, she tried to discuss them with her wife and was shut down. I don't think her wife is oblivious as to their problems, but I also don't think she knows she's being cheated on repeatedly. This is partly why I won't tell on Bea to her wife-- she is a stranger to me. If she weren't, this would probably be unbearable.

Granted, I don't think Bea is handling her marriage very well. But who am I to judge? It's harder for older lesbians in a conservative country like ours. And there is honor in sticking it out for the kids, even when you're unhappy. I am inclined to be judgmental, but am working hard to find some compassion towards her situation (but not towards her choices!). Every relationship is complicated. There are no bad guys and good guys here. (Actually, there are no guys involved... )

What's interesting to me is that once I made up my mind as to what I was feeling and what I needed to do, I felt way better. Thank you all.

 

[GalaGirl]

Glad it was helpful.

I'm glad it was helpful to you for clarity. I'm very sorry Belle's answer was not to end it with Bea. That is painful for you.

To be honest, I can't believe this is happening now.

Sounds like "shock" as the first stage of the grief process as you digest her answer.

At this point, you could take a few days' time out to digest her response. But you could put a time limit on that so you aren't hanging around forever. The result on her end if you do would be Belle getting to be with both of you, like her disregard for you is inconsequential.

Her devaluing you and your relationship you share could and should have consequences. You could determine what those are as you move through the stages of grief and your feelings catch up with your thoughts/logic.

You seem clear about these things, that for her to continue the unethical affair--

• Despite her knowing that you do not give you blessing and goodwill for this relationship to exist?
• Despite her knowing that you are losing respect for her as she carries on?
• Despite her knowing it causes you pain?

is not cool.

Now you know these things for sure:

• You now know that speaking up for yourself and drawing the line in the sand is self-respecting behavior. So even though the outcome is not what you ideally hope for, you can feel at peace with yourself. And that feels good. So, you could be brave, do it again, and keep choosing self-respecting behavior.
• You know that Belle knows all the above. She cannot be pretending like she doesn't know.
• You know now that her offer "to end it because it caused you pain" was insincere.

Hint: when someone offers to end something that is hurtful to you, rather than just end it, it's usually insincere. You called her on it and found it so. The real offer was, "Be okay with my hurting you so I can continue my crazy without feeling guilty about it."

Your next chess move could be this:

Wait a reasonable time for her to digest your line in the sand. Maybe she's in shock/denial and really doesn't believe you will go.​

​

Give yourself time to digest her response. It's a whopper.​

​

Since you shared 8 good years, in service to the relationship you once had, waiting an additional few days is neither here nor there. Give it a week. Then you could ask again if this is her Final Word. She will not end her cheating affair.​

​

Then you are free and clear to leave. You could tell her you want out, then get on with the business of removing yourself from shenanigans so you can be safe. Disband what you've shared; separate your households.​

It is not an ultimatum for you to choose to leave her because you are no longer compatible. She has now chosen unethical behaviors you cannot condone. She is going places you are not willing to follow.

You are allowed to choose healthy behavior for yourself. You are allowed to choose a different path for yourself. Not only are you allowed, you have to, in order to preserve your best long-term health and well-being.

Whether she carries on with her affair or not is her business. You cannot control what she does or how she treats you.

You do control the behavior you choose. You do control your "staying-ness." You grant or do not grant you willingness to be here for more crazy.

If you have to choose between respecting yourself or not respecting yourself, choose self-respecting behavior, even if the price tag is leaving her to her cheating affair on her own, while you remove yourself from the line of fire. Love her all you want, but from a safe distance and so you aren't racking up more dings.

Her asking you to put up with her having a cheating affair is rude.

I do not suggest you stay in this relationship with a partner who does not respect you. That can take time to take in, and digest, and accept that this is really the place you are at. I get that. You will grieve... but again... even if it sucks, you could grit your teeth and do the job in front of you.

Decide to opt out of continuing shenanigans.

Leave, so she gets a taste of what she's going to be facing if she doesn't get it together.

Choose being true to yourself over compromising your own ethics or values.

Hang in there. It's not easy to feel, I know.

 

[GalaGirl]

I do know Bea, not very well, but we've had a few interactions, and they were positive. She's Belle's mentor at work, and a nice and giving person. I do believe her marriage has its problems, and from what she tells Belle, she tried to discuss them with her wife and was shut down.

Cheating Affair partner's word is believable HOW? She could be spinning whatever at Belle to get her.

She is being "nice." The other meaning for "nice" is "accurate, exact, or fitting" The cheating lying person lies to people. Now she's just also lying to your partner. This IS nice and accurate expectation of a liar. Expect them to lie some more. That fits.

If you mean "nice" like "pleasant"? Someone can be pleasant at work but a jerk at home, because it serves them. That's called two-faced. So she's a two-faced liar. Ugh.

At more time goes on and more stuff comes up, when the lying person continues behavior that shows their true colors, continues with lies to get what they want, you could believe they are lying person! It's just that she's smooth-talkin' your partner right now.

