Help? Husband tells me he loves another...

L

louise

New member
I am desperate to talk to others who have been through what I am going through as I simply cannot discuss with family or friends.

In November I discovered my husband had been blogging online with a much younger female in a roleplay father daughter incestuous (consensual) relationship.

I think that initialy the relationship was purely fantasy and a form of mental release for a secret taboo that my husband shared with this girl. However the reason I found out was that feelings had got involved. Their relationship had progressed to daily texting and skype calls and when I asked him about his behaviour change he told me pretty much everything. I did not understand at the time the depth of feelings involved. Over Chrismas I discovered the blog while family and friends were staying over and it was all I could do to hold things together. There was the porn element that I knew about but what was the real shock were the love notes, endearments and sentiments. He had written her love poems and sent pictures explaining how she was his soul mate and she completed him. How he would love her forever ect. My husband who always said he 'didnt do romance'.

We have been married for 20 years and we went through hell to get together. We have been soul mates, lovers, best of friends and we have been very happy. But now he tells me that he loves this other woman he has never even met in person. He tells me that he has the capacity to love more than one person and in a perfect world he would want to sleep with her but he knows that is probably not acceptable to me. Still he maintains hope. he keeps saying maybe one day I will feel differently.

Oddly if he had just said he wanted a more open relationship where he could sleep with strangers (but not fall in love with them) I feel i would have found this more acceptable.

Over the past few months I have tried to be accepting of his newly confessed sexuality and to understand and accept their relationship but I feel I am being torn apart. Intimate things that we always shared as a couple have been spoiled and it is the stupid things, like we always used to have a saying 'you and me' like the song and I found on their blog that they say the same thing - only meaning them and not us. It brings me to tears when I hear or see that phrase now. Whenever we are apart we have always said that if you see the moon the other one will see it too and know that they are loved and missed. She has said the same to him so now when I see the moon i just feel physically sick. I know that this is no quality of life and my mental state is not good right now.

Nothing physical has happened to date as far as I am aware (she is in another country) but they want to meet and for me to be OK with that. For us all to be 'friends'.

I am trying to be very adult and i have never given any ultimatums as i know that in the long run this would adversley affect my marriage. My husband says he wants her in his life forever and he never wants to choose but i never signed up for this. Whilst I appreciate polyamory I simply cannot relate to it.

I am hearbroken and lonely and cannot speak to anyone about how to work through this. Every time I am open and honest with him he reacts badly to seeing me hurt and says he will just give her up but that it would kill them both to do so (emotional blackmail?)

It would be easy to walk away if I felt he no longer loved and cared for me but we are, in a wierd way, stronger and closer than ever. He says his love for her doesnt diminish his love for me and that there is no risk to our relationship and yet I am deeply unhappy and seem to be caught in a no-win situation.

I find I am competing for his time and attention (they are constantly texting day and night) and yet I am loathed to create any ground rules as my husband has deep rooted issues with control in a relationship.

I am constantly anxious and every time he is away from me or goes into another room with his phone i wonder what the hell is being said. It is out of my control so i really shouldnt allow myself to be affected - but try as i might....

Are there others out there who have been through this and made it intact? I really want to understand and find a way that we can both be happy and stay together but I feel I am compromising myself and my needs. Am i being too reasonable?

I feel as though my life rug has been ripped out from under me. I dont have any point of reference so I dont know how to react. I could use some support...
 
I am sorry you struggle.

I really want to understand and find a way that we can both be happy and stay together but I feel I am compromising myself and my needs. Am i being too reasonable?
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You are in shock. Other feelings may come in time -- grief, anger, etc. Do your self care, then get on with sorting the toggles.

Do not compromise your values. If Open is just not for you, It's not not. I grey that toggle out.


  • Heal from Cheating: Currently hurting. It will continue as (Make repairs, rebuild trust | Do not make repairs, do not rebuild trust)?
  • Marriage Toggle: Currently married. It will continue as (Open, Closed, Divorce)?
  • Friendship Toggle: Currently not in right relationship. It will continue as (Return to being friends, Not Friends)?

