Had a foursome for the first time and it's been hard! Advice on processing new experiences & raising self-confidence in poly/swinger relationship

[polynewgirl08]

LONG POST WARNING TIA

Code names for ease:
-Sally (me - female nesting partner/primary)
-John (nesting partner/hinge)
-Ted (John’s boyfriend)
-Jane (Ted's new casual female relationship)

Relationship recap:
- John and Sally are primary partners/John and Ted are partners
- Ted and I are friends but are not dating each other
- Ted is free to date/form poly relationships with women
- John does not want a poly relationship with women (Ted's poly relationships or otherwise)/other men but has agreed we can engage in a casual, sexual manner with women/men (more swinger/ENM with women) that is not emotional/romantic.
- Sally (me) has the freedom to be poly with bisexual men or women, but currently doesn't have any connections. Therefore, I think I align more with being ENM/swinger and having casual, sexual connections with bisexual men or women. My connections do not have to be connected to John or Ted.

Hi everyone! I feel like I'm posting on here weekly, but greatly appreciate everyone's support and would love more advice/insight. This past weekend, John and I had Ted and his new connection Jane over to our house to introduce us to her.

There were no expectations but it moved to group play. John has never been with another woman while we’ve been together as I needed to work on getting comfortable with the idea, but made it clear over the 2 years we've been open that he doesn't have much interest in other women (meaning he doesn't push it or seek it out for us or him) making it clear that I am his main female attraction and doesn't want an additional girlfriend or solo sex with women. Essentially he would be able to be with another woman sexually with me or Ted involved because for him it's pleasurable to enhancing the kink/pushing sexual boundaries.

Anyway, I've gotten comfortable with the idea over the years and John checked in to consent before things got sexual as to whether it would be okay if he was intimate with Jane and Ted and all of us as Jane is bisexual. I said yes as I knew the truth was/is that John loved me and he wouldn't leave me for another man or woman and desired me more than any other woman.

One thing to call out is before any play occurred Ted mentioned to John that Jane was very insecure about herself. John, knowing that this is an intimidating situation for Jane as she has never met us, started being very, very complimentary of Jane. Touching her and expressing how beautiful she is and ultimately leading to the intimacy with her. John told me prior to this day that Jane wasn't his type and I knew the truth was I had nothing to worry about, but I think his overt friendliness with her, albeit in his mind was just to make Jane feel comfortable, made me feel less desired and deprioritized, maybe even a bit scared.

Jane and I kissed a bit and engaged sexually briefly, but I felt like she wasn't very interested in me and was receiving the attention from John and Ted. As Ted and I are friends, he and I weren't intimate while John and Jane could be and John and Ted could be. This is my first experience with a foursome and so I felt uncomfortable, unequal, and out of place.

While John started being fully intimate with Jane I had a moment where I experienced a feeling of discomfort and pulled away as this is my defense mechanism. John quickly spotted this and helped soothe me and reminded me of our connection and love which helped soothe me and continue with the night. John was with Jane very briefly and most of the night was spent with Jane and Ted together and John and I together.

After Jane and Ted went home, John and I reconnected and checked-in with each other. The reconnection was amazing as in that moment the scary part (him being with another woman) was over and I did feel like I knew nothing that changed for John. He still loved me and wanted me and I did feel a stronger connection to him, sitting in the truth that he's told me multiple times that no matter who either of us are with, man or woman, we will always be together and want to be together forever.

John also affirmed me that the sexual encounter he had with Jane was fine/unmemorable and his compliments to her were to help her feel more comfortable with all of us, not a desire to be with her more than casually. Interestingly, that's how I feel when I have been with other men or Ted, it's fine for me and increases the "kink" or "freedom" but it's nothing like the intimacy/sexual connection John and I have.

The day after Jane and I also had a chance to connect and she was so appreciative of the night and expressed her gratitude to both John and I. She was very complimentary of both of us and expressed that the experience changed her perspective on herself and her view of what she deserved in romantic relationships. It was very clear and is clear she doesn't want to steal John away from me and is very interested in being with Ted and with all of us again and that made me feel a lot better. Jane also lives in a different state so it is long distance for Ted.