I don't think her wife is oblivious as to their problems, but I also don't think she knows she's being cheated on repeatedly . This is partly why I won't tell on Bea to her wife. She is a stranger to me. If she weren't, this would probably be unbearable.

So you would tell a friend her house was on fire, but not a stranger?

Granted, I don't think Bea is handling her marriage very well. But who am I to judge? It's harder for older lesbians in a conservative country like ours. And there is honor in sticking it out for the kids even when you're unhappy. I am inclined to be judgmental, but am working hard to find some compassion towards her situation (but not towards her choices!). Every relationship is complicated. There are no bad guys and good guys here. (Actually, there are no guys involved...)

This sounds like bargaining talk to ease yourself out of feeling yucky about having chosen to not tell Bea's wife, the stranger, that her house is on fire.

It's fine to decide NOT to right now. You don't have to tend to the planet. You have no obligation to.

But for your own well-being in your thoughts and mental health, you could call it what it is. "I am talking myself out of making the call right now."

More accurate might be: "I am full up at this time. So at this time I don't care to tell that lady her house is on fire, because I'm busy dealing with my own house on fire. There's only so much I can take at a time."

Shelve the telling until a better time. But you could not start down the slippery slope of telling yourself half-baked stuff in your thoughts. YKWIM?

Your mental health is getting a workout here. This situation is hard enough as is. Keeping the ability to see clear is challenging without adding bonus fog too. You have plenty fog from Belle and Bea to contend with.

You sound like a pleasant person in general. You could aim for nice, as in, accurate in living according to your code. Don't just "believe" your ethics. Exercise them. Practice your hot beliefs and your hot ethics as you navigate through this. That's what ethics are for -- to help you navigate.

Hang in there,
Galagirl

 

[Oly1]

To be honest I meant "nice" in the usual modern sense, you know, a friendly and pleasant person. In the short time I've known her, she has been very generous with me, helping me with a medical problem, doing favors and so on. Now I'm thinking this may have all been in an effort to get close to my wife, so maybe not so "nice," after all.

It's just that she's smooth-talkin' your partner now.

That is definitely true. And it worries me. Belle has actually been talking things that I know are Bea's words coming out of her mouth. Another reason to lose respect. And to talk back, so she can have some perspective, and a narrative that fights the justifications she's being fed.

In regards to telling on Bea to her wife, I never even considered it until someone here suggested it.

This sounds like bargaining talk to ease yourself out of feeling yucky about having chosen to not tell the wife, a stranger, that her house is on fire.

I don't actually think letting her know is the right thing to do. It might only cause more pain, and negatively affect the lives of children. So I don't need to talk myself out of it. I would have a very hard time with this if the woman being cheated on was a friend of mine, because I would have to actively not tell her. And I detest lying. But I would still probably refrain from telling.

I don't think the analogy is "house on fire." If the children are OK, and otherwise the house may not be "on fire," but the kids will burn and suffer, then maybe not knowing is better. This is not someone who is happily at work or away somewhere and could be totally unaware of what their wife is doing. Bea and Belle get together at late hours with some really lame excuses. I would not burst a stranger's bubble, when they chose not to confront a difficult issue (yet?), just so I could feel better about myself, while ignoring the fact that they, and everyone around them. kids included, would only suffer. Anyway, the "would you tell your friend you've seen her husband with another woman?" dilemma is hard, and we each have our own perspective on it.

I am taking a time-out of sorts, and it might have a deadline, but I don't think a week will do. 8 years of true companionship merits a slightly longer chance to get it together. For now, we are not sleeping in the same room, I've stopped touching her, and I don't ask her about her dates with Bea, how they went, and so on. I don't actually ask her much of anything, or share with her what's going on with me.

So, we do still live in the same house, but I don't think she's getting to go on with both the affair and our partnership. I don't think she gets it yet that this is how it's going to be for me until this is over. She might be telling herself I'm hurt, and if she could only reassure me everything will be OK between us (as I am not un-OK with the concept of her sleeping with others). But she will realize in a few days this is not me being hurt, this is me drawing a line in the sand.

Let's see for how long she is willing to only get affection and attention from Bea, and see her life-partnership slipping from grasp. With all due respect to NRE, I choose to trust that she will get it together. I just hope she does so before it's too late.

 

[Cleo]

I'll tell my story, which has a slightly different perspective.

My husband has been with his GF for almost 2 years. She is cheating on her boyfriend, has other partners who cheat on their partners with her, and has cheated on my husband.

The situation is not exactly the same as yours. She lives in another city, our social circles don't overlap, I almost never see her, and don't know any of her other partners. So I'll just focus on this part of your situation: "I don't know who she is anymore. I thought she was an honorable person."

I have struggled very very hard with this, and am sometimes still struggling. It has been a major life lesson for me to get to the point where I understand that it is possible to love, honor and respect a person who loves someone I cannot love, honor or respect. And there are moments, even 2 years in, when I still get that feeling-- "Who are you?"

