Empath and Metamour Drama

K8-Rose

New member
I am relatively new to the poly scene, with only 1.5 years under my belt. My partner J and I have been together for 14 years and have 3 kids, so are very nested. We have done a lot of work together and with therapists to get where we are today after breaking apart the mononormative ideals, and I can honestly say are in the best place we have ever been in, with clearer communication and knowledge of each other's boundaries and ways we each like to be supported.

What I'm struggling with though, is the emotional impact of J's partner N on him. Being very attuned to J's emotional state is something that has always existed for us, and I consider myself an empath. I can tell when he and N are in a good place or bad place, and feel him seeking responses from me, as a result. If they are doing bad, he needs confirmation he's not a bad person; if they are doing good, he needs to share in that happiness with me, from what 'feels' like a place of 'I love N, but I still love you too!'

Sharing in these experiences is poly, I know, and is something I need to better lean into, because I want to support J in all his ups and downs. But, this fall, N has broken off and re-established relationship with J three times. The drama is real, and feeling J on eggshells or with glimmers of hope is hard (let alone my perspective on that relationship, but I know it's not mine to control, so I'm leaving it).

I know I have to shield myself, but how do I do that while trying to remain supportive? And then on top of that, there is the children dynamic. They know and love N, but N's inconstancy is impactful. I don't want to control their relationship with N, but what other options exist?
 
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I am relatively new to the poly scene, with only 1.5 years under my belt. My partner Jack and I have been together for 14 years and have 3 kids, so are very nested. We have done a lot of work together and with therapists to get where we are today after breaking apart the mononormative ideals, and I can honestly say are in the best place we have ever been in, with clearer communication and knowledge of each other's boundaries and ways we each like to be supported.

What I'm struggling with though, is the emotional impact of Jack's partner Nic on him. Being very attuned to Jack's emotional state is something that has always existed for us, and I consider myself an empath. I can tell when he and Nic are in a good place or bad place, and feel him seeking responses from me, as a result. If they are doing bad, he needs confirmation he's not a bad person; if they are doing good, he needs to share in that happiness with me, from what 'feels' like a place of 'I love Nic, but I still love you too!'

Sharing in these experiences is poly, I know, and is something I need to better lean into, because I want to support Jack in all his ups and downs. But, this fall, Nic has broken off and re-established relationship with Jack three times. The drama is real, and feeling Jack on eggshells, or with glimmers of hope is hard (let alone my perspective on that relationship, but I know it's not mine to control, so I'm leaving it).

I know I have to shield myself, but how do I do that while trying to remain supportive?
We suggest using nicknames instead of initials, to make the situation clearer for the readers. I've put in names, but you can choose your own.

I know many of us suffer alongside our partners when they are having struggles with our metamour. Especially break-ups. I am sorry their relationship is so up and down.

Every couple will make a different decision about "helping" our partner (depending on how much you can take), but it is important to have your boundaries. Decide on how much you want to or can do, and stick to it. If Jack is constantly coming to you for reassurance he is a "good person," remind him that the feeling of being good, or worthy, or what-have-you, comes from within. You are not there to constantly prop him up with things he is allowing to let happen and participate in, that are making him unhappy. Don't be a Band-Aid. Let them sort things out.

He can look to others for help, to friends or family that are aware and supportive of polyamory and this current situation. He could also look into therapy if he struggles with self-esteem. You're not his therapist. You're his wife. Your time together should be about you and him, not constant therapy sessions about his difficult other partner and his inability to have firm boundaries.
And then on top of that, there is the children dynamic. They know and love Nic, but Nic's inconstancy is impactful. I don't want to control their relationship with Nic, but what other options exist?
You have every right to "control" who your children see and spend time with. If she is not a healthy person for them to hang out with, you can limit their time with her. (I am assuming Nic is a her.) Kids will need to learn how it's okay for people to come and go in their lives. And that parents have a right (before they are older teens) to make the call on who are healthy companions.
 
It sounds like they have an unhealthy dynamic in their relationship, breaking up and getting back together. Why does Nic do this and why does Jack tolerate it?

Breaking up and getting back together repeatedly reeks of manipulation or very unhealthy communication. Allowing this is harmful to the person being yo-yoed as well as the kids and you.

I know I have to shield myself, but how do I do that while trying to remain supportive?
Do you want to support this unhealthy dynamic? I think supporting yourself and the kids should be the priority here. Jack needs to decide if he’s going to support this bad behavior over his, your and your children’s wellbeing.

And then on top of that, there is the children dynamic. They know and love N, but N's inconstancy is impactful.
Yes, it is.
I don't want to control their relationship with N, but what other options exist?
Step out of their relationship and set boundaries for you and your kids. Nic shouldn’t be welcome around them, you or your home. Jack is free to continue the relationship as he chooses, but you do not want it interfering with the mental health of the rest of you.
 