FWIW? I think you express yourself well. Discovering this online affair? You HAVE had the rug pulled out from under you. This was NOT part of the agreement that you signed up for. Rather than talk to you first about changing any agreements? He chose to have a secret online affair. Don't sugar coat it and don't let him sugar coat it. Call it what it is.

I think you could be honest with yourself and with him. Have confidence that actions rooted in good character will get you through even if right now you do not see how. Starting to sugar coat things? That's not being honest with yourself. It's not in keeping with good character.

They want to meet and for me to be OK with that. For us all to be 'friends'.
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Be honest back. You can say:

  • I cannot stop you from meeting her. But I don't love the idea and I am not OK with it.
  • I am not up for all of us being friends. I have no interest in being friends with her.
  • You and me? We are not in right relationship right now. You having an online affair is not friendly behavior to me.

My husband says he wants her in his life forever
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You can say

"that outcome is up to you and her, not me."​

Then reaffirm boundaries:

"I do not talk to you about whatever is going on in the (you + her) relationship. I have no interest.

We talk about the (you + me) relationship. We discuss
  • Making repairs | return to continuing the marriage |return to being friends
  • Making repairs | ending the marriage |return to being friends
  • Not making repairs|ending the marriage | do not return to being friends

Stay on topic. To you... Which one of those is Acceptable? Which is Good? Which is Best? To me it goes.... "​

And list it.

he never wants to choose (between us)
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You can say --

"That's nice. Your choices are up to you. I am trying assess MY choices right now."​

One of you has to stay grounded and focused here.

Every time I am open and honest with him he reacts badly to seeing me hurt.
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That is his emotional baggage. You could let him carry his baggage. If he's acting out at you or whatever could say

"Stop. This is your emotional baggage. Not mine. You have to process that with someone else at this time. Not me. I am too close to the situation and too overloaded with my own emotional baggage right now."​

And you DO have enough in your own emotional bag right now. Do not stop expressing -- you need to empty your bag and process. Could gather your listeners. Just accept he might not be the Right Guy at this time to be on "Listening Team" for you.

I am hearbroken and lonely and cannot speak to anyone about how to work through this.
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I see that you are heartbroken. It's not fun. I am so sorry you deal in all this. You did not ask for it. :(

You need support. You CAN speak to others. It may be hard, but I have faith you can do it. You can talk here, but please also seek local listeners you feel safe with. Please tell your story to local friends, family, and/or seek a counselor. A counselor if nobody else. It is ok to need help.

(He) says he will just give her up but that it would kill them both to do so (emotional blackmail?)
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Making you responsible for his behavior choices is not fair. You are not making him offer things against his will.

Making you responsible for (his and her emotions) is not fair.

I call shenanigans. You seem to recognize it too!

  • He CAN deal with giving her up if he offering that. Without complaining at you about it. On that one? You are not the Right Guy to be on his Listening Team for that.
  • If he cannot deal? Don't be offering it in the first place then! Sheesh!

Set boundaries. "Please be responsible for your own behavior choices. Please do not offer things you do not not mean."

It would be easy to walk away if I felt he no longer loved and cared for me but we are, in a wierd way, stronger and closer than ever. He says his love for her doesnt diminish his love for me and that there is no risk to our relationship and yet I am deeply unhappy and seem to be caught in a no-win situation
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If what you need most right now is time away? Go. Hotel, with a friend, get a brain break and do your self care. IME, feelings ensue after behavior. If you need to leave in order to heal and get some calm back, you staying won't bring on healing. You have to know your own self and what you need so YOU can focus.

When you return, you could focus on sort the toggles with a clearer mind.

I find I am competing for his time and attention (they are constantly texting day and night) and yet I am loathed to create any ground rules as my husband has deep rooted issues with control in a relationship.
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Could this help?

http://felislunae.org/relationships-love/coming-clean/

While you did not agree to Open? You get the "fun" of poly hell feelings in top.

That's a heavy load. Poly hell feelings are hard even when you WANT to be there and you DO want to Open. Having it shoved on top of you? That is not fun. :(

He is is not doing a good job at healing broken trust right now. He IS doing a good job at alienating you further. How is any of this behavior him demonstrating considerate, kind, and loving behavior toward you? :confused:

You could ask what his intentions for the (you + him) relationship are at this time.