My husband is his own person. He chooses his relationships. He chooses to be with her for reasons that are beyond my grasp. I try not to judge him for it, and focus on how he treats me (and there have been bumps in the road there, as well.. some broken rules and trust, little lies, etc., mostly in the beginning under the influence of NRE), and how he behaves towards me.

There's nothing I can tell him to do or not do when it comes to his one-on-one relationship with her. I can say what I do not want for myself, or for my life. Like, that I don't want to socialize with her; that I don't ever want to be put in the position where I would have to lie for her. Certain things I don't like her to do when she is at our house (when I am not there).

I am not saying that this is a point you should get to. Certainly the situation where you know Bea's wife, and they work together, very much complicates things. I just wanted to point out that it is possible to have a happy poly relationship with someone who is in a relationship you don't like or approve of. That is not a common viewpoint on these boards, I think. It's not ideal, but it's also not impossible.

 

[GalaGirl]

Now I'm thinking this may have all been in an effort to get close to Belle, so maybe not so "nice" after all.

That's what I was thinking. "Nice" like accurate, smooth-talkin' person just doing what it takes to get her own way, on the "surface" friendly, as long as it serves her purposes, but not genuinely friendly.

It certainly is not "friendly" to put you and Belle as accessories to a cheating affair. And it is not "friendly" to be feeding Belle lies, or "massaged" lies, so they go down more tasty. Belle is NRE drunk (at best, but still a lame reason to choose to participate in a cheating affair) or just not caring about anyone (at worst), you or Bea's wife!

I would not burst a strangers' bubble, when they chose not to confront a difficult issue (yet?), just so I could feel better about myself while ignoring the fact that they, and everyone around them, kids included, would only suffer.

My point was that you only know information about their marriage situation FROM THE LYING BEA.

She only says "She tried to talk to her wife about the marriage problems, but the wife shut her down." Did you get verification from the wife that this is actually true? This conversation actually took place? Nope. I'm not hearing that.

So why believe what the liar said about the state of the marriage?

It's more attractive sounding Belle to hear, "My wife doesn't understand me," or, "My wife alienated me first," type stuff. That's classic cheater talk. It lures people in with their charm and goes down tastier than, "I'm a two-faced liar who keeps my wife in the dark about my cheating. Can I get into your pants now?"

On telling the wife... we have to differ on that one, because I think she is already suffering. She is just unaware. Like cancer then, if not a fire. That wife does not yet know that her relationship is not healthy, when it isn't.

I would want to know if my partner were cheating on me. Someone who lies about cheating can lie about using protection when cheating too. Then they are putting mt body at risk when they have unprotected sex with me. And that (given the right disease) could kill me.

But if you want to shelve it at this time, shelve it at this time. Think about it later. You have your own problems.

If a week's time out is too short for you to come to the next decision, take the time you need. Everyone is different. It was just a suggestion.

Do process and keep moving it forward. Guard against anyone (Belle or Bea) smooth-talkin' you or playing on your soft feelings for Belle. This is messy. Watch out for more smoke and mirrors.

I am glad you are in separate rooms, and your "I am not on board with this" attitude is being felt at home. There are consequences to choosing this, not just "losing respect." Let Belle feel that.

 

[GalaGirl]

I have struggled very very hard with this, and am sometimes still struggling. It has been a major life lesson for me to get to the point where I understand that it is possible to love, honor and respect a person who loves someone I cannot love, honor or respect. And there are moments, even 2 years in, when I still get that feeling-- "Who are you?"

I try not to judge him for it, and focus on how he treats me (and there have been bumps in the road there, as well, some broken rules and trust, little lies, etc., mostly in the beginning under the influence of NRE) and how he behaves towards me.

Cleo, the above does not sound "happy" to me.

I just wanted to point out that it is possible to have a happy poly relationship with someone who is in a relationship you don't like or approve of.[/COLOR]

It is possible to be in some kind of relationship, I'll grant you that. But to me, there's nothing there that sounds very "happy."

One doesn't have to love their metamour But there can be respect. In both cases, this is not polyamory, imo. They are "cheating affairs."

 

[Cleo]

Cleo, the above does not sound "happy" to me.

Well, I'm happy with him. I'm not always happy with his choices, or with his other relationship with my metamour. But it's my choice, and a positive choice, to accept it. I don't see it as being resigned.

Yes, there was trust broken, but we've come a long way in 2 years.

No, I'm not always happy. It is not my goal to be always happy. The happy outweighs the unhappy more than enough. The unhappy is always a chance to learn more about myself, him, and our relationship.

I don't mean to hijack this thread, and I think my situation is very different from the OP. There are no absolute solutions here, I think. But I do think that my point of view is one that is rarely heard on these boards, which is why I wanted to add my story - which is, in my opinion, not an unhappy one at all.