Going from Swingers to Poly, plus BDSM. HELP!

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SweetScarlet

New member
Background: My husband and I have been swinging for almost 8 years, happily, with no issues. We usually have regular couples with whom we are close friends whom we sleep with usually together, but sometimes separately.

A few months ago we met this poly couple through a BDSM site (we're trying to get more into that as well, me especially), who are awesome, but they don't date as a couple. The male half started pursuing me on his own. I have been talking with my partner a bit about trying to find a Dom to play with, as my partner isn't really that interested in Domming me, and he seemed totally fine with this. I went on a few dates (including a really amazing play date) with Dom guy and we get along great and have really good chemistry and we are both excited about the possibilities of a casual D/s relationship. Dom Guy and my husband are friendly and have been in a handful of social situations together.

Unfortunately, my husband has changed his mind and decided that he is NOT ok with me seeing people on my own. As we've had such casual nonmonogamy in the past I am thrown for a loop, and I don't know where to go from here.
 
He feels left out because he doesn't get reciprocation in the form of your Dom's wife. It's the typical swinger mentality that everything has to be equal and nobody should ever be left out. It's this mentality that causes people to treat their spouses in the same manner that children treat their bicycles and toys, namely something to be lent out.
 
Could ask him where this is coming from and see if he is willing to explain what "we do not see others separately" solves for him.

  • Is it fear of the BDSM thing since he isn't into it?
  • Is it worry at seeing marks on your body put there by someone else that seem too rough?
  • Fear that he won't be there to protect you if it turns out to be an abusive Dom?
  • Something else?

Then you can see if it could be solved a different way so all feel safe enough.

Galagirl
 
GalaGirl, it's not (on the surface anyway) about the BDSM, except that he is feeling inadequate, that he isn't enough to satisfy me. I'm not sure how to proceed conversationally, as I need to reassure him, but I also want to pursue this. I don't know how to express my needs without hurting him.

Swinging has been something fun we enjoy together, that we both find erotic and enjoyable. We've always said if we found a couple with which we had the right chemistry that we might form a quad, so I know he's not opposed in theory to poly, but he feels it's a bit dangerous, especially for us each to have unconnected relationships.
 
Poly does not automatically mean team dating. Poly is about having multiple relationships and being open to love. Very different from swinging, because it allows for feelings and is not focused on sex. Poly usually does not succeed if partners always have to hook up together, unfortunately. It usually works best when people can pursue dating independently, and let any group dynamics form organically on their own without forcing anything.

Maybe you two could read the book Opening Up by Tristan Taormino together. She has a lot of checklists in there to help couples compromise and come up with boundaries that work for each person.
 
I'm not getting the type of response I need so I guess I need to be more specific.

I need help in how to address my partner's feelings of jealousy and reluctance to open our relationship in a new way, while still making my desires known. How do I reassure him, but also let him know that I DO want to have relationships with other people?

ETA GalaGirl, that link is helpful, thanks! Still need some tips on how to bring up my needs in a thoughtful way though.
 
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It is is hard to give you feedback on your way of saying it when I do not see what you are thinking of saying written out. If it were me? I would say...

"No, thank you. I do not agree to those new changes. I prefer the old way ... Seeing people together and separately.

Could you please be willing to explain? What need does seeing people together only solve? Maybe we could solve it another way so your need is met.

Do you need reassurance? What can I do to reassure you?"
​

There is nothing mean or hurtful there.

He already knows you want to see the dude. I think you could try to understand him and where he is coming from so you can problem solve to move it forward. But you are not a mind reader. He has to articulate if he wants to be understood.

In case it helps encourage him to articulate, more links. Read those together. See if that helps.

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/Jealousy_Updated_10-6-10.pdf

And if he has a hard time expressing needs maybe print and circle which needs those might be:

http://www.cnvc.org/Training/needs-inventory

Do you think he is stonewalling?

Galagirl
 
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SweetScarlet said:
Swinging has been something fun we enjoy together, that we both find erotic and enjoyable. We've always said if we found a couple with which we had the right chemistry that we might form a quad, so I know he's not opposed in theory to poly, but he feels it's a bit dangerous, especially for us each to have unconnected relationships.
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Seems that many couples cling to double dating because it offers the illusion that by physically being present, a person can assure that his partner will not cross any emotional boundaries, depriving him of his share of the love pie. Agreeing to separate dating opens up the Wild West of love.