Now that a few days have passed, I think the discomfort has still not left, unfortunately. I'm struggling because logically I know that John loves me and affirmed that and the situation for him was nothing special, but a fun experience. I know that Jane adores all of us which helps me realize that she did also desire me and I have nothing to fear. And I know that Ted supported me throughout the whole evening and after.

I'm frustrated because I keep overthinking John's actions towards Jane even though I know the truth of the situation which is everyone likes each other, no one is leaving their partners or trying to circumvent any relationships. After checking in with everyone from the night it seems like everyone is completely fine potentially because they have higher security in the situation and have experienced group play before and more experience in open situations/relationships, but I'm the one still struggling to reconcile my discomfort (call it fear/jealously/insecurity) with the truth.

I've been taking time to talk myself down from the ledge and try to self-soothe. I recognize the discomfort is emotion and probably feeling "left out" in group play because I didn't know where I fit or what to do as it was new for me, insecurity in myself, and monogamous programming. I wish I could’ve been more confident in myself and let myself have fun in the group setting and lean into the security of our relationship.

I'm also aware that because of my overthinking I unconsciously pull away from John without asking for what I need or reassurance as I want to feel desired and prioritized. My pulling away may make him upset and in turn makes me more anxious that he's feeling supported and connected in our relationship. I'm definitely working on keeping my personal work personal and not oversharing with him. He understands from our reconnection conversations that I was a bit uncomfortable, but I know the truth and want to be more confident in myself/our relationship and feel desired. I have not shared with him my continual processing as it is personal.

All to say, any advice on processing new experiences with or without your partner, reconciling fear from truth/self soothing, increasing self-confidence and self-security in your relationship, and growing from first experiences with seeing your partner with the same gender would be appreciated. If you've made it this far or have given me advice in the past I truly appreciate your support and this space space to get everything out.

 

[Magdlyn]

Wow, are you saying that Ted and Jane were coming over just for a friendly get-together, and yet somehow, Ted got the idea that he'd like to have a sexual foursome, and this wasn't discussed prior to your get-together at all, but just sprung on you?

It sounds like it was Ted's idea, and you and Jane weren't prepared for it, and needed a lot of reassurance afterwards. And John was very complimentary of Jane, and even though he was just trying to be nice, you still feel jealous.

And the whole thing just ended up mostly with each MF dyad just having sex with each other anyway. Maybe in the same room, so there was some exhibitionism/voyeurism?

Just because you're poly, there is NO reason to have any kind of group sex. In today's poly, group sex is not a requirement or an expectation. What you did was swinging. If you don't like swinging, don't do it. Don't let others coerce you into it. Personally, I much prefer the intimacy of one-on-one sex. I get off on different kinks. I've stopped even trying to have threesome or foursome sex. It's just not worth it to me.

If you did like it on some level, maybe you'll want to try again. Practice does make perfect. Group sex is complicated. When I've done it, sometimes it feels fun in the moment when hormones are high, but afterwards I've just felt sick and depressed and anxious.

 

[polynewgirl08]

Wow, are you saying that Ted and Jane were coming over just for a friendly get-together, and yet somehow, Ted got the idea that he'd like to have a sexual foursome, and this wasn't discussed prior to your get-together at all, but just sprung on you?

It sounds like it was Ted's idea, and you and Jane weren't prepared for it, and needed a lot of reassurance afterwards. And John was very complimentary of Jane, and even though he was just trying to be nice, you still feel jealous.

And the whole thing just ended up mostly with each MF dyad just having sex with each other anyway. Maybe in the same room, so there was some exhibitionism/voyeurism?

Just because you're poly, there is NO reason to have any kind of group sex. In today's poly, group sex is not a requirement or an expectation. What you did was swinging. If you don't like swinging, don't do it. Don't let others coerce you into it. Personally, I much prefer the intimacy of one-on-one sex. I get off on different kinks. I've stopped even trying to have threesome or foursome sex. It's just not worth it to me.

If you did like it on some level, maybe you'll want to try again. Practice does make perfect. Group sex is complicated. When I've done it, sometimes it feels fun in the moment when hormones are high, but afterwards I've just felt sick and depressed and anxious.

Hi Magdlyn,

Thank you for the fast reply! It was an interesting situation, for content John and I started in our open relationship as "swingers" but rarely played with other couples or individuals. We had one threesome with another man and that was it. We've had threesomes with Ted now that John and Ted are dating.

