Help, family breaking apart!

afraidtoloseher

New member
First, thanks for having me. Im a vanilla (her words) mono guy with a poly wife who has been faithful to me for 5 years, and given me two beautiful children. She convinced me to let her start pursuing other interests, and it seems to have gone all wrong. She went out with a guy, and after about 2 hours at home with the kids, i lost it. The feeling came in a rush and i texted her to get home now! I called and called, and finally she called back and ultimately came home within 30 min. This guy is poly like her and was understanding. He had driven 2 hours to meet her, rented a room and all that. This was their first time meeting. We talked and she said now the door is open and she won't go back to just being with me, but we could wait until the new year to discuss options. We don't want to live separately for the kids sake. They are 3 yo and 9 mos baby. I looked through her phone today ( i know, i know, not kosher, but...) and found loads of graphic texts, talking about...well very, very sexual and specific. She talked about how she cant wait to have him in her, blah blah, oral stuff, etc, like its a foregone conclusion. I felt enraged and extremely sad...devastated really. I really thought i was more open than this. We had discussed it for years and she patiently waited for my ok. But the cats out now, pun intended. She claims im number 1 always, but she wants more than sex with this guy, and presumably others as well. She says she has love to give beyond just one person, but ill always be first. People change, and Im hard to live with at times, so i see her drifting away and ultimately leaving for someone better. After 5 years the sex is boring for us both and she is very overweight, which kills my desire big time. Im ugly as shit, so its probably no picnic for her. But i digress....please wise and experienced members, im,really hurting bad here, and i can't talk about this with anyone. Thank you in advance for your time.
 
So are you saying she was poly and dating when you met and then decided to close for an unspecified period of time and now for the past couple yrs she's wanting to open back up.

Or was this something that came up after you married her?


I suggest you read this thread : http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81764

And also familiarize yourself with the term " poly hell " Our greeter Kev will provide many links of lots of reading resources.
 
People change, and Im hard to live with at times, so i see her drifting away and ultimately leaving for someone better.
I'm neither wise nor that experienced :eek:, but this seems to be the crux of the matter, sex with others or not.
I'd be asking myself and her it that's a fear of yours, or her real preference. I'd be asking yourself and her what changes can be made to feel better as a couple.
You seem to have opened in a time when your relationship is not in good shape any more. I think you could be searching for ways to enhance intimacy again (that would be eg. expressing appreciation, emotional vulnerability, doing novel things together, ...), if it is your wish to remain as a couple for some more time.
 
I've been there and done it with reading my partner's texts without her consent, and I can honestly say, it's really not worth it. When it comes down to it, there are some things you just don't need to know about your partner and their interactions. Also, a lot of what is exchanged in text/speech never actually makes it into the real world, and even if it does, fantasy sadly does not equal reality. What I'm saying is basically, you violated her privacy and saw some things that you literally weren't meant to see. Because they were her/his fantasies, not yours. You can look at what you learnt in two ways: 1) She and I will never have what they have, I'm useless, she's a terrible person, he's just the worst, etc, etc; or 2) Looking at her private stuff makes me feel crap, I'd better not do that again, talk is not action, and even if it is, no one texts the other person the next day to say what a shit time they had so I should evaluate this all as being with a dose of politeness not meant for my eyes.

Your first step is to admit what you've done. Your next move is to admit why you've done it in the first place. No one sneaks a peek without a reason. In my case it was because my partner struggled to give me enough info about her other relationships to feel secure, and I also had some ways to go in trusting her at her word. It was scary to admit that, but ultimately, it helped her understand. Make no bones about it - you fucked up royally and she will be pissed off at you - but the path to redemption does not include seething in silence. You can make lemonade out of lemons if you choose the right path. But to ignore it will only prolong your suffering. Talk to her.
 
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Greetings afraidtoloseher,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

Just some food for thought, have a look at Brené Brown: the Power of Vulnerability

There is also a book you can read, "The Jealousy Workbook: exercises and insights for managing open relationships," by Kathy Labriola. I do think you are struggling with jealousy.

Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"

Notes:

There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!

Please read through the guidelines if you haven't already.

Note: You needn't read every reply to your posts, especially if someone posts in a disagreeable way. Given the size and scope of the site it's hard not to run into the occasional disagreeable person. Please contact the mods if you do (or if you see any spam), and you can block the person if you want.

If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.

Welcome aboard!
 
Thank you all for the sound advice. I knew she was poly when we met, but didn't care really because i figured i would move on in a year or so anyway like i always did when single. I was about to end it, but she came up pregnant, so i did what i thought was right and commited, for better or worse (lots of worse, btw). She stayed monogamous for 5 years because i wanted it, but told me today she's been miserable the whole time. She said shes been denying her true self for me and the kids. Says the reason for all the fighting and misery lo these many years is a result of her frustration. She swears up and down that she won't leave, just need something different. Says its not about better, just meeting needs that i can't and she doesnt expect that. Says she loves me and would never leave, great in bed, all that, but...She says if im not ok with this, we can be friendly roomates with benefits while raising the kids. She keeps telling me i can be with other women, so whats the prob? In theory it sounded awesome, every mans dream right? Buuutt...idk, not seeming so great now. Too sentimental and sumple minded am I? Idk...i know i shouldn't have read her texts, but i know her and she WILL be doing these things with this guy, im sure of that. I wanna be cool with this and maybe enjoy other women, but something is just twisting me all up about the whole deal. I see why people just straight up cheat now. My little 9 month old boy is staring at me and giggling while i write this...i dont want to lose what we have. Thanks again for the nice welcome, this is helping a lot
 
Happy to help in any way possible. Based on your second post, I am thinking that you and your wife have bumped up against a profound incompatibility. Obviously you don't want to break up, but barring that I think you are going to have to find a way to make peace with her poly mindset.
 
Thx Kevin for the kind words and the links. Ive been reading through for the past hour or so and the ted talk was good too.

Basically ive been given an ultimatum: if i dont allow this, then the relationship as we know it ends. She turned it around and said it was ME who would be ending it, and since she denied herself for 5 years, its time for me to suck it up and deal. This seems unfair to me, but she has a way of arguing that makes you second guess everything you say, and to a greater degree, what kind of person you are. Its how she talked me into allowing her to meet this person that night in the first place.

Btw, it doesnt seem safe to stay over and have sex with someone you've never met in person. They had talked for a few weeks online, but that doesn't seem smart, especially for a woman. And see i know this to be true, yet she convinced me thst its all good and she is a "really good judge of people, so dont worry...im not an idiot ya know!!"

Thoughts?
 
I am sorry you struggle.

I wanna be cool with this and maybe enjoy other women, but something is just twisting me all up about the whole deal.

She keeps telling me i can be with other women, so whats the prob?

Is the problem because you don't even want to be in a polyship? That would be a big problem.

If you prefer your relationships to be monogamous? Participating in a poly relationship at this point in time won't change that preference. It will simply feel yucky. It would be you doing something you really don't want to be doing just to avoid a divorce.

Is that what is going on here?

  • You are thinking about going along for the ride because you fear divorce and/or making big changes in your life?
  • But going along for the ride means compromising yourself in a big way -- doing things you really don't want to be doing? :(

To me it sounds like the problems started here:

I was about to end it, but she came up pregnant, so i did what i thought was right and commited, for better or worse (lots of worse, btw).

Why get married to someone you were about to break up with just because they are pregnant? :confused:

It is possible to do "the right thing" and make child care arrangements, pay support, and all that other stuff to provide for the child and NOT get married.

She stayed monogamous for 5 years because i wanted it, but told me today she's been miserable the whole time.

Maybe it was her "trying to do the right thing" too and being miserable doing it and finally not able to keep the facade any more.

It sounds like instead of doing "the right thing" for your individual selves and focusing on solid coparenting arrangements and not leaping into a marriage when you weren't compatible really... it sounds like you both got caught up in "doing the right thing according to society."

Maybe parents or friends were pressuring... who knows?

