Harder than anticipated-- (he can date women, I can't date men)

U

Unglionam

New member
Me and my partner opend up our relationship half a year ago. We talked a lot about it and made clear what is fine and what not. A problem that arose, is that he had problems with me seeing other men. Nut even though I'm bi, I didn't wanted to be restricted in what gender I could date. We agree in our values and he didn't want to restrict me, so we agreed to try it out. He had some dates and intercourse with a few women and I was generally fine with it. Now I've had my first date where I actually slept with another man.

Now the problem is that he is super hurt and feeling shitty, even though he doesn't want to. It is very hard for him to handle this, and he struggles with feeling angry, anxious and hurt. Also it came up, that he had the feeling that I pushed him too much to agree to this.

I want to be there for him and help him to get through these feelings, because he is really important for me. Do you have some advice how to handle a situation like this?
 
I’ve dealt with similar feelings while also feeling guilty for feeling them. Something my therapist brought up that’s been helpful to consider is, “when I feel these feelings, what, in our relationship, am I not feeling fulfilled by?”

It’s important to ensure your partner’s needs inside of your relationship are met. I focus on my nesting partner rather than look for anything else because I have such little time to offer. Such little bonding time for one, let alone others.

We recently realized we were feeling complacent, so we found activities we could do together to re assert our bond and appreciation for each other. It has helped with my insecurities greatly.

Putting concerted effort into enjoying each other may help your partner feel better about your outside relationship. For him to FEEL your love and appreciation for HIM even though you have, as we call them, extracurriculars, I think would really help.

I hope this helps. I’m still working through things myself, so take my advice with a grain of salt, but it would at least be something to consider.
 
Lilith42 said:
My partner and I opened up our relationship half a year ago. We talked a lot about it and made clear what was fine and what was not. A problem that arose, is that he had problems with me seeing other men. Now, even though I'm bi, I didn't wanted to be restricted in what gender I could date. We agree in our values and he didn't want to restrict me, so we agreed to try it out. He had some dates and intercourse with a few women, and I was generally fine with it. Now I've had my first date where I actually slept with another man.

Now the problem is that he is super hurt and feeling shitty, even though he doesn't want to. It is very hard for him to handle this, and he struggles with feeling angry, anxious and hurt. Also it came up, that he had the feeling that I pushed him too much to agree to this.

I want to be there for him and help him to get through these feelings, because he is really important for me. Do you have some advice how to handle a situation like this?
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This is an extremely common problem that has been discussed here literally dozens of times, if not hundreds. You're not alone.

We have a term for it: the one-penis policy. You can do a search for that term in our search bar to find previous discussions and learn how men and women have struggled with it and come to a healthy agreement.

Basically, men in our culture believe they "own" the women they are dating or married to. Even though that's not legally true now, it was, for millennia, up until quite recently in human history. In some cultures, to this day, men can have multiple wives legally, while women can not have multiple husbands.

This began early in civilization, when people realized how sexual reproduction worked, and when men began to own property which they wanted to pass down to their own biological heirs, not to another man's children. So, they took ownership of women's sexuality, by force and by passing laws (that women had no say in, of course), so that women could be stoned to death for having sex with a man not her husband (or by having premarital sex of her own choosing).

Since this has been going on for so long (at least 5000 years), despite the struggle of feminists (of every gender), it's not changing very quickly. So polyamorous men, who are really committed to equality, must work and struggle deeply to get over this possessiveness and find pleasure in "their" women dating any gender of her choice, when in an ethically non-mono relationship. It's just absolutely a requirement.

Hopefully once your bf gets more of an understanding of why he feels this way, he will be able to let go of his fears. Those fears might be of loss, and/or of being seen as weak, "less than," "unmanly," a cuckold, etc.
 
Magdlyn said:
This is an extremely common problem that has been discussed here literally dozens of times, if not hundreds. You're not alone.

We have a term for it: the one-penis policy. You can do a search for that term in our search bar to find previous discussions and learn how men and women have struggled with it and come to a healthy agreement.

