Difficult Situation, Long Story (aren't they always)

[Rennara]

I am in a committed relationship with my partner, and when we began the relationship we'd both been burned by previous open relationships so agreed to start things monogamously with the option to discuss opening up later on. We've been in a relationship for 5 years now and just last year I discovered (quite unexpectedly) that there were very strong mutual feelings of romantic love between my best friend J and I, who have known each other for 10 years and who is also in a committed relationship (and had not been looking for a second relations ship although his partner was).

My partner overheard us during a facetime discussion trying to figure out how (and when) to break the news of our feelings and desire to pursue them to our SOs shortly after discovering those feelings. He thought I had been talking about something else with J and asked me about it, so I took the opportunity to tell him the truth about the situation. There never really is a "best time" after all and I wouldn't lie to him. He took things badly and now sees the situation as my having had an emotional affair behind his back regardless of the intention not to move things forward without everyone's knowledge or consent (only to acknowledge to one another that the feelings were there and what they were), because I didn't tell him about my feelings immediately (though there was one other person's feelings and several circumstances that caused the delay, though I won't go into those here as they are not precisely relevant). He made it very clear that there is not consent to have a secondary relationship and has very strong feelings of jealousy, etc.

He has since stated that he does not feel that he is poly, but understands that I am and we are currently seeking a professional counselor to help us address this issue.

That aside, I am still in love with J and he very much so with me, the connection runs very deep. We have been putting a lot of effort into keeping things decidedly platonic and making sure we are considering our SOs and each-other's SOs comfort as much as is possible, but the hurt of not being able to be together romantically is very present and exacerbated by a lack of even a platonic level of physical affection due to currently living on different continents.

I don't always feel that I can talk to my partner about this hurt because of how upset and jealous it makes him (re; his feelings of having been cheated on) and my heightened levels of anxiety due to having to deal with my own hurts and his simultaneously. I do talk to J about those feelings from time to time, but he is also apart from his partner and I sometimes feel guilty that I might be taking his energy and attention away from his relationship (despite being told I am not, as he can occasionally be a bit too forgiving of my faults).

I have so many question and so few people to talk about them to. Is there a way to fall out of love with someone while retaining a treasured friendship? Is there a better way to be able to share my feelings openly with a partner who feels as though I've injured them? Is there a way to deal with this hurt on my own? How does one deal with having a partner who does not feel that they are poly? I know every situation is dependent upon the individuals, but I don't have much of a foundation to stand on and I need to see the situation from outside it.

 

[anamikanon]

Is there a way to fall out of love with someone while retaining a treasured friendship?

Distance always helps. The less you think of them, the less you feel love (or anything, fewer triggers) for them and presence is one major trigger. If that is not possible, at least avoiding one on one situations as far as possible for a while till you believe you can do it without upsetting your partner.

Is there a better way to be able to share my feelings openly with a partner who feels as though I've injured them?

This is difficult. What you are in essence saying is that he doesn't trust you. This is a bigger problem than what he believes the situation is, if he believes you capable of going behind his back and violating promises between the two of you. In your place, I'd simply state that I wasn't doing the things he was accusing me of, and if he didn't trust me, what was the point.

The other side of this seems to be that you now do seem to be doing what he accused you of when he overheard and misunderstood you - an emotional affair, with the two of you (you and J) choosing to interpret it as platonic meaning even when you are emotionally involved and your husband did NAIL the "emotional affair", and actively discussing managing your relationship with each other, even though you are considering your SOs and continuing to conceal it from them. This is something between you and your conscience, but it will not invite trust, which already stands broken. In my book, it stands as cheating.

You seem to be seeing your disclosure to your husband as some kind of "honesty badge" that says that if you've told the husband, you aren't going behind his back if you continue engaging in the name of keeping it platonic, quite ignoring the screaming refusal of consent for poly. The amorous in poly refers to love, not sex, though sex is often involved.

I don't see how you could reasonably expect your husband to understand your hurt in this situation. "I'm continuing my emotional affair, without your consent, but please understand that I am hurt because I can't have sex?"

Is there a way to deal with this hurt on my own?

I'd suggest interact here often. Lots of people here understand polyamory and you'll find most of them are very supportive and insightful. Besides, it will give you both distance and clarity when you have to describe things clearly for people who aren't present there in order to share what you are going through. Also I think anonymity helps. We can often say a lot of things that make us vulnerable - and that is usually where the worst hurt resides - as strangers and to strangers than we can to people who know us.

Find things that interest you. Remain busy. That does help with hurt.

How does one deal with having a partner who does not feel that they are poly?

