Hinge Under Pressure

[VeryVery]

Hello everyone! It's my first time posting here! I've been reading these messages for a while now, it's always helpful to see that we're never alone in these situations. It's unfortunate that my first post is inspired by less-than-fun events!

Necessary backstory: My husband B and i have been married for 5 years, together for 7. We started monogamously but always talked about opening up. Early 2019, after an episode of drunken infidelity (and immediate honestly about it) we decided to try opening up. Our sex drives have always been different, mine being borderline-demisexual, so we knew right away that he would have more partners, and I would have fewer that would each last a while. My husband and I live together, still check in every day, and have immense love for each other, and a now-thriving sex life.

Over the last year and a half, we've experimented. He has seen, in sequence, about 6 or 7 different women, all variations of intense flings or friends-with-benefits. He's been disappointed because he now realises he wants more long-term relationships, and he's having trouble meeting women, or keeping them interested (he struggled before PandemicTimes too, but obviously everything's more challenging now)

Meanwhile, I had one solid relationship last year for about 9 months, B had lots of jealous issues for quite a while (growing pains), so we went to counseling and read helpful books, etc, we eventually worked it out, but it also helped that he had dates to distract him. That relationship ended for me for natural reasons and i'm still close friends with that guy (he was older and had lots of experience with polyamory)

Now, since March, i've been seeing a new guy, D. We had great luck for a couple months while B was also seeing a new lady, and it was getting more serious for them too. ((aren't those the BEST times, when you're both seeing your own people? so much compersion!!))
D is younger than us and not experienced with non-monogamy, but willing to learn and generally doesn't mind only seeing me once per week (note: this is a sleepover at his place, which is a new step for B and i, but was totally cool when B was seeing his last lady, they had sleepover too), and I've developed deep feelings for D.

FINALLY MY ACTUAL QUESTION: How much of B's issues with me dating D are MY problem? B has work stress, he's recently recovered from a fractured hand, and he was dumped by above mentioned lady, and he's having trouble with all his potential ladies...
I am doing everything I can to balance this. B and I make sure to go out and have super special dates, we have intimate hangouts many nights each week, I make sure i tell him all the time exactly why D is not replacing him, I am trying to comfort him in every way I can.
I still feel so much guilt, because I know that dumping or seriously demoting D would "fix" that... but that's not fair to D or me.

Am i supposed to tell my husband "this is your problem" or is this a sign that maybe Poly isn't working for us... Or should I demote D because he's not truly Poly?
Sometimes B is cool with it, has compersion, etc. And I would love for him to find someone! I try to encourage him to put more effort into dating/ looking around but it only discourages him more when it doesn't work out.
I'm sure a lot of these are common doubts. Wow i wrote a whole novel.

Thanks to anyone who reads this! I hope everyone out there has a great day !

 

[GalaGirl]

I hope you feel better airing some of that out.

FWIW? My 2 cents? Maybe it helps to see it written another way. I sometimes quote because it is a quote and other times to visually block it off.

B STUFF

• B has work stress.
• He's recently recovered from a fractured hand
• He was dumped by above mentioned lady
• He having trouble with all his potential ladies.

So far? All B stuff. Nothing to do with you. Other than basic concern like "how's your work stress?" or "how's your hand doing?" or similar. None of that stuff is stuff YOU need to fix or do anything about.

YOU AND B SHARED STUFF

• B and I make sure to go out and have super special dates
• we have intimate hangouts many nights each week

Ok. That is taking care of the (B + you) dyad. I view that as "our shared stufff."

• I am doing everything I can to balance this.
  
• I make sure i tell him all the time exactly why D is not replacing him
• I am trying to comfort him in every way I can.

I am confused. Why do this? Has B asked for this kind of help or reassurance?

Or do you do "automatically" to assuage your own feelings (Anxiety? Guilt? Stress?) that things are going well for you right now and not so great for B?

I believe one does thinking or action behavior. Then feelings ensue.

I still feel so much guilt, because I know that dumping or seriously demoting D would "fix" that... but that's not fair to D or me.

What order does this come in? Like this? Or something else?

1) I believe B and me have to date "the same" to "be fair." B is broken up right now. I am dating D. It is not the same then.

2) I think about dumping D to make it "fair."

3) Then I feel guilty because that's NOT actually fair to me or D

If so, maybe you need to update your belief rather than dump D or sit around guilt tripping yourself.

You and B have different relationships. Sometimes both of you will have other dating partners. Sometimes neither will. Sometimes just you. Sometimes just him.

Do you see this as a "thing that I have to feel bad about" rather than just "Life happens how it does?"

If so? Could change from

(I believe that both sides have to be exactly the same to be fair)

to

(I believe that both sides having the ability to date (and letting those relationships develop how they will) is fair enough.) How it actually turns out, is not in my control.

instead.

Am i supposed to tell my husband "this is your problem" or is this a sign that maybe Poly isn't working for us... Or should I demote D because he's not truly Poly?

How about you let B deal with his recent break up how he wants to deal with it? Offer simple help that is appropriate -- can you get him dinner? Take a walk? Need to listen to his story?

https://goodlifezen.com/21-ways-to-comfort-a-friend-in-crisis/

But don't leap in to "fix" anything for him. It's not your job to fix his stuff for him.

