G'day

[jsimili]

Hi everyone,

I'm a 27 year old guy from the land down under. I'm single, so not in a poly relationship and to be honest I have no idea if I even want one. I heard about polyamory a few years back, and I love how much it forces me to think! Even if I never end up in a polyamorous relationship, or decide it's not for me, I still feel like I really want my ethics and the way I think about a relationship to be compatible with polyamory. It's almost as if being poly forces you to be really, really proficient at relationship skills, and I feel like those skills are valuable no matter what relationship you're in. I've just started reading the book "More Than Two" and it's given me so much to ponder!

Also, I have what may be a newbie question (maybe this isn't the right place to raise it though, so sorry). I'm really physically attracted to a close friend of mine, and she's told me honestly that she's attracted to me too. We've raised the possibility of being friends with benefits, but I'm concerned that if I start dating somebody they might be jealous and find it rather threatening that I have such a close friend who I have, or am, sleeping with regularly. I don't want to be placed in the position when I have to choose between a close friend and a romantic partner, as losing either one would feel terrible.

But something about this doesn't sit right with me, but I have no idea what it is.

Anyway, g'day all. I look forward to many stimulating discussions

 

[Nadya]

Hello and welcome!

You sound a lot like me ten years ago - that is when I started thinking about polyamory seriously. Also, thinking first, as a single person, not knowing if I'd ever be in a poly relationship. Anyway, I decided to subscribe to poly philosophy, and keep all my relationships open. For me, the ethical part of being poly was the appalling thing: open and honest communication about everything, especially one's emotions, including possible romantic/sexual feelings towards others than the current partner(s).

Also, I have what may be a newbie question (maybe this isn't the right place to raise it though, so sorry). I'm really physically attracted to a close friend of mine, and she's told me honestly that she's attracted to me too. We've raised the possibility of being friends with benefits, but I'm concerned that if I start dating somebody they might be jealous and find it rather threatening that I have such a close friend who I have, or am, sleeping with regularly. I don't want to be placed in the position when I have to choose between a close friend and a romantic partner, as losing either one would feel terrible.

The forum rules do not forbid raising questions in an intro thread, so no worry about that. You'll probably get more answers if you post it in the Poly Relationships Corner, though... just a hint for the future.

Your newbie question is a very interesting one - not one I've seen before on these forums.

If you decide to start a sexual relationship with your friend, I think it would be wise to have an agreement about the future of your friendship / FWB in case one of you starts dating - I suppose she is single, too. If you decide that the benefits part is over if one of you starts dating, your arrangement is still within the monogamous range. Then even a mono-minded new partner should be okay with this.

If a person is overly jealous about this friend because you have had sex with her - then that person is not partner material to you. Of course, having a FWB arrangement will make your dating pool slightly smaller - the most narrow-minded people won't be interested in you. Some people might find it disturbing that you have ever thought about these possibilities... even if you don't act on it at all.

If you decide to keep the option open to possibly continue your FWB arrangement after one of you starts dating, you have switched to the non-monogamous side. In that case your dating pool will be even smaller.

Whatever you choose, I advice you to be open and upfront about it with a possible future partner from the very beginning. In that way you might be able to find a person who is okay with your choices - and you hopefully won't end up needing to choose between a friend and a romantic partner. For me, personally - I'd always choose the person that did not make me choose.

But something about this doesn't sit right with me, but I have no idea what it is.

I hope my reply made sense to you... If you find out what is disturbing you with these thoughts, please share with us

 

[kdt26417]

Greetings jsimili,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

I've heard great things about "More Than Two;" you chose a good book to read.

Nadya gave a great answer to your question (about the potential FWB and then what happens if you start dating someone else and they get jealous). The only answer I could think of is, that's what can happen in a world where some people are inclined to be polyamorous, while others are inclined to be monogamous. There's bound to be some conflicts of interest at times.

