Exploring poly after 25 great years

[Tri46guy]

Hi there,
My wife and I are mid-forties and have been together since we were 21 - so for 25 great years! Yay for us! We have always been up for a little more than monogamy, but both of us are wanting to explore more than just short term hookups/swinging. We are both interested in the growth, connection and additional love that poly would seem to offer and both are honest with each other that we can't fulfill 100% of what we want. We see the role/importance of growth and new people. We have just gone through 2 years of therapy with a great therapist who is very poly friendly and have made great strides in communication and overcoming a lot of insecurities. So we are feeling as ready as we'll ever be to try opening our marriage a bit more...

We enjoy the experience of sharing with others in short term experiences. We have found it to be more warm and cuddly than erotic most of the time. Not to say its not exciting/good sex, cause it is, but seems so much more human and warm to us than as advertised. But that makes us want a little more... Swinging feels easy for us, but lacks true connection... We both like the thought of having actual dating relationships with others, but we are scared of a few things and want to be on this forum to get some responses/advice from others on these questions:

1. Is it really true that you can love more than 1 at a time? Can your partner survive your NRE???? Can you???

2. Can you really keep your primary relationship primary? We know this is a somewhat rhetorical question and that results may vary and some don't even agree with the philosophy of that, but just wanting to hear from some have tried and succeeded... We know growth and change are part of the package and that this path can lead to unexpected places, but we are scared to lose this great love of 25 years!!!

3. How the heck does the time thing work out? We have 3 kids and a full life and a very full overlapping google calendar. Does it really work to involve others and still have enough time for each other, ourselves, and the kids???? Is there still time to read a book?

4. Is it worth it? Is it worth the moments of hurt and panic when you/your partner are feeling insecure? Clearly there are moments when you feel like you are top of the world at other moments and can see that the connection and growth would be rewarding, but is it really and truly with the pain and the brain damage and the risk of screwing up something great????

So I know this forum probably answers these questions to a degree via many threads and we'll start reading them... but thought I'd start out by asking the biggies...

Thanks for any advice or points to existing threads...

 

[GalaGirl]

Welcome! Glad to see you both are taking a responsible approach to Opening and that you've already been working with a therapist ahead of time to clear up any stuff before going in.

1. Is it really true that you can love more than 1 at a time?

Yes. I have done so and think it is possible for others to do so.

Can your partner survive your NRE???? Can you???

I think that is only something you and your partner(s) can answer. I don't know if these help you any there.

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/A._Wagner_-_Avoid_the_Pitfalls_of_Polyamory.pdf

http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/are-you-in-poly-hell

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/14_steps_to_opening_a_relationship.pdf

2. Can you really keep your primary relationship primary?

I think it depends on the participants. You could start with a primary-secondary open model, but you have to accept the model itself has limitations and the people involved may want to change later to a co-primary model or disband or...??

All persons have rights in relationship. Could talk that over.

Could talk about where you see it going over time. Not just at the start.

Could talk about how you see it ending -- even down to everyone single. You are responsible for your own preparedness.

3. How the heck does the time thing work out? We have 3 kids and a full life and a very full overlapping google calendar. Does it really work to involve others and still have enough time for each other, ourselves, and the kids???? Is there still time to read a book?

I think you have to figure it out for yourself. Could take a time assessment. See where you spend your time now, what could be given up to make space for dating and if you don't want to give anything up? Don't date at this time.

Me? I can't hack dating while actively parenting kids and dealing with eldercare. Too many people on my plate wanting my time and attention as it is. Love might be infinite but money and time are not. I might be willing at this time, but I am not ABLE. I am not ready due to constraints on my time. I accept my personal limitation at this time. We're Closed at least til all kids leave the nest..

Maybe these help you assess your readiness in other ways:

http://openingup.net/resources/free-downloads-from-opening-up/

Maybe you continue as you are already -- view it like a series of "Openings" with each one stretching out a bit more. You guys sound like you have opened up to talking about it, opened up to seeing a therapist, opened up to some sex experiences with others.

4. Is it worth it?

Nobody can predict the future. You cannot assess if the attempt was worth it til after it was made.

You are at the starting place. That's a different set of questions to me. Maybe you reframe the question as "what is acceptable risk to me? what is not acceptable risk to me? What am I hoping to get out of this experience?" instead.

