Empath and Metamour Drama

[K8-Rose]

I do appreciate all the advice and feedback. It really helps me process my own perspective better. For me, I see both Jack and Nic as humans first, full of feelings, features and flaws. I have and will continue to lead with kindness towards others, and trying to believe in their best intentions first, as Jack has actually taught me over the years. For a long time I saw this as being a doormat, but as I have grown older, I realize this is how I also want people to approach me in conversation, so that we can figure out a solution from a place of response vs reaction.

Advise him to break up with her. In theory you could even contact her directly. Tell her to stay away from your man. I'll leave it to you to decide whether that would be a good idea.

I will definitely start by saying there is no veto power here, and no desire to insert myself into his business. Yes, it is impacting me, but how Jack and I are interacting needs to change, not how he chooses to spend his time and energy.

And is "different" something you find "bad?" What is wrong with you doing "different" behaviors?

You can feel things as an empath and choose not to lift a finger. You can feel Jack's stuff and leave it as JACK'S stuff. You do not have to adopt it for your own self. You do not have to help him fix it in order to alleviate your own anxiety from "the back door." Is something like that happening here?

You don't have to help Jack fix his relationship with Nic. Having good personal boundaries with your spouse doesn't make you a "bad partner."

It's not your job to be everything for everybody. It's ok to take care of you FIRST, the children second, and contribute to Jack's wellbeing in APPROPRIATE ways third.


That sounds like the natural consequences. Jack takes up with Nic, who turns out to be rocky or incompatible. Jack continues to participate in this an on/off relationship with Nic, rather than just leaving it broken up once and for all, and not deal in rocky stuff any more. That is his choice.

Some new rocky event happens with Nic. Jack feels distressed about it.

You have become tired of hearing about it all. If Jack has gotten in the habit of oversharing and emotional dumping on you, you don't have to participate in that any more. There is reasonable support and then there's enabling poor behaviors. You now choose to distance yourself from it and let it all be his responsibility to deal with. Which it is.

It's been like "pass the buck" whooshies. Jack gets upset about whatever (Jack + Nic) weirdness. His usual coping behavior is to dump all his feelings on you, so he feels better. And you wind up feeling ugh.

Now when he comes looking to use you as an emotional dumpster or emotional sponge, you can decline. Say you're not up for that anymore, like you used to be. He then feels disappointed or upset or whatever about THAT event with you. So now he has to cope with his feelings about the Nic event and his feelings about the event with you.

Well... so what? Isn't Jack responsible for managing his own emotions appropriately?

And if he doesn't like how he feels, he could change his behaviors so he has a chance to experience new feelings. If he's doing "same old song, different day," and he doesn't like it, it's his job to make new behavior choices.

He could do something different with Nic. He could leave you be. He could see a counselor.

You are changing the behaviors YOU can change. You are distancing. That's totally fair.

Do you struggle with letting people experience their feelings, even the yucky ones, without feeling responsible for them?

I do appreciate your questions GalaGirl, and although I think your delivery was a bit reactional, I hear what you are saying. His emotions are for him to manage, and I am not responsible. I can honestly say I do work hard at practicing this truth. I can't change others, and I know that, it's just that, at the end of some days, I want to be able to sit in a space that is emotionally neutral, and sometimes the point of least resistance to get to that point is to help him move through his. It is the same with the kids. If I need them to load the dishwasher and they have a meltdown, we have to work through the meltdown to get to the state where I don't have to load the dishwasher. Some days that is more exhausting than others, and some days I just want to load the dishwasher myself because the meltdown isn't worth it.

What I do know though, and what I will discuss with Jack, is that I need to be able to clearly communicate when his emotions are bleeding, and that I cannot/do not have the capacity to be near them. I think this was clear in my head for things like when Jack hasn't had enough coffee, that I give him a wide birth because he's testy, and communicating that to him in those moments he understands. I hadn't considered doing the same for his poly relationship emotions. I will do that.

And if he's HOGGING all the emotional space in the home, ask him to seek a counselor and learn to manage HIS feelings more reasonably.

I don't know if couple counseling would help you two. I could be wrong, but you two sound all up in each other's feelings. Changing to something healthier is not abandonment, it's just trying to build a healthier dynamic between you.

Hogging emotional space is an interesting comment. Can people change the dimensions of their emotional space? I don't know if I would empirically be able to find the answer to that question, but my assumption is no, actually. When you think of a baby crying, or a toddler having a tantrum, what they are emitting emotionally is not intentional. They are reacting to a situation, be it internally or externally. We don't like it, and it really impacts us in ways that make us sometimes even recoil. But they are not intentionally taking up emotional space. They are in distress, which is a chemical and biological reaction. Each child's emotional space is also very different, as you can feel when you hear a baby cry or watch a kid tantrum over candy. I think adults are the same way.

