help, before I loose my marrige...

A

alexbear

New member
First off, I live in vancouver, BC
, canada. I am a transman, in transition and on hormones.

I have been fairly happily married to my wife for 6 years. We habe been together for 8. Oct 8th of this year, I had my first sugery, Histo. I had to go off hormones 4 weeks prior and due to supplier issus was unable to obtain my prescription until late November. Thus thrusting me into surgical induced menopause, and post menopausa depression.

While I was recovering from sugery my wife met "S" (pre-transitioning transwoman) an online game we both play. She talked to S more and more and met J, S' s wife of three years.

I was still recovering from sugery and going through my hormone mess, short version. She became emotionally involved with them. She fell in love. They have been sexting, she watched them have sex on video, she watched one of them get off (just water her face) listened to them have sex, and let them hear her get off. (She did not have a cam)

She introduced me to these people as "friends", and really good people that I should get to know. So I started playing the game again, got in voice chat. But they were all silent.. what do you want me here for?

I found that tho they were silent, they were typing prefusely to each other. I asked "what are you taking about" the reply was "you", don't worry about it. It was very odd and sneaky behaviour. Something was off.

So the next morning I read the chat logs from the game. I discovered what was actually going on, Some of it anyway. I was not impressed. Not being in a good head space already, I flew off the handle.

Short version she was cheating on me. She refused to admit it, it wast cheating because they never touched. Instead she claimed that she is now poly, and i have to accept these to people as part of my life, or divorce.

The hard part, we have touched on open relationships or pplay partners. We touched, it never went any further as we both have body issues (I have some serious dysphoria issues), she has over come an eating disorder.

She refuses to read any poly material, I can get her to read a few things from here, but usually she says I don't want to look at that right now. I'll save it for later. But she never gets to it. She spends every moment she can talking to them.

I made the choice to stay, because I love her deeply, I'm in love with her. And want to grow old and wrinkly with her. And I'm not about to loose our 8 year relationship to a now 3 month thing, that may only last a year.

Yea I know I'm crazy. So crazy I drove the 750 miles to Idaho where her new partners live to meet them. I was there for about 12 hours and had to drive the 8 hours back, but I did it.

I gave them all a list of rules they have to abide by while I'm working through the process of understanding poly, I know I'm capable, I've just suffered so much emotional trauma over the years I choose too wisely who to let in.

My rule chart is basically my rebuild my trust guidelines. I do not trust them, I do not trust her.

I have asked:

Turn off the skype cam if it us on when I get home. (I like to come in and change, the cam points to the door where I peel off my clothes)
No more cam sex
no more getting off for each other
no cam nakedness
no nude photos

They are planning a visit here. And I have stated:
No making out
No sex
and I have to know the dates they are coming because I will need that time off work.

My rules were recieved well by J and S, but my wife T has bucked and prodded against them. It took three weeks after I found out for her to get it that she was indeed cheating. My hormones are balanced now I'm back on hrt (hormone replace mentioned therapy).

I've told her she has to follow my comfort level, or this will never work. But I always get the "I'm an adult and I make my own choices" response. I'm hurting, I'm highly insecure and I know I'm not the only one. There are 4 of us affected. Me more so as I was blindsided.

We are trying to work on us. I find it frustrating when I'm going to all these lenights to read and educate myself and see all the wonderful advice on this forum. But she doesn't want to talk about, or read it. I've read most of the ethical slut, I gave her the book, she has yet to touch it.

I want to repair my marrige, and accept j and s as part of our life. Its hard, very hard. And due to my irrational behaviour because of severe hormone imbalance, it's like J and S are scared to be around me. They don't communicate with me. I need them to, I need to put my fears at rest to get over the jelousy and insecurity aspect.

I don't know what to do. I'm dome with the fighting, I'm done trying to reach out. I'm done, it's too much stress. I'm not going to make any more effort to connect with them. It's now in thier court. I've opened the door for them to come to me.

