Forced to choose between my partners

[Eva]

Hi there forum land. I'm hoping to get some perspective on my situation. I'm a lesbian athlete.

I have dated my partner Sal for 3 years. We love each other and play elite netball together, on the same team. We met playing netball and live together and have a good relationship.

I met Mel 2 years ago, at a netball tournament interstate, and we hit it off. we started dating and she moved states, to play for my netball team (best in my country), but primarily to be with me. We have amazing sex, and I see her once a week. I love her and want to see her more often to build a life with her. i have limited how often i see her to accomodate Sal's needs.

Mel has recently met a new partner from another country, who she loves. she is considering moving to be in America for some time to be with this partner.

It has been difficult for Sal to accept Mel being in the same sporting club, and now team as her. We have been trying to make it work for some time. Finally, Sal voiced that she cannot date me if my partner is on the same netball team as her. She feels that it is a boundary for her and she would like to consent to her metamour being around, not be faced with it (at work) 4 times a week. To be with her, I would have to break up with Mel.

I have asked for space from both of them, but i am so stressed and don't know what to do. I love this netball team. We are some of the best in the world.

I have built a life with Sal. We have a home together and a deep love. But i don't know if I can break up with someone to be with her. Conversely I love Mel. She is someone who I want to explore my relationship with and spend more time with. I am worried she may move overseas to be with her new love. She is finding the conflict really hard.

Any advice on what to do would be great. I have 3 choices.
- be single
- Date Mel, and break up with my LT partner Sal
- Date Sal, and break up with my partner Mel who I love.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Dagferi]

There is a fourth option Sal could leave the netball team so she isn't triggered by Mels presence.

I do not put up with melodramatic displays of one partner trying to pull veto power over my other relationships or dictate when or how often I can see my other partner. So I would break things off with Sal.

 

[lunabunny]

Hi Eva (I'm in Australia also)

I might consider Dagferi's advice, except:

a.) You not only still love your (primary?) partner, Sal, a great deal, but have built a life with her AND work together, and...

b.) You really have no idea yet what Mel is going to decide to do about moving overseas, nor do you have much control over that decision.

Mel will choose one way or the other soon enough, most likely, then any decision may be moot.

IF she chooses to move overseas to be with her new partner, you'll have given up an otherwise great relationship for the sake of someone who has essentially put your needs and desire to be with her behind her own desire to be with their new person.

Has Mel expressed to you what her reasoning would be for doing that (moving away from you and towards someone else)? Does she consider this new love her "primary", because you (via Sal) have placed limits on the time you two can spend together... and she feels resentment or like she's not getting all her needs met by you? Or do you think she is simply in the throes of NRE and may regret her decision to move, if that's what she chooses.

That still leaves the conundrum with Sal. How do you feel about her ultimatum? Do you think she has a fair point, about not being able to deal with her metamour in close proximity so much of the time? Do you resent her for even asking such a thing? And if so, will that taint your on-going relationship with her, IF you decide to stay together (whether or not Mel leaves for America)?

Yes, Sal could leave the netball team, but I'm guessing this is unlikely to happen, nor the suggestion to go down well, since she is the one already established in the team structure (has longevity).

And, yes, you COULD break up with both in order to be free of all the drama and uncertainty on both sides... but a simultaneous double break-up will undoubtedly cause you much distress and will need to be thought through very carefully, and not just be a knee-jerk reaction because you're feeling pressured right now.

 

[opalescent]

Does Sal have any other partners? Does she consider herself polyamorous or non-monogamous?

If she doesn't - and you don't mention that so I'm going to assume she identifies as monogamous. Reading between the lines of your post, it appears that she isn't thrilled that you have other partners or want other partners. Is this accurate? Does she prefer you not have or want other partners?

If so, then you and she have some work to do, regardless of what is going on with Mel. Mel is a trigger, not the cause of this situation. You and Sal will have to discuss if she can truly tolerate you having other partners. If the only way she can do that is to limit what other partners can be to you (time, shared interests, etc.), that is not a long term solution. Setting what other people can be to a partner may work for a time but in the long run, it generally fails and can lead to much pain for all involved. People try this a lot - controlling others to manage their own feelings, and while it can work, it is harmful to all involved, IMHO. Sal will have to be willing to work on her own feelings and thoughts around non-monogamy - and that can be very difficult to face and to do. Can she get behind you being poly without being controlling of your other partners (and you)? Is she willing to do the emotional work? If she can, the Mel situation can be worked out. If she can't, you two have larger problems. You are not compatible (assuming you are not willing to be monogamous).

