Does “just tell me before it happens” ever make sense?

A

Albert Ross

Well-known member
I’m just starting to practice polyamory, for context in case you haven’t been following my riveting saga (hard as that is to imagine 😜). But I read a lot of threads where people create some sort of agreement about being informed about their partners’ other relationships, like this:
  • “Tell me before you have sex with them.”
  • “Tell me before you spend the night.”
  • “Tell me before it escalates from casual sex to dating.”
And the way a lot of these stories go is, the thing you were supposed to be informed about happens, but your partner doesn’t inform you
  • Until the next day.
  • Until the next month.
  • Until you ask them point-blank.
And now you feel betrayed, because they broke an agreement, and/or withheld requested information.

The apparent commonality of this outcome leaves me wondering:

What’s the point of agreements like this? That is, why request them in the first place? And, are they actually an effective way to achieve that goal?

My theory is that “just tell me before it happens” agreements are, like many of the other agreements/requests/demands people make when pursuing open relationships, an attempt to regain a feeling of control over a situation you really can’t control.

If your partner is deepening their relationship with someone else, seems natural to experience anxiety. Maybe the new relationship will pull them away from their relationship with you... and there’s nothing you can do about it.

So, “just let me know before it happens,” so I can mentally grit my teeth and emotionally clench my fists, and feel more prepared for what the outcome might be.

But there are obvious and common reasons your partner might break that agreement, here are two off the top of my head:
  • They don’t really want the constraint in the first place.
  • Sometimes (often) our feelings change faster than we realize / communicate. Like, it’s not unbelievable that if your partner is having a hot night with their date they might have sex for four hours and then fall asleep in each other’s arms, and yes, they DID agree to stop and text you before sleeping over, but... they’re only human.
Look, I’m not trying to give people a pass to break agreements. What I’m questioning is the wisdom of making agreements like this in the first place. Agreements that are mostly there to stick a finger in the dam of the essential uncertainty of human relationships. Agreements that are pretty easy to break.

And the breaking of which might cause more damage than if you’d never made the agreement in the first place, and instead discussed, sat with, and processed your understandable anxiety.

But I haven’t been in this situation myself, not yet. I’d like to hear the perspectives of people who have!
 
Yes. I think a lot of us agree. I think we're we've disagreed in the past is that I think it's quite normal that someone only figures this to be a problem when they see the practicalities of why it doesn't work. So they might make such an agreement and then break it because they realise it just isn't feasible to have this rule in place.

I kind of see that as a amateur error than the character flaw of either individual.

Generally, people ask for it because they want to reserve the right to say no.
 
Having lived through such agreements (which seemed to have stemmed from the collective wisdom at the time), and the resulting disagreements, I'd say there's no wisdom at all in them. Adam and I basically have no agreements anymore other than, "let me know when it's getting serious" - and the last time I did that was about 4 years ago when Puck and I got serious. Adam isn't currently interested in dating, he may meet someone interesting again, or may not, I leave his love life up to him. Puck and I just have the agreement to have the best possible knowledge of our own sexual health before we see each other, because no way in hell we're using condoms. He'll generally tell me when he's had a hook up outside of the polycule sometime after the fact, but it's not mandatory, and I am more likely to tell him if I go on a date, or fuck someone I fancy, but that's just because he's got a different kind of compersion than Adam. (When I told Adam I'd met Puck and things had gotten serious, his reply was "oh about time" [that I found someone compatible].)

So, what was the point of my and Adam's agreements in the first place...well, we seemed to think that was the done thing. Honesty, communication and all of that which goes with ethical non-monogamy/polyamory. But if we could have a do-over, I'd not bother with any of it. I'd just say, "I consent to practice polyamory with a large dollop of RA, and as such, you do you, I'll do me, and we'll just be courteous of each other and mindful of health concerns. If you're going out with someone, I'll simply assume sex is on the table." We basically tell each other when we know we're going out and about when we'll be back by, but that's the same if we're going anywhere so the other person doesn't come home to an unexpected empty house. That's just part of the courtesy. The was one time when Adam said he'd be home by 10 (and would have genuinely believed it at the time) but rolled in about 12:30. I was just terrified that he'd put the car in a ditch somewhere on the hour's drive home. Of course he hadn't, but after that, we basically went to the, "I'll see you tomorrow" default. One time, I made a bit of an attempt to say, "this might end up being the third date" with a guy I'd been seeing, and Adam replied, "oh, I assumed that had already happened." I didn't bother telling him ever again when I was likely going to have sex with someone new. I've had a couple of one night stands that I haven't even bothered mentioning since our agreement is now, "let me know when it's getting serious." Oh, and that getting serious thing is so the other will know who to contact in case the other person can't. Adam wouldn't hesitate to message Puck if I landed in hospital and couldn't tell him myself.

Fewer "agreements" = greater autonomy and that's the way I and my polycule choose to practice polyamory, now "we're wise" LOL.
 
To give the other side, it does work for some people because they don't go from platonic to sexual in a few moments. It's something that builds.