You don't have to shield yourself. You're allowed to have boundaries. Part of poly (and life) is knowing yourself and knowing your limitations.

What you're describing is your limitation. If your partner's relationships are unstable in the way you describe, for whatever reason, you can't thrive. And that's really okay! That's just who you are.

What you do from here is recognise that limitation, and decide the ways you'll manage your relationships to exclude this type of situation. That's hard to do with a spouse/co-parent/nesting partner because you have to draw some boundaries in your shared living space and around the children's exposure to the drama. It can even lead to you having to have your own space for yourself and them in worst case scenarios.

But for now, I think you should write your partner a letter where you detail all the ways this relationship is genuinely impacting on you and the kids. Let him see it for himself, and then see if he does anything to address the problems.
 
I appreciate the replies. Happy to use Jack and Nic as references. I hope it is okay to reference three of you in this post, becuase I have found your responces to mesh together in my head a bit, and will contribute more to my whole understanding of this picture.


You are not there to constantly prop him up with things he is allowing to let happen and participate in, that are making him unhappy. Don't be a Band-Aid. Let them sort things out.
I can completely agree with this, and have communicated my worries to Jack directly. I no longer have a direct relationship with Nic because as Bobbi has indicated:
Breaking up and getting back together repeatedly reeks of manipulation or very unhealthy communication. Allowing this is harmful to the person being yo-yoed, as well as the kids and you.
This has also been communicated, and I have been a recipient of this manipulation from Nic, so I know this person is not safe for me or my kids.


So you want to support the unhealthy dynamic? I think supporting yourself and the kids should be the priority here. Jack needs to decide if he’s going to support this bad behavior over his, your and your children’s wellbeing.
But it is more complicated than this. Their unhealthy dynamic is definitely separate from the family in most ways. Jack is trying their best to keep their dynamic to themselves, and our discussions about them are few and far between. But as an empath, I can't help but feel the difference. Jack is also feeling the difference in me, because I am distancing myself from him when he is experiencing distress that I know is not caused by me. These are feelings and energy we are talking about here, and just like most bring home bad energy from days from work/school etc., I can't expect that Jack checks all his feelings at the door, puts them in a box, and then comes in neat and tidy. Thats unrealistic and unfair.


What you're describing is your limitation. If your partner's relationships are unstable in the way you describe, for whatever reason, you can't thrive. And that's really okay! That's just who you are.

What you do from here is recognise that limitation, and decide the ways you'll manage your relationships to exclude this type of situation. That's hard to do with a spouse/co-parent/nesting partner because you have to draw some boundaries in your shared living space and around the children's exposure to the drama. It can even lead to you having to have your own space for yourself and them in worst case scenarios.

But for now, I think you should write your partner a letter where you detail all the ways this relationship is genuinely impacting on you and the kids. Let him see it for himself, and then see if he does anything to address the problems.
I do like this perspective though. I would agree that right now I am struggling to thrive in this environment. Going to bed beside someone who is struggling is hard. It's keeping me on eggshells, and Jack a bit too. I am confident we both know the trajectory of Jack's relationship with Nic, but Jack's hope is strong and really unrealistic. I just don't want to be blamed when it ends, and I don't want to feel in the middle, when in fact they are not trying to put me there. It just feels that way, because I can't always shield myself (or hold up a wall between my emotions and others' emotions) at home, where I am supposed to have space to let my guard down. How do you do this in a small space when Jack's emotional broadcasting bubble is around 14 feet?
 
I think you can explain to Jack that while he's doing his best to keep things to himself and not let it spill, he is human, and you are all human, so you are picking up on it and it is affecting you.
Any suggestions as to how to move forward from that? Things that I could do/he could do to make it easier? This is where I am stumpped.
 
Metamour drama is so unfortunate. I don't have advice on this other than to say that I have (and am still, in a way) dealing with metamour drama myself, so I get it. It's tough. Hopefully you have external support for yourself too, like friends/family/a therapist/this forum to go to?

Hugs!
 
He is also feeling the difference as well in me because I am distancing myself from Jack when he is experiencing distress that I know is not caused by me
That’s exactly what you need to do. Being an empath is hard! The only way to protect yourself is by distancing. Do not apologize for it. It’s unfortunate that meta drama is affecting you, but you HAVE to protect yourself. If he is unhappy with the distance, he can choose to rid himself of a harmful relationship. Frankly, if he doesn’t make a change, he may cause irreparable harm to your relationship. There’s nothing you can do but protect yourself.

I would have a frank talk about this and let him know how you feel. DO NOT sugarcoat it to spare his feelings. He needs to know, bluntly, before it’s too late, that if this dynamic continues it will ruin your relationship and you will do what you need to do to protect your emotional self. You cannot support him because you are too busy taking care of yourself.

Maybe he should seek individual therapy to work through his issues with her and being a doormat.
 
