From Quartz... Politics and Polyamory

Good article -- more in-depth than many poly articles and I like the fact that the author (Olivia Goldhill) talks about both poly's successes and its failings -- without condemning poly for the usual stereotypes -- that poly people just can't commit and that sort of thing. I didn't agree with all of it, but that's okay. I'll quote some parts of it here and discuss the reactions I had as I went along.

Re:
"Polyamory is defined, very broadly, as 'ethical nonmonogamy:' essentially, anyone who dates multiple people at once, where all partners know and are comfortable with this."

Pretty accurate, although it should be added that in polyamory, there are emotional attachments. It's not just sexual.

Re:
"Couples who are in open relationships -- meaning they view each other as their primary partner but have sex with or date other people -- are considered polyamorous."

Hmmm, I've always heard that polyamory, while it has overlap with open relationships, is not necessarily the same thing. Again with poly you have emotional attachments, it's not just sexual. Maybe in Brooklyn the definitions are otherwise? Also I'm not sure about the primary partner thing, it seems to me that there is such a thing as a nonhierarchical open relationship. Though perhaps a hierarchy is more likely in an open relationship.

Re:
"The people we choose to have sex with, and how we treat our romantic partners, are not just personal choices, but political acts."

How does that relate to those of us who are not out as poly? It's not like our sex lives can come under public scrutiny.

Re:
"Today's polyamorists may not be rejecting conventional jobs or bourgeois consumption, but they are shifting fundamental structures of society simply by relating to each other differently."

So, changing the world just a little by changing my own little corner of the world? I guess I can see that.

Re:
"In contrast, those I spoke to in the polyamory dating scene said both men and women are expected to enjoy sex for its own sake, without judgement, and that the 'ghosting' and callous behavior so widespread in monogamous dating is practically unheard of in the polyamorous world."

Hmmm, I can recall at least one -- two I think -- threads on this site where ghosting is discussed, one where someone had ghosted on the OP, and one where the general merits of ghosting were considered. At least those two, probably more. In fact a quick forum search for "ghosting" in the body of a thread found 37 threads that contain the word. More to the point, Polyamory.com is no stranger to callous behavior in polyamorous dating, we regularly get people posting here who are in distress about the way they're being treated. Idyllic poly groups certainly exist, but many dysfunctional poly groups exist as well. Poly is not immune from that.

Still I appreciate that the author is making a point to cast polyamory in a largely positive light. We need that.

Re:
"There are still sexist hang-ups within polyamory. Though men and women are equally encouraged to enjoy sex, certain expectations differ widely; nearly every polyamorous woman I met identified as queer, whereas the men were mainly straight. And polyamory is certainly not a perfect preventative of societal sexism; I met several polyamorous men who mansplained or talked over their women partners."

Heh, there the author casts us in a relatively negative light. Which is fair. Polyamory is unconventional and as such will have a larger percentage of progressive people. But poly can have jerks in it, just like monogamy. It can have misconceptions and dysfunctions. Were it not so, this forum would be a lot less busy.

Re:
"There are various theories about the cause of polyamory's racial divide. Some of those I interviewed suggest it's far easier to be polyamorous if you're white and wealthy. Those already marginalized and persecuted due to their race or economic standing would understandably be less likely to take part in a relationship that's viewed as transgressive. Others believe it's because the polyamory community in the US was largely built by white founders, who reached out to others like them and didn't try to be more inclusive."

This is a good summary of that particular problem, I think. It should also be noted that there are people of color who are essentially poly in practice, but who don't actually identify as poly.

Re:
"Polyamory today is not an overtly political movement. But it is still radical -- quietly, personally, and apolitically."

Good way to sum it up (in my opinion).
 
Read this with an open mind. I don't know if I personally agree with everything in this and I can imagine people more practiced with Polyamory than me may have more to say.

https://qz.com/1501725/polyamorous-sex-is-the-most-quietly-revolutionary-political-weapon-in-the-united-states/

So saying, let the discussion commence!

Interestingly enough, my wife's boyfriend texted her about this article last night - which he stumbled across - as he really does not make it a point to "study poly".

It is an interesting, intelligent, reasonably fair, and somewhat lengthy article. It does appear to be reasonably accurate in its description of poly and the history of poly - as far as it goes, nothing really objectionable from that perspective. However, although a fairly nice article about poly, I don't really see that the author makes a conclusive connection between poly and politics. As the author points out, poly folks are generally not pushing for acceptance of poly by the government.

Al
 
Good article -- more in-depth than many poly articles and I like the fact that the author (Olivia Goldhill) talks about both poly's successes and its failings -- without condemning poly for the usual stereotypes -- that poly people just can't commit and that sort of thing. I didn't agree with all of it, but that's okay. I'll quote some parts of it here and discuss the reactions I had as I went along.

Nice review, Kevin!
 
This article brings up some of the topics that I struggle with, that I think many of us struggle with...

As a member of the "white majority" I have the privilege of being able to challenge societal norms even while identified with such "minorities" as being a bisexual and polyamorous female with few, if any, repercussions.

SO, when faced with the question of "lack of diversity" in poly communities...what is a "poor little rich girl" supposed to do...? (Whaa, whaa, poor me!) Do I have to become an "activist" in order to be an ethical person? (YES, to some degree, I think we do...to stand up and point out when a situation is unfair...I HAVE that freedom of speech, I need to fucking USE it....)