Sounds to me that your husband is paralysed with fear over losing your love, SweetScarlet. Poly is about opening to love. BDSM and swinging models are very scripted and contained, roles assigned with (perceived) minimal emotional risk. One cerainly can blend BDSM and polyamory, but most BDSM in practice puts limits on romantic involvements. Both models are based on the same idea as monogamy: that romantic love is limited and that if one person gets more of your romantic love, another must get less. Both models are based on emotional monogamy. He is comforatable with these (perceived) limits on emotions, but now you are asking your husband to pry open his mind and heart to a very new (and often frightening) way of sharing not just your body but your heart. Polyamory is an entirely different way of viewing the world and holds that emotional monogamy is founded on the false premise that romantic love is a limited resource. It's important to know this clearly as you go forward amending the understandings in your marriage.

This forum is full to bursting with posts from one spouse lovingly wanting to help the other spouse open up to the idea that love can be shared without losing. Any time you open a realtionship to anything beyond scripted physical contact, you invite the possibility of love and so much of the unknown. Your husband fears that this unknown means losing you. I encourage you to take some time to really take this in, read much of the great advice in the many threads on this subject, perhaps read the book that nycindie recommends and only then talk more with your husband from a place of understanding. The more clarity you have yourself about this, the better your talks will go with your husband. Focusing on your own peace and clarity will go a very long way (far beyond what reassuring words can accomplish) in easing your husband's fear over losing you.
 
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Swinging is a huge step for many couples - any kind of non-monogamy is hard or threatening for most. Polyamory is an even bigger step, and one he's not at all used to and probably hasn't really thought about. It's quite normal and natural for him to be feeling as he does at this point. There's no point or benefit in telling him otherwise without being condescending and judgmental.

However, you may be able to educate him or ask him to read about poly. The usual "primer" is the book "The Ethical Slut" which addresses some of his issues. Perhaps with time and open discussion, he will understand that he's not losing you, just that you are growing. He has the opportunity to grow as well, if he chooses. He may not have considered that he will have opportunities with other women if he pursues them, but he will be starting from scratch, which can also be daunting, especially as you already have someone. Poly isn't about "balance" though, it's about individual pursuits of loving relationships - he may not see it that way, at least not yet.

Still, it may be too big a leap for him, in which case you'll have to decide if your wants are great enough to risk hurting or losing him.
 
Re (from SweetScarlet):
"I need help in how to address my partner's feelings of jealousy and reluctance to open our relationship in a new way, while still making my desires known. How do I reassure him, but also let him know that I *do* want to have relationships with other people?"
Click to expand...

"Honey, I need you to know that I do want relationships with other people. That doesn't mean I love or value you any less. I still love and value as much as ever. We have a special relationship that no other two people will ever share. You are not replaceable in my life."

You could then go on to explain that the D/s dynamic between you and Dom Guy is no different than if you and he shared an interest in hockey, or opera, or something else that your husband wasn't interested in. Sure that's something special that you and Dom Guy share, but there are also (I'm sure) many special things you and your husband share that wouldn't interest Dom Guy.

In poly, it's not about "which partner contributes the most," "which partner is the best," or "which partner will be chosen over the other partner." In poly, you want *both* (or however many) partners, you don't want to lose anyone. Each partner is unique and special in their own way, and brings their own unique offering to the table. Why just taste the joys of one kind of cuisine, when you can taste the joys of many kinds of cuisine? That's what it is to be poly.

Hopefully I have given you the type of response you specifically needed. If not, please try to clarify further and I'll also give it another go. At the same time, I think this thread is filled with good suggestions and food for thought. It's all worth a rereading.

Please continue the dialog with us and let us know how things are going; we'll continue trying to help as much as we can.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
SweetScarlet said:
... it's not (on the surface anyway) about the BDSM, except that he is feeling inadequate, that he isn't enough to satisfy me.
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I find that ironic, considering you two both have had multiple sexual partners for years! Obviously his dick, his kisses, his sex, weren't enough for you. If his sex was all you needed, you'd have had no need to swing.