I think your best policy would be to exercise complete honesty right from the beginning of any new relationship. If you start dating someone else, tell them about your FWB right from the first date. This way they can decide whether they're willing to date under those conditions, without having to become too deeply invested. Or you can cease the "benefits" with your FWB as soon as you start dating someone else -- if a monogamous life suits you better. In which case you should inform your FWB (right from the start) that things could go that way.

But I don't think there's any need to rush into anything. Read more of that book, and do some more thinking about what you want to shoot for in the way of relationships. In the meantime, Polyamory.com is here for you to help you get answers for your questions.

Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"

Notes:

There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!

Please read through the guidelines if you haven't already.

Note: You needn't read every reply to your posts, especially if someone posts in a disagreeable way. Given the size and scope of the site it's hard not to run into the occasional disagreeable person. Please contact the mods if you do (or if you see any spam), and you can block the person if you want.

If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.

Welcome aboard!

 

[jsimili]

Thanks for the kind welcoming!

For me, the ethical part of being poly was the appalling thing

Took me a second to realise you meant appealing!

If you decide to start a sexual relationship with your friend, I think it would be wise to have an agreement about the future of your friendship / FWB in case one of you starts dating - I suppose she is single, too. If you decide that the benefits part is over if one of you starts dating, your arrangement is still within the monogamous range.

We did discuss this, and it was to be the case that we'd go back to being just friends if one of us started dating. The worry is that it may become a source of tension/jealousy if we continue a friendship with a physical past, much like some people are jealous of their partner having close ties to an ex.

I hope my reply made sense to you... If you find out what is disturbing you with these thoughts, please share with us

Yeah, I'm still not totally sure. Maybe it's because I feel like I'm being limited by trying to protect the possible feelings of a partner who doesn't even exist in my life at this stage.

I think your best policy would be to exercise complete honesty right from the beginning of any new relationship. If you start dating someone else, tell them about your FWB right from the first date. This way they can decide whether they're willing to date under those conditions, without having to become too deeply invested. Or you can cease the "benefits" with your FWB as soon as you start dating someone else -- if a monogamous life suits you better. In which case you should inform your FWB (right from the start) that things could go that way.

Yeah, I'm going to be totally honest and I hadn't even thought about continuing the benefits while dating somebody else.

I guess I'm just concerned that it would scare off new partners, but it may well be as Nadya said that somebody who is too insecure to cope with my best friend and I having had a physical relationship is not somebody I'd be interested in. But it could easily be somebody that my friend would be interested in, so perhaps even the situation would flip.

I don't think I'd be able to discard a close friend for so many years simply to placate the jealousy of a new partner. I'd hope that my friend also feels the same way about me.

There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!

Thanks, I already am.

 

[Nadya]

Took me a second to realise you meant appealing!

I was tired when writing the above post. Tried to be extra careful with spelling... Anyway, glad you understood what I actually meant.

 

[Magdlyn]

Funny that you're thinking of this hypothetical person down the road when your good friend who you feel sexual towards is standing right in front of you. You're thinking of her as being a barrier towards a future commitment with someone else.

Didn't it occur to you your friend might be She? Sometimes, indeed often, love grows deeper when sex starts... just sayin.'

Anyway, I have seen that men in committed relationships, even a close FWB, do have trouble finding another woman to date and love. Women just have more to lose... they can get pregnant. It makes your dating pool smaller. Like the previous poster, I just assumed you'd continue shagging your FWB as you kept dating and hoping to find The One. I mean, what? The minute you go on a first date, you stop shagging the FWB, just in case this new person is The One? Usually they aren't The One. Then what? Go back to shagging the FWB until the next new girl comes along? Think this through!

Maybe the hypothetical new woman will be bi and get interested in your FWB... you never know.

In my case, I am in a committed r'ship with a woman (and I am a woman). We are both poly, bi or pansexual, and attractive, and we have no trouble finding men to date (generally we use online dating sites.) Oddly, men often think that my being with a woman makes me even more desirable, because their penises won't stop telling them dating me makes a threesome possible. No matter how often I tell them miss pixi and I date separately, the penises won't shut up with the threesome fantasy. Oy!