Ted did not have the idea for the foursome, but he had talked to Jane before coming over and she said she wanted all of us, but wasn't expecting anything. John and I were not expecting anything, but had it in the back of our mind that something may happen hence the consent check right before. John and Ted spoke while he was at the house before anything happened about consent and potential for play and then John and I had the consent check. So I do think that was a bit messy and if there is a next time we could all chat quickly before they come over.

I do think I enjoyed the group sex, but it was so new to me and I was jealous because of John's intimacy and compliments to Jane were new since it was to a woman. I've gotten comfortable with his intimacy and compliments to Ted and did work on my jealousy there.

I feel better knowing that practice can make perfect and group sex is complicated. I think if I had more of a connection with Jane I would feel better, but it was the first time all of us met. I do recognize I want to feel more confident in my desires and fully experience being desired in a group setting. I also understand that while confidence helps soothe fear/jealousy those emotions are normal and can still be present.

 

[Magdlyn]

Yeah, it might have been better to have just had a more casual non-sexual evening for y'all's first time meeting Jane. Dinner, maybe doing an activity, such as billiards or darts or cards or walking in a park, or whatever. At least get acquainted first. Just because Jane "wanted" you and John didn't mean you had to jump into immediately getting naked! You could've let things build a bit.

And there's no need that the next time these dyads meet you have to do sex again. Maybe do something less loaded a few more times so the sex will feel more natural, and the compliments less forced, more sincere (or less "necessary," just to reassure Jane).

 

[polynewgirl08]

Yeah, it might have been better to have just had a more casual non-sexual evening for y'all's first time meeting Jane. Dinner, maybe doing an activity, such as billiards or darts or cards or walking in a park, or whatever. At least get acquainted first. Just because Jane "wanted" you and John didn't mean you had to jump into immediately getting naked! You could've let things build a bit.

And there's no need that the next time these dyads meet you have to do sex again. Maybe do something less loaded a few more times so the sex will feel more natural, and the compliments less forced, more sincere (or less "necessary," just to reassure Jane).

This is VERY helpful and comforting. Thank you so much! I definitely agree and next time she's in town I'll advocate for a non-sexual evening if it happens and also to know nothing needs to happen again.

 

[GalaGirl]

I thought your goal from your last post was this:

I want to be less enmeshed and explore interests or even dates outside of John. I think getting more active socially will also help me feel free to live my life and prioritize what I like and want to get involved in. I think in our mono relationship things got comfortable and routine and I didn't make it so much of a point to go out and do things on my own, or see friends as often.

If your goal is to do more stuff apart from John, I don't see how doing a foursome with John, Ted, and Jane helps achieve the goal.

Group sex isn't a requirement in polyamory. You don't have to do it.

I'm not sure why meeting Jane couldn't just be dinner and a movie or games. Why did it have to be group sex? Where is the fire or emergency on that? It could have been talked out and set a date for group sex later on.

Or reduce the scope -- like clothed making out. Not naked sex. And have a safe word to opt out if it gets to be too much.

If those three wanted to experiment with that again, they could do it without you.

If you wanted to share group sex, you could do it with other people, not with John, Ted, or Jane in the mix. You never have to do it again with this group, or at all. Just because people want to, doesn't mean YOU have to want to share group sex.

In this experience, while Ted comforted and reassured you during the encounter, did it bug you that John was busy complimenting and comforting Jane and didn't compliment or comfort you DURING as much as you needed? Kind words came AFTERWARDS, but by that point you were already upset? Could this group sex scene have been better negotiated?

After checking in with everyone from the night it seems like everyone is completely fine potentially because they have higher security in the situation and have experienced group play before and more experience in open situations/relationships, but I'm the one still struggling to reconcile my discomfort (call it fear/jealously/insecurity) with the truth.

It sounds like those three have past group sex experience, and you don't, but everyone was comforting Jane more than you, rather than each person getting the comfort amount they needed. Or maybe you tried it out and found that you don't especially like group sex with these folks, or at all, right now?

This time, did you get enough notice from John that Ted and Jane were coming over? Or was that sprung on you last minute, like previous things were? Or you knew they were coming, but the group sex part was sprung on you last minute? Cuz that was a problem before.