Galagirl

 

[Spork]

The other notion that I like is maybe spending time together in poly friendly social settings and, while not particularly hunting down additional partners, just being open to what the universe presents to you. This might be the slower approach, but can potentially yield more compatible results than forcing the issue.

I'm busy too, and when I started dating, I was on OKC and I'd occasionally meet someone for lunch, or for an early coffee or dinner right after work. I'd do it while I was still "out" for the workday. I had a few first dates I knew were gonna just go nowhere, so it helped to not have to go too far out of my way for that before I knew I had a good level of mutual interest.

Trying to make the appropriate amounts of time for everyone can be a big challenge though, for sure.

One thing that I know helps a lot, is to make sure that you take some time, get to know someone, don't let NRE make you hasty and foolish for anybody, and do not let anyone into your life who is bringing a heap of drama with them. I don't mean find someone with no problems...find someone who can handle their problems without constant hysterics. Find someone mature. If you spend a few weeks getting to know them before intimacy occurs, you can try and sniff out if there's any crazy lurking...because when you have a ton already going on, the last thing you need is unstable wildcard type people who make things really difficult.

It helps me manage my poly life IMMENSELY that all four of my loves are older than me, very mature, very stable, generally have their act together. No taking in strays, no addicts, no drama mamas or crazy people. Sane, sophisticated, chill adults. We ALL have busy lives. So we understand when some can make it to some things, others out at other times, and we do what we can to synch it up, but nothing is really a big huge deal.

 

[GirlFromTexlahoma]

Hi and welcome!

Everyone's poly experience is different, so everyone is going to have a different answer to your questions. But I think collecting a (biased and totally unscientific) sample of answers will give you some good food for thought. So here's mine...

1. Yes, yes, and yes

You already love more than 1, well, I'm assuming you love your kids Each love is unique. My relationship with my boyfriend is very different from my relationship with my husband, and I love them both to pieces.

NRE is not, in my experience, the scary mind altering drug poly websites make it out to be. Neither my husband or I has ever felt horribly neglected while the other was starting a new relationship. It usually just means the person in the NRE phase goes without sleep, because

3. Time is finite. You have to prioritize. To me that's the hardest part of poly. I wish I had more time with my BF, but we do our best, and we stay connected through phone and text every day. I still read books... and watch movies... and exercise... My advice here is that when you schedule your busy life, make sure you schedule your "me time" too!

2. Depends on what you mean by "primary". You can certainly decide that you want to live and raise your kids with only your current spouse, and be honest with potential partners that moving in together/having kids together/planning your retirement together is not an option. But you can't *guarantee* that none of you will want to renegotiate those limits at some point.

And you can't set boundaries around how you will feel about new people, whether you will love them every bit as much as your spouse. I mean, you can try, but feelings don't usually follow rules

4. So far, absolutely! For me. For you??? Who knows???

 

[GreenAcres]

Hi there,

1. Is it really true that you can love more than 1 at a time? Can your partner survive your NRE???? Can you???

2. Can you really keep your primary relationship primary? We know this is a somewhat rhetorical question and that results may vary and some don't even agree with the philosophy of that, but just wanting to hear from some have tried and succeeded... We know growth and change are part of the package and that this path can lead to unexpected places, but we are scared to lose this great love of 25 years!!!

3. How the heck does the time thing work out? We have 3 kids and a full life and a very full overlapping google calendar. Does it really work to involve others and still have enough time for each other, ourselves, and the kids???? Is there still time to read a book?

4. Is it worth it? Is it worth the moments of hurt and panic when you/your partner are feeling insecure? Clearly there are moments when you feel like you are top of the world at other moments and can see that the connection and growth would be rewarding, but is it really and truly with the pain and the brain damage and the risk of screwing up something great????

So I know this forum probably answers these questions to a degree via many threads and we'll start reading them... but thought I'd start out by asking the biggies...

Thanks for any advice or points to existing threads...

1. Absolutely!
2. I detest the words "primary" and "secondary," because to me it feels like those confer some kind of class of citizenship in my life, which is really offputting. But, I do have different priorities with different partners, and I think that is totally reasonable. Obviously, you have children and a home with your wife. There are just practical aspects of life that mean those things will take precedence over other things, and, as long as your are up-front about that while still practicing fairness and respect towards new partners (don't continually break commitments, etc.), then I don't think anyone reasonable would expect much else.