I am loathe to create any ground rules as my husband has deep rooted issues with control in a relationship.
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You having personal boundaries for yourself is not you trying to "control him." Get on with making your boundaries:

  • These are behaviors you will put up with
  • These are behaviors you will not.
  • If he wants to be with you, and try to sort things out? He will align his behaviors meets the bar.
  • If his behaviors are not up to your standard? He says one thing but does another? You cut him loose. Don't waste time trying to sort anything with someone who is not invested. If you have to linger, linger in the healing space. Not linger in dragging out the breaking up space.

You do not have to accept poor treatment of you because he does not want to be held accountable. If he doesn't want to meet your standard he could just choose not to be here! Choosing to be there while choosing to be inconsiderate? That might be fun for him but it's not fun for you. You have every right to choose to put more distance between you two if he's become intolerable.

That is not making him choose. That is YOU exercising your willingness to participate or not in things. If what he is inviting you to participate in now is an offer you do not enjoy? Decline!

You do not have to attend every party you are invited to.

Galagirl
 
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I think GalaGirl is spot on here. You need to concentrate on your own needs, figure out your own boundaries, and tend to your relationship with him rather than get involved in whatever they have going on. Also, don't be making excuses for his behaviour or try to come up with justifications - that is for him to do. He has broken your trust, which is going to take time to amend, and can only be done if it's done with intention on his part.

The fact that you say you and he are a little closer now that he's come clean is nothing more than the effect of honesty on a relationship. To my mind, that is a minimum requirement, not a thing to be super-celebrated. You can welcome the honesty and still not want to be involved in the massive lifestyle change he is wanting you to adopt. He can genuinely love you, and you him, and yet you could still no longer be compatible for a long-term relationship. When someone forces themselves to go against their own personal grain for love, that love soon turns to resentment. So don't do this 'for him'. By all means, continue to research polyamory, and see if anything resonates for you, but only agree to changing your relationship configuration if its genuinely something you want for yourself. There are many examples of people on these boards who are monogamous, but happily participating in a polyamorous relationship. People who managed to reconcile the idea of poly into their life, who actively benefit from having a more independent relationship structure, whose partners are incredibly skilled at making it work and not leaving their mono partner feeling neglected, but who recognise that whilst their own instincts are to be with just one partner, they are happy to share that person with other loves. However, there are no examples (that I know of) where a mono partner makes that transition when there are no personal benefits to them, or when they are the kind of people who not only need to be mono themselves but also need their partner to be as well. It's not a case of you just need to try REALLY REALLY HARD to not be jealous/to overcome your insecurities/to be better at communicating - some people just really aren't ever going to be okay with it. AND THAT'S GOOD. Better people know their own mind/limits/capabilities and advocate for the kind of life and love they want, than twist themselves into a pretzel to get crumbs.

As for your husband…he is living deep in fantasy land right now. Professing love for a woman he has never even met? Someone super young and/or possibly impressionable? In his shoes, I would be exhibiting more caution. Is this woman actually who she purports to be? Does he know *for sure* that she is of the age of consent? That she is mentally healthy? That the intimate conversations and images they share with one another aren't just going into a blackmail dossier? In your shoes, I wouldn't be hanging around too long hoping for him to see the light. I think he's going to selfishly pursue this to the bitter end, which to be fair, is unlikely to be far off. As I say, they are both dealing with fantasy images of each other, a fantasy that will be obliterated if they actually meet one another and realise that their role-playing game cannot be performed 24/7. I think relatively few online relationships survive first contact because you are falling in love with an idea of a person, someone who is constantly able to put their best foot forward and reveal only the sides of themselves that they want to, and not the full package. However, that he seems willing to pressurise you into allowing him this, and that he seems unable to put his rational head on and see the need to a) make amends for breaking your trust, and b) slow his other relationship down/stop it entirely until such a time as he has truly gained your informed consent to proceed…well, to me those things would be deal breakers. To me, they show that whilst he might be telling you that you are a priority to him, he's not acting like you are. Until his talk matches his walk, I see no reason to continue to invest in the relationship at your end.

I'm sorry you're going through this. :(
 
Thank you both for taking the time and attention to reply.

So nice to get some real 'strategies' for dealing with this rather than just sympathy!