 

[kdt26417]

Re (from jsimili):

"I don't think I'd be able to discard a close friend for so many years simply to placate the jealousy of a new partner. I'd hope that my friend also feels the same way about me."

Right, even if you end the benefits part of that frienship, it seems only right to keep the friendship, and if someone you're dating doesn't even want you to be friends with that person anymore, then maybe that is someone that wouldn't be a good dating match for you.

@ Magdlyn ... a FWB might very well morph into a deeper emotional relationship, I hadn't thought of that. Lots of possibilities here.

 

[jsimili]

Thank you everyone for the greetings, and for the continued discussion!

Didn't it occur to you your friend might be She? Sometimes, indeed often, love grows deeper when sex starts... just sayin.'

I had considered it, but I find it unlikely. I think though that my friend might find it more likely, as she used to have quite the crush on me a few years back and I don't know if those feelings ever went away. Which brings up another issue with the FWB, I suppose, being that it may hurt her if she grows closer to me and then has to break things off. But she's an adult, she can take her own risks, right?

The minute you go on a first date, you stop shagging the FWB, just in case this new person is The One? Usually they aren't The One. Then what? Go back to shagging the FWB until the next new girl comes along? Think this through!

Hmm. I guess I'd assumed the FWB relationship would end, physically, at the point I became sexually active with somebody else. It might very well restart if that new relationship didn't go anywhere, but I hadn't thought that far ahead, you're right.

Maybe the hypothetical new woman will be bi and get interested in your FWB... you never know.

Well my friend is certainly bi, so that's possible I guess.

Right, even if you end the benefits part of that frienship, it seems only right to keep the friendship, and if someone you're dating doesn't even want you to be friends with that person anymore, then maybe that is someone that wouldn't be a good dating match for you.

Yeah you're right. But perhaps, though, it would be more subtle than that. Perhaps a girl I start dating might be mostly okay with it at the start, but as things get more serious start to feel threatened by my friend?

I've dated women who've been close friends with their ex, or even slept with their ex from time to time, and it's certainly makes me feel jealous. But I think that's my own insecurity or the insecurity that everyone tends to feel at the start of a relationship that's causing that jealousy, and I wouldn't try solve that by making a girl choose between me or her friend.

 

[kdt26417]

I think jealousy is something that everyone feels from time to time. It isn't necessarily our enemy, sometimes it alerts us to something important. But that doesn't mean we should always pander to our jealous feelings. If a girl you start dating is mostly okay with your other friendship at the start, but as things get more serious starts to feel threatened by your friend, I think that's where you draw the line and say, "Look, I'm not just going to sever that friendship. Please work through your jealousy or insecurity and let's find some other way you can get your needs met." At least that's my opinion ...

 

[jsimili]

I think jealousy is something that everyone feels from time to time. It isn't necessarily our enemy, sometimes it alerts us to something important. But that doesn't mean we should always pander to our jealous feelings.

Indeed, I think it all boils down to this. Obviously jealousy is unavoidable, so trying to avoid it at all costs is stupid. But that doesn't mean we should also ignore how our actions make other people feel. I guess the right course of action is somewhere in the middle.

So, somehow I need to figure out when we should pander to jealousy, and when we shouldn't.

Thanks again for your response

 

[Magdlyn]

We don't "make" others feel anything. People's feelings are their feelings, and they need to own them.

You can look at your own feelings of jealousy over various things in your life. Break down jealousy-- it's fear of loss, fear of loss of relationship, or loss of status (feeling important or valued).

Yes, your Friend with possible Benefits is a big girl, and she can own her feelings around you dumping her if you find someone you are actually in love with. But, you can be kind and not start something sexual with her when you know darn well she has or had (probably has) a crush on you, when you don't return those feelings. It's just rude to get her even more in love with you when you can't see returning the feelings.