I don't know how long I should wait, I don't want to resent, I want to remain open. I love my wife, I'm in love with her. I guess I'm just looking for direction, or advice as others do.

- Bear
 
Welcome to the board alexbear.

Congrats on your surgery, and I am glad your hormones are balanced out again so you can deal with this mess somewhat rationally.

Unfortunately, your wife is being totally irrational. She is in the throes of NRE (new relationship energy) and is going mad with lust for her couple. It's a hormonal state and makes people cah-razy! Yes, she is cheating. This is not ethical.

You say you have been reading on the boards for a while. Maybe you've seen my posts. I went through something similar with my (now ex) bf in the first half of 2014. He also fell for a couple, and even though we are poly and there were no issues with him having sex with them, he went mad and so did they, with the NRE, and my needs were totally neglected. I carried on from March to July, and then had to dump him. I was totally pushed aside and he couldn't even see it. I wasn't willing to ride out his NRE, I'd had enough.

I am sorry to see your pain. However, it's not going to work to verbally forbid your wife from anything she wants to do. She is not behaving ethically or kindly towards you at all, but otoh, it is not ethical for you to forbid her (much less the others) to do anything. She is an autonomous human being and can make her own choices. She is making choices that hurt you, and that are tearing your heart out, but they are her choices to make. You can state the needs of your own you'd like her to meet (quality time, dates, sex, time spent off phone or computer and focused on you, etc) but it's up to her to be willing to agree to care for you.

All you can control is your own behavior. Forbidding them to have cyber/skype sex is probably pointless, since that cat is already out of the bag. Forbidding them to have actual sex when they visit is also pointless. She is willing to cheat, that is proven. I doubt she will agree to that... maybe verbally she will, but it seems to me she would break her word. You could tell the couple they are forbidden to be in your house, and that you'll call the cops if they trespass. Then at least they will have to resort to another place to have their sex!

I also loved my ex bf dearly. His NRE for his couple was so overwhelming, that even when we'd have long talks about how disappointed I was in how it was affecting our r'ship, and even though he'd listen seemingly compassionately and promise to meet my needs better, he would go back to the same old behaviors the very next day. (Add in his couple were brand new to poly, with jealousy issues of their own, while still both being horny for my bf... it was a trainwreck, and took all his attention. He found it very flattering and exciting to be desired by these two at once, while they struggled in their own r'ship. I found it disgusting. We were like 3 dogs fighting over the same bone [pun intended] and I couldn't stand the indignity.)

But you're not me. She's not him. Maybe there is a chance for you two. If she is stubbornly in la la land and refusing to read anything about how to conduct herself ethically, perhaps you can get her to agree to couples counseling with a poly friendly counselor. I assume you're in therapy for your transition? (My gf is a transwoman in transition, and she's been in therapy 6 years). Perhaps your counselor can recommend a poly friendly couples counselor. There is also a list here, I think it's in the Golden Nuggets section.

So sorry you're going through this. It ripped my heart out to let my bf go, and I am just starting to feel a little better, 5 months later.

You can read the posts on my blog here (Simultaneous NRE) from late 2013, and 2014, to see what I went through trying to deal with my bf's behaviors. I stopped blogging because he was "monitoring" my blog (to see if I said anything to "out" his couple and hurt his chances with them) and it felt invasive. For all I know, he might still be reading all my other posts though. Ugh.
 
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Alexbear,

Sorry you are in this situation. Unfortunately, a lot of people "discover" poly AFTER they have cheated or when they are about to. They feel guilt over what they know is cheating and then start searching for some explanation that can ease their mind.

then they have the "talk" with their spouse or partner.

She is justifying what she is doing in her own mind claiming to be something that she has no clue about.

As someone else said, you just have to decide what you can live with or what you cannot. As long as this other couple is available, the behavior may not end real soon.
 
I am so sorry. :(

I want to repair my marrige, and accept j and s as part of our life.
Click to expand...