But the outcome is that neither of you has been all that thrilled sounding with "enduring" the marriage. If Open/poly relationship is basically a new tool to help you endure it some more... maybe instead of enduring it you both could be brave and talk about letting the ill-fitting marriage go. Allowing things to change. Allow yourselves be more authentic. Practice a relationship model that fits better -- exes, coparents and in time, perhaps friends.

  • Then you are free FROM anything poly that you do not want. You are free TO mono as you prefer.
  • You can focus on dating people who are compatible with your mono preferences.
  • You can focus on being a good co-parent with her.
  • You can focus on being a good parent to your kids.

  • Then she is free FROM anything mono that she does not want. She is free TO poly as she prefers.
  • She can focus on dating people who are compatible with her poly preferences.
  • She can focus on being a good co-parent with you.
  • She can focus on being a good parent to your kids.

Neither of you are bad people here. Just sound very mismatched all the way back from the beginning.

Maybe it is time to quietly acknowledge that rather than try twisting yourselves into a new pretzel (polyamory)?

When you already have the old pretzel experience (marriage) that didn't/isn't going so hot?

Could try to TAKE AWAY from the burdens rather than ADD more.

We don't want to live separately for the kids sake. They are 3 yo and 9 mos baby.

If you want to try living together for a bit more because it makes finances easier or parting at the end of the lease makes more sense and gives time to save up money, or similar reasons... could acknowledge it is for the adults' sake. No so much the kids' sake.

I honestly don't think the babies would care if you guys move to "in the same complex" or even "next-door" apartments to make childcare doable/easier while maintaining your own separate homes. Kids can adapt, esp babies that little who won't remember anything else.

If the home environment has been largely fighting for 5 years? It might be better to NOT live together long term.

My husband told me once ages ago that he wishes his parents just up and divorced sooner rather than "staying together for the kids" and divorcing when he graduated high school. Because he saw the writing on the wall in elementary school and all that meant to him as a child was putting up with years and years of fighting and walking around on eggshells rather than just getting a quiet peaceful home life.

Perhaps that is something to think about.

Galagirl
 
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Basically ive been given an ultimatum: if i dont allow this, then the relationship as we know it ends. She turned it around and said it was ME who would be ending it, and since she denied herself for 5 years, its time for me to suck it up and deal.

The reality is that if SHE CHOSE to endure misery for 5 years of saying nothing? SHE CHOSE to deny herself while telling herself "it's for him, for the kids?" That was all her choice.

You cannot be a mind reader. Blaming you later for her choices is blame-shifting. Dumping all her self-grown resentments on you is not fair. But no point in arguing it if she's hell bent on blame shifting it. Keep it simple on yourself. Don't enter side conversations or circle conversations over who did this or that. Stick to the task at hand.

Agree to end it. Part ways as quick and clean as possible.

This seems unfair to me, but she has a way of arguing that makes you second guess everything you say, and to a greater degree, what kind of person you are. Its how she talked me into allowing her to meet this person that night in the first place.

It IS unfair. Know the word "gaslighting?" Or even plain "bullying?"

When you give in mostly to make the bullying stop so you have some peace? That's not you agreeing to something of your own free will. That's you being bullied into it. It's not loving behavior to bully someone.

And maybe that's why you have a problem trusting in her Word when she says she loves you and will never leave. Because you know from experience that what she DOES is bully you and that is less than loving behavior. :(

Btw, it doesnt seem safe to stay over and have sex with someone you've never met in person. They had talked for a few weeks online, but that doesn't seem smart, especially for a woman. And see i know this to be true, yet she convinced me thst its all good and she is a "really good judge of people, so dont worry...im not an idiot ya know!!"

Well... I agree with you. Doesn't seem safe to me. But I accept that everyone else doesn't have to think like me. This is a side trip argument anyway if the main thing is that (you don't want to poly and she's railroading you into it/guilt tripping you into it.)

You were given an ultimatum. You could be firm in this and say "no, thank you."

"My answer is no, thank you. I do not want to be in your poly network. You do not want mono. So we are no longer compatible in marriage. I would like to end this clean, quick, and focus on being good coparents for the kids."