I wonder if you might be trying to adjust to too many things at once. Maybe it's okay to deal with things one at a time.

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Sally,

Foursomes are complicated, due to the number of moving parts. You never know when someone is going to feel left out. In this case, you were the one who was left out. I'm sorry you had to experience that.

I see that you want to feel better about things. Maybe you even feel like you let everyone down by not being comfortable with the situation. These are your feelings, you can't always help how you feel. It is okay to tell John that you need reassurance before, during, and after. It is okay to think about what you would need, in order to feel more comfortable.

It is totally up to you if and when you want to be a part of a foursome again. You may find that you need a break from that for a while, you may even find that foursomes are not your cup of tea. And that is totally okay. Up to you.

Sympathetically,
Kevin T.

 

[Bobbi]

I'm frustrated because I keep overthinking John's actions towards Jane, even though I know the truth of the situation, which is everyone likes each other, no one is leaving their partners or trying to circumvent any relationships.

Are you trying to talk your feelings away? Reason with them? If so, that may be your problem. Feelings have to be felt to process. Feel the jealousy, feel the insecurity, Go feel them. Be alone and let yourself feel them fully. Cry, scream, and feel it. Let it out. It only takes about 90 seconds of fully feeling an emotion to resolve it. After, your actual rational thoughts will feel so much better.

I recognize the discomfort is emotion

Is it also possible your body is in fight or flight? Tight chest, heart beating in a way you are aware of, mind catastrophising and making feelings worse so you are trying to point your thoughts in a different direction in attempt to gain peace?

If so, you need to get your body out of fight or flight. Go outside and sprint as fast as you can til you cannot go any more. Or go into your room, lay on your bed and beat the shit out of it. You cannot get anywhere as long as your body is hijacked by your nervous system.

 

[polynewgirl08]

I thought your goal from your last post was this:



If your goal is to do more stuff apart from John, I don't see how doing a foursome with John, Ted, and Jane helps achieve the goal.

Group sex isn't a requirement in polyamory. You don't have to do it.

I'm not sure why meeting Jane couldn't just be dinner and a movie or games. Why did it have to be group sex? Where is the fire or emergency on that? It could have been talked out and set a date for group sex later on.

Or reduce the scope -- like clothed making out. Not naked sex. And have a safe word to opt out if it gets to be too much.

If those three wanted to experiment with that again, they could do it without you.

If you wanted to share group sex, you could do it with other people, not with John, Ted, or Jane in the mix. You never have to do it again with this group, or at all. Just because people want to, doesn't mean YOU have to want to share group sex.

In this experience, while Ted comforted and reassured you during the encounter, did it bug you that John was busy complimenting and comforting Jane and didn't compliment or comfort you DURING as much as you needed? Kind words came AFTERWARDS, but by that point you were already upset? Could this group sex scene have been better negotiated?



It sounds like those three have past group sex experience, and you don't, but everyone was comforting Jane more than you, rather than each person getting the comfort amount they needed. Or maybe you tried it out and found that you don't especially like group sex with these folks, or at all, right now?

This time, did you get enough notice from John that Ted and Jane were coming over? Or was that sprung on you last minute, like previous things were? Or you knew they were coming, but the group sex part was sprung on you last minute? Cuz that was a problem before.

I wonder if you might be trying to adjust to too many things at once. Maybe it's okay to deal with things one at a time.

Galagirl

Always so appreciative of your advice Galagirl!! I do think this was a bit of a messy misstep. It's good to know group sex isn't a requirement of poly. John and I briefly talked while Ted and Jane were over and I know consent conversations happened beforehand, but it wasn't fully discussed and next time I do agree I need more notice or time to process what my boundaries would be in the situation if it happens again.

By the time John and I talked about whether things were consensual and okay with me, we were in the thick of partying and looking back I would've been more comfortable with either kissing or maybe should've taken it off the table.

I think this goes back to enmeshment like you mentioned, I feel like because John and I have been together for so long I assume that things have to involve him, but in truth it doesn't. I don't have to play with him and Ted, or this group! This is helpful to hear for detangling.