I am going to take some time to consider all the above and to try to take back some control over my needs in the relationship.

Much love

Louise x
 
Glad it helps some.

Be really careful right now to keep it off "feelings" and on "behavior" because to me he sounds like a slippery fish, willing to use your soft feelings for him to get off the hook, and blow fog at you so you are all confused.

He says his love for her doesnt diminish his love for me and that there is no risk to our relationship
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That's nice. He shared his feelings from Dream World.

Back over here in Reality Land?

  • His poor BEHAVIOR choices do diminish YOUR love for him. Choosing to have an online affair is not loving or respectful towards you.
  • His subsequent poor BEHAVIOR choices DO pose a risk for the relationship continuing. He's not making repairs. He's digging the hole deeper texting and so on while neglecting you. That keeps up?

    You may choose to withdraw your willingness to participate here any more. And it is within your rights to do so.

I've been in these shoes with a slippery fish person. I hate it. The best I can do is "Be a traffic cop." No JADE. (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain.)

Keep it short and simple and keep the spotlight on behaviors and don't go off into "feelings." I'm not going to JADE my feelings with them, and I don't feel like listening to long windy conversations with the person JADE-ing theirs. On top of everything else they want me to be their therapist too? Pshaw.

A traffic cop does not sit there chatting with each driver for long windy howdy hoos. They just do the "red/no" or "green/go" hand signals for the cars to get them all through the intersection. Brisk and businesslike. No hanky panky.

Could do similar for yourself to get through the days. Just a basic

  • "You (did/did not) do this behavior? Yes or no?
  • You plan to (do /not do) this behavior moving forward? Yes/no?
  • Thank you for telling me. "
  • Done. Then you move on to make your next choices based on that info.

It works for the low level conversations like taking out the trash and other chores that still need doing in this difficult time. It works for higher level conversations about how to deal with this affair. Watch:

LOW LEVEL CONVO

"I want to clean this closet and need the trash can. Could you be willing to tell me if you did or didn't take out the kitchen trash? Yes or no?

If yes : Thanks! (You move on with your day. )

If no: Could you be willing to take it out now?
  • If yes: Thanks! I appreciate you taking it out now. Now I can go clean this closet.
  • If no: Thanks for telling me. I'll take it out. Then I can move on to cleaning this closet.

HIGHER LEVEL CONVO

"I want to make a marriage counseling appointment to help us navigate healing from this cheating thing some time next week. Could you be willing to tell me if Friday evening works for you? Yes or no?

If yes : Thanks! (You move on with your day and schedule)

If no: Is another day better? Which day?
  • If yes: Thanks for telling me Tuesday. Tuesday works for me too. I will schedule it. (and you move on)
  • If no: Thanks. I'm sorry no dates this week work out for you. I will schedule Friday for just me then. (and you move on)

Keep it simple on yourself right now.

Behaviors only.
Yes/no only.
Keep moving on through the days, one at a time.

Galagirl
 
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Hi louise,

It sounds like you don't want to leave your husband. If so, you must find a way to cope with this other relationship he has with this young woman he has never met. To do that, I suppose you'll have to compartmentalize. Such as asking him not to discuss her with you. Trying to think about her as little as possible.

He should not be texting her all the time, especially when he is supposedly spending time with you. Is he willing to be more devoted to his time with you?

I hope you are able to work things out.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Sleep with other women but not fall in love with them...the heart does not always cooperate. And even if his did, these various women's hearts might not. To suggest a husband sleep with women but never have any love for them, that you are always first and foremost--regardless of what they may come to feel as a result of intimacy--always sounds to me like suggesting your husband go get a toy to entertain himself.

Consider what you're suggesting for the theoretical women who get involved in this.
 
I'm sure he hoped to just keep this side of himself safe and secret. ...fearing judgements from others, even you. But feelings crept in. If you stay, you need to embrace this part of him. Or he will continue to lie and hide from you. You can be his partner but not if you need to control him.

The fact is this is likely an infatuation, heightened by repression. But this isn't going to go away and eventually he'll probably find another reliable partner. And it will never go back to how it used to be.

This will not be easy. It might be best to walk away.
 
