Finding poly too hard

Harggy said:
Wow that sounds hard. I'm so sorry you went through this.

I can see why from the outside it would seem like there are similarities, but really, there's not. I think I'm just really bad at explaining myself, especially when I want to get all my hurt out and it leaves the story very one sided.

He's currently (and has previously) dating models mostly because this is who he has access to through work. He would most likely be seeing more and varied women except that the times he's around people that he could get to know and have a chance of hoping up with, I'm there and he knows it makes me uncomfortable and so doesn't. In the past this wasn't always the case. His past relationship was also a model but an alt one and so she wasn't the stereotypical skinny tiny young girl and as such I felt far less threatened by her (except that she wasn't a nice person and made everything difficult).

To clarify regarding inviting a girl to the house.... She didn't COME to the house, because I said no, my partner would only have had someone there if I had said yes, he broached the conversation with the other two girls to access their availability before approaching.... This still isn't ok with me, but in his words he didn't want to raise a difficult conversation only to find out no one could come anyway. (Still not ok, but not purposefully manipulative or deceptive)

I know all these bad things I've shared make him sound like a real douche, but honestly, I could write an equally long post about how wonderful he is and wax lyrical forever about the good points in our relationship. He's an amazing man that's working hard for our relationship. He has even said that he would go monogamous before allowing this relationship to end, but I can't ask that of him, it's too much a part of who he is and I don't want to change the man I love in to something he's not. I want to deal with my insecurities and make what we have work. And if I wasn't 100% sold on this relationship I absolutely wouldn't be investing so much effort in it. So, trust me, he's definitely one of the good ones, he's just been a dick and made some stupid mistakes, and so have I xxxxx
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Mmhm, I thought my ex was a "great guy" the first year too... The fact remains, he invited 2, or was it 3, women to come to YOUR house and be with him with YOUR kid in it while you were away, all before having even discussed this scenario with you.

I hope it's all less weird than I read in your OP. I truly do.
 
I'm sorry, but when someone starts a thread with a post detailing negative, hurtful behavior on the part of their partner and then meets every response with "Oh, but he's really a wonderful guy, it's just that..." I see it as a warning flag.

If I'd seen it as a bloody warning flag in my own relationships, I would have had a far easier last half of 2014-first two thirds of 2015. I didn't want to hear it when people pointed out the inherent problems in my relationships, particularly with S2, because "he was a really wonderful guy."

Which he was, in many ways. No matter how furious I am with him, I can't negate the positive benefits I gained from the relationship. But the problematic, hurtful behaviors began months before the relationship ended, and even being fully aware that I should end it, I couldn't do it. I kept wanting to believe things would be better. That he was being completely honest with me as he claimed. When it finally did end, not only did I have to recover from a break-up, but from the three months or so of putting myself second to him and of disrespecting myself and sacrificing my well-being for his sake.

Yeah. Long story short, if you feel like you have to defend him when people are telling you that you're right about his behavior not being healthy for you, his behavior probably isn't healthy and you're trying to find any reason to hang on. There's nothing wrong with that. No one wants to admit they're wrong about their partner, or that their partner is acting in a hurtful, harmful way toward them. But I would urge you to consider what everyone here is saying, and I'm telling you this from the perspective of someone who did exactly what you're doing and paid the price.
 
Even if he is a completely wonderful guy, that doesn't mean he's a good fit for you. Still, I stand by my original advice.

Anyway, you don't have to convince anyone here that he's wonderful. It's good enough if you think about what people are saying and decide whether it applies to you!
 
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I'd love to feel like I don't have to convince anyone of anything, but I'm finding it difficult to get the advice I'm looking for, as people are too busy assuming they know my relationship better than I do. You guys have half a story, and while I accept that I have come and shared a pile of negative (because trying to detail the entirety of our relationship would take too long and be pointless) in really unsure what else I can say to stop people trying to convince me to give up on the love of my life (not going to happen) and focus on the actual questions in asking. I've come and bared my soul, have corrected where I have shared a story wrongly and yet still I'm being told I MUST be wrong. If you want to help you'll have to start listening because currently I'm finding this forum more of a hindrance than a help and I'm positive that's no ones intention.
 