Galagirl
 
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Galagirl, holy shite, i cant even believe how dead on you are in your reply...wow.

Yes, despite the so called "benefits" i think i would be enjoying, it does make me physically and emotionally sick and I feel like an idiot and a prude for reacting like this...but much like vomiting, its beyond my control, and i hate this reality.

She gave me the option to leave and not even deal with the child...she was going to move home 3000 miles away and be with her family. Now her revisionist history reads that we could've made arrangements without a commitment. But you're right in that we got caught up in what society and family expected. It was like an arranged marriage, not literally of course, but in that we truly did fall in love, albeit it took a few years for both of us.

But honestly, in between the good is a LOT of bad. Screaming, yelling, name calling, using sensitive information to hurt, etc. Ive never, ever had such a volatile, damaging experience in my life. Her background is a family of alkys and addicts (shes the exception) but this has colored her coping skills it seems. And the kids, especially the 3 yo, have been unfairly exposed already. Sometimes i just want to run fast and far....
 
Just saw your second reply Gala...oh god that just hits so close and hard. I can't believe I've let myself be treated this way. I was the guy that always beat the bullies to a pulp, without question. It only took a few times...how did I become the abused one? Everything you said was so spot on, it scared me. Maybe its no coincidence that every prior relationship never devolved in the madness we live in almost daily. It was always about trust and communicating like ADULTS. When i call her on any kind of rude or demeaning behavior, her answer is always for me to go ahead and find another girl who suits me better. And she'll just continue to bring up everything she does for me (which is a lot) and how good Ive got it, so how dare i feel offended or hurt. I think she really messed up my sense of right and wrong. I hate fighting and do my best to make her happy, but its always something or some way im screwing up. For 30 plus years, I was doing pretty good I thought, but apparently for the last 5, ive become a total shite in every sense of the word.

Back to center point....i love your last line, simple and to the point. I do get caught up in issues not pertinent to the one we are discussing, and she uses this as a defense and a deflection. Every other outside perspective is right in line with your very astute observations, and its what I've been feeling all along. Thank you
 
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I'm sorry there's been so much bad in this situation for you. :(

I hope you feel a bit better for airing some of it out. You sound like you've been burdened a long time.

Yes, despite the so called "benefits" i think i would be enjoying, it does make me physically and emotionally sick and I feel like an idiot and a prude for reacting like this...but much like vomiting, its beyond my control, and i hate this reality.

Know what? Don't need to ADD to the load by calling you own self names like "idiot" or "prude." You cannot help being turned off by things that turn you off.
Be ok being who you are and preferring what you prefer.

If you guys were kind of pushed into marriage by the families? You sound like you have both given it a shake for several years. Doing so did not make it any more of a match or make you guys any more compatible. The sensible thing to do at this point in time is to part ways. Not invest more time and energy into the marriage where neither is happy being in it.

You are both adults and can make your own choices. You don't have to choose to keep pleasing families any more. Could end it as quick, clean, and polite as possible so you can each move on to relating in a way that is healthier -- as exes and coparents.

If her coping skills are rough due to her family background? Or whatever other reason? It is what it is. But it doesn't make it ok for her to be bullying you or excuse that poor behavior. It does underline how incompatible you guys are.

You guys have been two people enduring a very ill-fitting marriage for a very long time. You both are getting more and more stressed and frustrated the longer it goes on. You cannot have civil discussion about problem solving to make it better. So... I encourage you to be brave and talk about disbanding so both get some relief. Take the pot off the burner. Don't keep it on the heat. Don't point fingers or blame. Just move it forward so both get relief.

But honestly, in between the good is a LOT of bad. Screaming, yelling, name calling, using sensitive information to hurt, etc. Ive never, ever had such a volatile, damaging experience in my life.

Sometimes i just want to run fast and far....

Then disband the marriage. You were given an ultimatum: Do this, or part ways.