In terms of feelings, those things can get more fluid. As others have said, you can't really make rules about feelings, because that isn't how feelings work. Those feelings may, at some point, warrant a revisiting of other priorities and agreements.

3. This is also the toughest for me. My life is ludicrously busy, and I don't even have children. I have no idea how those with kids do it, but kudos to those that manage it effectively. Currently, I am not looking for new partners for various reasons, mostly boiling down to time and emotional energy. My nesting partner and I work somewhat different schedules, and my LDR partner is (and I don't talk about this here and am not up for answer questions about it) in the ending stages of a terminal illness. Dating isn't even a consideration for me right now.

You have to figure out how much time you and your partner have, and how much you can maneuver reasonably. Do you have child care when one or both of you wants to go out, for example? If partners develop attachments, they may want to spend the night with their other lovers. Is this doable? If not, how soon do you tell partners that (it would be a deal-breaker for me, for example, if a potential partner would never be able to stay a night or take a day or two away with me; but, it works just fine for others--just be upfront).

It's a lot, and requires good time management skills. You may be at a place where that works for the two of you. Or, upon discussion of the realities of your current time availability, you may find that you need to table the idea until things free up a bit. Either way, frank discussion about it is your first stop on the train to poly

4. For me? Yes. I wouldn't have missed the relationships I've had; and, as difficult as the current time is, I wouldn't ever want to give up the time I have left with Lovlee (my LDR partner).

 

[Tri46guy]

Thanks for the great replies so far!!! I do appreciate the responses though I know some questions can't really be answered for *me*, just what your experience has been, but thanks for sharing. You poly people are good at sharing apparently!

Of course no one can answer the question of whether my wife and I will stay together, whether we will still love each other 10 years from now whether we stay mono or try poly.. The future is uncertain - I most certainly get that. But if most responses are that folks stayed together with their original partner even though things changed, that would be *good* for where I am now. Where as it would be *bad* for where I am now if most people say that after a long term mono relationship you almost never make the shift and rarely end up staying with that original partner after venturing into poly... So I guess that is more what my question/poll is...

And sorry I don't mean to offend with the primary/secondary language, I realize that many are sensitive to that, but its language that makes sense to me now with where I am, but its instructive to know how others see it after years of poly. I do like the term 'nesting partner'.

I do like the quote that "frank conversation is the first stop on the train to poly!"

 

[GreenAcres]

But if most responses are that folks stayed together with their original partner even though things changed, that is would be *good* for where I am now. Where as it would be *bad* for where I am now if most people say that after a long term mono relationship you almost never end up staying with that partner after venturing into poly... even if both were motivated to try... So I guess that is more what the real question is...

And sorry I don't mean to offend with the primary/secondary language, I realize that many are sensitive to that, but its language that makes sense to me now with where I am, but its instructive to know how others see it after years of poly. I do like the term 'nesting partner'.

I do like the quote that "frank conversation is the first stop on the train to poly!"

I think it will be difficult to get a "most" in either direction, really. We have a lot of members on the forums that have been together for a long time, some who are solo poly, some who had poor or mismatched relationships that didn't stay together (often these relationships were already failing and "adding poly" seemed like a way to fix the issues, or would potentially have started failing anyway; but, some may have been fine if poly hadn't entered the picture, and it's really difficult to say which is which and what the ratio is). We have several members, myself included, with long-lasting relationships with more than one partner.

So, we're all over the map

The primary/secondary language is common. I am sensitive to it because it's been thrown in my face a *lot* by metamours, and is often used to keep one partner's needs or wants from being heard (as it was with me, generally used by the wife of one of my lovers to express that I should not ask for respectful treatment, reasonable requests for time to be uninterrupted for non-emergencies, etc.). There are, of course, people who just use it as shorthand for having one partner with whom they are clearly very entwined with many responsibilities, and other partner(s) with whom the are less entwined. It's a particular sore-spot for me, which is why I don't use it, but I understand that for many people it's a different thing.

Glad I could provide a new turn of phrase And, I tend to think of poly as a journey, so the train metaphor (sometimes hurtling down the tracks, sometimes lazily passing through the countryside) is often my own visualization for it.

 

[Spork]

I have a married couple in my quad, and we don't say words like "primary" and "secondary" often at all. It is just sort of taken for granted that those two are one another's primaries, and we love and respect that as we love and respect them! I am fairly sure that Analyst is more upset by Hefe's unfortunate tendency to finish sentences, than he is by the time Hefe gets in bed with Fire. Fire and Hefe have been married for 13 years!