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Candiedlove said:
If you stay, you need to embrace this part of him. Or he will continue to lie and hide from you. You can be his partner but not if you need to control him.
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Embrace which part of him? The part that fantasizes about 'consensual' incest? (Can incest with a child be consensual??) Or the cheating part? Why would anyone embrace a cheater?

Here's another option: he could grow up and quit lying. There is absolutely nothing that requires a man to lie, cheat, and hide things from his wife.

When did expecting honesty from a spouse become 'controlling?' Presumably there were some understandings, agreements, promises, even vows, in place, and he broke them. How does society function if we all just randomly break our promises and vows, and instead of acknowledging that, accuse those we have wronged of 'trying to control us?'

I am in agreement with you that she may be better off just walking away, but for very different reasons. This is not about 'trying to control him,' it's about him cheating and hiding. Poly is about openness and honesty, the consent of all involved, and that did not happen here.
 
Yes. I'm sick and tired of how sex negative the poly community is. Women have rape fantasies. Do the deserve to be raped? Some men and women have incest fantasies. He has done little wrong but hide a part of himself he, rightfully, thought he would be judged and shunned for. I don't blame him for lying. He told the truth and now is at risk of losing everything. That's incredibly scary.

Yes, he lied. But he's not a monster and certainly not being given any safe place to feel he can be honest from. Instead of helping those people learn how to be honest, we publicly denounce. I hope others in his situation see this and know someone out there believes they aren't evil...

Many people treat poly folk the same way we treat kinky. How dare we judge in a way we don't want to be judged.

WhatHappened said:
Embrace which part of him? The part that fantasizes about 'consensual' incest? (Can incest with a child be consensual??) Or the cheating part? Why would anyone embrace a cheater?

Here's another option: he could grow up and quit lying. There is absolutely nothing that requires a man to lie, cheat, and hide things from his wife.

When did expecting honesty from a spouse become 'controlling?' Presumably there were some understandings, agreements, promises, even vows, in place, and he broke them. How does society function if we all just randomly break our promises and vows, and instead of acknowledging that, accuse those we have wronged of 'trying to control us?'

I am in agreement with you that she may be better off just walking away, but for very different reasons. This is not about 'trying to control him,' it's about him cheating and hiding. Poly is about openness and honesty, the consent of all involved, and that did not happen here.
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Candiedlove said:
Yes, he lied. But he's not a monster and certainly not being given any safe place to feel he can be honest from.
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I do have to say that after working through a bunch of things in therapy, that its pretty clear that people don't really get to choose their kinks. A lot of people are pretty obsessed with things that are pretty embarrassing and that they wished they didn't. After having to accept some things that I like that I wish I didn't, I will never make fun of anyone else for their kinks.

Also lots of people cheat because they don't think they can or should be honest about attractions to others with their partners... This is clearly a difficult situation for the original poster. But sometimes if people are feeling blamed and already feeling too guilty themselves, then the easiest path forward is to jump ship. If there is a path forward where they can be forgiven for screwing some things up, then maybe it will look salvageable to stay and work on things...
 
Candiedlove said:
I'm sick and tired of how sex negative the poly community is.
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My first reflex is to tag that as "ludicrous hyperbole," or maybe an example of "judging in a way we don't want to be judged," but now I'm curious as to the full scope of your rationale.

Sure, the "Daddy/Baby" thing is hardly rare, & is in fact sublimated to different degrees throughout our culture for more than a century (likely more, but I studied United States film, so the historic record hits a wall). But for you to take ONE person's eyeroll about it to issue blanket damnation upon "the poly community" sure looks to indicate it's YOu with some issues, to leap right past defensiveness & go into Attack Mode.

But let's back up a little here, & address something your righteous indignation glossed right over: this sort of online roleplay is inarguably a popular trope, setting guys up for blackmail or arrest. This is a real risk. This NEEDS to be discussed. Sure, "harmless" at the chatroom level, & sustainable so long as the fantasizer doesn't begin showing signs of some neurotic-obsessive need "just to meet, & talk, that's all, just talk."
to-catch-a-predator.jpg
 
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If I learned my partner fantasized about and role-played having incestuous sex with an underage "daughter," it would make me sick to my stomach and I seriously don't think I could stay with him. And, in my opinion, it's not so-called "sex negative" for me to say that.
 