The question you have to face is not what to do about Mel. It's how much Sal is willing to do to become ok with you having other partners.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm not sure I understood that right. Let me repeat back in my own words, ok?

You, Sal, and Mel all work at the same place. You are all athletes on the same netball team.

Sal is your nesting partner. You have been together 3 years.
For the last 2 years, this has been a "V" model. You are the shared partner.
You see Mel once a week in a personal context.
You and Sal also see Mel at work 4x a week at netball. (Or just Sal does.)

Sal says she cannot keep dating you if Mel is on the same football team as her. If everyone is still on the same team, if you want to keep dating Sal, you have to break up with Mel.

If Mel and Sal are NOT on the same team, she would be more willing for Mel to be around more in her personal life. You could see her more than 1x a week.

So... Sal proposes this gets solved by...
1) Sal is going to quit this team and go be on another team?
2) Mel is expected to quit this team and go be on another team?

And all this might not matter anyway because Mel is thinking about moving to America to be with her other partner. So Mel might just end it with you in order to skip the conflicts with you and Sal in favor of putting her main focus on developing her relationship with her other partner.

Any advice on what to do would be great. I have 3 choices.
- be single
- Date Mel, and break up with my LT partner Sal
- Date Sal, and break up with my partner Mel who I love.

You could also do NOTHING. Let Mel and/or Sal figure out what they want to be doing first. But I don't suggest that passive way of going.

I think you could wish Mel well, and encourage her to move to America to be with her other partner. Because if you break up with Sal in order to be with Mel, that means either moving to America too or dealing with an LDR and neither of those is easy. You seem to want to simplify your life, not complicate it further.

Then you and Sal need to reassess. Is Sal actually up for polyamory? Or more like "putting up with it" for the last 2 years just to get to keep dating you? I get that you have been together for 3 years and are also nesting partners... but have you actually had these deeper talks?

If Sal doesn't really want to be doing poly and you do? That isn't something you want to give up?

Then you guys may have to part ways also because you were initially compatible but not deeply compatible.

It is not healthy for Sal to be doing stuff she really doesn't want to be doing. Like participate in a poly V model if that isn't something she is willing/able to do joyfully.

But going the other way -- it's also not healthy for you to do stuff you don't really want to be doing. Like participate in Closed/Monogamous relationship with Sal if that isn't something you are willing/able to do joyfully.

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Eva,

I'm inclined to second GalaGirl's advice; that is, break up with Mel to simplify things, as Mel is thinking about moving to America. Then, start to have some in-depth conversations with Sal about where she stands with polyamorous relationships. If she wants you to be monogamous with her, then, you'll need to think about whether you can (or want to) give up poly. And even if she says she doesn't mind poly, you have to consider that your future partners can be vetoed by her. Can you live with that?

Maybe netball teammates fall on the "messy list." People who are too close to you in some platonic way, to consider dating them. Maybe Mel is on Sal's messy list. If so, that's something you could know ahead of time in the future, so as to avoid that type of situation in the first place.

You do have a difficult situation to contend with. I don't envy you.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[vinsanity0]

I have to go with Dagfari on this. People don't just get to decide they suddenly have a boundary that was not there before. Also, Sal is not "triggered". She is simply jealous. So, yeah, if Sal is uncomfortable maybe she should leave the team. At the very least she could be open to something other than her ultimatum.

 

[HurtandConfused]

People don't just get to decide they suddenly have a boundary that was not there before.\

what if it was difficult to communicate it?


THere are some very un-compassionate responses here... there's always more than one side of the story...

Nothing is ever so simple, I thought this forum would deeply understand that?


I'd say the more important thing to you is, are you willing to WORK to make a relationship work (how ever it is configured) or not? if not then let it go, if you want to make it work, then give it your all.

Some things are simple, especially when it comes to giving.

 

[Ravenscroft]

there's always more than one side of the story...

Nothing is ever so simple, I thought this forum would deeply understand that?

Yes, that is something of which most people are aware.

We are ALSO aware that opportunity to gain input by one of the other affected individuals is very rare. Therefore, we usually try to accept that the poster is presenting us with the situation as they honestly see it (even if their interpretation might not be accurate).

THere are some very un-compassionate responses here

Upon rereading, I see that the responses are calm & clearly empathetic, from some of the most reasoned individuals on this site.

If YOU see otherwise, then it is up to YOU to point to to SPECIFIC examples where you feel that assessment to be incorrect.

 

[GalaGirl]

I have sympathy for Eva and her situation. And I think she's right.