Basically, men in our culture believe they "own" the women they are dating or married to. Even though that's not legally true now, it was, for millennia, up until quite recently in human history. In some cultures, to this day, men can have multiple wives legally, while women can not have multiple husbands.

This began early in civilization, when people realized how sexual reproduction worked, and when men began to own property which they wanted to pass down to their own biological heirs, not to another man's children. So, they took ownership of women's sexuality, by force and by passing laws (that women had no say in, of course), so that women could be stoned to death for having sex with a man not her husband (or by having premarital sex of her own choosing).

Since this has been going on for so long (at least 5000 years), despite the struggle of feminists (of every gender), it's not changing very quickly. So polyamorous men, who are really committed to equality, must work and struggle deeply to get over this possessiveness and find pleasure in "their" women dating any gender of her choice, when in an ethically non-mono relationship. It's just absolutely a requirement.

Hopefully once your bf gets more of an understanding of why he feels this way, he will be able to let go of his fears. Those fears might be of loss, and/or of being seen as weak, "less than," "unmanly," a cuckold, etc.
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Thank you very much for the in-depth reply! But it is something we have talked about a lot. And he agrees that a one-penis-policy is misogynistic and a continuation of patriachal structures, which makes it even harder for him to have these feelings. I think maybe that is what my question is really about, how can I help him in overcoming this?
And maybe a bad on me, he was working on it, but I tried to rush things too much maybe.
Things he mentioned were also that it felt to him, that I ignored how he was feeling and even though he agreed, I should have known, how he felt (the backround to this, is that I felt like a safe space and someone who would understand him like nobody else and he had the feeling that this was broken by what I did)
 
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How did you rush things too much? He agreed to open. You are not a mind reader. You can only go by the info given.

He was dating and sharing sex on his side already/first, so what's wrong with you also exercising your option to date/share sex with other people?

I think that you help him to overcome this by encouraging him to work with a counselor and recognizing your own limits. You cannot be his counselor.

Maybe this will help him find someone:

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory
www.polyfriendly.org

While waiting for an appointment, or to try several out to see which counselor "clicks" for him, he could read the Jealousy Workbook by Labriola. She has some articles online too.

kathylabriola.com - UNMASKING THE GREEN-EYED MONSTER: MANAGING JEALOUSY IN OPEN RELATIONSHIPS

By Kathy Labriola, Counselor/Nurse JEALOUSY IN OPEN RELATIONSHIPS In my counseling practice, I work with many people who have chosen to have open relationships--to have more than one intimate sexual relationship. The biggest obstacle to creating successful and satisfying open relationships is
www.kathylabriola.com www.kathylabriola.com

Is it a fear of "I can't compete"? Like, he gets weird about men because he's got that same equipment, whereas with women, he doesn't even have the same equipment to compete with, so he doesn't stress?

Is it that he knows himself and how he thinks/feels because he lives inside his own body, so when he's the hinge with more than one partner he knows what's going on, but when YOU are the hinge he's not as sure, because he's never dealt with you as a hinge before?

Does stuff like this comes up?

kathylabriola.com - ARE YOU IN POLY HELL?

COMMON PITFALLS IN OPEN RELATIONSHIPS Many people who are in a primary relationship stumble into an outside relationship either by choice or by chance, and once involved, things can go beautifully or can go terribly awry. Here are some of the most common problems that develop and some ideas for
www.kathylabriola.com www.kathylabriola.com

Is it about managing his own NRE and dealing in yours?

Is it grief? Like, even though this was a wanted change, the "new normal" isn't totally here yet, and things feel uncertain, and he's grieving the loss of the "old normal" because he know what that was and it felt more stable? He didn't expect to grieve?

Some of the stuff is his stuff/his responsibility. Some of it is your stuff/your responsibility only. Some of it is "our shared stuff/our shared responsibility." Be clear on which parts are which. It is NOT all "your stuff." It is NOT all "our stuff." Some of his personal work to do is just on him because only he can do it.


I want to be there for him and help him to get through these feelings, because he is really important for me. Do you have some advice how to handle a situation like this?
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It's okay to be there for a partner in healthy, appropriate ways. It's another thing to "take over." Unasked for help is not helping. You could talk about what is and is not appropriate help, what are and are not reasonable and rational requests to make of you.