I do think the group sex scene could have been better negotiated. As it was new for me, I wasn't even aware of what I would need from John, but I do think comfort and compliments DURING would've helped me feel better.

I did know ahead of time that Ted and Jane were coming over which is good step in the right direction. But now the issues comes up of group play and discussions around that before they are in the space so I can understand my boundaries and set the expectation.

I feel like I am DEFINITELY adjusting to so much at once. It's a bit dizzying and I am taking some time apart of John and Ted to go see my family for a week. Not that our relationship is over, but just to detangle a bit and reconnect with myself.

Overall, I want to do a better job of understanding my boundaries and having conversations around that well before situations arise

 

[polynewgirl08]

Are you trying to talk your feelings away? Reason with them? If so, that may be your problem. Feelings have to be felt to process. Feel the jealousy, feel the insecurity, Go feel them. Be alone and let yourself feel them fully. Cry, scream, and feel it. Let it out. It only takes about 90 seconds of fully feeling an emotion to resolve it. After, your actual rational thoughts will feel so much better.


Is it also possible your body is in fight or flight? Tight chest, heart beating in a way you are aware of, mind catastrophising and making feelings worse so you are trying to point your thoughts in a different direction in attempt to gain peace?

If so, you need to get your body out of fight or flight. Go outside and sprint as fast as you can til you cannot go any more. Or go into your room, lay on your bed and beat the shit out of it. You cannot get anywhere as long as your body is hijacked by your nervous system.

Hi Bobbi! Yes I definitely think I try to out-reason my feelings haha. I need to feel my feelings like you said and maybe understand what the best outlet for them is. Thankfully I don't feel like my body is fight or flight I think I have an issue with overthinking and anxiety/depression. I'm working with a poly friendly therapist regularly on all of these topics and she recommended meditation to ease the mind and not focus on the future or past, be present. Thank you for your insight and support

 

[polynewgirl08]

Hi Sally,

Foursomes are complicated, due to the number of moving parts. You never know when someone is going to feel left out. In this case, you were the one who was left out. I'm sorry you had to experience that.

I see that you want to feel better about things. Maybe you even feel like you let everyone down by not being comfortable with the situation. These are your feelings; you can't always help how you feel. It is okay to tell John that you need reassurance before, during, and after. It is okay to think about what you would need, in order to feel more comfortable.

It is totally up to you if and when you want to be a part of a foursome again. You may find that you need a break from that for a while. You may even find that foursomes are not your cup of tea. And that is totally okay. Up to you.

Sympathetically,
Kevin T.

Hi Kevin, thank you so much for your thoughts and support. It's reassuring to hear I can take my time, that foursomes are complicated, and that I have the power to decide what I'm comfortable with. I think I'm used to John taking the lead, and I trust him. BUT I also need to trust myself and know I have the power to create/be in situations I am comfortable with. I do feel like I let everyone down by not being as comfortable as them. This harkens back to my "people-pleasing," which I am working to move away from, and ensure my needs and voice are spoken and heard. This is hard for me, but I know it's necessary, especially in poly/swinger/ENM situations and relationships.

 

[Magdlyn]

Of course you wouldn't be as comfortable with foursome sex. They'd all done that before (maybe they're all swingers, or former swingers?), but you hadn't. Nobody is going to be a champ at something the first time they do it.

You mentioned upthread that they sprung the idea of group sex on you while y'all were "in the thick of partying." You must mean you told them you'd go along with this while you were under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs. In my experience, it's not a great idea to do anything related to dating new people while inebriated. You lose your inhibitions. You do things you shouldn't. You can make bad unhealthy choices. You might forget to use a condom or cause it to slip off.

So, especially since you are new to all of this, I'd say the group took advantage of your naivete and drunkenness and got you to do something you didn't really want to do.

 

[GalaGirl]

By the time John and I talked about whether things were consensual and okay with me, we were in the thick of partying and looking back I would've been more comfortable with either kissing or maybe should've taken it off the table.

Just to be clear, does "partying" include drinking or drugs? Drunk or high people cannot really consent. And that kind of thing can lead to poor choices.

I am concerned John and Ted took advantage of you and Jane. And even though Jane had a good time, that doesn't mean this was okay.

For you, you are too much of a people pleaser and too malleable. You didn't even know you could say NO to group sex and that it was not a requirement in polyamory.

