Figuring out root cause of jealousy

ninjagirl

New member
So I kinda feel into polyamory by accident and recently I've been struggling with jealousy but I can't quite figure out why I'm jealous. I would love to get some perspective from others.

First some background - I've been with my husband/boyfriend for almost 18 years. Around a year ago, I felt the need to figure out if I was bi or not. I've wondered before here and there but never did anything about it since I was in a monogamous relationship with my husband/boyfriend. So over the course of a couple of months, I gathered up the courage to talk to my husband about it and got his blessing to go and figure this out. And, so I did. I went on a couple of dates and eventually got into a relationship with a girl that was poly - I confirmed that I was bi.

Everything was great to start and she is married too. I'm not jealous of her husband at all. I've seen them hug/kiss each other on the cheeks/etc and was completely fine. But then she got another bf - which I struggled for a bit but I wasn't overtly jealous. Feel more neutral and sometimes mild curiosity in terms of what they do/etc. And then she got a 2nd bf, which made me sad and sometimes numb. Recently, she got a 3rd bf and that really pushed me over the edge. So, she basically got 4 new relationships over a 6 month or so period. But I still can't quite figure out why her having these boyfriends makes me feel so sad. I know she wouldn't leave me for them - so it's not an insecurity thing. I read some jealousy articles/etc and none of the descriptive terms really ring true to me except for maybe being hurt somehow?

I know she loves me and probably doesn't love them. (She tells me these other relationships are more FWB types and I believe her.)

How do you figure out the root cause of jealousy?
 
Are these consecutive or concurrent BFs? If the latter, how does she find enough time in her week to manage a husband, 3 BFs and you all at once? Your jealousy might stem from a fear of losing time with her.
 
How do you figure out the root cause of jealousy?

Jealousy always means that something huge is not right with you, so whatever the cause, your mental health depends on listening to your emotion here. Don't try to get rid of jealousy out of hand, stop and ask your jealousy what it wants. Really. Stop and ask. Your jealousy will tell you pretty clearly if you really do stop trying to push it away and listen to it. You don't need to ask all of us and online articles from so-called poly experts - we can only guess - but I guarantee that you know, if you listen to your internal voice and stop trying to silence it.

Are you aware that being polyamorous doesn't mean that it's cool to follow up on every attraction we feel? In poly, as in monogamy, we have agreements with our partners about what we feel comfortable with regarding other partners. You keep saying that she "got" another BF (and another and another, etc.) but had you agreed to this premise that it's OK for her to go around and gather up sex partners? Or do you feel that because it's a poly relationship, it must ipso facto be ok for her to be doing this? Pursuing every sexual attraction one feels is not automatically part of a poly relationship and in fact, a good poly relationship requires that the partners specifically share how each feels about who and what is OK beyond the presently established couple/group involved (whether they are sexual partners or not - AKA, metamors.) Have you had such a discussion with your GF and have you been honest with her about what is and is not OK with you?
 
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Are your time needs being met sufficient to have a relationship that feels good? Are you secure that they will continue to be?

How about your intimacy needs? Which often takes time?

This is my guess.

She may need freedom to flit. It might not work for you. Or you might just need reassurance.

Do you feel secure you could find another girlfriend with or without continuing the first relationship if she spreads herself too thin to feel like a romantic relationship?

Do you feel secure she will listen and take into account your needs as she dates?

(note: she doesn't"t need to limit herself, but she does need to consider impact and discuss and adjust where she can for you two to flourish. The question should be: how can I do what I need in a way that still lets you have what you need?
 
She sounds she is more like a Swinger than Poly. Poly is like monogamy just with a 3 or maybe more people. We have a relationship with another guy, with my wife and him it is sexual. With the three of us it is friendship. We have had a woman or two in our relationship, but they were more into monogamy. If a woman joins us great, she does not have to be bi. We almost had a Gf a month back. She was Chinese and did massage, no not the happy ending kind. Actually knew how to correct the body. There was something between us. We talked about it. I had to use the cell phone translator to explain polygamy. That was so funny. She held up 3 fingers, then 2 and asked if he got just time with me? Of course. Sadly she had to move out of the area. There is no market for non-western medical treatments here. But unless there is a relationship we are not interested in just sex.
 
Are these consecutive or concurrent BFs? If the latter, how does she find enough time in her week to manage a husband, 3 BFs and you all at once? Your jealousy might stem from a fear of losing time with her.