OTOH, if you are really poly, and want to have a ongoing sexual relationship with Friend, even if you find someone else to date, make this all clear to all parties. Communicate, negotiate, make a plan, and revisit plan as needed. Don't leave anyone in the dark and not knowing where she stands.

 

[FallenAngelina]

I'm really physically attracted to a close friend of mine, and she's told me honestly that she's attracted to me too. We've raised the possibility of being friends with benefits, but I'm concerned that if I start dating somebody they might be jealous and find it rather threatening that I have such a close friend who I have, or am, sleeping with regularly. I don't want to be placed in the position when I have to choose between a close friend and a romantic partner, as losing either one would feel terrible.

But something about this doesn't sit right with me, but I have no idea what it is.

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. You're super attracted to your close friend, so why don't you call this a romantic love attachment? "Friends with benefits" implies that you do not see any potential for love to develop and that you're sleeping with this "friend" until someone with more romantic appeal comes along, hoping to have both women cool with the fact you're sleeping with both. "Polyamory" means "many loves" so unless you have genuine love for both women, you're not really in a polyamorous situation, you're just a young guy who wants to have sex with several women without either getting upset about it.

 

[jsimili]

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. You're super attracted to your close friend, so why don't you call this a romantic love attachment? "Friends with benefits" implies that you do not see any potential for love to develop and that you're sleeping with this "friend" until someone with more romantic appeal comes along, hoping to have both women cool with the fact you're sleeping with both. "Polyamory" means "many loves" so unless you have genuine love for both women, you're not really in a polyamorous situation, you're just a young guy who wants to have sex with several women without either getting upset about it.

I see the possibility of falling in love with my friend, but I just don't think we'd be right for each other.

I never said that I wanted to be in a polyamorous situation ever, or that I wanted to sleep with both concurrently. All I wanted to know was whether having a physical relationship with my friend now might make it difficult to maintain a nonphysical friendship afterwards if I start dating someone, due to the new woman I am dating possibly not being okay with my best friend and I having a sexual history.

 

[A2Poly]

Well, that depends on you and your friend.

There's not a we can tell you specifically except that it has been done before by other people (including my metamour and her other partner). But I've also seen it end badly for everyone involved. Long term I'm 'friendly' but not in regular contact with most of my ex-partners, but none of us were best freinds to start with.

So... Maybe? It depends.

 

[kdt26417]

Re (from jsimili):

"All I wanted to know was whether having a physical relationship with my friend now might make it difficult to maintain a nonphysical friendship afterwards if I start dating someone, due to the new woman I am dating possibly not being okay with my best friend and I having a sexual history."

Well, that seems simple enough. Yes, having a physical relationship with your friend now might make it difficult to maintain a nonphysical friendship afterwards if you start dating someone, due to the new woman you're dating possibly not being okay with you and your best friend having a sexual history. There's various ways you could respond, try to work around it, and/or improve your odds ... but that's the bottom line: Yes it could happen.

Me personally, I wouldn't want to date someone who gave me a bad time about a friendship with a former FWB. But that's kind of beside the point.

 

[Magdlyn]

Well, that seems simple enough. Yes, having a physical relationship with your friend now might make it difficult to maintain a nonphysical friendship afterwards if you start dating someone, due to the new woman you're dating possibly not being okay with you and your best friend having a sexual history.

I guess this is a consideration, but I really must advocate for your best friend's feelings. Especially if it's a lopsided thing, where she's in love with you, but you aren't in love with her, though you're horny enough right now to bang her.

How will she feel if/when you take up with someone else and want to stop the sex? I know this happens, and how she deals with it it all depends on how easy going your best friend is.

And how the new woman feels about your bff/ex-lover completely depends on how self confident she is! Personally, I don't get jealous of a new bf or gf's exes, since that all happened prior to us meeting. But some people do go nuts with jealousy over their new partner's ex(es). You probably shouldn't date those kinds of women!