I do not think she wants to repair at this time. The first step is to own what she did, and she does not sound like she wants to take personal responsibility. You both have to want to repair for repair work to start to happen. :(

How long should you wait for her willingness to participate in repair? Only you can answer that. You might be willing to wait some weeks. Probably not 10 years. NRE lasts six months to two years, if that helps any. So could choose something in between that works with your limit of tolerance. What is your limit of tolerance? What are your dealbreakers?

If she takes no action by x? Or has done dealbreaker x? You could walk away and work on healing alone. Because lingering in the hurting space is not a good place to linger. Better to linger in the healing space.

Do talk to your counselor about all this. Hang in there!

Galagirl
 
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So, I typed the origional post in fustration.

She has accepted that she cheated. It took three weeks of hell, and constant outbursts from me (again, I was crazy and actually wanted to strangle kittens, hormone imbalances SUCK!!!), she acknowledged it.

that was a big step, I needed that to start my healing process. I've been basically been grieving for my marriage. It sucks. She has told me that I am her rock, her foundation, and life without me is unimaginable.

I feel the same. If we divorce, I will live a sad existence. I would never allow myself to open up to anyone ever again, I wouldn't be able to allow the hurt to happen again. she knows that, i've made it very clear.

Currently, I'm the slowest moving person, because of the fears. I'm tired of reaching out, and getting no response to S and J. I know they don't want me around, I cause emotional stress because of how much of an asshole I was before. they all feel like they are on eggshells in my presence, because they can't express how they feel about each other openly.

yes, I was a complete dick. I know that, I handled it very badly . I know that and I own that. But that is not the person I am. I was driven by uncontrollable thoughts and a severe hormone imbalance.

I have told my wife, for this to work, I need to see action. Being INTJ/ENTJ (i'm an ambiovert) I naturally see actions louder than words. Its like she doesn't get it. She does try little things. I asked for a break from them. I asked her to give us a week to talk and work on our issues. we had some minor problems in our marriage, very minor. we only ever argue about money, or the fact, I can't give her the full connection she needs.

I come from a background where emotions are expressed silently. I express how I love her through touch, weather its a hug, how I hold her at night. Connecting with her, if it gets too deep I break it. I can't handle the nauseating feeling if it gets too strong, it makes me physically ill. I have massive emotional scarring from my childhood, which makes me auto disconnect.

She knew that when we got married and she accepted that about me. She never sought this out, and I know that. It happened. I'm terrible at communicating, 1/2 of it is not learning things through childhood (isolated) and the other 1/2 well, I was diagnosed with MS 8 years ago. so I find it difficult to get my points across.

I'm looking for Ideas, I won't wait forever. She needs to realize what she needs to do to satisfy my needs. I convey them as this.

I need to trust all of them to kill my fears, I do not. we all need to communicate, that is how it has to be. otherwise I will walk. I don't think she understands the seriousness of that. we are talking right now, I will update if there is any progress.

I think a date of 1 year is good. If I don't see something by then, i'll be gone. I see little things now, we talk and its good. then I say something that gets miscommunicated, and we argue for days.

I know we can get past this, I know it will make us stronger. I just don't know how long I can wait and feel neglected. I need to see change, and If i don't, I will end up leaving.
 
Greetings Bear,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

Sorry the ongoing situation is so difficult for you, it must be very frustrating. I don't blame you for setting a due date (one year) for things to get better; use that year to the best of your ability, and I hope your wife will too.

Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"

Notes:

There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!

Please read through the guidelines if you haven't already.

Note: You needn't read every reply to your posts, especially if someone posts in a disagreeable way. Given the size and scope of the site it's hard not to run into the occasional disagreeable person. Please contact the mods if you do (or if you see any spam), and you can block the person if you want.

If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.

Welcome aboard!
 
I could be wrong. But here it how it sounds to me at this point in time.

SITUATION

  • Wife owns that she cheated.
  • Wife still wants to polyship with the cheating partners.
  • Do you want to polyship at all?
  • Do you want to polyship with the cheating partners?
  • Do they want to polyship at all with you?