Any advice on what to do would be great. I have 3 choices.
- be single
- Date Mel, and break up with my LT partner Sal
- Date Sal, and break up with my partner Mel who I love.

Those ARE her choices. I don't see any other ones.

In those shoes? I think the most loving and compassionate thing to do is to be ok ending things with Mel and wishing her well on her move to America. And then figure out if Sal is still compatible.

I'd say the more important thing to you is, are you willing to WORK to make a relationship work(how ever it is configured) or not? if not then let it go, if you want to make it work, then give it your all.

There is also the point where one HAS already given it their all, and it is STILL not enough to sustain things or "make them work out."

At that point the most compassionate thing to do is to become willing to let some things go. Work it out in that way.

To be compassionate is to be willing to do what is needed so people can heal the hurts. Sometimes staying together prolongs the hurting and doesn't bring anyone any healing.

I get that sometimes that is hard to hear and that sometimes it is hard to accept because one wants so much for it to work out well so the people can stay together.

But if people cannot be happy together despite trying everything else already? Then they could try being happy apart and on their own.

It's a solution that ends the suffering for the individuals.

Galagirl

 

[vinsanity0]

what if it was difficult to communicate it?

Then the person having the difficulty needs to own that.

THere are some very un-compassionate responses here... there's always more than one side of the story...

Nothing is ever so simple, I thought this forum would deeply understand that?


I'd say the more important thing to you is, are you willing to WORK to make a relationship work (how ever it is configured) or not? if not then let it go, if you want to make it work, then give it your all.

Some things are simple, especially when it comes to giving.

If a relationship requires a lot of work there is something wrong. I think the notion of "relationships need a lot of work" comes from monogamism. Get hooked up with the first person you are sexually interested in. It turns out you arent1 as compatible as you thought so now you struggle to make it work. Not my idea of a great relationship.

 

[Tinwen]

There has been a good point made, which is: Is it about netball and being together 4 times a week at work, or is it about being uncomfortable with polyamory in general?
I can see how it could be both. Like, maybe Sal is ok parallel-poly, but not so close with her meta. Or, she's not ok with parallel either, but not able to say so because that means loss.

If it's about netball and spending too much time together at work ... I think you could sit down all three of you and have the conversation about if any of you is willing to leave the team. Maybe Mel is going to America and than the issue is sorted. Maybe Sal can date you and not play on the same team. Find out. Or use these questions as a starting point to get to the root issues.

 

[vinsanity0]

There is another option. Treat netball as neutral territory. There you are just three teammates. Probably easier said then done, but it's workable.

 

[Eva]

update

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful advice. I'd like to provide an update and seek some more guidance.

I broke up with Mel which was incredibly hard, but the right decision. we had a big love, but i didn't have the same sense of long term compatibility with her as I do with Sal. We decided to try to be friends.

Sal understood i needed some space after the break up, but that i wanted to be with her. She saw me being friendly with Mel at training. Sal was upset i was distant from her, and friendly straight away with Mel. Sal broke up with me saying i didn't get it, and that i hadn't been there for her for a long time when she voiced her discomfort.

This was 2 months ago. I am incredibly sad, lonely. i am hoping to get back together with Sal.

She is distant and says she doesn't know what she wants. I'm waiting, and have apologised for taking so long to decide, and then being inconsiderate infront of her. we had agreements months ago around netball, and being considerate of space. i didn't do this when i was openly friendly with mel, and resenting sal. i no longer resent sal, but this was something i did feel.

I'm trying to think of a way to win Sal back. She must feel so rejected and i'm trying to find a way to let her know i want to commit to her, and be together again. that i'm re-evaluating poly and what that means to me. she says she is also thinking what poly means to her.

i guess i just wait until she wants to talk, if she ever does. she said she sees me hurting and cannot be my person. that i need to get through this on my own. she says she is angry and frustrated with me. we have hung out only once. she is distant, but nice. i asked her if she wants to get back together and she says she doesn't know. and that she wouldn't know where to start.

i'm having a hard time reading her and holding hope for a future together or perhaps letting go. it's been two months since we broke up. Sal has a lot going on including captaining the team, managing work and coaching. she says she hasn't given it time to think about.

i'm trying to respect her needs and give her space. we share a few texts etc. i want to sing her a song and win her back in a grand gesture, but i feel like that would crowd her. i want to commit to her for the rest of my life, but i don't want to scare her off.

any advice would be great. i want to be able to live my life for me. but all i can think about is winning her back. she says she thinks i am just lonely and i don't want her. but that is not true. i don't know how to convince her that it is her i want. i told her we should be closed for a while and work on things before be talk about poly / open in the future.

how do i know if she is still maybe keen? do i just keep being polite and hoping we reconnect? am i being crazy?