Hello K8-Rose,

I don't want to sound cold, but I want to say that Jack picked Nic out as a partner, and Jack is choosing to remain with Nic. As it is his decision, I feel that it is his responsibility to figure out how to cope with Nic's behavior. You can be sympathetic when he vents to you about Nic, and reassure him that he is a good person, but it is not your job to fix the situation for him.

I will say that Nic is acting pretty ridiculous. I wouldn't blame you if you felt disgusted about her behavior, and it must be hard to feel helpless as Jack tells you how he's being treated, and there's nothing you can do about it. Sorry you are in that position and situation. I know you care about Jack. You want to help him. You wish you could help him.

Unfortunately, the kids are being exposed to the results of Nic's drama. I don't know of any way to protect the kids, other than have them stop having Nic in their lives. And I don't know if you can do that. You can of course raise your concerns with Jack, and share with him that you do not think Nic is a good match for him.

Advise him to break up with her. In theory you could even contact her directly. Tell her to stay away from your man. I'll leave it to you to decide whether that would be a good idea. I can certainly understand that you want to protect Jack -- and the kids. But maybe Jack should make his own decision about this?

Just some thoughts,
Kevin T.
 
Tell her to stay away from your man. I'll leave it to you to decide whether that would be a good idea. I
A horrible idea. Please don’t do this. It’s his relationship to deal with. Interjecting yourself will make everything worse. You stay in your lane and she should stay in hers.
 
I'm sorry you struggle.

Sharing in these experiences is poly, I know, and is something I need to better lean into, because I want to support J in all his ups and downs.

To what degree, though? There's nothing wrong with a separate, poly V, and not sharing quite THIS much.

You could ask J to become a better hinge and not overshare or require you to be his external validation source. Doesn't he know he's a good person on his own? Why do you have to reassure him so much and prop him up?

But it is more complicated than this. Thier unhealthy dynamic is definitely sepearte from the family in most ways. Jack is trying their best to keep their dynamic to themselves, and our discussions about them are far and few between.

Good. How about even LESS?

You could encourage Jack to see a counselor. It is not your job to be the free therapist.

For your health and wellbeing, as well as to coordinate kid care, all you need to know about (Jack + Nic) is that Jack uses safer sex practices, and the calendar, so his dates and your dates are reasonable and not like one parent is just dumping kid care on the other one from the sky.

Jack could try:


to seek a poly counselor.


But as an empath, I can't help but feel the difference.

And is "different" something you find "bad?" What is wrong with you doing "different" behaviors?

You can feel things as an empath and choose not to lift a finger. You can feel Jack's stuff and leave it as JACK'S stuff. You do not have to adopt it for your own self. You do not have to help him fix it in order to alleviate your own anxiety from "the back door." Is something like that happening here?

You don't have to help Jack fix his relationship with Nic. Having good personal boundaries with your spouse doesn't make you a "bad partner."

It's not your job to be everything for everybody. It's ok to take care of you FIRST, the children second, and contribute to Jack's wellbeing in APPROPRIATE ways third.

He is also feeling the difference in me, because I am distancing myself from Jack when he is experiencing distress that I know is not caused by me.

That sounds like the natural consequences. Jack takes up with Nic, who turns out to be rocky or incompatible. Jack continues to participate in this an on/off relationship with Nic, rather than just leaving it broken up once and for all, and not deal in rocky stuff any more. That is his choice.

Some new rocky event happens with Nic. Jack feels distressed about it.

You have become tired of hearing about it all. If Jack has gotten in the habit of oversharing and emotional dumping on you, you don't have to participate in that any more. There is reasonable support and then there's enabling poor behaviors. You now choose to distance yourself from it and let it all be his responsibility to deal with. Which it is.

It's been like "pass the buck" whooshies. Jack gets upset about whatever (Jack + Nic) weirdness. His usual coping behavior is to dump all his feelings on you, so he feels better. And you wind up feeling ugh.

Now when he comes looking to use you as an emotional dumpster or emotional sponge, you can decline. Say you're not up for that anymore, like you used to be. He then feels disappointed or upset or whatever about THAT event with you. So now he has to cope with his feelings about the Nic event and his feelings about the event with you.

Well... so what? Isn't Jack responsible for managing his own emotions appropriately?

And if he doesn't like how he feels, he could change his behaviors so he has a chance to experience new feelings. If he's doing "same old song, different day," and he doesn't like it, it's his job to make new behavior choices.

He could do something different with Nic. He could leave you be. He could see a counselor.

You are changing the behaviors YOU can change. You are distancing. That's totally fair.

Do you struggle with letting people experience their feelings, even the yucky ones, without feeling responsible for them?

These are feelings and energy we are talking about here, and just like most bring home bad energy from days from work/school etc., I can't expect Jack to check all his feelings at the door, put them in a box, and then come in neat and tidy. That's unrealistic and unfair.

