Greetings and Other Problems (speaking up)

[vinsanity0]

I totally agree it was a red flag. One of many. That's not in dispute.

My thoughts are entirely on what (if anything) I should have said about it.

To answer your question, it's something that I would want to say to my metamour, because my metamour both created the scene AND is the person who would "suffer" as a result (by my refusing to travel with this person again if we were meeting our shared partner). The hinge should also be taking care of it (and in a way, Jon did, by pulling her aside for them to argue it out, away from me). And HE was embarrassed and bothered by the whole thing. Lora was completely unembarrassed and (as far as I could tell) felt her behavior was normal and acceptable. I'm wondering if making it clear to her directly that it was NOT normal or acceptable to me would have been worthwhile.

I don't think it was a red flag in your relationship with Jon. Which is what I think another poster mentioned.

Personally, I think it was ok for you to not say anything directly to her. I think she might have just looked at it as the two of you ganging up on her. It doesn't seem like much would have been accomplished.

 

[LizziE]

I don't think it was a red flag in your relationship with Jon. Which is what I think another poster mentioned.

Ah, I just read back, and you're right.

I agree with you, not a red flag in my relationship with Jon, but definitely a red flag about Lora/me having a relationship with Lora.

Jon can do as he wishes with Lora (or other people he dates). As long as a large amount of drama or disrespect doesn't follow him home, if following his heart brings some drama into his life, well, that's be his life. Though my impression (as I've said many times before) is that dating Lora and putting up with the things that dating Lora entailed was a unique circumstance, and not one that is likely to be repeated (thankfully).

What I keep ruminating on the most (and think will be a subject I ruminate on for years to come) is where those lines are between situations that you get involved in, that technically are more about the relationship that your partner has with a metamour. I'm getting the feeling that there will never be any hard and fast rules about it, but that there are certain variables that would make it more (or less) reasonable to get involved.

And mainly what I mean by "getting involved" is any kind of behavior on my end that would potentially either request a change in behavior in their relationship OR would mean that MY behavior changes, based on aspects of their relationship. Naturally, at the end of the day, we can all choose what we're going to do ourselves about any situation. I really feel strongly about making sure my choices are the best possible ones I can make for myself, but also ethical and not stepping on the boundaries of freedoms of someone else, for my own comfort.

 

[JaneQSmythe]

Oh, wow. Jeesh. I can't even imagine this situation...

If someone I knew reacted that way - I would assume that they were joking and "playing the role" of a petulant girlfriend and laughed and teased them about it. And if they were serious, I would never interact with them again voluntarily - I would ignore them entirely. No one I am friends with (let alone involved with) would act like that or tolerate such drama-creation out of a non-issue. (i.e. who gets greeted first at a function).

If I am forced to interact with someone (for instance, at work) who is prone to that sort of thing - I distance myself entirely and just stare at them in incomprehension and amazement when they spout off about random stuff - then get on with the business at hand. "Okay, aside from whatever-the-fuck-THAT-was, does anyone have anything to actually say on this subject? No. Okay, next order of business..." Paying attention to the attention-seekers only reinforces the behavior.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi LizziE,

Knowing what I know of Lora, I'm thinking she wouldn't have backed down if you had said anything ... more likely she would have escalated. Since you are at a wedding and the engaged couple should be the focus, you want to draw as little attention to yourself as possible. It isn't your job to try to correct Lora's behavior. If she's going to make a big scene, let her, and be far away from her when she does it.

I doubt anyone there besides Lora was concerned about whether Jon had said "Hi" to her. As I said, the thing to do is to keep the focus on the engaged couple as much as possible. I don't think this was a fire you could have put out. It had to burn itself out.

You could have said something about it in private with Lora and Jon well after the wedding. It's just that I doubt Lora is/was the kind of person who could be corrected/guided into good behavior. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I see it. I think she was always a runaway train.

Above all, it's not your job to fix Lora. It's not Jon's job either. Lora's all grown up now, and is 100% accountable for her own actions. No one else shares that accountability with her.

What should you have done differently? Maybe nothing. If anything, you might have suggested to Jon that he break up with Lora soon so that you wouldn't have to break up with him. But, then, you and Jon were both trying to give Lora the benefit of the doubt, based on what you knew so far at the time. Am I right?

What crazy behavior on Lora's part.
Regards,
Kevin T.

 

[LizziE]

I definitely wouldn't have said anything at the wedding, unless it was a spontaneous statement, which wouldn't have happened in this situation. It's more of a after-the-fact, if I dislike this behavior so much as to deliberately ensure that it doesn't happen again, then should I have also said something about it, like "because I don't like this, and don't want to deal with it, we're not traveling together anymore".

I think Lora was always a runaway train. I definitely don't think I could "change" her in the long-term. I know change always had to come within.

But to think about an alternate reality for a second, and to think upon the times that I did see Lora curb her own behavior, because it was a relatively small thing and in her best interest to do so, speaking up in this case could have (in theory) caused her to not pick a "you didn't greet me" fight with Jon, if the consequence was that doing so would stop her and I from traveling together.

I can't remember if I mentioned it here before, but one of Lora's many anxieties is travel. Even her daily commute is (supposedly) a big, draining deal to her, if she has to take public transit. On the days when Jon either wasn't working, or was starting later and/or ending work earlier than her, she ALWAYS asked him to pick her up/drive her around. If we had to go anywhere together, especially if it involved a bus that she's never taken before, or rarely took, she would get REALLY stressed if she had to navigate the bus herself.

So theoretically, in this particular instance, if she knew that a certain behavior was denying her the travel assistance that she wanted, she might have tamped it down, to get what she wanted.

But beyond that, there is a part of ME specifically that says to myself "Liz, if something bothers you this much, you should have said something about it, for YOU", which is the main place where this question comes from. I can talk about what it may have changed within our dynamic. I can wonder if calling Lora on her bullshit behavior more often would have made anything "better". I muse over if maybe - had I not been so lax and so willing to give her the benefit of the doubt - she and I would have stopped living together far sooner, which would have been much less stressful for me, certainly. Those are all things to think about.

But really, it's mainly about me and what would help me to feel happier and like I'm doing the right thing for myself, in the future.

 

[kdt26417]

That makes sense.