There was absolutely no mention of age in the OP so anyone crying child rape - please know that the kink doesn't always involve that. Furthermore, father-daughter fantasies are often written* as coming of age stories. And of course there are different ages of consent depending on your country. Here (NZ) it is 16. My bf, at that age, was 23. At 17 my fwb was 34. I didn't call him daddy. He called me by my name. But I get the desire of young women to have older men lead the way.

But there was absolutely no mention of age in the OP - nor an indication that the OP had an actual problem with the kink in and of itself. Just that it was expressed with another woman online, under cheating conditions (hidden until discovered), and feelings, then with the hope that one day it might be consummated one day. Jab, cross, uppercut.

You're right, Louise, you didn't sign up for this. I hope in the month and a bit since the OP you've started some counselling to determine what your life is going to look like going forward.

But the kink itself as a problem? I didn't see that. Would you like to comment, Louise?

Kia kaha
Evie



*short-fiction.co.uk has a bunch, and of course they do have to be of age for the country of publication, which isn't the same the world over.
 
I can read very well. I understand that the OP did not mention the father-daughter incest role-playing as being the primary issue. I understand that what is hurting her most is the "love" he says he feels for someone he only knows online, and how certain things that were special between the OP and her husband now feel degraded and not special anymore because he has shared these things with his online object of affection. I understand that he is being manipulative in a way by saying he'll give up the young woman but it will kill him to do so. I understand that the husband is constantly texting the online chick and the OP feels she has to compete for his attention.

I understand ALL that. Like I said, I can read pretty darn well.

Still, I offered my opinion, and there is nothing wrong with my opinion. For me, all of the issues mentioned above would be moot. Simply put, I could no longer be with a man who fantasized about being a father having sex with his daughter. I could not look him in the eye anymore. I would cringe if he touched me. I would never want to be with someone who even thinks such thoughts. I think that kind of role-playing is different from the kind of D/s exchange where subs call their dom "Daddy."

I lost my virginity at age 14, with my boyfriend who was 19 at the time. I was sexually active all through my teenage years after that. My reaction isn't about the age of consent. It's more about father-daughter incest being appealing to someone.

The OP stated that she feels she is compromising herself and her own needs. She wonders if she is being too reasonable, too understanding and patient. In her words, the "life rug has been ripped out from under" her. She has no point of reference for any of this, and says she isn't sure how she should react. And so I offered my view. Call me "sex-negative" if you want, it doesn't matter. I feel it is important for the OP to see others' views on this. Not everyone is going to be perfectly fine with his actions. Not everyone is simply going to brush off what he did as just another kink that should be acceptable because he and his online paramour are adults.

All I know is that my view of a partner who thinks it's a sexy, hot idea that a grown adult man could have sex with his underage daughter, would immediately turn me off to that person, even if it was all "just" fantasy and role-play. Ewww. If my husband or partner ever took it far enough to actually engage in online role-playing with someone pretending to be his daughter -- even if that someone was a consenting adult-- the relationship between him and me would immediately end. That's my opinion, and I feel it is a valid to offer a viewpoint that could help the OP see the situation more fully. To me, the rest of the shit that the OP is dealing with -- the jealousy, competition, loss of specialness and his attentions, etc. -- would all be secondary to that fact.
 
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The aspect that I disagree with is the husband seeming to call what he has done "poly." When it appears more to be in line with an emotional affair and now bordering on cheating.

He kept this aspect of himself hidden, for his own reasons. What he has done is broken trust. He didn't tell his wife, the OP. He was found out.

Now he's it seems he's making demands, possibly emotionally blackmailing and appears unstable in his infatuation.

The other element that concerns me is the statement regarding controlling in the relationship.

There's a lot of red flags. Too many to go into on a board. My advice to the OP would be to seek out a therapist with experience dealing with emotional affairs, and can deal with relationships that have issues with power and control.

I would ask, just because I wonder, is there any history of violence in the relationship?

Also, is the other woman, of legal age?

I understand the OP doesn't have friends and family who would have very strong reactions to this but a local, on the ground, support system is needed right now.
 
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