Different Emotional Reactions to Implicit vs Explicit Hierarchy

A

Arius

New member
I could use some help sorting through a feeling.

I am in a relationship with a person who used to be my cohabiting partner of 6 years. We stopped living together a year ago. Now she is living with someone else. They have better chemistry than we did, and it's been implicitly clear for a long time that he is her top priority and our relationship is a lesser priority.

I struggled with this for a long time but in recent months have accepted it. I still get angry sometimes a little, but I am mostly fine.

Except that every once in a while she says something explicit about the hierarchy in her relationships and how he's at the top, and I get really upset.

I'm fine with the hierarchy when it's not verbalized. Even when she does stuff with him that I always wanted to do but was refused. I accept that this is the way things are.

But when she verbalizes it, I feel hurt and angry.

What gives?

It's the same hierarchy either way, so I can't figure out why saying it out loud triggers these feelings.

Thoughts?
 
Humans have a unique ability to put parts of our reality on a shelf, so to speak. It's still there. We know it's there. We just don't think about it too much. Occasionally something comes along and knocks it off the shelf and it hits our head. So when she mentions it, you are forced to confront it directly.
 
Hey Vin.

That was my first thought, but I'm not sure if it holds water. I'm not saying it doesn't, but I'm not sure it does. Because I think about the dynamic of these relationships all the time. And I very directly confront myself about them. And I definitely feel like I've come to a place of acceptance.

Her and I talked more tonight, and she assured me that I'm important to her even if I'm a lower priority and that I'm not secondary. This helped a lot. It was soothing to hear that she doesn't think of me as secondary. There's a distinction there between being a lower priority and being secondary that I'm still making sense of in my head, but I think I get it.

There's something deeply upsetting to me about the word "secondary." And I don't know what it is. But that was related to my upset.
 
Her and I talked more tonight, and she assured me that I'm important to her even if I'm a lower priority and that I'm not secondary. This helped a lot. It was soothing to hear that she doesn't think of me as secondary. There's a distinction there between being a lower priority and being secondary that I'm still making sense of in my head, but I think I get it.
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So are you all practicing something like a co-primary open model? Like a 2B in that article? Just that you are no longer the "nesting partner?"

Could taking the time to calibrate language used and agreeing to use those or other words help any? Or reading the article together?

You seem ok participating here. Just that you don't like the sound of "secondary" partner.

Is that it? :confused:

Except that every once in a while she says something explicit about the hierarchy in her relationships and how he's at the top, and I get really upset. I'm fine with the hierarchy when it's not verbalized.
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Or maybe it's listening to her go on and on. Like... she's still in her NRE lalas? If so... Maybe you could tell you you accept that he's the nesting partner, but could she please stop going on about it? Cuz you already know?

Galagirl
 
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Maybe it's a feeling of "I know my place, please don't rub it into my face"? Like, you know she can't be with you always, but while she is with you, you want to feel special to her?

Maybe it's not what she sais, but how she sais it?

Maybe rethinking the meaning of "secondary" could help too?
For inspiration https://www.morethantwo.com/polyforsecondaries.html#bor
 
Tinwen said:
Maybe it's a feeling of "I know my place, please don't rub it into my face"?
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Yea, I would want to know more about the exact context.

Context 1: A smack-down. Manipulative.

Context 2: Boundary reminder.

If one partner starts to voice future "obligations" not consistent with the agreement between partners...

then it is an appropriate time to remind the person, no ill-will involved.

A great big "duh!" to the wonderment of why the word "secondary" bothers you. I'll bet the word "primary" is a pretty cool word, if that were you right? This is not rocket science.

So my empathy for how it feels to be wanting one thing and being thwacked on the nose with another.

I'd want to know why.
 
Hi Arius,

It sounds like you had a talk with your former nesting partner, and smoothed things out a little. Like maybe you will not be so upset if you can just be sure that she won't say the word "secondary?" Being a lower priority is something you can accept, it's being a secondary that gets your nose out of joint, does that sound right?

Keep us posted on how things are going forward. Hopefully the situation has been resolved, but if not, let us know and we will try to help.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Arius said:
Hey Vin.

That was my first thought, but I'm not sure if it holds water. I'm not saying it doesn't, but I'm not sure it does. Because I think about the dynamic of these relationships all the time. And I very directly confront myself about them. And I definitely feel like I've come to a place of acceptance.

Her and I talked more tonight, and she assured me that I'm important to her even if I'm a lower priority and that I'm not secondary. This helped a lot. It was soothing to hear that she doesn't think of me as secondary. There's a distinction there between being a lower priority and being secondary that I'm still making sense of in my head, but I think I get it.