TIME FRAME
You are giving "it" a year before you walk.
  • What is "it" exactly? Is that a hard limit or a soft limit? (Like one year, period. Or one year, then reassess if ienough progress has happened to make it worth continuing?)
  • What is your desired outcome?
  • What behaviors do you want to see from wife?
  • The others?
  • You?
  • How will it be measured so you each know it is moving in the direction you each like?

NEEDS GOING UNMET

All need to feel emotionally safe.
  • Has wife apologized to all for her cheating behavior?
  • Has S?
  • Has J?
  • Have you apologized to all for your behavior while hormonally unbalanced?
  • Has each one asked each of the others for fogiveness and opportunity to make amends?

All need to be able to trust.
  • For you to begin to rebuild trust, you need more communication than you are getting now from each.
  • What does wife need to rebuild trust?
  • What does S?
  • What does J?
  • What is the plan to change this?

You do not meet your wife's need for connection or emotional expression. (words)
  • You own that you do not have these skills at this time.
    • Partially because you never learned them as a child. (What blocks you from learning as an adult? Can it be changed?)
    • Partially because of your MS dx. (How does this block you from learning? Can it be changed?)
  • What's your plan to update these skills so you can learn to meet her connection need?

Your wife does not meet your need for actions. (like touch)
  • She does not have this skill at this time. She knows this is what you prefer.
  • What's her plan to address this to better meet your need? What blocks her from learning it?

She needs to realize what she needs to do to satisfy my needs. I convey them as this.
Click to expand...

I do not understand that sentence.
  • Do you mean she's just supposed to know what you need? Like you want her to mind reader you?
  • Do you mean you have given a list of behaviors you would like from her? What is the list of behaviors? (The post was still a bit hard to read/emotional for me.)
  • Could you be willing to clarify that sentence?


SUGGESTION

At this point in time, this is (healing from cheating) to me. It is not yet (set up to start polyshipping)to me.

I do not know if either of these help you identify some of your feelings so you can take them to a counselor:

http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/are-you-in-poly-hell
http://felislunae.org/relationships-love/coming-clean/

I think you guys would be best off with a poly friendly marriage counselor who can help you finish identifying areas that need work, help you make the strategy for addressing each area. Also help you figure out how to measure progress made, and how to set reasonable expectations for healing from cheating. And can help you formulate how to do healthy polyshipping. Once you have clearer sense of what it TAKES? Show of hands who is actually up for it or not.

Even if all are up for it? I think it is going to be a process here. I also think all 4 have to want it in this order for it to work out in the end. It might take more than a year too.

  • I want to take personal responsibility for my behaviors.
  • I want to forgive and rebuild trust with each of these people.
  • I want to learn to communicate better with each of these people.
  • I want to participate in creating healthy boundaries for me / respect other people boundaries.
  • Doing those things will help me heal from this cheating affair.
  • Doing those things will help me move on to healthy polyshipping together in an open model like _____.

I am so sorry you deal in this. :(

Galagirl
 
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Gala girl rocks!

Gala girl you are awesome. Thank you so mich for this. I will approach them all with this. There should if been a semi colon at the end of the sentence. My phone loves to do odd typos sometimes.

I meant a year, and if it's not working by then or there is still refusal to include me(I mean by decisions, and possibly friends) and our marrige isnt rebuilding, or has had no progress, then I'm out. At that point it's not poly, it's the continuance of a cheating relationship even though I know about it.

I'm also sorry for posting this in introductions.it should of went to discussions :/

:)
 
The mods might move this thread for you. Although the intro board seems to me like an okay place too.

Re (from Magdlyn):
"Perhaps your counselor can recommend a poly friendly couples counselor. There is also a list here, I think it's in the Golden Nuggets section."
Click to expand...

I can't recall where it is in Golden Nuggets, but here is the list I keep handy FWIW:

And some resources you can direct your counselor to if they're unfamiliar with poly:

Hope that helps.
 
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