She had a lover there for a bit who eventually did want to jockey for primary position with Hefe. Eventually there was a lot of drama and that relationship ended. It made them both a little hesitent to be poly again...but they eventually did come back to it. Analyst is no submissive or weak Susan, he is in fact the opposite...he's secure enough to be fine and comfortable in a relationship that includes another guy, without feeling threatened by him.

Again, the biggest challenge is time. The only time that anyone doesn't feel so good is when they aren't getting enough time. We have managed to shut out jealousy, but we don't have a TARDIS in the backyard...

I think that most of the couples I've seen have trouble being poly, is where one of them has desires and expectations that are fundamentally mono, and is going along with it for their partner's sake but they're not really happy about it. Sometimes you can easily tell, or they admit it. Sometimes they pretend very convincingly, and lie to themselves. That sort of thing that really causes problems.

 

[Tri46guy]

In reply to Sporks comment:
"The other notion that I like is maybe spending time together in poly friendly social settings and, while not particularly hunting down additional partners, just being open to what the universe presents to you. This might be the slower approach, but can potentially yield more compatible results than forcing the issue."

Yeah, we aren't moving fast to hunt anyone down. We will keep enjoying swinging for now, but my wife has had an expressed interest in someone who is poly. They started to make some things happen but his wife has called timeout/pullback for them as this relationship may be a little too close to home, so we are taking time to think. We also have a woman I find interesting who has just broken up with her boyfriend that we run into occasionally, but I'm not moving forward until we figure out if we really want poly or just swinging.

Swinging seems pretty uncomplicated right now, but clearly is a very different experience from poly. Fun, but probably not as fulfilling or with the opportunities for growth.
But we kinda want to be ready if anything does start happening. I'm just trying to play it cool as she's still got some stuff she's working on and I feel I've worked through a lot of my insecurity (note to self that I'm sure I'll regret saying that at some point in the near future...)

Anyway, I suspect that trying to prepare for poly is probably like trying to prepare for having your first baby. The classes and books help, but I'm guessing it will be a wild ride and we'll still feel like people still didn't tell us how it really feels at 2 am...

 

[GirlFromTexlahoma]

Of course no one can answer the question of whether my wife and I will stay together, whether we will still love each other 10 years from now whether we stay mono or try poly.. The future is uncertain - I most certainly get that. But if most responses are that folks stayed together with their original partner even though things changed, that would be *good* for where I am now. Where as it would be *bad* for where I am now if most people say that after a long term mono relationship you almost never make the shift and rarely end up staying with that original partner after venturing into poly... So I guess that is more what my question/poll is...

Like GreenAcres said, that's a tough thing to poll, as not everyone started in a monogamous relationship and then opened things up later on. My husband and I were sexually monogamous for ten years before opening up, so we technically fit that pattern... Almost four years now, we're still together and happier than ever, we've never felt like our marriage was at risk at all I know a few poly people in real life, and all those who started poly as a married couple are still married and happy.

And sorry I don't mean to offend with the primary/secondary language, I realize that many are sensitive to that, but its language that makes sense to me now with where I am, but its instructive to know how others see it after years of poly. I do like the term 'nesting partner'.

I sometime say primary or nesting partner when I'm trying to explain my relationship situation to someone for the first time... But honestly I've never heard anyone use those terms in casual conversation. I just say, this is my husband, and this is my boyfriend

 

[Tri46guy]

Cool - thanks GirlfromTexlahoma

Just trying to assess that risk as Galagirl said.. It helps to hear about you all as a couple that's making it work after 10 years together alone before launching into poly. And it does sound like if sane people are involved that maybe the NRE situation is handlable, but hard to predict who is sane and who is full of drama at the beginning...

Galagirl also asked what we wanted to get out of the experience - we have talked about that and it was one of the best conversations we've ever had cause we were both really honest and it was very cool that we both seem to want the same things (mostly). We talked about it a lot and we both like/need some of the excitement of sex with new people. Our own sex life is great and still lots to be explored, but still need something new too. But we also just want/need new ideas and new emotional connections. Its hard for either of us to either bring up something new to discuss that surprises the other or for us to be in awe of each other anymore. And we know we can't give each other NRE. ORE is deep, but its not the wild ride of NRE (except to a degree when we do an escape from the kids vacation). But it seems a shame/wrong to think that to love each other we have to deny the other a chance to ever have that feeling of new love again in our lives. Poly seems more human. So we think we both want this as a path forward to still be able to grow and change, but at the same time, we are pretty happy now... But as my wife said, if we could make this work it seems so like having your cake and eating it too. I like eating cake.