By accepting them as they are, just as we want acceptance for us from our partners. Unless you are saying he can't accept you being poly in spite of poly being understood to be an eventual event while coming together as initially monogamous - then fundamental mismatch. Unless you can commit to remaining monogamous, you will be unhappy here.

I know every situation is dependent upon the individuals, but I don't have much of a foundation to stand on and I need to see the situation from outside it.

You'll never see it from outside. You're ground zero. But you will get help and support in coping and finding a way through here (doesn't sound like you have access to people you trust with something like this where you live).

 

[Magdlyn]

Only you can decide if being polyamorous is something you must have in your life.

If you want to talk less, or not at all, to your longtime friend who has now become a romantic interest, to let the new romantic feelings fade, so you can keep your boyfriend, that is up to you.

How important are the new romantic feelings? Can you live without them, and live without Old Friend? Or not? Will you deeply resent your bf if you dump Old Friend for his sake and the sake of "saving" your current relationship?

I see you originally said you and your bf agreed to renegotiate opening the relationship. And now you (singular) want to renegotiate, and he refuses. Oops! Is that just a wee bit hypocritical?

 

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you struggle.

when we began the relationship we'd both been burned by previous open relationships so agreed to start things monogamously with the option to discuss opening up later on.

Ok. That is the agreement.

My partner overheard us during a facetime discussion trying to figure out how (and when) to break the news of our feelings and desire to pursue them to our SOs shortly after discovering those feelings.

I don't see anything in the agreement that discusses HOW and WHEN to disclose that you wanted to bring up the option. So you basically had to wing it.

He took things badly and now sees the situation as my having had an emotional affair behind his back regardless of the intention not to move things forward without everyone's knowledge or consent

So rather than see that the initial agreements were missing components (HOW and WHEN to bring up the news), so you had to wing it, and forgive you if you winging it was a bit clumsy....

He's choosing to take this as a personal strike against him and view this an emotional affair. Like you intentionally decided to hurt him.

Were there talks about emotional affairs? Or did he assume you just define "emotional affair" the same as him? Is it because your discovered your crush feelings a year ago but didn't bring it up til now that he's mad?

To me you sound like you noticed feelings developing and you wanted to raise the flag to obtain consent BEFORE it turned into something like "actively dating." Trying NOT to hurt him.

But waiting a year... that might be upsetting him that you weren't more forthcoming sooner.

On the flip side... I'm not seeing any agreements that were broken since the agreements do not mention anything about HOW/WHEN to disclose. Maybe you needed that year to become more certain about your feelings for the friend and to know it wasn't some passing crush thing.

Basically, I could see both sides. Where he might feel it was emotional affair/cheating. And you might feel otherwise. Rather than keep it in the stuck blaming each other, could call it lesson learned -- the agreement failed to state how/when to disclose. And you are BOTH responsible for how you make your agreements.

Then move it forward to determine next steps.

Is there a way to fall out of love with someone while retaining a treasured friendship?

WHO are you talking about here? The BF who thinks you had an emotional affair? Or the long distance friend you have a crush on?

Usually lessening contact helps fade feelings. That's how I fall out of love with someone.

"Retaining friendship" -- that comes later after the first letting go chunk. Trying to do both at the same time doesn't work for me. I need the definite closure of "this part had ended" which usually includes a time of not talking to each other.

Then I can do "this new thing has begun" later when I do get back in contact.

Is there a better way to be able to share my feelings openly with a partner who feels as though I've injured them?

All you can do is be honest and up front. That is you broadcasting the message.

How he LISTENS to the message? That's up to him. If he chooses to do defensive listening and takes things with negative intent? There isn't much you can do other than ask him to please stop doing that. Then see if he does or doesn't. And if he doesn't? Decide if you want to stick around when all he does it take things personally and negatively. Maybe you don't want to be walking around on eggshells all the time.

The hurt of not being able to be together romantically is very present and exacerbated by a lack of even a platonic level of physical affection due to currently living on different continents.

I don't always feel that I can talk to my partner about this hurt because of how upset and jealous it makes him

Is there a way to deal with this hurt on my own?

Are you shrinking yourself unduly just to keep going with this BF? Are you getting to be your authentic self in this relationship? Does BF (presumably one of the closest people to you) create safe emotional space for you where you can share what's on your mind/heart freely? Or not so much? (Is that why you waited so long to disclose? He has a cow any time you bring anything up like this?)

That's something only you can determine.

I think you just have to pick your hard:

• Could stop dating the BF. Because the agreements didn't hold water -- he's not wanting to Open even though he said it was on the table.
  