At this point in time, could you be willing to list the current things you need help with? Have you sat down to determine what you are and are not up for? What the A, B, and C things are?

I could be wrong but in scanning your posts so far I think I hear this...

Dealbreakers:

  • ?

Relationship Model we practice

  • He's up for a monogamous relationship. He is willing to give up existing relationships to do so. I don't want this.

VS

  • Polyamory is not something I especially wanted to get into. I currently experience a lot of mental health stress as a result of my participating in a polynetwork with him.
    • I'd like to ask him to stop seeing this particular partner.
    • I would be more comfortable if he was seeing someone who was also in a long term relationship, or if we found someone we dated together.
    • I don't want to date others. I just want to be with him. The idea of being with others (at least without him) doesn't appeal to me at all.

(You have a lot of internal conflict there. I wonder if you might prefer to take him up on his monogamy/Closed offer and be able to lay all this internal conflict to rest that way? Have you considered that? )

A: Things he will work on
  • Learn to broach things with me first. Not the other people first. Especially when babysitting son.
  • Other?

B: Things I will work on

  • Jealousy management
  • Grow patience (I'm impatient so find it hard to think on long term achievements)
  • Depression management
    • Learn to articulate how I feel accurately
    • learn to articulate what I need accurately
    • learn to stop overthinking/ruminating
    • learn to weather the storm of "emotional drop" until it passes
  • Other?


C: Things we both have to work on
  • Continue to communicate clearly along the way
  • Continue to rebuild trust
  • Other?


TIME FRAME

We will work on these things for the next _____ months. We will reassess on progress to date on ______. If things are ____% along, we can extend the timeline. If no reasonable improvement or effort made, then we will _______.

​

The only way I know of to stop over thinking and ruminating is to be decisive and stick to a plan that is laid out plain. So again... I encourage you to make it. If you are not seeing a counselor, you might consider it to help you form your plan and clarify your thoughts. As well as help you with the list of things you are supposed to work on. Everyone holds up their end of the stick.

Galagirl
 
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This is helpful, I'm going to think on this and fill in the gaps tomorrow. Thank you :)

GalaGirl said:
At this point in time, what would you like help with? Could you be willing to list the current things you need help with?

Have you sat down to determine what you are and are not up for? What the A, B, and C things are?

I could be wrong but so far I am hearing this....

Dealbreakers:

  • ?

Relationship Model we practice

  • He's up for Closing and a monogamous relationship. He is willing ti give up existing relationships to do so. I don't want him to do this.

VS

  • Polyamory is not something I especially want. I do it just to be with him. I experience mental health stress as a result.
  • I'd like to ask him to stop seeing this particular partner.
  • I would be more comfortable if he was seeing someone who was also in a long term relationship, or if we found someone we dated together.
  • I don't want to date others. I just want to be with him and the idea of being with others (at least without him) doesn't appeal to me at all.

You have a lot of internal conflict there. I wonder if you might prefer to take him up on his monogamy/Closed offer and just lay this internal conflict to rest that way?


A: Things he will work on
  • Learn to broach things with me first. Not the other people first. Especially when babysitting son.
  • Other?

B: Things I will work on

  • Jealousy management
  • Grow patience (I'm also impatient so find it hard to think on long term achievements)
  • Depression management
    • Learn to articulate how I feel accurately
    • learn to articulate what I need accurately
    • learn to stop overthinking/ruminating
    • learn to weather the storm of "emotional drop" until it passes


C: Things we both have to work on
  • Continue to communicate clearly along the way
  • Continue to rebuild trust
  • ?

Galagirl
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I've included my input within the original text, this might make it hard to read though, I'm rubbish at all this formatting, sorry :-/

GalaGirl said:
At this point in time, could you be willing to list the current things you need help with? Have you sat down to determine what you are and are not up for? What the A, B, and C things are?

I could be wrong but in scanning your posts so far I think I hear this...

Dealbreakers:

there aren't hard and fast 'dealbreakers', I'll only know something is a deal breaker when it happens.

