Having the Cake and Eating It Too?

[Flikker]

So as discussed elsewhere (and here) Roy and I have decided to open up our relationship of 20 years. Right now we're dating and playing the field but our long term goal is to settle down with someone(s). Too early to say how that will work out.

My question here though is... I have two really close friends that I want to tell about our new journey but I feel like I almost can't because of where they are in life. That if I tell them it will come across as bragging that I get my cake and I get to eat it too.

In one case, Chris (from my posts linked above), REALLY would love to be open/poly but he's been doing his homework with his husband (which probably should have been done sooner) and his husband is dead set against it.

In the other case, my other bestie "Joanne", is lamenting being single and has basically said she's jealous that I have Roy to come home to every night. That even at the worst times in our lives, or when fighting, or whatever, that we have each other.

So on one hand, one bestie is coupled and would (I think) be jealous of my ability to date/see people. On the other hand, my other bestie would be jealous (I think) of my ability to go home to Roy whenever I wanted.

Any advice?

I'll add a caveat, I think both of them are fully able to adult and handle it with dignity, grace, whatever. That said, I also don't plan to be OUT THERE with my dating/sex life. Roy and I haven't even gotten to "Second Date" with anyone let alone any sort of serious commitment and at least in Joanne's case I know I don't know all the dates she goes on...

I'm torn between honesty and brutal honesty? I guess? I'm not sure that's the best analogy though.

Thanks in advance.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm torn between honesty and brutal honesty? I guess? I'm not sure that's the best analogy though.

Let me ask you something... would these friends be part of your desired support system if something goes haywire and you need to air out with someone OTHER than Roy? Like if you get kinda serious with a new partner and then their is a break up or something? And you need some support?

My impression is that you are torn between (being "out" to your friends now so you have peace of mind about having support if needed) or (being "out" later down when you have a better handle on poly dating and living without real life support) in the meanwhile.

Is that it? If so? I've had poly friends in RL in these shoes. One of them wanted to keep it quiet, but then ended up divorced. And struggled way harder because he wasn't fully out to the people he wanted support from.

Another had broken up with a long term GF. And her spouse, while sympathetic, was gettting worn out from being her ONLY support. They weren't divorcing -- it was just he was worn out with is and she was still needing MORE help. And then she wasn't out to anyone but me but who she REALLY wanted support from was her sister and mom but they hadn't known there was a long term GF.

So maybe as you venture forward with Roy... could figuring out your support people could be part of the process? Cuz smack in the middle of a hard time is not the time to start making your support system. Right?

Galagirl

 

[Flikker]

My impression is that you are torn between (being "out" to your friends now so you have peace of mind about having support if needed) or (being "out" later down when you have a better handle on poly dating and living without real life support) in the meanwhile.

Honestly, I hadn't even considered that side of the equation... Now I've got two things to worry about.

I was thinking about it more in terms of "My parents can afford to buy me all the cool toys and I know your parents can't and I don't want to make you jealous" kind of way. If that makes any sense...

<ponder>

 

[GalaGirl]

Thank you for clarifying what you meant.

I think you could be more detached. Not like you do not care about your friends at all. But let their stuff be their stuff. They are responsible for their emotional management. Not you.

Sounds like you just want to share about your current life -- which is fine. You aren't out to get them or being mean to them or something.

Their feelings about your news? Are their feelings. They are not your job to manage. Cuz if it WAS?

I was thinking about it more in terms of "My parents can afford to buy me all the cool toys and I know your parents can't and I don't want to make you jealous" kind of way. If that makes any sense...

Well, if you can "make" them jealous?

*poof* You can "make" them happy again. Non-problem. Right?

Don't "shrink" yourself because you worry about other people handling it. If you are already friends? And you want to tell them you and Roy are now in an Open relationship? Tell them and assume they can deal with you being authentic you.

Galagirl

 

[WhatHappened]

Roy and I have decided to open up our relationship of 20 years. Right now we're dating and playing the field but our long term goal is to settle down with someone(s).

Can you explain this part?

You once 'settled down' with Roy and he with you. But now you'd each like to 'settle down with' other people...yet remain with each other?

Once you've settled down with these new (theoretical) people, will you then look to play the field a third time, and settle down a third time? I suppose what I'm trying to understand is that you apparently want BOTH to play the field AND to settle down with someone.


I think you would help yourself AND any interactions with these two friends, if you understood what it is you and Roy really want, why you want to play the field when you're already settled down, with the goal of eventually settling down.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Flikker,

My suggestion is to let things develop naturally; that is, tell Chris and/or Joanne if/when it comes up in a conversation. And when it does come up, don't make a big deal out of it, just say something simple like, "I should mention, Roy and I have an open relationship at this time." Chris and Joanne both have to work through their own problems in life, they can always ask for advice, possibly from a counselor. So don't try to rub it in, at the same time don't make it a big secret. You want to be honest with your friends; be honest.

Hope that helps,
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[sdguitarguy]

Com'on out!

Two things I would suggest. First, start with coming out to one person, the one you feel most comfortable with.

Second, you may find that explaining what's going on is harder than you think. Do some reading on More Than Two or some equivalent site because (hopefully) your friend will have some questions that you didn't expect. I suggested More Than Two because there are some good essays in small bite sized chunks from a variety of different perspectives.

 

[Magdlyn]

I'm out as poly to all my friends.

K and T are two single friends of mine. T is male, gay, divorced, working hard in post grad college full time, plus working part time. K is female, lesbian (or maybe bi but isn't that drawn to men), working full time and doing political activism part time.