I'm not sure how to proceed conversationally, as I need to reassure him, but I also want to pursue this. I don't know how to express my needs without hurting him.
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You can't prevent the hurt. Whenever a partner changes (and we all do grow and change in the course of our lifetimes) it can be uncomfortable to downright excruciating for the other partner. That's life. Nothing you can say will totally reassure him. You can do your best, but he has to adapt and that won't feel great for him. In fact, you both need to adapt, and get better at communicating and loving each other than ever before.

Swinging has been something fun we enjoy together, that we both find erotic and enjoyable. We've always said if we found a couple with which we had the right chemistry that we might form a quad, so I know he's not opposed in theory to poly, but he feels it's a bit dangerous, especially for us each to have unconnected relationships.
Click to expand...

Forming a quad that functions well for years, is extremely rare (as are longterm triads for unicorn hunters).

What does work better in poly is DATING INDEPENDENTLY. You've come to that pass now. You want to assert your right to the freedom to date separately, while still being as reassuring as possible to your husband that you still love him and desire him, despite your new Dom bf.

BTW, you say your relationship with your new Dom bf is and will remain, "casual," but there is no guarantee love type feelings won't develop. This is what polyamorists seek-- the love. Not just the sex, or the kink, or the power exchange. Now, BDSM requires a lot of trust and negotiations, and when it works, it's intensely pleasurable and dumps loads of wonderful euphoric feelings into the bloodstream. This can feel like love. It's quite common for a sub to intensely love her Dom Daddy, I know. You're in NRE too (new relationship energy).

Might be time to take a break, step back, do the reading, on here, books (More Than Two is the 3rd most recommended book here), poly websites, BDSM websites, and figure out some boundaries, scheduling, what to do if you do fall in love with Dom Daddy, etc., etc.

This is not Relationship 101. Swinging as a couple was a start. Now you're changing the game. Do the work. Then play.
 
Thanks everyone for your responses! There's some things I needed to hear.

He does not disagree with poly as a concept, but he has always stated it's "too much time and effort". Which I took as a matter of practicality rather than an emotional refusal, to my chagrin.
We have many close friends who are poly, or varying other forms of open relationships, and are not at all new to the concepts presented; but concepts in theory and concepts in practice are two different things.
My husband initially thought he would be fine with it, but in practice has found that the emotional aspect bothers him. I'm hoping he will agree to read some of the materials suggested together.

Most of this is moot for the moment anyway, as he is out of town for an extended period and I do not want to discuss it long distance.
I'm more than a little frustrated though since the original idea was that Dom Guy would be a great alternative while husband is away, and that is now off the table.
Also confusingly, I am allowed to sleep with our regular swinger couple while husband is away, with whom we are close friends, so I'm sure part of it is also he has a particular bias against Dom Guy, which complicates matters.
 
Well, I hope you are able to work out the Dom Guy issues when your husband gets back.

All you can do while he is out of town is continue to read and post ...
 
Magdlyn said:
It's quite common for a sub to intensely love her Dom Daddy, I know. You're in NRE too (new relationship energy).

Might be time to take a break, step back, do the reading, on here, books (More Than Two is the 3rd most recommended book here), poly websites, BDSM websites, and figure out some boundaries, scheduling, what to do if you do fall in love with Dom Daddy, etc., etc.

This is not Relationship 101. Swinging as a couple was a start. Now you're changing the game. Do the work. Then play.
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Magdlyn has summed it up well and your husband senses this, too, SweetScarlet. Not to get all yoga on you, but I'd say that despite all the talk, your husband knows full well the energy of this new relationship, which is very different than the energy around your swing partners. Poly in any form invites love and that is an enormous adjustment for a mono-romantic couple. I encourage you not to lay this at your husband's doorstep ("most of this is moot for the moment") and do a lot of quiet, internal work (as has wisely been suggested by several people here) while you have solitude in your home. I know that for me, when I sit in deep self-reflection, I find an awful lot of the very resistance and fear in myself that I so long to extricate from my partners. I try not to wait for others to change, for true and lasting change only comes from within. Changing me changes everything around me.
 
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A lot of good advice already.

My two cents-- it's possible that there may not be any magic words that will convince him to be okay with what you want. He may just not be able to get there.

If he can get to where he's not okay, but will begrudgingly agree to not stand in your way, is that enough? Or do you only want to do this if he finds peace with it?
 