These are concurrent BFs. She does spend "enough" time with me since my time is pretty constrained with kids & husband. We're not seeing each other any less because of these relationships (at least not yet). One of her bfs, she only sees once a month or so. Not sure of the others.
 
Jealousy always means that something huge is not right with you, so whatever the cause, your mental health depends on listening to your emotion here. Don't try to get rid of jealousy out of hand, stop and ask your jealousy what it wants. Really. Stop and ask. Your jealousy will tell you pretty clearly if you really do stop trying to push it away and listen to it. You don't need to ask all of us and online articles from so-called poly experts - we can only guess - but I guarantee that you know, if you listen to your internal voice and stop trying to silence it.

Are you aware that being polyamorous doesn't mean that it's cool to follow up on every attraction we feel? In poly, as in monogamy, we have agreements with our partners about what we feel comfortable with regarding other partners. You keep saying that she "got" another BF (and another and another, etc.) but had you agreed to this premise that it's OK for her to go around and gather up sex partners? Or do you feel that because it's a poly relationship, it must ipso facto be ok for her to be doing this? Pursuing every sexual attraction one feels is not automatically part of a poly relationship and in fact, a good poly relationship requires that the partners specifically share how each feels about who and what is OK beyond the presently established couple/group involved (whether they are sexual partners or not - AKA, metamors.) Have you had such a discussion with your GF and have you been honest with her about what is and is not OK with you?

I guess I'm trying to listen to my inner voice and I'm not figuring it out yet. Thought maybe reading some root causes from others or suggestions might get something to resonate with me and help me find out.

I'm so new to poly that I don't really know what to ask/etc. I think that is partly part of the problem. When we first started, she actually did ask me if I'm good with her dating guys and I said I would prefer that she doesn't. Obviously, she went ahead anyways but then we just started to date so I didn't necessarily have a say? The relationship wasn't that great and she was going to break up and actually kinda did break up with the guy. At the time, she said that she wasn't going to actively look for another relationship but then a week or two later starting talking about approaching a guy that she liked... So anyway, that is how she got her 2nd bf, and she made up with her 1st one - hence two. I was having some trouble at that point, though I guess I didn't know quite to say nor did I come out strongly and said anything. I mostly just joked that she got more than she bargained for. As for her 3rd, she went to a play party and met him. She did ask me if it was ok for her to go to the play party. And she did tell me what happened at the party but I guess I thought it was just a one night thing? She didn't even mention him by name. But then a week or two later, I hear about her going out on dates with the guy - and now I know his name...

We did talk about this now but I'm already in a really bad place. I felt like that I'm just being told all this (if I am at all) and she expects me to object? But I think sometimes when I'm told it's already too late. We agreed that she should tell me these things while she is thinking about them and not after she made her decision. It feels bad to constrain her and say no after her decision has been made. And, anyways, I got "ignored" the first time? Though our relationship wasn't that deep then. Maybe like you said, I felt like since she is poly she shouldn't be constrained this way and so I try not to constrain her.

We kinda came to a crisis point a week back. I basically had a breakdown in front of her. And from that, she has agreed to stop getting new partners. Also at one point she suggested that she can break up with these guys. I said no and that I was going to try something else to make myself feel better. I tried my thing - it didn't work. So I went back to her and asked her about her suggestion. At which point, she kinda got to a place of thinking me vs them and that if she ditches them she might lose me anyways and so she was leaning towards breaking up with me. Frankly, after a night of no sleep - plus I have been agonizing over these issues for 2-3 months now - I was ready to break up with her too. I was just thinking if I should let her do it or if I should do it. Throughout this, I always felt that I wasn't important to her. And from some of the conversations we had due to our "crisis" I realized the reason why is because I had plans to move away in a year or so. So it made sense and I feel much calmer now. She has also agreed that she can put her other relationships on hold if it'll help me. (This was another suggestion that she made) But she was like - if I'm putting these other relationships on hold, we need to work on my jealousy and figure it out. Otherwise, things will just be the same after the pause. So here I am trying to do some introspection...

The other thing is, I'm not sure if she really needs to do a pause? I feel much calmer now and she always looks so sad and troubled when we talk about it. We still have to decide what a pause would look like - no communication at all? no sex? etc.. - and exactly when the pause would start...
 