What I would argue, however, is that those same people often develop romantic intimacy "without permission" or "without giving a head's up" because that's what prompts them to then share that they desire sex/commitment.

You could feasibly get into a debate where you ask how long they were having those moments before they shared. What words were exchanged? Was it along the lines of an "emotional affair"?

But what I've found is that the people who this works for aren't all that bothered about that part. They want to know before anything concrete like sex happens. Or a formal date
Or an agreement that you are partners. They're realistic about the fact that there will be some blurry areas before their partner has soemthing tangible to share.

In many ways, they aren't that different to most poly people except they tend to have less casual sex outside of a regular/committed partner/relationship
 
When you say “just tell me before it happens” what is "it" in that sentence? Because to me, "It" means "you sharing sex with me again." That's when I care. I don't care if you share sex with other people. It's polyamory-- I assume you probably share dates, romance, sex and more with your other partners. Where is the surprise?

I want to know before you share sex again with ME if things have changed. Were there new people, changes in risk profile, were safer sex practices used? How would this affect me and MY sex health if I shared sex with you again?

With that view in mind:

  • “Tell me before you have sex with them.” If you want to share you are getting serious or might become lovers with X, that's fine. But I don't NEED to know before you share sex with them. I need to know before you share sex again with ME if there's sex health news/changes so I can give informed consent to sharing sex with you again.

  • “Tell me before you spend the night.” That depends. How entangled are we? Not much? Then I don't care. Do what you want. Very entangled? We are nesting? Then I care. I don't want to worry if you are gone/missing, so please tell me if you have plans. However, do not dump your chores on me from the sky. Take care of your home things before taking off. Definitely do not give ME extra chores, like packing in a hurry and dumping all the laundry out in the living room for me to tidy up. WTH?

  • “Tell me before it escalates from casual sex to dating.” I don't care what kind of relationship you are having -- casual sex or otherwise, doing kink or not. That's all your and X's business. I just want to know the basics for my sex health management.
With these:
  • Until the next day
  • Until the next month
  • Until you ask them point-blank
It does not really apply, or, it depends.

Maybe I see you a lot, like we're nesting and have lots of entanglements, or I only see you once a year and we have fewer entanglements, or maybe it's in somewhere in between... tell me before you and I share sex again, which could be the next day, the next month, the next year. I frame it that way, because that's when it's gonna matter to me.

I think you are responsible for asking me things too, if you care about your sexual health. But whether you do ask or tell, I will be doing so, because I have to manage my health.

And now you feel betrayed, because they broke an agreement, and/or withheld requested information.
Click to expand...

No, I will not. I didn't make any agreements to leave my health in YOUR hands, where I rely on you to tell me things, because my sex health is my responsibility and I was already doing the asking/looking out for it. You are free to be spontaneous. Share sex how you want. But later if I outright ask you and YOU LIE TO ME? I'm going to be pissed. I will go get a check-up and labs done. And depending on the circumstances, I might dump you.

- Some agreements might sound good "on paper," but then, "out in the field" are not practical, or turn out to need some tweaks.
- Some work with some personalities and others do not.
- Some are okay for a time but get outgrown over time or because circumstances change. Or they were temporary agreements in the first place.
- Some agreements are just plain stupid, create problems and it would be better just not to have them in the first place.
- Some agreements are plain stupid, but won't hurt anything, so I agree to them. For example, DH says the tag on the comforter HAS to be at the bottom of the bed so it doesn't tickle his face. I offered to cut it off, but he said no. He wants the tag, just not in his face. I don't get it, but whatevs. I just agree the tag goes on the bottom of the bed then. We put it down there when making the bed. *shrug*

I know I'm weird about my coffee so... fair enough. He has this weird thing about the tag.

What’s the point of agreements like this? That is, why request them in the first place? And, are they actually an effective way to achieve that goal?
Click to expand...

I think you answered yourself there. If you are making agreements with someone, you sort that kind of thing out WITH THEM, and periodically review to see if they still work as is, apply, or need updates.

If someone asks you to consider doing X, and you don't want any, are not interested, don't want to, you say, "No, thanks. I do not agree. I will not be doing that." And that is that. There will be no shared agreement on that.

Galagirl
 
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I guess it would depend on the motive for the agreement. My needs have changed over time and the motivation for me is connection, security, and intimacy. In the beginning, Being completely transparent kept me from being in my head about what my partner might be hiding. It made me feel super comfortable and reduced any feelings of jealousy significantly. I like knowing if they met someone new or is chatting with someone that they are excited for. I like to know when their relationship becomes sexual as a milestone (all partners) and to check in before we have sex (with the partner that I don’t use condoms with) to see if we need to use condoms. I have a boundary that I won’t have condom free sex with partners who don’t use condoms with others. They are free to choose how they want to do things with others but if they choose to not use condoms, didn’t for some reason, or the condoms broke, then I need to know that.

I realized very quickly that notice before was not realistic in many situations. Just because I move a bit slower and would have knowledge beforehand doesn’t mean my partners are the same way. Now I’m good as long as we discuss it before we have sex (with condomless partner).