Yes, he does need to manage his feelings, and I know he is working at that. But doesn't it also seem reasonable that he also have the space to work through them at home, even on his own? I don't disagree that I should not be responsible, but he needs space for that too. Where can he be safe to do that?

A counsellor is not always available, and you talk to your best friend about things-- and I am his best friend. That doesn't mean the relationship is unhealthy. When you share a space emotions do get mixed up and ugly sometimes. Anyone with a roommate or having lived with anyone can attest to that. This doesn't mean it's unhealthy. It means we are all human and need space at times.

I need to feel safe asking for the space to not have to feel his emotions at the times when I can acknowledge that these emotions are driving me to want to change them. That is an old people-pleasing/"trying to make my space safe" habit that is not serving me well here. There are times when we can bounce ideas off of each other, and when I have the capacity to engage in conversation, like you would with your best friend, about the issues Jack is dealing with. But there are times when I do not. And I need to respect myself, and Jack, enough to acknowledge when those are happening and stick to my boundaries.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

When someone close to you is sad, you can tell that they are sad. It's really as simple as that

 

[icesong]

But doesn't it also seem reasonable that he also have the space to work through them at home, even on his own? I don't disagree that I should not be responsible, but he needs space for that too. Where can he be safe to do that?

Do you have spaces to be by oneself in your house? Separate bedroom or office?

 

[Magdlyn]

I do appreciate all the advice and feedback. It really helps me process my own perspective better. For me, I see both Jack and Nic as humans first, full of feelings, features and flaws. I have and will continue to lead with kindness towards others, and trying to believe in their best intentions first, as Jack has actually taught me over the years. For a long time I saw this as being a doormat, but as I have grown older, I realize this is how I also want people to approach me in conversation, so that we can figure out a solution from a place of response vs reaction.

I will definitely start by saying there is no veto power here, and no desire to insert myself into his business. Yes, it is impacting me, but how Jack and I are interacting needs to change, not how he chooses to spend his time and energy.


I do appreciate your questions GalaGirl, and although I think your delivery was a bit reactional, I hear what you are saying. His emotions are for him to manage, and I am not responsible. I can honestly say I do work hard at practicing this truth. I can't change others, and I know that, it's just that, at the end of some days, I want to be able to sit in a space that is emotionally neutral, and sometimes the point of least resistance to get to that point is to help him move through his. It is the same with the kids. If I need them to load the dishwasher and they have a meltdown, we have to work through the meltdown to get to the state where I don't have to load the dishwasher. Some days that is more exhausting than others, and some days I just want to load the dishwasher myself because the meltdown isn't worth it.

What I do know though, and what I will discuss with Jack, is that I need to be able to clearly communicate when his emotions are bleeding, and that I cannot/do not have the capacity to be near them. I think this was clear in my head for things like when Jack hasn't had enough coffee, that I give him a wide birth because he's testy, and communicating that to him in those moments he understands. I hadn't considered doing the same for his poly relationship emotions. I will do that.


Hogging emotional space is an interesting comment. Can people change the dimensions of their emotional space? I don't know if I would empirically be able to find the answer to that question, but my assumption is no, actually. When you think of a baby crying, or a toddler having a tantrum, what they are emitting emotionally is not intentional. They are reacting to a situation, be it internally or externally. We don't like it, and it really impacts us in ways that make us sometimes even recoil. But they are not intentionally taking up emotional space. They are in distress, which is a chemical and biological reaction. Each child's emotional space is also very different, as you can feel when you hear a baby cry or watch a kid tantrum over candy. I think adults are the same way.

Yes, he does need to manage his feelings, and I know he is working at that. But doesn't it also seem reasonable that he also have the space to work through them at home, even on his own? I don't disagree that I should not be responsible, but he needs space for that too. Where can he be safe to do that?

A counsellor is not always available, and you talk to your best friend about things-- and I am his best friend. That doesn't mean the relationship is unhealthy. When you share a space emotions do get mixed up and ugly sometimes. Anyone with a roommate or having lived with anyone can attest to that. This doesn't mean it's unhealthy. It means we are all human and need space at times.