Like, you can't be his counselor. That's not appropriate.

You can give him a ride to the counselor and back, because a therapy session can leave one knackered and not up for driving. That could be appropriate help.

You could deal with getting groceries/making dinner so he doesn't have to do it and it frees up an hour for him to do online counseling in. That could be appropriate help.

Talk things out.

Galagirl
 
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Lilith42 said:
Now the problem is that he is super hurt and feeling shitty, even though he doesn't want to. It is very hard for him to handle this, and he struggles with feeling angry, anxious and hurt. Also it came up, that he had the feeling that I pushed him too much to agree to this.

I want to be there for him and help him to get through these feelings, because he is really important for me. Do you have some advice how to handle a situation like this?
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Let him.

Let him be in his feels about this. Stop trying to fix it for him. He is a grown ass adult who made decisions that led here and this is a natural part of the process.

Don't steal this part of his growth into normalising polyamory by trying coddle his feelings about it. Give him the courtesy of trusting that he will work through it.

Also, you're allowed to refute his lashing out by claiming things like you pushed him into agreeing. Tell him, no, you did not. It was a mutual decision and while that these feelings are a natural consequence but they can be worked through. Then let him.
 
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Hello Lilith42,

It sounds like your partner is imposing an OPP on you. Very unfair. I think he knows it, too. Ultimately his own emotional management is his responsibility. You might be able to help somewhat, maybe not telling him it's a man, just telling him it's a date, but if that doesn't help him then I think he is stuck with the responsibility of enduring/working with his own emotions.

Just some thoughts,
Kevin T.
 
Lilith42 said:
Me and my partner opend up our relationship half a year ago. We talked a lot about it and made clear what is fine and what not. A problem that arose is that he had problems with me seeing other men. Now, even though I'm bi, I didn't wanted to be restricted in what gender I could date. We agree in our values and he didn't want to restrict me, so we agreed to try it out. He had some dates and intercourse with a few women and I was generally fine with it. Now I've had my first date where I actually slept with another man.

Now the problem is that he is super hurt and feeling shitty, even though he doesn't want to be. It is very hard for him to handle this, and he struggles with feeling angry, anxious and hurt. Also it came up that he had the feeling that I pushed him too much to agree to this.

I want to be there for him and help him to get through these feelings, because he is really important for me. Do you have some advice how to handle a situation like this?
Click to expand...
Is he ok admitting that his feelings represent a double standard? Like, I get that wanting to be ok with something and actually feeling it are two different things, but like this is pretty standard toxic patriarchy at play and really ought to be addressed with therapy, not dating.

So... if he's not getting therapy about being raised in a patriarchal dynamic that taught him to think of women as prizes to be won and coveted, then he's basically just raw-dogging his way through the emotional work of de-programming himself of this mindset, and this is literally why we have therapy.

He should also make an account here and ask for support in not feeling shitty. He should be proud of the work he's done so far in trying to make sure you get to live your best, most fulfilled life. Feelings of jealousy are normal and come with the territory. There's nothing wrong with him, he's just a boy.

P.S. Respect to Lilith, first among women and the ultimate answer to the ultimate question.
 
Do you have some recommendations for videos or podcasts (or other materials), which explain why a one penis policy is a problem for equity? We are having this discussion more often lately and I would like to be able sometimes just to say: here watch this.
 
You let him work it out with his counselor. There's a point where you let him do his own research and let him be responsible for his own learning. You could say "You could Google that." You don't have to do his research for him. He's the one who wants to change his belief/feel better. So... how about letting him do the work?

Thank you very much for the in-depth reply! But it is something we have talked about a lot. And he agrees that a one-penis-policy is misogynistic and a continuation of patriachal structures, which makes it even harder for him to have these feelings.
Click to expand...

(Having this discussion more often lately and would like to be able sometimes just to say: here watch this)
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It's ok for you to be all talked out. Could not do circle conversations with him repeating the same things over and over. You could say "We've talked about this a lot already. I'm not up for more talks on this right now. I think talking to your counselor would be more productive."