We had one threesome with another man and that was it. We've had threesomes with Ted now that John and Ted are dating.

You don't have to be doing any of that group sex if you don't want any.

I think I'm used to John taking the lead, and I trust him.

I think you trust John too much.

I did know ahead of time that Ted and Jane were coming over, which is good step in the right direction. But now the issues come up of group play and discussions around that before they are in the space, so I can understand my boundaries and set the expectation.

I think you could set a personal boundary of "No. I don't do things on short notice, on impulse, or on the fly anymore. I also don't do things when drunk/high. I need at least 5 days notice and I automatically turn down anything that is less notice than that."

You don't really seem to have a clear sense of self or good personal boundaries. Going along with whatever John says/asks is not a good idea.

I think this goes back to enmeshment, like you mentioned, I feel like because John and I have been together for so long I assume that things have to involve him, but in truth it doesn't. I don't have to play with him and Ted, or this group! This is helpful to hear for detangling.

Maybe you want to take a look at www.coda.org along with a counselor.

I feel like I am DEFINITELY adjusting to so much at once.

But WHY do you have so much on your plate? Are you able to say, "No, thanks. I don't want to do that," to people, so there is LESS on your plate? You don't HAVE to be doing all this. Even just meeting Jane was optional. If John wanted to meet Jane, John could have done that without you.

Why do you have to care who else your metamour Ted dates? You don't have to know them, meet them, or be pals with them. You don't even have to know, meet, or hang out with TED, much less people further out from you.

It's a bit dizzying, and I am taking some time apart of John and Ted to go see my family for a week. Not that our relationship is over, but just to detangle a bit and reconnect with myself.

I think it's a good idea to take a break from all these folks and visit your family.

Overall, I want to do a better job of understanding my boundaries and having conversations around that well before situations arise.

I think those conversations could be with your counselor. Right now you are not good at telling John "No" and sticking with that. I think talking to John would just lead to John talking you OUT of improving your personal boundaries.

The problem with age gap relationships is that eventually the junior partner gets older and starts wanting to think for themselves. The senior partner might not like that and might prefer the junior partner docile and "easy to lead."

Galagirl

 

[polynewgirl08]

Thank you for that insight. You are right. If there is a next time, drugs and alcohol shouldn't be involved.

I do feel like I was pressured into making a choice I wasn't fully comfortable with. I think I need to sit with that now. I don't want to sacrifice my personal boundaries or what I am comfortable with. To Galagirl's point in her reply, I need to have better personal boundaries. Just because I trust John and Ted doesn't mean that I have to automatically go along with what they're comfortable with, or even be involved. I'm going to take some time to detangle and process to better understand my boundaries and personal needs.

Of course you wouldn't be as comfortable with foursome sex. They'd all done that before (maybe they're all swingers, or former swingers?), but you hadn't. Nobody is going to be a champ at something the first time they do it.

You mentioned upthread that they sprung the idea of group sex on you while y'all were "in the thick of partying." You must mean you told them you'd go along with this while you were under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs. In my experience, it's not a great idea to do anything related to dating new people while inebriated. You lose your inhibitions. You do things you shouldn't. You can make bad unhealthy choices. You might forget to use a condom or cause it to slip off.

So, especially since you are new to all of this, I'd say the group took advantage of your naivete and drunkenness and got you to do something you didn't really want to do.

 

[polynewgirl08]

Just to be clear... does "partying" include drinking or drugs? Because drunk or high people cannot really consent. And that kind of thing can lead to poor choices.

I am concerned John and Ted took advantage of you and Jane. And even though Jane had a good time, that doesn't mean this was ok.

For you? You are too people pleaser and too malleable and didn't even know you can say NO to group sex and it's not a requirement in polyamory.



I think you trust John too much.



I think you could set a personal boundary of "No. I don't do things on short notice, on impulse, or on the fly any more. I also don't do things when drunk/high."

You don't really seem to have a clear sense of self or good personal boundaries. Going along with whatever John says/asks is not a good idea.





Maybe you take a look at www.coda.org along with a counselor?



But WHY do you have so much on your plate? Are you able to say "No, thanks. I don't want to do that" to people so there is LESS on your plate?