• Could keep dating the BF with a new understanding. The new agreement is "Closed" -- open is NOT on the table any more.
  
• Could keep dating the BF with a new understanding. The agreement was incomplete -- refine the agreement to include missing components for HOW and WHEN to bring up the "negotiate for Open" and call it lesson learned. Make better agreements in future.
  
• Could tell the LDR friend you have to break up with him even though things barely got started because it's too much at this time. Like lay down something "clear cut" so you can have some closure about it rather than "up in the air" feelings.
  
• Could start dating the LDR friend you crush on.
  
• Could talk to someone else. A trusted friend, a counselor.
  
• Something else I cannot think of.
  
• Mix and match the above.

What hurt are you trying to deal with that is the biggest hurt? Maybe that gives you clues as to which to solve so you feel better at least, even if not ALL the hurt is gone.

How does one deal with having a partner who does not feel that they are poly?

You either choose to keep on dating them...

• With new understanding that this is a Closed model. Open really isn't on the table. (They are not poly. They want to love 1 sweetie in a closed monogamous model.)
  
• With new understanding that your previous agreement was missing parts and you take the time to clarify all that so Open is on the table along with HOW/WHEN to renegotiate for Open so you don't ding selves like this again. (They are not poly. They want to love 1 sweetie. But are ok participating in a poly network even though they don't want other partners themselves. )

Or you choose to stop dating partner.

Maybe if he's willing to talk about your poly thoughts and feelings -- that Open enough for you. And you could be willing to not see other people and that's Closed enough for him.

But if this is a situation where he doesn't want to know about that part of you, wants to only love a "sanitized" version of you, I don't see what you get out of it. You aren't being loved for ALL of you.

And maybe you don't want to be Closed.

I think you have to do some soul searching and determine what it is you want.

Galagirl

 

[anamikanon]

I see you originally said you and your bf agreed to renegotiate opening the relationship. And now you (singular) want to renegotiate, and he refuses. Oops! Is that just a wee bit hypocritical?

This had been my first reaction. On the other hand, the discussion should have happened before getting involved with someone and being found out. From the husband's end, she did go ahead without checking with him even, without discussing. And he caught her red handed. He had agreed to a discussion to opening it, there is no time period or guarantee involved. They were monogamous. OP initiated a relationship without the discussion - these are facts that can't be ignored in assessing whether he is hypocritical.

Would many of us - even those openly poly accept finding our partner already in a relationship we didn't know about with someone and wondering how to tell us? I know I wouldn't. To me it would be cheating. Perhaps the DADT types?

 

[Magdlyn]

This had been my first reaction. On the other hand, the discussion should have happened before getting involved with someone and being found out. From the husband's end, she did go ahead without checking with him even, without discussing. And he caught her red handed. He had agreed to a discussion to opening it, there is no time period or guarantee involved. They were monogamous. OP initiated a relationship without the discussion - these are facts that can't be ignored in assessing whether he is hypocritical.

Would many of us - even those openly poly accept finding our partner already in a relationship we didn't know about with someone and wondering how to tell us? I know I wouldn't. To me it would be cheating. Perhaps the DADT types?

I have a sensitive "cheating" radar and I don't see this as cheating. I, personally, have never fallen in love with a friend. I've had a few crushes, that I didn't disclose (when I was living mono with my ex h) to either my crush or my ex h.

I know the feelings can sort of sneak up on you. I think the only mistake was telling the crush about the feelings before telling her partner what was happening.

But that is a newbie mistake and, i hope, forgivable, seeing as they had an agreement to Open at some point in the future.

 

[anamikanon]

I get what you are saying. But I get the husband's perspective as well. They had explicitly agreed to a monogamous relationship with an option to discuss going poly in the future. It doesn't sound like the agreement was that they would definitely be going poly or when. To discover a relationship that she is trying to break to him pretty much directly violates that, no?

The husband refused, yes, but I don't know how this is hypocrisy - my point. He pretty much caught a situation his monogamous partner was in and when he confronted was told about the relationship - where was any discussion to go poly at all? He invoked the original agreement that was violated.

Feelings can sneak up on anyone, but relationships and plans have to be made and were made without discussing going poly as agreed, no? Even OP doesn't appear to have been saying that she'd have to discuss it with her partner to see if it were possible. They were discussing how to tell him - like his consent was a given - where is the "discuss" - as agreed - in this?

The discussion still hasn't reached an agreement, the husband's status currently seems to be a "hell no", but they are continuing discussions regardless pretending platonic means they arent really cheating. I fail to see how this isn't cheating and merely a matter of who got told first. The plans for a relationship as well as continued private interactions including discussions on how to manage spouses are all deliberate and ongoing.