How do you figure out the root cause of jealousy?
Firstly, "jealousy" isn't the evil it's too-commonly presented as.

Jealousy is an alarm bell. It's up to the person experiencing it to determine what set it off, & whether there's an ACTUAL threat of some sort, & whether maybe the trigger is too sensitive.

Those who never feel any jealousy at all are probably messed-up people, mentally &/or emotionally.
Those who let themselves get yanked around by never-ending alarm bells are probably not much better off.

A major failing of monogamy is that the cult of Monogamism tells people that losing one's mind with jealousy is somehow Romantic, & "proof of True Love."
Some nonmonogamists try to flip that 180 degrees, making jealousy a proof of LACK of True Love, which is just as crazy.
________________

Second: jealousy is both rational & logical -- there is purpose.

It usually indicates fear of loss, or of incursion, or of unwanted change.

There can also be multiple alarms going off, especially since so many people are trained to push down their doubts & ignore the initial warnings until they find themselves overwhelmed.

It's up tothe individual to figure out -- possibly with assistance like discussing it with a partner, friend, or therapist -- what specifically is setting off the alarm. Then, that person can consider whether there's merit to the triggering.

Valid or not, it's inherent to polyamory that the experience can be addressed to other partners, especially the one(s) who seem to be there when the bells go off. If those conversations can't be had, it's NOT polyamory.
________________

ninjagirl, what you are experiencing may or may not be "jealousy." I get the impression you're applying the term (in part) to minimize your right to have the feeling, & that you hold the belief that jealousy is EVil or at least Bad.

The FACT is that you've discovered some serious rifts with your girlfriend. Rather than dealing with THOSE, you're poking at the alarm system.
  • you probably thought you had something really special going with her, & are experiencing NRE & Romantic thoughts & all that stuff... then she makes clear that to her you're probably just another fuckbuddy/FWB.
  • there are 24 hours in a day & 168 in a week, & most of us need at least half for our own individual pursuits. Yet she has gone from dividing her remaining hours two ways to FIVE ways.

    (IME, it CAN be properly done (as I've detailed elsewhere)... BUT it's something I worked up to over four years, AND all my lovers knew each other & communicated very well.)

    The time-demand thing has only got worse with the Internet, & far worse with cellphones. Seems like most people think even someone who's at "occasional hookup" status requires/deserves hours of weekly maintenance, with 24/7 access.


(My luck can be terrible. If I had a girlfriend like yours, she'd probably be answering texts & tweets & skypes all the time, & THEN need to soothe the ones she's ignored for five minutes, THEN move on to the next one. Since she's the center of the Universe (yah, I've been there... :(), she'd never turn off her devices, in case someone NEEDED her at 3:27 am, like having an anxiety attack about being late to work because snow was predicted. :rolleyes:)

All is NOT lost!! :) Since she's polyamorous, & now you are as well, you two not only CAN talk about this, but MUST talk about it, & ASAP.

She should NOT try to "fix" your jealousy. Rather, she MUST address how the additions to her life (in which you apparently had no say whatever) are going to affect her relationship with you.

Then YOU must determine whether you find this acceptable.
 
Are your time needs being met sufficient to have a relationship that feels good? Are you secure that they will continue to be?

How about your intimacy needs? Which often takes time?

This is my guess.

She may need freedom to flit. It might not work for you. Or you might just need reassurance.

Do you feel secure you could find another girlfriend with or without continuing the first relationship if she spreads herself too thin to feel like a romantic relationship?

Do you feel secure she will listen and take into account your needs as she dates?

(note: she doesn't"t need to limit herself, but she does need to consider impact and discuss and adjust where she can for you two to flourish. The question should be: how can I do what I need in a way that still lets you have what you need?

You ask some good questions. I don't think time is the issue. I probably can find another girlfriend if I wanted to, but I have my husband to consider. He is adjusting too. So very likely if we break up, I probably won't look for another girlfriend. At least I'll try to see if I'll be happy without one.

And yea... maybe I don't feel secure that she will take into account my needs as she dates. She hasn't so far. Though with these types of things - relationships deepens and changes organically. I don't think you can come up with rules beforehand.
 
Firstly, "jealousy" isn't the evil it's too-commonly presented as.