Because you don't HAVE to be doing all this. Even just meeting Jane was optional. If John wanted to meet Jane? John could do that without you.

Why do you have to care who else your metamour Ted dates? You don't have to know them, meet them, or be pals with them. Because you don't even have know, meet, or hang out with TED much less people further out from you.



I think that's a good idea. Take a break from all these folks and visit your family.



I think those conversations could be with a counselor.

Cuz right now you are not good at telling John "No" and sticking with that. And I think talking to John would just lead to John talking you OUT of improving your personal boundaries.

Galagirl

That is a great point and you're right. I was under the influence of drugs and alcohol and was not able to consent. I trust John too much and now I do feel like I was pushed into a situation I could not consent for and wasn't fully comfortable with. I do think I have a past of co-dependency and will look into that resource, thank you.

I like that personal boundary you mentioned and want to implement that. I'm going to seriously take some time to understand my personal boundaries and sense of self.

You're absolutely right and I didn't realize this. I don't have to meet Jane or even hangout with Ted. This all goes back to people pleasing and enmeshment as well and I need recognize that I can and need to say no and John and Ted need to handle and respect my boundaries. If they can't or take it personally, I'm not in a healthy situation.

I will bring this up with my therapist. There are a lot of feelings that come with realizing this, but thank you for calling out the truth and providing advice. I think detangling and evaluating what I want and my boundaries will be a good first step. I want to be healthy on my own, have a good sense of self, and feel empowered to stick to my boundaries and sense of self.

 

[GalaGirl]

This all goes back to people pleasing and enmeshment, as well, and I need to recognize that I can and need to say no, and John and Ted need to handle and respect my boundaries. If they can't, or take it personally, I'm not in a healthy situation.

I will bring this up with my therapist.

I just wanted to lift that up to you again. I encourage you to talk to your therapists about ALL this stuff. I encourage you to evaluate if you are in a healthy situation. You say you trust John, but lately, his behaviors are... what?

• John gets humphy if you have dates on your own, so much so, that you quit dating on your side.
• Short notice from John on Ted being over here in the shared home and then John gets upset if you call him on it.
• John gets upset if you aren't all smiles when he returns from his first trip away with Ted and brings Ted to your home unannounced.
• Sounds like he pushes KTP on you, and if things don't go how he wants, or like his "ideal," he gets upset.
• He avoids things.
• Doom talk and saying he wants to dump you and Ted.
• Group sex with (John+ threesome guy) and then (John + Ted.) Did you even want those encounters, or was John leading you into stuff you don't really want and you were people pleasing?
• This situation with drinking and drugs and then Ted and John suggesting group sex to you and Jane, from the sky, when inhibitions are low and people cannot really consent. Did you even want group sex with 4 people? Sounds like no.

These behaviors inspire trust how? To me, they seem to erode whatever trust used to be there. Talk all this out with your counselor.

I want to be healthy on my own, have a good sense of self, and feel empowered to stick to my boundaries and sense of self.

If this is now an additional goal, along with doing more of your own things and being less enmeshed with John, you will have to learn to tell John "No, thanks" more often. Decline to participate in stuff.

There is NOTHING wrong with parallel poly.

From your posts, it sounds like you now have an individual therapist, that John also sees, and then a poly counselor too. You might rethink having the same counselor John sees for your individual therapy. You might prefer having a counselor of your own that is more separate from John.

Galagirl

 

[Tinwen]

I don't know about group sex, but there is something I call "intimacy hangover." (I think I stole it from Brene Brown's "vulnerability hangover," but I didn't realize that at first.) That's what happens when you open up too quickly with someone (not necessarily in a sexual setting).

It has happened to me when talking to a new therapist. Imagine you come to therapy wanting to work on big, intimate life topics. There is this person that you see for the very first time in your life. They ask something along the lines of "What would you like to work on in therapy?" You know they are professional, they are safe, so you open up and tell them about your big fears and intimate blocks. The session goes okay. Then you come home and feel totally sick to your stomach. You're overcome with shame. Did you really just tell THIS to someone you just met? This shame, it's hovering over you like a cloud... or a hangover. You just broke your own boundary without realizing there was one.

Now, maybe that's something very different from your experience, I just want to offer what resonated when I read that you just met her.