[Apologies if I sound exacting on this. I have some very strong feelings about communicating and trust and find myself seeing the husband as being blindsided with fait acompli poly]

 

[Magdlyn]

Your POV is valid, anamikanon. I don't know why I am feeling so soft-hearted about this....

Rennara said unnamed circumstances didn't allow her to tell her partner the second she realised her feelings for her friend went from platonic to romantic.

I am glad she is seeking counseling with her long time partner. That should help sort things out. Internet advice can only go so far.

 

[anamikanon]

A lot of pain could have been spared for everyone if the discussion to go poly had happened when you realized your feelings for J - or at the very least before you told J about them. And if that discussion had been about your relationship with your partner and opening it, as opposed to "I am already in love with someone, I'd like to remind you we'd agreed to discuss..."

In my view, if your husband is jealous of an emotional relationship between the two of you, and you persist with it, there isn't much counselling can do to help (I have counselled people and still sometimes do - there is no magic wand - at best you will get help seeing things clearly and reaching conclusions functionally). Counselling can help cope with hurt that has passed, not hurt that continues after knowing that the action causes hurt. Counselling in the face of actions that knowingly hurt will get him the advice to distance himself from what he cannot prevent - your "emotional affair" as he calls it - which doesn't sound like a direction you desire. J is on another continent and married in any case.

I think it is important to see that polyamory is about having multiple loves which can be platonic or sexual. Your friendship with J is older than your relationship with your partner. It is natural for him to feel insecure given the long concealment of its status upgrade from him. You knew you loved him for a year. You have already been in discussion of your feelings and are in regular contact and still in love. "not being in a relationship" is little more than a technicality over what you choose to call it. A year seems to be an awful lot of time to have managed not to tell something this important to your partner. That it came after being confronted makes your intent to discuss with husband sound even more dubious, even if it were true.

I don't know and cannot say if your husband will ever agree to your relationship with J, but unless you are prepared to leave him to pursue J, your continued engagement with J is only going to keep causing hurt to all - you because your desire to be together is frustrated and your husband, because he feels like promises made to him don't matter and hurt caused to him also doesn't matter. You will have to fix that and give him the honesty and consideration due in a relationship before you can expect him to heal from the hurt it caused him enough to think about poly again - if ever. You say you both came together "burned" by poly. While you went through a process getting interested in it again, he got burned a second time by the result.

 

[Magdlyn]

We don't know if Renarra fell in love an entire year ago. She said, "last year," which could be December, for all we know.

And there were reasons she didn't disclose... sometimes a spouse has had a parent or sibling die, say, and is grieving. That is not the time to pile on another problem.

I'd bet also she was trying to deny the strengthening of her feelings for the friend for a while before she admitted it to herself, much less to others.

I'd like to take it a little easier on her until we know more.

 

[anamikanon]

He thought I had been talking about something else with J and asked me about it, so I took the opportunity to tell him the truth about the situation. There never really is a "best time" after all and I wouldn't lie to him.

This was a poor choice. If you had agreed to discuss before opening up again, you should have discussed that first before presenting a new partner - as you had agreed to.

He took things badly and now sees the situation as my having had an emotional affair behind his back

Can you deny it? Your marriage was not open when you admitted your feelings to J.

regardless of the intention not to move things forward without everyone's knowledge or consent (only to acknowledge to one another that the feelings were there and what they were)

The intention may have been claimed, but in effect what you did was began negotiating your new relationship and building on it, including how to pursue it and handle it with SOs before telling your existing partner. While you seem to be defining a relationship as merely sexual, where you don't see your increasing and continuing involvement with J as pursuing it, the fact is that romantic relationships begin with declarations of love and proceed with continued engagement in various ways, including long-distance conversation. If you didn't have a relationship with J, there would be nothing to get over, so to say. This is important for you to see, if you want to fix things with your existing partner. This is his hurt. You already had a relationship going before he was told.

because I didn't tell him about my feelings immediately (though there was one other person's feelings and several circumstances that caused the delay, though I won't go into those here as they are not precisely relevant).

You could have held off getting involved with J if the circumstances were not suitable to being honest with your partner and being on the same page before involving a new partner. He'd been your friend for 10 years. It wasn't like you'd lose him.

He made it very clear that there is not consent to have a secondary relationship and has very strong feelings of jealousy, etc.

You both came together burned by open relationships. Now you've sprung this on him. In his place, would you feel that it was good for you?

He has since stated that he does not feel that he is poly, but understands that I am and we are currently seeking a professional counselor to help us address this issue.