Relationship Model we practice

  • He's up for a monogamous relationship. He is willing to give up existing relationships to do so. I don't want this.

VS

  • Polyamory is not something I especially wanted to get into. I currently experience a lot of mental health stress as a result of my participating in a polynetwork with him. (This isn't strictly true. Poly was something I was interested in when we got together, but has proven to be problematic for me.)
    • I'd like to ask him to stop seeing this particular partner. (Yes, and no. I could never ask him to stop seeing someone, it wouldn't be fair. I wouldn't ever want to risk the bad feeling that may come with this. Also, in many ways this partner fits easily in to our life, her interests don't conflict with ours and she lives a distance away that means she won't be interested in taking too much of his time. The negatives are the grudges I hold against her which are unfair since they are solely my and my partners issues...)
    • I would be more comfortable if he was seeing someone who was also in a long term relationship, or if we found someone we dated together.
    • I don't want to date others. I just want to be with him. The idea of being with others (at least without him) doesn't appeal to me at all.

(You have a lot of internal conflict there. I wonder if you might prefer to take him up on his monogamy/Closed offer and be able to lay all this internal conflict to rest that way? Have you considered that? )
I have and I couldn't, while I would love to be monogamous with him, it would have to be something that was entirely his choice. Poly is something that is at the heart of him. He has tried monogamy before and even our short breaks from poly see a dampening in who he is. I can not choose my welfare over his in this relationship, it needs to be something that fits us both.

A: Things he will work on
  • Learn to broach things with me first. Not the other people first. Especially when babysitting son.
  • he is also holding back his flirtations with others when I'm around, at least for the time being as while I was fine with this, it has now become hard for me.
  • he is committed to only having one other relationship (where previously this has been unlimited) but may have casual relations too.
  • we are working on returning our relationship slowly to the 'best friends' we were by telling each other everything but slowly so as to access comfort and limits.
  • certain places for photo shoots and dates are off limits and are sacred to us until I inform him otherwise
  • the house is entirely off limits until I inform him otherwise
    (There's probably more but my memory is terrible)

B: Things I will work on

  • Jealousy management
  • Grow patience (I'm impatient so find it hard to think on long term achievements)
  • Depression management
    • Learn to articulate how I feel accurately
    • learn to articulate what I need accurately
    • LEARN WHAT I NEED
    • learn to stop overthinking/ruminating
    • learn to weather the storm of "emotional drop" until it passes
    • stop invading his privacy by reading his messages and learn to trust him.
    • recognise what my feelings are really about instead of picking unrelated arguments and emotional out pours.


    C: Things we both have to work on
    • Continue to communicate clearly along the way
    • Continue to rebuild trust
    • Recognising early warning signs of discomfort and/or depression
    • Accessing comfort and limitations.


    TIME FRAME

    We will work on these things for the next _____ months. We will reassess on progress to date on ______. If things are ____% along, we can extend the timeline. If no reasonable improvement or effort made, then we will _______.

    We access constantly.... Which may or may not be helpful. As it stands, anytime I have the feels, a conversation happens, it's less often with him, but he does the same. I've started to wonder if by dwelling and legitimising my irrationality, that I'm finding it harder to get past or quieten. I wonder if I should be gritting my teeth and baring through until it's enough to make the negativity disperse.


  • The only way I know of to stop over thinking and ruminating is to be decisive and stick to a plan that is laid out plain. So again... I encourage you to make it. If you are not seeing a counselor, you might consider it to help you form your plan and clarify your thoughts. As well as help you with the list of things you are supposed to work on. Everyone holds up their end of the stick.

    Yes, I need a plan. Forming one that will work is the difficulty and reminding myself of its existence in the depths is hard.

    Galagirl
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I see that you have started to articulate some of that plan.

I suggest you make an appointment with a counselor to help you finish the rest, check that it is realistic/reasonable for your situation, and then help hold yourself accountable to it.

You have a lot going on. It's ok to get more help.