It's ok for you to say "No, thanks. I don't agree to a one penis policy. I can date all genders I'm attracted to. You can date all genders you are attracted to." It is fair.

Galagirl
 
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Lilith42 said:
Do you have some recommendations for videos or podcasts (or other materials), which explain why a one penis policy is a problem for equity? We are having this discussion more often lately and I would like to be able sometimes just to say: Here, watch this.
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You said previously:

[This] is something we have talked about a lot. And he agrees that a one-penis-policy is misogynistic and a continuation of patriarchal structures, which makes it even harder for him to have these feelings. I think maybe that is what my question is really about-- how can I help him in overcoming this?
Click to expand...

He agrees that the patriarchy, which has created what we call toxic masculinity, has caused him to have these feelings. So he knows that his feelings are irrational. He understands that a OPP is wrong, with his head, but his gut/his heart/his fears, which are not rational, are a stronger voice. And to an extent, his fears may be somewhat reasonable. He may feel weak, like a cuckold. His friends, if they knew his wife slept with another guy, might think of him as weak, lacking in masculinity. Many men are not strong in their masculinity. It's a daily battle for them to present that strong front.

They don't realize, that in polyamory, being okay with "their" woman (or women) having sex with other men shows them to be more confident than ever. These men know what they bring to the relationship, that is is unique and desirable, and can stand up to the competition. I might call it "big dick energy," of a sort, even though it's not about dick size. heh. It's about self-worth.

And maybe it was my bad. He was working on it, but I tried to rush things too much, maybe.

Things he mentioned were also that it felt like to him that I ignored how he was feeling, and even though he agreed, I should have known how he felt. The background to this is that I felt like a safe space, someone who would understand him like nobody else, and he had the feeling that this was broken by what I did.
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There is no article, podcast or video that you provide that is going to magically convince him his OPP is wrong, and disrespectful of your rights. As others have said again and again, that knowing has to come from within him. But here's an article I easily googled by just plugging in "One penis policy polyamory" (which he could just as easily have done).

www.discoveringpolyamory.com

What is a One Penis Policy, And Why is it Bad? — Discovering Polyamory

There is a big difference between a woman choosing not to date other men and a One Penis Policy. And while it might sometimes seem like the line is grey, it's actually very clear. So let's take a look at the One Penis Policy. What is it, and, more importantly, what is it not?
www.discoveringpolyamory.com www.discoveringpolyamory.com

Also, he can look at our resource list in our Golden Nuggets section for much more info about polyamory, in general (books, a podcast), or articles on specific topics.

 
If actions and words aren't aligning, ignore the words because people don’t act against their actual motivations.

People can say they believe something or want to know more or whatever they want, but if nothing ever changes, stop listening. Sometimes people will say things just to get what they want.

There’s a really high correlation between people who announce their New Year’s resolutions and then quickly giving up. Folks who keep their resolutions private don’t experience as high a rate of failure, specifically so soon after the start date (iirc, feel free to google). One theory is essentially that talking about stuff feels good enough that it’s easy to trick ourselves into thinking we’ve put in plenty of effort and just stop there. It’s not a conscious thing, just a really common pitfall.

In the words of Gregory House, MD, “people lie,” but the weird truth is that it’s just as often to ourselves as to each other. “I agree; I can do this; I want that for you,” could all be lies that are fully believed by the speaker. (This is why I try not to blame people)

But really, time for partner to put up or shut up before someone better comes along and she decides she deserves it.
 
Just offering a bit of the other side here.

I take it that the partner is being honest. There is logic and there are emotions. They don't always click. Shit has to get sorted. Partner needs to do that.

And for the record, I think a OPP has all sorts of problems, comes from bad places, and connected side effects and so forth. In Poly, we might call it OPP/OVP, but there's another approach in keeping with having the Ps and Vs private- monogamy.

Maybe Partner isn't all that we have assigned. Perhaps, he is just actually more comfortable with monogamy. He made a mistake. If so, then, the relationship has some figuring to do. A result of that figuring could be to stop. It's a perfectly good option to opt-out and doing so is either's choice.
 
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