He doesn't have to turn into an unfeeling robot, but he does have to manage his feelings appropriately and not be sloppy with you. Is he overloading the children with his Nic problems? No? Then he CAN exercise some self control.

So why do you as his spouse have to be the emotional dumpster? Why is he oversharing details as a hinge?

You can set strong personal boundaries. You can set them around your time, emotions, energy, belongings, etc. It's reasonable to want your time with Jack to be (you + Jack) stuff, and not like you sitting around listening to the (Jack + Nic) show. Again, you are NOT the free therapist.

What behaviors is Jack doing when he gets home? It's ok for him to say he had a hard day. But is he slamming doors, sighing big sighs, hoping you will come "fishing" and "pull it out of him?" Something else?

I just don't want to be blamed when it ends. I don't want to feel in the middle, when in fact they are not trying to put me there.

These sound like YOUR worries, fears and feelings. Are you good at self-soothing and managing your own emotions appropriately?

If Jack blames you if Nic dumps him or he dumps Nic, you can say, "No, thanks. I distanced myself. I was not involved in (Jack + Nic) stuff. I see you are sad from the break up. But don't hang your stuff on ME."

They aren't trying to put you in the middle. So why do you feel like you are?

It just feels that way because I can't always shield myself (or hold up a wall between my emotions and others emotions) at home where i am supposed to have space to let my guard down. How do you do this in a small space when Jack's emotional broadcasting bubble is around 14 feet?

Home is supposed to be safe space for the people that live there. If he's "radiating out 14 ft" when he's fighting with Nic, ask him to sleep on the couch. You don't have to sleep in the same bed with him.

And if he's HOGGING all the emotional space in the home, ask him to seek a counselor and learn to manage HIS feelings more reasonably.

I don't know if couple counseling would help you two. I could be wrong, but you two sound all up in each other's feelings. Changing to something healthier is not abandonment, it's just trying to build a healthier dynamic between you.

Do you actually need more shielding, or more grounding and centering, so you can better respect or ignore Jack's stuff and leave it as HIS STUFF to manage?

Not everything in a relationship is "our shared stuff." Some stuff is yours and only your responsibility. Some is Jack's and only Jack's responsibility. And some stuff, like the kid care, is "our shared stuff" that BOTH of you are responsible for. Are you able to tell the difference?

Galagirl
 
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Hello K8-Rose,

I don't want to sound cold, but I want to say that Jack picked Nic out as a partner, and Jack is choosing to remain with Nic. As it is his decision, I feel that it is his responsibility to figure out how to cope with Nic's behavior. You can be sympathetic when he vents to you about Nic, and reassure him that he is a good person, but it is not your job to fix the situation for him.

I will say that Nic is acting pretty ridiculous. I wouldn't blame you if you felt disgusted about her behavior, and it must be hard to feel helpless as Jack tells you how he's being treated, and there's nothing you can do about it. Sorry you are in that position and situation. I know you care about Jack. You want to help him. You wish you could help him.

Unfortunately, the kids are being exposed to the results of Nic's drama. I don't know of any way to protect the kids, other than have them stop having Nic in their lives. And I don't know if you can do that. You can of course raise your concerns with Jack, and share with him that you do not think Nic is a good match for him.

Advise him to break up with her. In theory you could even contact her directly. Tell her to stay away from your man. I'll leave it to you to decide whether that would be a good idea. I can certainly understand that you want to protect Jack -- and the kids. But maybe Jack should make his own decision about this?

Just some thoughts,
Kevin T.
Unless this couple has a hierarchy/couple-privilege/veto power, I don't think the OP can demand they break up, yeah? That doesn't seem ethical unless it's part of an arrangement made by the married couple ahead of time.
 
Unless this couple has a hierarchy/couples' privlege/veto power, I don't think the OP can demand they break up, yeah? That doesn't seem ethical unless part of an arrangement made by the married couple ahead of time.
Even then it's really not THAT ethical.
 
I agree, but vetoes can/do happen. I’ve had it happen to me twice by married men. It sucks.
It DOES suck, and I'm sorry that happened. I used to wonder whether that was what actually happened with my first quad, and then I realized that it didn't really matter anyway as I don't want to be with anyone who would let one person they love force them to hurt another person that they (said they) loved...
 
It DOES suck, and I'm sorry that happened. I used to wonder whether that was what actually happened with my first quad, and then I realized that it didn't really matter anyway as I don't want to be with anyone who would let one person they love force them to hurt another person that they (said they) loved...
Agreed. But threatened wives will sometimes ultimatum, and their husbands give in, to "save the family". Sigh. These two situations were with newly opened couples who really shouldn't have gone into poly at all, or went into it by force, because of a crush, or "I'm bored," and likely not for the healthiest reasons.
 
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