I need to feel safe asking for the space to not have to feel his emotions at the times when I can acknowledge that these emotions are driving me to want to change them. That is an old people-pleasing/"trying to make my space safe" habit that is not serving me well here. There are times when we can bounce ideas off of each other, and when I have the capacity to engage in conversation, like you would with your best friend, about the issues Jack is dealing with. But there are times when I do not. And I need to respect myself, and Jack, enough to acknowledge when those are happening and stick to my boundaries.

When a toddler is having a tantrum, sometimes the best thing to do is to move to the other end of the couch and let the storm run its course. Usually a toddler tantrum only lasts a few minutes, then they forget what they were mad about and go back to playing.

When an adult (your "best friend" or not) is continually making choices that harm him and make him very upset, sometimes the best thing is to e ask him to go do that somewhere else (be it in his room, or the garage, or the basement, or go out and do yardwork or go for a walk or go to the gym, or go see another friend). Or you leave, taking the kids if necessary. You do not have to share space and listen to his laments every single time he is upset, from bad choices he has made HIMSELF. If his choices are making him miserable, and also hard to be around, from a polyamorous perspective, again, the natural consequences are for him to be alone in his mess and decide what he can do to end the mess (i.e., probably stay broken up).

 

[GalaGirl]

Thank you for more info.

One can be kind AND firm. There is such thing as being "too nice" and overextending yourself. It's a balance. Helping someone else should not come at the expense of your own wellbeing.

I can't change others, and I know that, it's just that, at the end of some days, I want to be able to sit in a space that is emotionally neutral, and sometimes the point of least resistance to get to that point is to help him move through his.

To me it sounds like you are solving YOUR need for rest "from the back door." You're trying do it by "fixing his stuff." THEN you can give yourself permission to rest, because then there's nobody wanting things. I think you could learn to say. "No, thanks. I'm not available," and just get on with your rest more directly, even when other people want things.

I think Jack could learn to expect that you will help in appropriate ways, when you have the energy and bandwidth, but you will say "no" when you do not.

I think you could learn to center/ground more and be ok giving yourself permission to rest to replenish your batteries and attend to your own things first, even when other people are having a hard day.

It is the same with the kids.

I would say it is NOT the same. Children are still learning a lot of things, including coping with their feelings. The parents need to teach them HOW. With children you pick and choose your battles, based on what the highest lesson is.

Here, I would say respecting the child's "no" and helping the child to cope with their feelings appropriately is more important than loading a dishwasher in the moment. Self regulation is a skill. Back in those parenting years I would have held the child and done deep breaths with them. Then asked them if they could manage loading 1-3 things or just no energy for that. If they said "No" I'd respect that "No" immediately and not cajole, beg or guilt trip them, because I want kids to know "No" is a complete sentence and to expect others to respect that.

Then I'd have done the dishes myself. If too much was falling on me during a rough patch, hello, paper plates! Early childhood IS exhausting. Cut corners where you can.

While all people deserve kindness and grace, treating an adult like a child? I don't think that's appropriate. I don't want a partner I have to "parent." I want someone who is already grown up and capable.

Hogging emotional space is an interesting comment. Can people change the dimensions of their emotional space? I don't know if I would empirically be able to find the answer to that question, but my assumption is no, actually.

I believe feelings ensue after action behavior or thinking behavior.

Depending on what behaviors Jack is doing, I think he CAN change his behaviors. For example, if he's in a funk because he had a fight with Nic and he's slamming doors too hard, you could ask him not to slam the door.

When you think of a baby crying, or a toddler having a tantrum, what they are emitting emotionally is not intentional. They are reacting to a situation, be it internally or externally. We don't like it, and it really impacts us in ways that make us sometimes even recoil. But they are not intentionally taking up emotional space. They are in distress, which is a chemical and biological reaction. Each child's emotional space is also very different, as you can feel when you hear a baby cry or watch a kid tantrum over candy. I think adults are the same way.

I agree adults can't always help what they feel. I disagree it is the same though. Adults can choose how they react or respond to that feeling in a way babies cannot. The babies have not yet learned how to manage themselves. Babies only have two feeling "crayons" -- I am ok/I am not ok. Very black and white. They have no language. So all they can do is cry/not cry to alert those around them to their needs.

As they grow, kid learn to talk and communicate. They can maybe work with the 8-crayon box now, name the basic feelings and say what's going on with them, be it happy, sad, mad, scared, etc.

As they get older, there can be more nuance. I can be MIFFED I stubbed my toe on the table, like low-level mad, but I am not going to become APOPLECTIC about it. That's too much. There can be shades of red with that anger feeling. "Miffed" is like pink. "Angry" is like basic red. "Apoplectic" would be going out to red-black or something.