Galagirl
 
Hello,
I just wanted to say I am really sorry for you lossing your orgasms. I don't have experience with it myself, but I heart it was possible after connecting orgasm with certain stimuli. I totally understand how it makes you angry and upset, I would be furious about the other girl too, perhaps with him for doing it and for letting me know, and maybe with myself for giving him this control over something so deeply MINE in the first place - I would feel like he misused the power exchange (rationally perhaps he didn't, if you didn't have the agreement in place, but that is kind of not the point when dealing with feelings). It sends a cold chill down my spine even just thinking about that situation.

I can't say I have first-hand advice on that situation, but perhaps a few ideas.
- It is perfectly fine, if you choose not to know details about their intimate lives, or personal details about her. Best friends or not, if it is more comfortable to know as little information as possible, go for it, he needn't share. You don't want to repeat the same mistake with other intimate and wonderful things.
- Regarding your sex life, please don't push yourself. Forget about the counting for awhile. Go back to other stimuli. Make yourself feel loved. Take time for the trust to come back, you cannot push it. And please, don't be afraid, it will all come back.
- Same with jelousy. I think it feels like kind of a shock, at least I experienced a situation like that, don't know if it is the same for you - something happened and then you go into a permanent state of alertness, it may take days to calm down but still any reminder of that situation (thus of your metamour) brings it back. I don't know if there is a technique to deal with it, probably giving it time, and perhaps exploring it cautiously with a calm head while you are in a safe place emotionally otherwise.

So sorry you must struggle with this, Tinwen
 
Tinwen said:
Hello,
I just wanted to say I am really sorry for you lossing your orgasms. I don't have experience with it myself, but I heart it was possible after connecting orgasm with certain stimuli. I totally understand how it makes you angry and upset, I would be furious about the other girl too, perhaps with him for doing it and for letting me know, and maybe with myself for giving him this control over something so deeply MINE in the first place - I would feel like he misused the power exchange (rationally perhaps he didn't, if you didn't have the agreement in place, but that is kind of not the point when dealing with feelings). It sends a cold chill down my spine even just thinking about that situation.
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Thank you xx it's been especially hard as I had my first orgasms with this man too. So he's given me a very special gift and then (irrationally) I feel he gave it away.

Tinwen said:
I can't say I have first-hand advice on that situation, but perhaps a few ideas.
- It is perfectly fine, if you choose not to know details about their intimate lives, or personal details about her. Best friends or not, if it is more comfortable to know as little information as possible, go for it, he needn't share. You don't want to repeat the same mistake with other intimate and wonderful things.
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I'm hoping to find out if that's the case. I was the one that made mention that we don't share this stuff anymore and that I missed that intimacy we shared. We're stepping slowly to see if bringing it back returns.

Tinwen said:
- Regarding your sex life, please don't push yourself. Forget about the counting for awhile. Go back to other stimuli. Make yourself feel loved. Take time for the trust to come back, you cannot push it. And please, don't be afraid, it will all come back.
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We have stopped completely. Any mention of my orgasming for him saw me fall in to sadness. Often sobbing. I couldn't bare having heart breaking orgasms so I told him he had to stop completely. And now I just have none. Which is also horribly sad. So I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't.

Tinwen said:
- Same with jelousy. I think it feels like kind of a shock, at least I experienced a situation like that, don't know if it is the same for you - something happened and then you go into a permanent state of alertness, it may take days to calm down but still any reminder of that situation (thus of your metamour) brings it back. I don't know if there is a technique to deal with it, probably giving it time, and perhaps exploring it cautiously with a calm head while you are in a safe place emotionally otherwise.

So sorry you must struggle with this, Tinwen
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I so hope this is true. I just want to feel rational and strong again xxxx
 
Harggy said:
TI couldn't bare having heart breaking orgasms so I told him he had to stop completely. And now I just have none. Which is also horribly sad. So I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't.
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The good news is that this is 100% within your ability to change. You have a golden opportunity here to start orienting yourself toward much more empowered and positive sexual experience of yourself and of yourself with others. There is so very much support and guidance for especially women who are looking to decide on their own sex-positive adventures. You have everywhere to go that is upward.
 