Thank you.

 

[FallenAngelina]

i want to be able to live my life for me. but all i can think about is winning her back.

The answer need not be either/or. You can have both.

You can never go wrong when you're joyfully focused on living life for yourself. That always brings about the best unfolding for everyone. When we are hyper focused on someone else for whatever reason, it doesn't bring happy or satisfying results for that person or for us because hyper focus is born of anxiety. Anxiety never takes us where we want go. Instead of directing so much worry and so many anxious thoughts toward what she may or may not be feeling and thinking, put more focus on what you find fulfilling and satisfying. You'll find that proceeding from a more centered, calm and fulfilled foundation will lead you to many more satisfying experiences in all of your relationships, this one included.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you struggle.

i'm having a hard time reading her and holding hope for a future together or perhaps letting go. it's been two months since we broke up. Sal has a lot going on including captaining the team, managing work and coaching. she says she hasn't given it time to think about.

You asked if she wants to get back together. The response is that she's not made time to think on that. I would leave it another month, and check in. And then after that? Let it go. Because she's aware you want to talk about getting back together. If she's had another month to gather thoughts and not putting any energy in that direction?

Then it is not "joyous yes" sounding. Let it go. Then YOU can do your grieving/healing.

If you guys get back together much later down? That's great. But getting back together too soon? Doesn't give either of you time to heal and gain some perspective and figure out what it is you really want from life. And living in limbo forever? Doesn't help you adjust to this new life any. You guys were together 3 years. I think giving it another month for the dust to settle isn't horrible. Then it is only "up in the air" a short while more.

any advice would be great. i want to be able to live my life for me. but all i can think about is winning her back.

Normal, since the break up is recent. Things haven't settled down yet.

she says she thinks i am just lonely and i don't want her. but that is not true. i don't know how to convince her that it is her i want.

You wait. And give her space. Give it another month, and then contact her and tell you you still want to be together in a committed way, and you want to talk about what poly/open might look like in future. Does she want that? And if she doesn't? You say thank you and let it go.

how do i know if she is still maybe keen? do i just keep being polite and hoping we reconnect? am i being crazy?

You do what she asks -- give her time and space. That shows respect and shows YOU are keen.

Could check in next month.

Could let both of you heal. Sounds like she's doing that by immersing herself in her work.

This would not be getting back together to the same old thing. This would be starting a whole NEW thing, just with a previous partner. What you can do in the meanwhile is think about what YOU want in your life, and if you guys get to have that conversation, see if she's still compatible for that because she wants those things too.

Galagirl

 

[MayDecember]

If I may, the Cliff Notes version. From Sal's perspective.

A new girlfriend enters both personally and professionally for you, without clear agreement from the old girlfriend.

The old girlfriend objects. The new girlfriend must go. Except the old girlfriend has to go first. While she is gone and resented, the new girlfriend gets public displays of affection.

That's how Sal feels. And those feelings are the facts for you to deal with. Notwithstanding your insistence Sal is "the One" for you. Your forever relationship.

She would be advised not to trust you. That's what you would say, if you were giving her advice. It doesn't have anything to do with polyamory.

When we bring a mistress on board, the wife and I sign a written agreement beforehand. It goes on the bedroom wall. It's pretty detailed, with a financial agreement because it requires running two households.

I am never leaving my wife because she was already the wife I would never leave before she made me the mistress offer. She was so confident in her position that she felt she could make me this offer, and that it would even enhance her position further (it did!). Such wisdom at such a young age.

What I did was put her in charge of mistresses and make it clear to them that the wife was #1. They meet. The wife has access to my cell phone, email, and I don't hide live calls coming in from either one. Everyone knows exactly what the rules are going in, and the wife is getting calls/texts every morning and night. Not surrupticiously, but with the "I love you" in plain sight.

Resentment is the acid that eats away relationships. Resentment is caused by any little thing not worked out, not clearly communicated in advance and carefully shepherded through the potential stormy mountain passes of poly relationships.

What you want her to believe is that you have a heirarchy like my wife and I do: where she is secure in her long-term position as #1. This is a real common structure worldwide historically and certain conventions seem to stand the test of time according to journal articles we've read up at our University here.

And one convention, again, is the "major" vs. "minor" wife, the Wife/Mistress or the wife/paramour(s) model, whatever it is. But it is clearly heirarchical, and not just in name. The first wife, the one Sal would be, is on the title to the house and land, the retirement account, all the probate money and property, life insurance and etc. That is how you give someone security, this is just a timeless convention. You don't have children to worry about but there are conventions that make a lot of sense there too.