At the same time, I just want to be able to live my life the way I see fit without the interference of others - again, I can claim that right, and, because of my privilege, it will be respected by most. But, what of those that don't have that privilege?
 
Very interesting article, but maybe in too much of a hipster bubble? I don't know well any poly people who live in large cohesive long term "communes," or intentional communities, like the Chrysalis base in Brooklyn NY (a hipster area) on which the article depends for most of its information.

I did have 3 dates with a poly guy who lives in a nearby poly community here in Massachusetts, made up of about 30 homes. Each family has its own home, but they have a community building for communal meals. From what he told me, the houses have families of 1, 2 or 3 adults (some with minor children, some without). Not everyone lives with, or even near, all their lovers.

Oddly enough, even though he is living in a poly community, so you'd think he had his poly ethics all set, this guy didn't have clearance to look outside his V for a 3rd girlfriend: even though he thought it would be ok with her, it wasn't; and so despite his desire for dating me, one of his gfs soon vetoed me.:rolleyes::(:mad:

I have dated and met socially, poly people of color, black, Latino, Asian. My current bf is half Fijian. I don't seek out people of color, in a fetishistic way, I just don't care about skin color. I do find sometimes, cultural dating differences, especially with Asians. It seems some of these guys, despite IDing as poly, are looking for a mistress, a piece on the side, more of a play-partner than an actual poly partner. So it ends up feeling dates are more like booty calls than a real emotional respectful relationship. This one guy Ravi whom I am kinda sorta dating, doesn't keep in touch well at all in between dates. However, the Fijian is much more respectful. But then again, he's also half French Canadian... Canadians are so polite!

I met a guy on an airplane once, and we talked a lot. He was traveling to a tattoo convention with one of his gfs. He was Latino. His gf was sitting a couple rows back, and I offered to change seats, but he said he was fine sitting with and talking to me. I looked back at her and she smiled and waved.

He and this gf had a baby, who had stayed behind with his longer term gf, so they could have this trip unencumbered. He said he had 5 gfs and even more kids... I do think relationships can be more fluid in certain demographics than in the white world. Men get wanderlust and move on, there's a concept of baby daddies, and rejected gfs banding together and raising the same guy's kids together. With poly, the wandering guy doesn't have to be hated by his former gfs just for wanting variety, I guess. Also, he probably has to let go of the macho possessiveness and consent to his gfs seeing other lovers as well.

People of color are still considered "minorities" in this country, and our president isn't helping the population of people of color to grow. So any group for any interest, unless specifically for a certain "race" or ethnic group, or family group, is going to be majority white, at least for now.

That said, besides dating, I've met quite a few people of color who are poly.

I am also good friends with a transgender poly gay man. He is vegetarian, and at one point lived in a large house in the Boston area with about 5 adults, all vegetarian, all queer friendly, and 3 kids. The members were all poly. One of the women was black and she was the mom of the 3 black (or maybe biracial) kids. But like many communities, it takes just one bad apple to destroy the dynamic. One of the members was found to be pretty psycho, and they all decided to disband.

I also have met and/or dated lots of bi men. I think the idea that most poly men are straight more reflects on homophobia than fact. Back when I was more active on OK Cupid, guys would message me whose profile said they were straight, but they almost immediately would tell me they were actually bi, but didn't want to admit it publicly, because it reduced the interest of many straight women. But they told me they were bi because my profile said I was bi.

I remember one active straight poly female member we had here admitted to being turned off by bi men. Wouldn't date one. Grossed her out for some reason. So I think a lot of poly guys still feel they have to lie about their bi tendencies, to get dates with women. Perhaps it's different for younger men these days, in a less homophobic atmosphere. Poly is "cooler" than swinging. I know swinger parties still tend to be couple-centric, with supposedly straight men, bi women. But I know of one femmey guy who went to some swinger parties, who was followed to the men's room by supposedly straight swinger men, who propositioned him for sex, in private.

Also, I know gay men have a tradition of consenting to open relationships where either guy in a couple can seek sex outside the couple. Maybe these are usually one night stands of the anonymous booty call type, either using Grindr or going to a gay bar? But perhaps now that polyamory is becoming more mainstream, even gay men might become more poly, rather than just seeking hookups. I don't know. Understandably, gay men are going to seek male oriented social settings, and not come to a board like this often, with all the hetero type people we have here. So they are invisible to the poly community at large. That's my theory anyway.

Now, I admit I've never gone to poly group meetups. So, I'm just speaking from 10 years of poly experience, where I haven't been immersed in the poly community in self conscious meetups/munches, or group therapy type sessions, or poly speed dating, etc., etc. Just one person's opinion from their own personal viewpoint.
 
I took the article for what it is - one non-poly person's observation of a poly community. The author made some decent observations, though she was way off with the ghosting part. I also think she was injecting her own personal political agenda into the article instead of doing straight up reporting.
 
I'd agree this was a Non-Poly observation of a couple of poly communities.

I'd also say that there's been a spare of recent articles on how poly folks can teach the monogamous types a thing or two about relationships and communication and so forth, and this article had some of that.

However, we're all people, and we all screw up, and to greater or lesser extent we ARE all screw-ups, so we are still subject to some of the same messes that any normal person gets into, plus a bunch that come from being poly.
 
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