There's something deeply upsetting to me about the word "secondary." And I don't know what it is. But that was related to my upset.
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Ah, but rolling it around in your mind and not directly confronting the other person isn't really directly confronting the problem, is it? I see too often people reacting to what they think their partner is thinking, rather than finding out what they really think.

But then you got some clarification from the source and you feel better.
 
GalaGirl said:
So are you all practicing something like a co-primary open model? Like a 2B in that article? Just that you are no longer the "nesting partner?"

Could taking the time to calibrate language used and agreeing to use those or other words help any? Or reading the article together?

You seem ok participating here. Just that you don't like the sound of "secondary" partner.

Is that it? :confused:

Or maybe it's listening to her go on and on. Like... she's still in her NRE lalas? If so... Maybe you could tell you you accept that he's the nesting partner, but could she please stop going on about it? Cuz you already know?

Galagirl
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Thanks for the handy link and the insightful analysis!

We're relationship anarchists. 2B (co-primary) is the best fit, I suppose. But it's more complicated than that. IN THEORY we're co-primary; but in reality, she lives with him, wears his ring, is planning to marry him, has a committed 24/7 lifestyle bdsm DD/lg dynamic with him, and makes no bones about telling me to my face that he's far and away her top priority.

I think what galls me about this is that her and I have a 7 year history, and he's the fucking new guy (FNG) who came in 2 years ago and immediately took everything away from me. She started sleeping with him and stopped sleeping with me. She started investing energy into THEIR relationship and not ours. And now she lives with him and not me.

He's a nice guy, and I don't hate him or anything. And when I'm thinking clearly I can't even be mad at her (even though I'm seething inside half the time) because it's just a chemistry thing. She can't help wanting him more. It just sucks for me and I don't know how to deal with going from being the most important person in her life, to being the second most important person in her life.

I will ask consider asking her not to throw it in my face. It's a bit touchy because she already feels like she has to walk on eggshells around me and has trouble keeping track of what is and isn't okay to say. The pattern seems obvious to me, but not to her (despite me explaining it clearly several times).




Also, just to clear up some confusion in this thread, I felt a little better after she gave me some reassurance, but the issue is still there, and I still feel angry / upset and still need to work through this.
 
MayDecember said:
Yea, I would want to know more about the exact context.

Context 1: A smack-down. Manipulative.

Context 2: Boundary reminder.

If one partner starts to voice future "obligations" not consistent with the agreement between partners...

then it is an appropriate time to remind the person, no ill-will involved.

A great big "duh!" to the wonderment of why the word "secondary" bothers you. I'll bet the word "primary" is a pretty cool word, if that were you right? This is not rocket science.

So my empathy for how it feels to be wanting one thing and being thwacked on the nose with another.

I'd want to know why.
Click to expand...


It's usually just a thing that comes up organically in conversations. I am her #1 confidante, the person she goes to when she needs to talk about something. And periodically she just says something that lets me know that I'm less important to her than her other partner. I don't think there's any intention behind it; it's just a by-product of a conversation about something else.

For example, here's the context from the most recent incident:

The other day she was weighing the pros and cons of legally marrying him, and I said something like "have you considered the fact that marriage would permanently give rights to him that won't be available to any of your other partners (cough, me)?" And she said "well why should they (meaning me) have access to those rights?" And then I got pissed and had a really hard time listening to her effectively after that.

And yeah, I want a lot more than what I'm getting from this relationship presently, and it is agony. So thanks for the empathy.
 
IN THEORY we're co-primary; but in reality, she lives with him, wears his ring, is planning to marry him, has a committed 24/7 lifestyle bdsm DD/lg dynamic with him, and makes no bones about telling me to my face that he's far and away her top priority.
Click to expand...

So in practice, it is NOT a co-primary model.

Maybe calling it what it actually IS is better.

  • You are in a primary-secondary model, where she keeps TALKING like it is co-primary but behaves otherwise.
    • You don't love her behavior of "say one thing, do another."
  • He's the primary nesting partner.
  • You are her secondary partner who lives elsewhere.
    • You don't love being the secondary partner.
    • You have clocked 2 years like this.
    • You don't love being here still participating like this.

If that is what it is? Then that is what it is. What part(s) are you willing to change?

Then you can assess if you want to (try to adjust to the actual deal you are being offered here) or if (you want to be done in a more clear cut way).

I think what galls me about this is that her and I have a 7 year history, and he's the fucking new guy (FNG) who came in 2 years ago and immediately took everything away from me. She started sleeping with him and stopped sleeping with me. She started investing energy into THEIR relationship and not ours. And now she lives with him and not me.
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You seem more mad at him than her when you call him "the fucking new guy." Do you call her "the fucking hinge?" :confused:

She's the one in charge of where she spends her time. If she's neglected/neglecting this side of the V... well... it's her doing that behavior. If she basically checked out 2 years ago and is basically just phoning it in now? That's what it is. And since it's been 2 years of that? You have to assess how likely that is to change.