Some thoughts from the male half of a co uple married for 20+ years and swinging for 3+ years -- and spouse that has recently fallen into a polyamorous relationship with another married guy.

This may provide you with some insights into what your husband might be feeling as I am struggling in a similar situation:
1. her new relationship makes me feel extremely sad. am i not enough for her? we have created a wonderful life together and can be considered very successful - we did this together. (we have 3 wonderful kids)
2. i have devoted my life to making her and the kids happy and secure (struggled at times but we both made our marriage work). now i feel that as i continue to bust my hump to provide emotional and financial security - she is falling in love with somebody else. I am having a hard time coming to grips with this.
3. i can't help but feel that i am devoted to her - and feel hurt when i read her messages to him that reads like "i wake up thinking of you", "i wish i can be by your side.." and hearing her play spotify playlists that she made just for him. I feel that she prefers to be with him instead of me.
4. she is communicatin openly about her new relationship, but its confusing for her. she tells me that they are just close friends, but i think she is falling in love. she tells me that there is no way that she would ever leave me for him as he is married and devoted to his wife. yet, i feel that i have already lost her. I can't help but feel sad that i am not good enough for her despite all my efforts to provide the best possible life for her. it feels unfair and i feel like withdrawing from my emotional commitment to her. I am envisioning that the likely outcome will not be good - and am preparing my fragile heart... a sad self-fulfilling prophecy.
 
monohubby said:
3. i can't help but feel that i am devoted to her - and feel hurt when i read her messages to him that reads like "i wake up thinking of you", "i wish i can be by your side.." and hearing her play spotify playlists that she made just for him. I feel that she prefers to be with him instead of me.
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No rule states that you need to be involved with this other relationship to this extent if it brings you pain. Respectfully allowing this whole thing to be known, but separate from your home life, is perfectly "poly-legal" and in fact possibly the best way forward. I, myself, would not want to be witness to my SO's personal messages. It would not only weird me out, it would feel disrespecfully intrusive on him and on my own life. I trust him to make good choices and that's as far as my involvement goes. We don't vet each other's partners or messages in the name of closeness and trust.

As for her preferring someone else, you've been around long enough to know that this feeling comes and goes. I've been married for 16 years and all of my married peers eventually develop crushes / fall in love with other people, most just are not open about it. The crushes/love feelings rarely come because things are missing in the marriage, but because that's just what eventually happens when a person is out in the world and open to life. Life is VERY long and getting longer for all of us. I think that the concept of marriage is changing, as we spend more and more (and more!) decades in one relationship, to allow for the very healthy continued interest in other human beings. Spouses used to spend one or two decades together, then one or the other would die, leaving the living to love again. Now we stay alive together for decades on end and the "ideal" that we save our true love for just one person is showing itself to be a pretty flawed premise. Allowing more love into a marriage does not automatically mean that the marriage is lacking. Quite the opposite, as I see it. A marriage that can allow for the partners to be fully functioning, loving individuals is a healthy marriage indeed.
 
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Chiming in

I'm fairly new on this forum and came here with my own issues involving my relationship moving from primarily one of a swinging couple to both of us being poly. We are still working on this very difficult transition. I was poly before my husband and we read several books(including the ones already suggested) on poly together to decide how it affected us. Now that the situation has changed we are re-reading them and readdressing the issues. Originally my husband didn't identify as being poly so we're hashing out those details now.

Anyway, if Dom Dude is sincere in his care for you and wanting a relationship of any kind he will understand your need to step back from him and re-engage with your husband to work out how this can work for both of you without any more pain than change can bring. Maybe having a plan or agreement in place will help reassure him. We wrote a relationship plan that we change and update as needed to help us clarify what we both want and need but also to act as a benchmark when things go wrong.

I empathize with both of you because I have been the spouse trying to convince and assure my husband that my being poly didn't diminish what he and I share at the being of our marriage. Now I am on the other side working through my own feelings of hurt and confusion because I'm faced with my husband discovering he is poly and figuring out how it changes our relationship. The circumstances for this last change were not handled well so we have added trust issues going on but the underlying issues is still me learning to accept the changes that come from my husband loving more than me. Mostly I'm struggling with the time issues since quality time is one of my main Love Languages.

Maybe stepping back and working through the issues and problems with your husband will help him accept what you need. Good luck.
 
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