Jealousy is an alarm bell. It's up to the person experiencing it to determine what set it off, & whether there's an ACTUAL threat of some sort, & whether maybe the trigger is too sensitive.

<..snip..>

ninjagirl, what you are experiencing may or may not be "jealousy." I get the impression you're applying the term (in part) to minimize your right to have the feeling, & that you hold the belief that jealousy is EVil or at least Bad.

I never meant to imply that jealousy was bad. Like any emotion - it just is and it has a purpose. Though it feels much better to not be jealous. 😜

The FACT is that you've discovered some serious rifts with your girlfriend. Rather than dealing with THOSE, you're poking at the alarm system.
  • you probably thought you had something really special going with her, & are experiencing NRE & Romantic thoughts & all that stuff... then she makes clear that to her you're probably just another fuckbuddy/FWB.
  • there are 24 hours in a day & 168 in a week, & most of us need at least half for our own individual pursuits. Yet she has gone from dividing her remaining hours two ways to FIVE ways.


  • That is probably true - my jealousy is warning me that I'm getting to close when I'm just a fuck buddy to her. Even thinking that hurts. Ah, well.

    All is NOT lost!! :) Since she's polyamorous, & now you are as well, you two not only CAN talk about this, but MUST talk about it, & ASAP.

    She should NOT try to "fix" your jealousy. Rather, she MUST address how the additions to her life (in which you apparently had no say whatever) are going to affect her relationship with you.

    Then YOU must determine whether you find this acceptable.

    Yes, we have talked. My previous posts gave more details. Not sure where this is going to go at this point and if I am just a fuck buddy - I don't know if I want that. She always tells me that I am not though. And tries to emphasize it even when she talks about some of her other relationships. But actions speaks louder than words... and maybe she protests too much...
 
Hello ninjagirl,

It sounds like your girlfriend has started to amass a neverending stream of new boyfriends, taking advantage of your goodwill and expecting you to be fine with a smaller and smaller fraction of her love life. This would be enough to make anyone feel jealous or otherwise bad, I know it would make me feel bad. Perhaps you have already passed your limit on how many boyfriends you can stand to share her with. Otherwise, what is the number? Four boyfriends? Five? More? all with a husband, of course, so that's like one more. I feel that you have been hurt just a little bit more, each time she has collected another boyfriend. Like, now you are just part of her collection. So your jealous feeling is understandable. I guess the thing to do now is, think about whether you want to keep seeing/dating her, given her proclivity which you didn't previously know about.

To a large extent, I am just thinking out loud here. But these are some of the thoughts that I had.

Sympathetically,
Kevin T.
 
Yes I think the math here is that your gf - while honest, is spreading herself quite thin ..

While there is no reason for me to judge her as she is honest, you should judge whether the shallower relationship you are being offered is something that you want to pursue and invest in for your future.

When I use the word shallow I don't mean it with value judgement - but to make the point again. the sheer numbers - the math here guarantee that you can't get a lot from the relationship, regardless of how much you put in..

blessing to you and yours
 
Thank you for everyone's thoughts. It has help me clarified mine. I guess my jealousy was just warning me that I'm getting in too deep while she wasn't. And even though now we've agreed to try to work things out and for me to be more "important" to her, I wonder if it is really what she wants. Or even what I want? It's so odd to ask someone to treat you as important. In a way, you either are important to them or not...

Guess I'll have to have another heart to heart conversation with her. Still need to figure out the thing with pausing her other relationships...
 
Thank you for everyone's thoughts. It has help me clarified mine. I guess my jealousy was just warning me that I'm getting in too deep while she wasn't. And even though now we've agreed to try to work things out and for me to be more "important" to her, I wonder if it is really what she wants. Or even what I want? It's so odd to ask someone to treat you as important. In a way, you either are important to them or not...

Guess I'll have to have another heart to heart conversation with her. Still need to figure out the thing with pausing her other relationships...

Hi , NG


SOunds like something that will evolve and the steps towards clarity and the steps are forward towards finding what you need to be fulfilled .

I guess the distinction I see here is asking one to make you important vs telling her what you are looking for.. and what won't be enough for you..

i think there is no depth without devotion and WILLING compromise and I think that that must apply to all poly or non... and conversely - as I think you touch on, we can never do well urging someone to feel a certain way... but yes.. a disclosure of what you need is not a threat or an ultimatum but an offering..

best,
Patrick
 
Requesting someone change their feelings is asking a lot but asking them to express their feelings in ways that you understand is very acceptable. You have to know what specific words or actions you want to request and that can take some thought and experimentation.