It just sucks for me and I don't know how to deal with going from being the most important person in her life, to being the second most important person in her life.
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Well... HOW did you guys break up the old model and then then get back together for this new V? Did you have a voice in this? Were you railroaded or sold one thing but given another? Maybe some of the anger is from that.

Maybe you not have enough time and space in between the break up of one model to the start of the new model so you haven't quite given yourself the closure you need on one before starting the other.

There's a visual aid on this article.

https://www.eoslifework.co.uk/transprac.htm

So maybe it is hard to listen to all her "whee" while you are in a different emotional space. Like... she's on track A of emotional change where it is all "whee!" for her. Where you are on track B of emotional change. Because it's been all "ugh!" for you.

I will ask consider asking her not to throw it in my face. It's a bit touchy because she already feels like she has to walk on eggshells around me and has trouble keeping track of what is and isn't okay to say. The pattern seems obvious to me, but not to her (despite me explaining it clearly several times).
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Could stop explaining so much. Instead, do it once. Then say "Could you repeat back in your own words what I just said so I know you got it how I meant it?"

If she can do that? Then there is no excuse for not getting it. It's just lazy relating and more neglecting after a point. So then you might have to call it a total wash and bow out of all this.

Also, just to clear up some confusion in this thread, I felt a little better after she gave me some reassurance, but the issue is still there, and I still feel angry / upset and still need to work through this.
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Verbal reassurance is talk. If not backed up by actions, after a while that's going to feel flat. Like "all talk, no show."

Maybe it's time to think about healing yourself apart from them rather than in amongst them.

Then come back again later to try participating in the new model from a fresh perspective. Or just let it be done.

I can't imagine you want to be hanging in this weird limbo space for 5, 10, 15, 20 years! It's like the scab never gets to heal because some new thing picks it off again.

2 years is already plenty.

Galagirl
 
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I am her #1 confidante, the person she goes to when she needs to talk about something.
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Why is that still your job? Can't it be his? Or someone else's job?

And periodically she just says something that lets me know that I'm less important to her than her other partner. I don't think there's any intention behind it; it's just a by-product of a conversation about something else.
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That's almost worse than dinging you on PURPOSE. Dinging you thoughtlessly? Maybe that feels like twisting the "neglect knife" in some more and maybe that's part of your "fuzzy anger" that you can't quit pin down yet? :confused:

The other day she was weighing the pros and cons of legally marrying him, and I said something like "have you considered the fact that marriage would permanently give rights to him that won't be available to any of your other partners (cough, me)?" And she said "well why should they (meaning me) have access to those rights?" And then I got pissed and had a really hard time listening to her effectively after that.
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Did you actually cough and then say "like ME" out loud? Or did you leave it "general" like "other partners?"

I can't tell if you expect some mind reader-ing and get mad when she doesn't do it.

And at the same time... is she Asperger's or something that might explain her behavior? Because DUH, you are RIGHT THERE. One of her other partners!

If she chooses to marry her nesting partner, then that changes a lot of things for you. If she doesn't think to make accommodations like putting you on her "visit me in hospital list", he automatically can as spouse/next of kin. But you might not. Stuff like that. So where's the "co-primary" in all that?

To me it goes back to what I said before. I rather be dinged on purpose. At least them I'm being considered. Albeit in a not so hot way.

To ding me over and over and over thoughtlessly is almost worse. Like I'm invisible or disposable and not worthy of consideration at all.

Both stink, but the thoughtless way is just ugh.

I'm sorry you struggle with this. :(

Galagirl
 
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Hi Arius,

I don't mean to state the obvious, but it seems to me that you are getting shafted. She has taken everything from your relationship that used to mean a lot to you, and has given it to him. And I'm sure he is thoroughly enjoying all of that, but let me ask you ... Do you think/feel that you deserve more than what you're getting? What would you say to her if you knew you could get her to listen? Would you convey to her the pain that she (and the new guy) are putting you through? What did you do to deserve this?

In my opinion, she's lucky to have you. Most guys would have dropped her in a hot minute by now. How do you feel, knowing you're by far the lesser priority? She does still want you around, doesn't she? or does she? :(

I'm at a loss, to know how one would adjust to something like this. :mad:
With sympathy,
Kevin T.
 
To be even clearer... You said she stopped "sleeping with you," and started "sleeping with him, and living with him." And you are her "#1 confidante."

If by "sleeping together," you mean SEX, as people often do, and all you get is being there for her, listening to her, supporting her, as she spills her guts, talks about how great "fucking new guy" is, talks about how fantastic her sexy DD/lg thingy is, plans her marriage while admiring her ring, I'm sorry to say this, buddy, but you've been friend-zoned, big time.
 
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