This actually indicates that he is not averse to the idea of you being poly. Or there would be clarity and no need for counselling. You'd have an ultimatum in hand. Mono or else. This indicates a lot depends on how you handle it. Can you win back trust? If he believes a new relationship means he will lose your honesty, he is not going to take it well in the future either. Can you be honest, even if difficult?

In your place, I would seriously recommend focusing on the relationship between the two of you and then as much discussion as needed to resolve your differences on opening the marriage, before J is even a point of discussion. Lining up a new partner before agreement to opening basically means you are taking him for granted - OR - that you don't mind leading J on, only to ditch him if you can't get your partner to agree. Or worse, an awful limbo of hurt and suspicion for your husband and frustration for you and not knowing where he stands for J.

That aside, I am still in love with J and he very much so with me, the connection runs very deep. We have been putting a lot of effort into keeping things decidedly platonic and making sure we are considering our SOs and each-other's SOs comfort as much as is possible, but the hurt of not being able to be together romantically is very present and exacerbated by a lack of even a platonic level of physical affection due to currently living on different continents.

As long as you interact with J, that hurt will never resolve, because you will essentially be continuing your emotional and romantic involvement. This also betrays your agreement with your husband, because you still haven't had that discussion and agreement on going poly. In my view, nothing good can come out of continued communication with J till the situation with you and your partner is resolved. Either as an agreement to open or not, or as separation.

I don't always feel that I can talk to my partner about this hurt because of how upset and jealous it makes him (re; his feelings of having been cheated on) and my heightened levels of anxiety due to having to deal with my own hurts and his simultaneously.

Getting over being cheated is very very difficult. You are hurting over being unable to expand a long-distance relationship that had just begun. He is hurting over a 5 year established relationship based on an explicit agreement being betrayed. What are you doing to support him with the hurt you caused him?

In my view, the obvious thing here is to stop contact with J till the situation resolves, so you can be completely honest with your partner about that - which will be reassuring for him and will help you hurt less too if you aren't used to him being part of your routine any more and give you some space to manage your relationship with your partner. If keeping J out of this crisis is not possible, you should be mentally prepared to give up this relationship in order to pursue J - if it comes to that.

I do talk to J about those feelings from time to time, but he is also apart from his partner and I sometimes feel guilty that I might be taking his energy and attention away from his relationship (despite being told I am not, as he can occasionally be a bit too forgiving of my faults).

The more you talk to J about it, the more you will keep them alive, the longer you will hurt, the more you will keep J dangling, the less your partner will trust you. There is no good I see coming out of this till you can do it with a clear conscience (not just on romance, but also on hurting your partner KNOWN to be hurt and jealous by this).

It is one of those situations where we are led by NRE into doing foolish things that wish away realities or avoid potential deterrents. The only answer to things done wrong is doing them meticulously right. For you, this would mean discussing with your partner about opening your marriage BEFORE involvement with a new partner.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Rennara,

I sort of get the impression that you and your partner would need a mono/poly relationship in order to stay together. You'll probably be unhappy unless you can live polyamorously, and he'll probably always be monogamous. What you need is his consent for you to be polyamorous while he is monogamous. There's some hope that a counselor can bring that up as a possibility. It depends on what's possible in your own minds.

Regards,
Kevin T.

 

[breathemusic]

I also don't see this as an affair, or that OP even had another relationship. Realizing that you've developed feelings for someone is not the same thing as starting a relationship with someone. Hell, even admitting to that person that you have feelings for them does not constitute starting a relationship. All it means is that you suddenly realized "oh crap, I don't just see this person as a friend anymore, I have legit feels... now what do I do?"

While I agree that it probably would have been better to talk to b/f first before talking to the friend, I don't see that as being a massive issue, since OP might have thought "well, if my friend doesn't feel the same way then it's a moot point and I'll have to figure out how to just manage my feelings anyway, so why cause drama with b/f?" Again, not saying that this is the ideal option, but I guess I just don't see this as having an emotional affair unless you both admitted having feelings for each other and then not only kept it quiet for a long time, but actually CHANGED your behavior because of the revelations. If you both realized you had feelings but said "hey, we're not going to do anything different but just maintain our friendly status quo until we hash this out with other people and figure out what the hell is going on" then I wouldn't consider that cheating. If it was, then every time someone had a crush on someone that they continued to interact with on any social level would be emotionally cheating!

I can understand that the way b/f found out was a huge shock and very uncomfortable and he felt blindsided... but once the initial shock wears off... I think his reaction of claiming that OP was having an emotional affair is probably overboard.