Jack is not a baby or a child. I would expect him to take personal responsibility and manage his feelings appropriately. If he cannot, if he has medical issues, gets emotionally disregulated a lot, etc.? He could see a doctor/counselor for help. It is not on you to solve that.

If it's really bad, and he won't do anything about it, you can stop living with him.

Yes, he does need to manage his feelings, and I know he is working at that. But doesn't it also seem reasonable that he also have the space to work through them at home, even on his own? I don't disagree that I should not be responsible, but he needs space for that too. Where can he be safe to do that?

I see you care about Jack and are very concerned for him and his process. But you are asking about things that are "Jack's stuff" to me. He's a grownup. He can figure it out. Wherever JACK wants to go, where he feels safe, is fine. It's not your job to tell him where those places are.

I don't know the floor plan of your home and you do not have to say online. But say it was a 1-room space, like a dorm. What do young adults in dorms have to do to create some "alone time" for themselves? They coordinate the use of room with the roomie so they can have it to themselves sometimes. They sit in the library and take a study room, hit a coffee shop to journal, take walks in nature, or sit in their car, if they have one, etc.

I think you could do some detangling from Jack. People who identify as empaths can get so caught up in their loved one's feelings and serving other people that they no longer remember who THEY are anymore, where they stop and someone else begins.

(Cont.)

 

[GalaGirl]

A counsellor is not always available, and you talk to your best friend about things-- and I am his best friend. That doesn't mean the relationship is unhealthy.

One can certainly talk to their best friend. But here the best friend is YOU, and you are INSIDE the poly V system. It is not like talking to someone outside the poly system. Do each of you have other trusted friends for help and support? Or do you just have each other and are kind of isolated?

A counselor is not always available, and without health insurance can get spendy. However, you can avail yourselves of whatever resources the community has, even though it might take some digging to get connected.

Here at my library there's a social worker "on call" one coan visit. Like you can check out a book, you can go "check out" the social worker for a while. The Mental Health Association does workshops/community events. The colleges do free-sliding scale mental health care. The grad students provide work under the supervision of a professor so they get some "in the field" intern type experience and the community gets more helpers. One or two of the churches around here does "Deep Listening" in the parks. They put out rows of chairs and the listening volunteers sit on one side, and compassionately listen to whoever chooses to sit on the other side and share whatever they want. There are things like Recovery International with online options.

I encourage you to see what you community has available and seek out online options if you or Jack need to talk to someone OUTSIDE the poly V system.

When you share a space emotions do get mixed up and ugly sometimes. Anyone with a roommate or having lived with anyone can attest to that. This doesn't mean it's unhealthy. It means we are all human and need space at times.

What behavior is "ugly" to you? Like ANY upset is ugly or like there's unmanaged anger or abuse in the home?

I prefer to live with people who can do healthy conflict resolution so that things at home don't have to get to the level of "mixed up and ugly." To me that sounds traumatic.

I need to feel safe asking for the space to not have to feel his emotions at the times when I can acknowledge that these emotions are driving me to want to change them. That is an old people-pleasing/"trying to make my space safe" habit that is not serving me well here.

ARE you safe in this home? I notice you keep talking about "safe."

I cannot tell over the internet if you're extra sensitive from being an empath, or if you are living in a volatile home, or maybe both.

There are times when we can bounce ideas off of each other, and when I have the capacity to engage in conversation, like you would with your best friend, about the issues Jack is dealing with. But there are times when I do not. And I need to respect myself, and Jack, enough to acknowledge when those are happening and stick to my boundaries.

Gently? I crossed out Jack. I could be wrong in my impression, but you sound overly "coupled" with him, like joined at the hip. When really:

• There is sometimes you, individual you.
• There is sometimes Jack, individual Jack.
• And there is (You + Jack) as a couple sometimes.

It's not always "couple mode," like you lost yourself or subsumed yourself to the relationship. Right?

You do NOT have to be everything to everybody all the time. You can have personal boundaries around your time and energy. And if you are tired, you need REST.

It's ok to say "No, thank you. I'm tired and not up for this conversation at this time. I need to rest."

Your priority order could be: you first; then kids (because dependents didn't ask to be here, so they take 2nd spot until they are of age); THEN contributing to Jack's well-being in appropriate ways is third. When the kids are grown you can move Jack to the second spot, if you want.

Even in a crashing plane you'd put your own oxygen mask on first before helping the kids with theirs and then checking on Jack.

I hope things get better for you as you learn to prioritize your well being first and get firmer on your personal boundaries. Doing your own self-care is not being selfish. It is necessary.

Galagirl