A minor wife (that's SE Asia designation) or mistress (European tradition) or paramour(s) model worldwide would have much lesser or no property interest at all. A long term partner can be granted property in a Will of course or have it bought outright for them, but not without #1 approving of it. In this tradition. I don't see why lesbians can't successfully follow it. You can buy a house with your #1, make investments together for retirement too, right?

Diplomacy and tact in these things is of such great import, especially in public and I had a situation similar to yours I handled very differently.

My wife was meeting the mistress. It was our third over the years, the first two having gone great. I came with my wife to the meet, this is the protocol you would be following that puts the wife as #1. The mistress was insolent. Isn't it clear what my response has to be? I have to back my wife. Publicly, my God what an indiscretion to put the wife down before a mistress. You have to put your crass urges down in public and follow rank in order to have your cake and eat it too.

My wife even said to forgive her, geez she was pissed at the time although she held her cool. But I left with my wife. If you want a person to believe they are the one you are always going to come home to, then that's what you do. You never would need space from the #1. That is the port you come running to in the storm.

I do not wish to put blame on you here but rather to have you see from her angle she was pretty publicly humiliated and as far as she is concerned you broke up with her not vice-versa.

It is so hard to recover from that. In my case above the three of us still tried to patch things up but little miss muffett just proved too jealous of the wife's position and could not act appropriately. I eventually took a great vacation with the wife, airfare and hotels, rental vehicles and great restaurants on the mistress' money we had budgeted, lol.

So I think you have to focus on yourself and your character, your personal development here. Regardless of whether we choose poly or mono or whatever, it seems to me this absolute clarity of intent with all players is paramount.

It is certainly unclear to Sal. She doesn't just feel rejected. She WAS rejected, in favor of the #2, by diplomatic standards of tact.

So you've learned from that. I am not losing my wife by doing that. I believe you have lost yours. You can try stumbling on but trust is something that takes a very long time to earn and only moments to destroy.

Therefore you cannot expect this to happen, with anyone, not just Sal nor Mel now either for some time to come.

Yet, this too shall pass. Good luck to you.

 

[Magdlyn]

Hi Eva,

Would you mind clarifying where you and Sal stand on Open Relationship, or Polyamory, in general? All these months and it's still not clear.

Was there an agreement made, and boundaries set, at the beginning of your relationship with Sal to:

Have casual sex only, in "outside relationships?"
Both be poly?
You poly, her mono?
You poly, her doing casual sex?
Parallel poly or kitchen table poly?

It sounds like Sal was NEVER happy with you dating Mel, being in love with her, becoming entangled.

Did Sal ever have another partner, or is she mono?

Did Sal ever agree to polyamory, that is, joyfully consent?

Did you know you were poly before you started dating Sal, or was Mel the first one, and you "dropped the poly bomb" on Sal?

With the way things went with Mel, it sounds like Sal tried really hard, despite not being happy, to work around you having another romantic relationship. And you worked, and Mel worked, limiting your dates to once a week. Unfortunately for Sal, you and Mel also spent a lot of time playing ball together. I'm not sure if that is separate from the "job" you and Sal work at, and Mel works or worked at.

So, everyone was basically bending themselves into pretzels to try and make this work, despite resentments.

I guess you've moved out of your shared home with Sal at this point. Anymore more talk of Mel moving to the US to be with her long distance partner? Or is she still on the team, needing to be social with you and Sal despite all the breakups?

If I were Sal, I'd hesitate to take up with you again. I'm sure you're a great person, but you seem to be hardwired to be poly? And Sal isn't really on board with polyamory. It sounds like she wants a mono partner. And that's OK. You can and will move on and find new partners who are joyfully poly themselves. Not right away. But things will get better.

We can never fail if we are true to our authentic selves. You already know that, being lesbian in a hetero-centric world. (Just so you know, I am pansexual, and somewhat non-binary (using she pronoun) and my partner is a transgender female and also pansexual. We are both poly.) Now is the time to face it, you need to be true to your poly nature too. And Sal is being true to her need to heal and grieve and decide if she can ever (joyfully) BE poly, or BE WITH a poly person. Give her respect and time. And if she never wants to really talk it all out again, that will suck, and make closure for you harder, but you'll just have to find closure in other ways.

Dating is hard. It can be such a rollercoaster. sigh...

Starting a blog here is one way many of us vent our pains and joys, our progress and our stumbles, in the world of polyamory, dating, relationshipping, breakups, NRE and all the rest.