I learned when I became poly that my insecurity in relationships was not about the fear of my partner having sex with others, it was about the dishonesty that came with it. The more open and transparent my partners are, the more connected, secure and even loved I feel. It’s not about control at all. The only agreements we have are transparency and that one condom boundary. We are autonomous people.
 
Hello Albert Ross,

It has occurred to me, that notifying your spouse/primary partner that sex with your other partner is about to take place, might very well kill the mood. So even if you don't break your promise to give that advance notice, the agreement to do so has already caused a problem.

It just worsens the situation if this notification is so that your primary could say, "Could you not have that sex right now? I'm in a bit of an emotional state." And thus veto the sex. So now you are contacting your primary, not only to inform them, but to get their permission.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
Thanks for your responses, all! From the opinions and experiences of those who've been at polyamory a while, it sounds like my assumptions are broadly correct: that these agreements come from a desire to maintain a sense of control (or actual attempts at control, by objecting to the proposed behaviour), and polyamorous relationships probably work out better when all parties recognize each other's autonomy / chill out a bit. 😉
 
GalaGirl said:
When you say “just tell me before it happens” what is "it" in that sentence? Because to me, "It" means "you sharing sex with me again." That's when I care. I don't care if you share sex with other people. It's polyamory-- I assume you probably share dates, romance, sex and more with your other partners. Where is the surprise?

I want to know before you share sex again with ME if things have changed. Were there new people, changes in risk profile, were safer sex practices used? How would this affect me and MY sex health if I shared sex with you again?

With that view in mind:

  • “Tell me before you have sex with them.” If you want to share you are getting serious or might become lovers with X, that's fine. But I don't NEED to know before you share sex with them. I need to know before you share sex again with ME if there's sex health news/changes so I can give informed consent to sharing sex with you again.

  • “Tell me before you spend the night.” That depends. How entangled are we? Not much? Then I don't care. Do what you want. Very entangled? We are nesting? Then I care. I don't want to worry if you are gone/missing, so please tell me if you have plans. However, do not dump your chores on me from the sky. Take care of your home things before taking off. Definitely do not give ME extra chores, like packing in a hurry and dumping all the laundry out in the living room for me to tidy up. WTH?

  • “Tell me before it escalates from casual sex to dating.” I don't care what kind of relationship you are having -- casual sex or otherwise, doing kink or not. That's all your and X's business. I just want to know the basics for my sex health management.
With these:
  • Until the next day
  • Until the next month
  • Until you ask them point-blank
It does not really apply, or, it depends.

Maybe I see you a lot, like we're nesting and have lots of entanglements, or I only see you once a year and we have fewer entanglements, or maybe it's in somewhere in between... tell me before you and I share sex again, which could be the next day, the next month, the next year. I frame it that way, because that's when it's gonna matter to me.

I think you are responsible for asking me things too, if you care about your sexual health. But whether you do ask or tell, I will be doing so, because I have to manage my health.



No, I will not. I didn't make any agreements to leave my health in YOUR hands, where I rely on you to tell me things, because my sex health is my responsibility and I was already doing the asking/looking out for it. You are free to be spontaneous. Share sex how you want. But later if I outright ask you and YOU LIE TO ME? I'm going to be pissed. I will go get a check-up and labs done. And depending on the circumstances, I might dump you.

- Some agreements might sound good "on paper," but then, "out in the field" are not practical, or turn out to need some tweaks.
- Some work with some personalities and others do not.
- Some are okay for a time but get outgrown over time or because circumstances change. Or they were temporary agreements in the first place.
- Some agreements are just plain stupid, create problems and it would be better just not to have them in the first place.
- Some agreements are plain stupid, but won't hurt anything, so I agree to them. For example, DH says the tag on the comforter HAS to be at the bottom of the bed so it doesn't tickle his face. I offered to cut it off, but he said no. He wants the tag, just not in his face. I don't get it, but whatevs. I just agree the tag goes on the bottom of the bed then. We put it down there when making the bed. *shrug*

I know I'm weird about my coffee so... fair enough. He has this weird thing about the tag.



I think you answered yourself there. If you are making agreements with someone, you sort that kind of thing out WITH THEM, and periodically review to see if they still work as is, apply, or need updates.

If someone asks you to consider doing X, and you don't want any, are not interested, don't want to, you say, "No, thanks. I do not agree. I will not be doing that." And that is that. There will be no shared agreement on that.

Galagirl
Click to expand...
I understand that's how you mean it, but it goes without saying that most people who instill that rule mean: "Tell me before you have sex with someone else."
 
I'd still ask them what THEY mean by "it." I dislike assumptions. Also, I am not going to agree if I just don't want to do "heads-up" stuff.

GG
 
As this is not a situation you are in and are exploring because of what you’ve read, you can choose to not be a part of that agreement if a partner wants that. Instead, negotiate what you are comfortable with and ask why they want that agreement. If it feels controlling then they should take a look at that while you say no. Negotiate healthy boundaries
 
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