  • Well, you don't want to be doing poly. Not what you prefer. Feels yucky to you. Which is fine -- you are allowed to prefer what you prefer.
  • That leaves "part ways". Which you actually do seem to want. Just maybe feel scared of changes all that will entail. Understandable!

There is a reason "divorce" is #2 on the stress scale.

Ending a marriage carries a load of complex emotions. Even if a wanted change, you will feel sad, mourn a loss, fear new changes, rearrange living quarters, change finances, ... LOTS of feelings and things are set to wobbling first before you can create a new stability for yourself. It is OK for things to feel weird when the "old normal" is ending/gone and the "new normal" isn't quite here yet.

You could be ok being a person in transition, and could be FIRM about this needed change.

For 30 plus years, I was doing pretty good I thought, but apparently for the last 5, ive become a total shite in every sense of the word.

She doesn't sound happy here either. Just that she dumps it all on your head so she can push the yucky feelings away from herself and not be feeling them.

And you take it personally like you "are a shite" rather than seeing it for what it is -- bad behavior and blame shifting.

And neither is taking a step back to see the bigger picture -- NEITHER is happy in this marriage but NEITHER is asking for constructive changes like asking for a divorce. That could be change so BOTH can get relief.

Sounds like "going along" with the unwanted marriage to incompatible partner just to please the families was a choice you made that took you away from your core values. You compromised your values.

Could start the walk back to being more true to yourself and your values. Be more authentic you.

  • Disband the wonky marriage; don't keep going with it just to keep pleasing the families or "for the children" or whatever. Those are not good reasons to stay in an ill-fitting marriage.

  • Do NOT start flying even more off track from the things you prefer and value by choosing to participate in a poly network you don't even want just to try to please her. That's not a good reason to poly.

  • Start flying more true to your values and please YOU. Figure out what that looks like.

You describe this marriage as the most volatile, damaging experience in your life. You have clocked 5 years. Why sign up to go for more? How many years have to pass before you decide you are done? :(

YOU could be firm about a divorce even if she ends up flip flopping on it or promises to change or whatever when she realizes you are serious about parting ways.

Be kind but firm. Tell her you hope her next romantic relationships are good ones. Tell her firmly you are done with marriage here. And you prefer to focus on being good coparents for the kids.

Don't take on NEW pretzels. It's ok to be done. It's ok to feel sad about being done. But stay done. Don't clock more time on an unhappy marriage. Be willing to stop putting energy into fueling that unhappiness. Use the energy to fuel other things instead.

Life is not a dress rehearsal. You only get the one. Aim more for the kind of living you prefer and what actually makes you happy. You are the one living your life. The only one that has to be pleased with how you are living it is YOU.

Right now you don't sound pleased with how you have been living it. :(

How can forum people help you?

Galagirl
 
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Hi afraidtoloseher,

There's certainly some truth in saying that it's unsafe to stay over and have sex with someone you hardly know and have never met in person. It has nothing to do with being an "idiot." Plenty of perfectly smart people can be lured into a dangerous situation. So I agree with you on that point.

Second, I don't care for the tit-for-tat system of taking turns "sucking it up." If you and your wife break up, it emphatically isn't your fault, it is only because you have a huge incompatibility. So it is nobody's fault. Your wife should not be steering the blame onto you.

I wonder if a couple's counselor would be helpful? It sounds like she at least could use some guidance in how to communicate.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
Thank you both for your insights. This is a deeper issue than I originally thought and its going to be hard, but the truth is we havent been happy for a long time and no need to add more pretzels as you put it.

We've talked about counseling. But she doesn't really believe therapy and counseling work so...i think its an issue we've both denied for so long and really its not healthy to continue on living together. As far as the poly issue, your advice is well receieved and very appreciated.
 
Glad if we could be of some help.

I have to agree, you should probably break up with her. I know that's not a happy thought, but, remaining together isn't very happy either.
 
I can imagine this is very hard for you right now. But I am glad you recognize that adding more pretzels (poly) isn't the answer.

Even though she doesn't believe in counseling, if you need extra support right now, it's ok for you to seek a counselor for just you.

Galagirl
 
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