Harggy said:
We have stopped completely. Any mention of my orgasming for him saw me fall in to sadness. Often sobbing. I couldn't bare having heart breaking orgasms so I told him he had to stop completely. And now I just have none. Which is also horribly sad. So I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't.
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Working through sadness takes time, and one loss usually reminds us of other losses. For me it has been very hard to take a loss previously. If this is sadness, don't be afraid to stay with it - write about it, cry, draw a picture, give it a shape. Once you have expressed it, several times perhaps, you can go on (like "okay I don't have this now but I can do this new pleasant thing...").
As FallenAngelina says, after that you have different possibilities to work on your intimacy and sex life.
I also suggest asking yourself the question why you could orgasm "for him" and not "for yourself" (But please don't ruminate on it, if you just get cought in a loop. It is not your fault, you are a good person.).

You really made me think about some of my own issues and about feeling valued in a relationship. I am submissive and monogamish, we may be similar in some things. So what if we want to give in a relationship, give something very special and unique to us? Our intimacy, our submissivity, our hopes for the future, the status of our one and only partner? What if the other person doesn't want to give the same and doesn't demand the commitment we offer? If we demant the same from him, it is not a gift but a deal. If he doesn't accept our gift, we feel rejected. If he does accept, it may still feel kind of imbalanced. So it backfires with guilt in every case - are we stupid for giving in the first place?
I think what hurts here is viewing the situation as giving something that is the one and only, but him receiving it as if it was one of many. I'm not saying he does, but it may seem like this so easily... eh ... sorry for getting somewhat philosophical :) Good luck.
 
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Hello, is there anything new?
Did you show your partner the list of things to work on, that you completed above?
 
Harggy said:
Thank you xx it's been especially hard as I had my first orgasms with this man too. So he's given me a very special gift and then (irrationally) I feel he gave it away.
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You have connected your orgasms and sexual fulfillment to him, I suppose because he was the first one you ever came with, but really -- it's up to you. See, I never expect a guy to "give me" an orgasm. It's not his job, but mine. It's up to me to let him know what I want, how I like it, and to relax and get into the headspace to be able to orgasm.

Harggy said:
We have stopped completely. Any mention of my orgasming for him saw me fall in to sadness.
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Oh honey, women shouldn't have orgasms for anyone but themselves! Maybe you need to practice some self-loving, as in "sex for one." You really don't need anyone else to make you come.
 
nycindie said:
You have connected your orgasms and sexual fulfillment to him, I suppose because he was the first one you ever came with, but really -- it's up to you. See, I never expect a guy to "give me" an orgasm. It's not his job, but mine. It's up to me to let him know what I want, how I like it, and to relax and get into the headspace to be able to orgasm.


Oh honey, women shouldn't have orgasms for anyone but themselves! Maybe you need to practice some self-loving, as in "sex for one." You really don't need anyone else to make you come.
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Actually, it's kind of common in D/s relationships for the Dom to basically own the sub, give orders on how the sub spends their day (and night), own their bodies, their sex organs, and give or withhold permission to cum. This can get tricky though, if the relationship doesn't work out.

I have a good friend who was in a very long term Master/slave relationship. They had known each other since they met as college roommates, and eventually fell in love, lived together, finally got married, and had a collaring ceremony on the wedding night before the kinky wedding guests that remained for it.

After a year or so of being married, the Dom partner somehow went off the rails, and their relationship fell apart after 12 years! The sub partner had put their ability to orgasm under control of the Master, but the Master left without uncollaring, or giving permission to cum back to the sub. The sub had quite a time of it, left in the lurch without being given their power back. Eventually they just had to take it back, but it was a painful process.
 
Magdlyn said:
...the Master left without uncollaring, or giving permission to cum back to the sub. The sub had quite a time of it, left in the lurch without being given their power back. Eventually they just had to take it back, but it was a painful process.
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This is digusting from the "master". Erotic rituals like collaring are so powerfull. I wished all people attempting to be dominants would realize the full impact of the power exchange on the sub, and not forget it during the most difficult times (breakup).
Anyway, this story is encouraging, if we just take the point that no matter the amount of control given, you can always take it back on your own.
 
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