Leetah
 
Thank you for everyone's thoughts. It has help me clarified mine. I guess my jealousy was just warning me that I'm getting in too deep while she wasn't. And even though now we've agreed to try to work things out and for me to be more "important" to her, I wonder if it is really what she wants. Or even what I want? It's so odd to ask someone to treat you as important. In a way, you either are important to them or not...

Guess I'll have to have another heart to heart conversation with her. Still need to figure out the thing with pausing her other relationships...

Yes, you are wise to be wary of this. My two partners used to be involved with each other (before I was involved with either of them), and it over time it became clear that ONE of them was way more emotionally invested in the relationship than the other.

Eventually that was the death knell for their "relationship" (he denies they ever had a committed relationship, which tells a story in itself) though they remain close and loving friends, and are now both my co-primary partners, in an odd turn of events.

He and I have also had our problems in this respect. Jester's communication skills could use some work, which has resulted in me being/feeling neglected emotionally, all too often. The difference is that when I pointed this out to him (using specific examples of where demonstrations of care and affection are lacking, and how he could improve on this - very important!), he eventually stepped up and changed his behaviour to make me feel like I'm an intrinsic part of his world.

Sometimes, when people have different relationship needs AND vastly different styles of communication or love languages, the gap can be too hard to bridge, even where real love exists. One party may always feel neglected or vaguely dissatisfied. You can TRY, but ultimately it'll be up to your partner whether she is willing to meet you - if not on your terms - at least halfway.
 
You started this with her to see if you were bi. You confirmed it. I didn't read anything about you wanting to get into this because of a deep bond with her or similar. So perhaps it's just had its run? Initially compatible for what you wanted to get out of it but not deeply compatible for more. along the way you learned some other things about yourself.

Sounds like when this was an "N" you were ok with it. You and GF each have spouses. And then you and GF were linked together. That size network felt ok. Now that she's dating more BFs, and her side of it is not linked to 1 spouse, but more wagon wheel spokes, it's too big a network for your tastes. If so? Nothing wrong with that. Some people feel saturated at X, some at Y. So it's another reason why you guys were initially compatible, but not deeply compatible.

Love might be infinite, but the resources of time, money, and energy for dating are not.

If this is your first time dating outside the marriage, there's learning how to navigate all that. How to tell what is a worthwhile investment and when to cut your losses. So I can understand your hesitating here.

But this seems clear to me --

At which point, she kinda got to a place of thinking me vs them and that if she ditches them she might lose me anyways and so she was leaning towards breaking up with me. Frankly, after a night of no sleep - plus I have been agonizing over these issues for 2-3 months now - I was ready to break up with her too. I was just thinking if I should let her do it or if I should do it.

That to me sounds like you both know this kite has had its run and it won't fly any more. :(

I think you could part ways and move on to the healing place. It's better place to linger than the "dragging it out" space.

Galagirl
 
You started this with her to see if you were bi. You confirmed it. I didn't read anything about you wanting to get into this because of a deep bond with her or similar. So perhaps it's just had its run? Initially compatible for what you wanted to get out of it but not deeply compatible for more. along the way you learned some other things about yourself.

I guess that was implied. If we didn't have a strong bond, I probably won't be bothered by any of this. She has said that she loves me and I the same. Though maybe I'm a cliche.. given she is the first girl I've kissed. They say your first girl girl relationship tends to be very intense. We always have fun when we are together though I guess that doesn't necessarily mean good compatibility.

That to me sounds like you both know this kite has had its run and it won't fly any more. :(

I think you could part ways and move on to the healing place. It's better place to linger than the "dragging it out" space.

Galagirl

We have had another talk after that day. I told her how I felt and we agreed that I really wasn't important to her because I was going to move away. I also told her that I felt like she was giving up really easily on our relationship. This was actually the conversation where she said she decided that she was ok with putting her other relationships on pause. And she also said that she is willing to commit to me a bit more - but it's unclear what that commitment is. So we're still trying to work it out. Her other relationships isn't on pause yet. I feel a lot better - not sad anymore - because it all makes logical sense. The last couple of times we went out since then we were both happy. But I also feel different somehow...
 
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