 

[jsimili]

Me personally, I wouldn't want to date someone who gave me a bad time about a friendship with a former FWB. But that's kind of beside the point.

I don't know if that's beside the point. I think I agree with you. Which means, people who I would actually be interested in wouldn't really see any problem.

I guess this is a consideration, but I really must advocate for your best friend's feelings. Especially if it's a lopsided thing, where she's in love with you, but you aren't in love with her, though you're horny enough right now to bang her.

How will she feel if/when you take up with someone else and want to stop the sex? I know this happens, and how she deals with it it all depends on how easy going your best friend is.

I absolutely care about my friend's feelings, and this was my first concern. I'd never want to do anything to hurt her. But she's an adult, and I've been nothing but honest with her about how I feel, so she can choose whether she feels like I'm worth the risk of a broken heart or not, right?

 

[Magdlyn]

Well, we don't choose our feelings. She can choose whether she *thinks* the risk of a broken heart is worth some time getting to have sex with you, when you plan on cutting her off some time rather soon (however long it takes to find someone "better").

How do you think *you* will deal with the guilt when that time comes?

Let me tell you, I was that heartbreaker once. I had a guy who was in love with me, whereas I was delighted to have him as a friend (he was a lot of fun), and OK with having sex with him (he wasn't that great in bed) until a new guy came along. I did it to him 3 times. After the third time I shunted him off for someone new (who eventually became my husband), we fell out of touch. I felt really bad to have treated him that way. It's kinda douchebag behavior, I think. Granted I was only 17-19 at the time. Now? I wouldn't do that to anyone.

And yeah, knowing about him did cause jealousy in my (now ex) husband. But then, he was jealous of just about everyone I spoke to.

 

[JaneQSmythe]

And how the new woman feels about your bff/ex-lover completely depends on how self confident she is! Personally, I don't get jealous of a new bf or gf's exes, since that all happened prior to us meeting. But some people do go nuts with jealousy over their new partner's ex(es). You probably shouldn't date those kinds of women!

MrS has 2 real ex's - one that I think is adorable and one that I was jealous of. It all had to do with how they felt about me as the "new" GF. (I ended up sleeping with the adorable one and avoiding the other - who referred to me as MrS's "little friend" the first time we met - Grrr!.)

I don't know if that's beside the point. I think I agree with you. Which means, people who I would actually be interested in wouldn't really see any problem.


I absolutely care about my friend's feelings, and this was my first concern. I'd never want to do anything to hurt her. But she's an adult, and I've been nothing but honest with her about how I feel, so she can choose whether she feels like I'm worth the risk of a broken heart or not, right?

I agree that the people you would most be interested in wouldn't care - but they are theoretical people at this point. So we can't ask them.

Regarding your potential FWB. Theoretically, it is her choice. In practical terms though - I avoid relationships (or sex) with people that I view as being vulnerable - because I don't want to be the one that hurts them. A general life-view of "Don't Fuck Fragile" - someone who holds a flame for you that you don't return is fragile. Yes, she is an adult. And so are you. You don't have to fuck someone if you think it could cause them harm.

You are allowed to choose NOT to sleep with someone for whatever reason you want. To protect you, to protect them... or for no reason at all!

How do you think *you* will deal with the guilt when that time comes?

That, I think, is the real question.

You can only control your own words and actions. Other people feel what they feel or don't.

******************
Just my two cents -

For me:

I don't sleep with people that, I think, have feelings for me that I don't return. (Too much potential for harm.)

I don't form relationships with people that are upset by people that I have slept with IN THE PAST. (Too much potential for ongoing drama.)

I wouldn't form a relationship with people that object to my remaining friends with people that I may have had sex with. (I tend to fuck my friends so...what, I'm not supposed to have any friends?!)

Furthermore:

I would not have sex, or form a relationship, with anyone who expected me to STOP having sex with, or being in a relationship with, anyone that I am currently involved with.