We want to end up together on the porch swing when we are 90 laughing about the great times and loves we had. We are willing to have a bigger porch swing if needed, but we really want to be on the same swing together, you know? Seems like supporting each other in growing and changing and loving might be the path to that porch swing, whereas suppressing and confining doesn't seem to lead that way, based on the couples we know who have tried that then divorced after some things blew up or leaked out... but taking the road less traveled is a bit intimidating... Feels like we are at the top of a black diamond that is very steep with a lot of bumps.

Flexibility is not my middle name, so that will be my challenge with this I think - to see if I bend and change. I always want to have a plan and know what my role is and I suspect the hardest thing for me will be not really being able to have a plan and having my role change.

 

[GirlFromTexlahoma]

I hear what you're saying about the Black Diamond...

Fwiw, my role on my husband's life hasn't changed one bit. He just has more other stuff going on, and so do I. Our other romantic relationships don't really affect our marriage at all - at least no more than, say, our platonic friendships or extended family relationships. Maybe once a month there's a moment where one of us wants to be in two places at once. We do our best to be fair in those situations. We've been known to coin flip for whether to spend a Friday night together or with our other partners

We didn't read a single book or even magazine article about open relationships before starting one. On the one hand, we probably should have prepared more. On the other hand ... We've frequently laughed about the fact that if we had read all the horror stories about poly, we never would have dared to try it!

Know what your boundaries are, as individuals and as a couple, be honest with potential partners, and date people who want the same things as you do. And remember that the stuff you read online is not necessarily representative. People reach out and share when things go wrong. When things are good, sometimes everyone's too busy having fun to write about it

 

[Tri46guy]

Fwiw, my role on my husband's life hasn't changed one bit. He just has more other stuff going on, and so do I. Our other romantic relationships don't really affect our marriage at all - at least no more than, say, our platonic friendships or extended family relationships.

Really, really nice to hear. While its probably not true for all, its really nice to hear its true for you. Thanks for sharing that. A lot.

When things are good, sometimes everyone's too busy having fun to write about it

Sweet.

 

[kdt26417]

Greetings Tri46guy,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

Re (from OP):

"Is it really true that you can love more than one at a time?"

Why, yes it is.

Re:

"Can your partner survive your NRE? Can you?"

You have to be careful with NRE, it is highly intoxicating.

Re:

"Can you really keep your primary relationship primary?"

Some poly units have multiple primary relationships. (Mine does)

Re:

"How the heck does the time thing work out?"

Scheduling.

Re:

"Does it really work to involve others and still have enough time for each other, ourselves, and the kids? Is there still time to read a book?"

It's really hard with kids. It helps if you can employ a babysitter.

Re:

"Is it worth it?"

Yes ... if ... poly is right for you.

Re:

"Is it worth the moments of hurt and panic when you/your partner are feeling insecure?"

Yes ... if poly is right for you.

Re:

"Clearly there are moments when you feel like you are top of the world and can see that the connection and growth would be rewarding, but is it really and truly worth the pain and the brain damage and the risk of screwing up something great?"

Yes if poly is right for you.

My initial experience with poly was complicated because my monogamous wife had Alzheimer's and the disease was progressing. She lost me as a husband as I started shouldering the role of caregiver. And I lost her, but it's doubtful whether poly was the main cause.

I hope these notes and answers prove helpful.
Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"

Notes:

There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!

Please read through the guidelines if you haven't already.

Note: You needn't read every reply to your posts, especially if someone posts in a disagreeable way. Given the size and scope of the site it's hard not to run into the occasional disagreeable person. Please contact the mods if you do (or if you see any spam), and you can block the person if you want.

If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.

Welcome aboard!

 

[Tri46guy]

Thanks Kevin. Thanks for sharing your personal story and very sorry for your loss. Just recently lost my mom after years with Alzheimer's and watched what my Dad went through and so I feel for you - a very hard thing.

 

[kdt26417]

Yeah, it's a really hard thing to go through.