Both of them are also great friends with my long term (female) partner. Both of them ask me questions about my bfs, or if I don't have one, my dating partners. They are both envious of my dates. It's quite obvious. But they ask me about my dates anyway! Because I think they get some vicarious pleasure out of hearing about the dates and the men I date. But both of them acknowledge they don't make time to date, and the dates they do occasionally have aren't with people who are really right for them.

Anyway, my point is, I don't hide who I am from my friends just to avoid them having "feels" about my dating life. If it makes them too envious, they could stop asking me questions. The other day K was asking me and my gf if we might want to get together with her and a mutual acquaintance. I told her my partner Pixi was going to her bf's place for the weekend, and I had a first date with a new guy. She could have left it at that. But after my date, she asked me how it went. Her choice. She did act a little envious. But hey, that's her problem. I work hard at meeting new people. She doesn't. Not that she's a hermit, she's very outgoing. But she isn't putting out the kind of vibe to let people know she's interested in romance. Her problem, not mine.

And T, well, he's up to his ears in schoolwork and knows he barely has time to occasionally see old platonic friends, much less make new friends, and date, and have sex. Prior to going back to school, he was married (and poly), and after his divorce, he did date too, but now he wants to better himself and make more money so he can afford to adopt a child. That's his priority. Will he be able to date and find a partner or partners once his career is established and he adopts a kid? Time will tell.

I have other friends who I am out to, that I could also describe, who aren't satisfied with their romantic arrangements, and ask me questions about mine... but 2 is enough of an example.

If your besties are that jealous of your superior relationship skills (or motivations and energy and time to put into it) they can drop you and find other friends who also can't make their dating dreams come true. Or work on making themselves more attractive, or whatever they need to do. Just being jealous of you and causing you discomfort by comparing your "good luck" to their "back luck" isn't doing anyone any favors.

 

[Flikker]

So... Life went a little haywire for a while. Getting over a REALLY nasty case of pharyngitis which had me doubting the will to live for the past week or so.

A lot of good thoughts in the responses here. Some thoughts back.

Don't "shrink" yourself because you worry about other people handling it.

That's totally rational.

I wish it was easy. Chris I'm not so worried about. He "gets" poly but I JUST spent tonight talking Joanne back off a ledge because she can't seem to ever find the right man. She's overworked, underpaid, under laid, lonely (beyond friends) and so on. When I tried, as subtly as I could, to say that finding a person doesn't equal happiness. That Roy and I fight, there are times we don't like each other, that there are good times AND bad times she was still jealous. So I feel weird saying to her "I already have Roy AND I'm looking for more. Even knowing you don't even have one."

That said, yes I know that is ultimately on her how she handles it.

Roy and I have decided to open up our relationship of 20 years. Right now we're dating and playing the field but our long term goal is to settle down with someone(s).

Can you explain this part?

Sure. Basically... Just like a single mono oriented person might plan to get married, have 2.5 children, a dog, a cat and a white picket fence we would love to settle down into something in the realm of poly fidelity. We also know that isn't a snap your fingers and it happens kind of thing though. So right now we're looking at dating both romantically and "play dates" of a more "just sex" nature. In general we are trying things out.

You once 'settled down' with Roy and he with you. But now you'd each like to 'settle down with' other people...yet remain with each other?

Possibly. We have no idea what the shape of our polycule will end up being but we want something stable. Each of us might be dating someone, we might settle into a closed triad with one other person. We might have a lot of friends with benefits. Etc. But right NOW in the present we have each other to rely on.

Once you've settled down with these new (theoretical) people, will you then look to play the field a third time, and settle down a third time?

We've talked about that and the short answer is I don't know. If we settle down into a stable triad then that new arrangement will not be the same as our current one so it would require the input and agreement of all the folks involved in the triad. We've been referring to that as the Event Horizon beyond which we cannot see. (If only because we're geeks)

I suppose what I'm trying to understand is that you apparently want BOTH to play the field AND to settle down with someone.

If you don't date you can't find the right long term partner(s). So... yes. Both. Play the field for a while, see what happens, who we meet, how those relationships develop and so on.

Two things I would suggest. First, start with coming out to one person, the one you feel most comfortable with. Second, you may find that explaining what's going on is harder than you think. Do some reading on More Than Two

Is it silly of me to assume that it would be no better/worse than coming out as Gay? I know that the people that are okay/upset won't be 100% overlap. So Conservative Great Aunt Teena might be grudgingly okay with Gay AS LONG AS YOU ARE MONOGAMOUS! Whereas Grandma Georgina who was NOT okay with Gay might be ecstatic about Poly because *maybe* it means I'll finally settle down with some nice girl and give her grand-babies. (And then I'll have to have a chat with her about how Poly doesn't make me less Gay...)

To put it another way, every person's reaction will be different and not necessarily predictable.

 

[Tinwen]

I wish it was easy. Chris I'm not so worried about. He "gets" poly but I JUST spent tonight talking Joanne back off a ledge because she can't seem to ever find the right man. She's overworked, underpaid, under laid, lonely (beyond friends) and so on.

Trust your own sense of tact. Maybe your friend is at a too low place in her life right now to receive your great news well. So tell her later.

I don't think you dating is that much of a big deal though, to your friends. They will have their reactions to poly, but really, it isn't affecting their life more than getting them to think.
IMHO coming outs are often a little easier than imagined, however, YOU know your people.

 

[Tinwen]

Here's a video on coming out - see if it helps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ-8ocmtb_8&t=779s