Sometimes B is cool with it, has compersion, etc.

So where is the problem? B sometimes being sad and sometimes compersive after a recent break up sounds ok to me. He is grieving a loss. Can't expect him to be all yippy skippy after a break up.

And I would love for him to find someone! I try to encourage him to put more effort into dating/ looking around but it only discourages him more when it doesn't work out.

Why are you pushing him to date if he's still in break up grief? This just happened, right?

Can't you be ok with him figuring out when he's ready on his own? Maybe he wants to wait til work is less stressy. Or his hand is mended.

Or are you pushing him to date to fix YOUR anxious or guilty feelings that you have someone right now and he doesn't?

I think you could care about your spouse B in appropriate ways. And let his stuff be his stuff.

And figure out if/when/where YOUR feelings are clouding the view.

To me it's like there's no problem here for anyone to fix. I mean, yeah, it stinks to break up. But not everyone one dates will be a long haul runner. Fact of life. So B has to do his "recently broke up" self care right now.

Why's him doing that awful to you?

WHO is pressuring you? I can't tell from your writing. Could it be you are the one pressuring yourself unnecessarily? Is B wanting you to dump D or something?

Galagirl

 

[VeryVery]

Reply to GalaGirl

OMG that really does help to block it off like that. Thank you so much for your insightful reply!

Quote:
I am doing everything I can to balance this.
I make sure i tell him all the time exactly why D is not replacing him
I am trying to comfort him in every way I can.

I am confused. Why do this? Has B asked for this kind of help or reassurance?
Or do you do "automatically" to assuage your own feelings (Anxiety? Guilt? Stress?) that things are going well for you right now and not so great for B?

Both, B has asked for these assurances, and I put it on myself. Because it hurts me to see him hurting. And it's hard to go out and have fun when I know he's sad. {{Edit: I don't feel the need to "fix" every time he's sad, but when i'm about to have a date with D, my husband does tend to blame me for his sadness. He gets over it/ knows it's irrational/ apologizes later}}

The guilt comes from me wanting to protect B, when he has a bad reaction to me having a date with D. Not guilt about what i'm doing with D.
That thought helps reassure me sometimes. We are doing what we agreed upon, and we both know it's impossible to keep dating "even" (we know logically that fairness and evenness are not the same)

Quote:
Sometimes B is cool with it, has compersion, etc. And I would love for him to find someone! I try to encourage him to put more effort into dating/ looking around but it only discourages him more when it doesn't work out.
Why are you pushing him to date if he's still in break up grief? Can't he figure out when he's ready on his own? Maybe he wants to wait til work is less stressy. Or his hand is mended.

Or are you pushing him to date to fix YOUR anxious or guilty feelings that you have someone right now and he doesn't?

I wouldn't say I'm pushing him to date. It's more like I remind him it's an option when he says he's feeling lonely or unattractive or like he'll never find someone. His main anxiety now seems to come from the fact that I have a long term partner and he doesn't, which is what he WANTS. Textbook jealousy. And he knows it.
As far as i know, he's not so much grieving about the loss of the last lady and his hand, as he is using these instances to accentuate why he's going through an extra rough time right now, and he feels like i'm making it worse by continuing with D.

I don't want this to sound like some rant about my husband. There's one more issue, which is that D isn't ready to meet him yet, which causes some more tension. I'm a little disappointed in D for that, but I can't force him. And I also have put my foot down about that with B, who insists i shouldn't see someone who isn't "poly like us" {{edit: D is essentially monogamous}}

I suppose I feel pressure from both sides because D reacts a coolly whenever i mention that B might need some extra TLC. But i believe D's also correct, that I shouldn't feel pressured to cancel a date just because B was cancelled on (for example). So I feel like, if i concede to B and say "ok i'll stay home with you tonight" he'll be "happy", but D will be disappointed. Sometimes it feels like I must disappoint one of them.

I don't really have anyone to talk to about this... but this helped validate what i suspected, that we're probably just dealing with more growing pains, likely heightened by our new friend Covid

thank you so much

 

[FallenAngelina]

.... should I demote D because he's not truly Poly?

Why do you say that D (please give him a name!) is not true poly?

Do you know that compersion is not a requirement in polyamory? Awareness and consent are, but not compersion.

aren't those the BEST times, when you're both seeing your own people? so much compersion!!

Sounds like your emotional poly agreement is based on same-sies, which is a very unstable foundation for a polyamorous couple.

 

[VeryVery]

reply to FallenAngelina

That's a very reassuring sentiment! Having felt both jealousy and compersion myself, I hope for compersion from all parties but you're absolutely right, it's not mandatory!

And the use of "true poly" was a label put on my relationship with D from outside forces. Aside from mutual consent, i know there are so many different ways to be polyamorous.
I know something like this can be more challenging than say, kitchen-table poly, but i also don't think it affects my husband as much as he thinks. He wants to meet D, which D isn't ready for yet. That's really the only thing that goes "against" our established agreement.

Thank you so much for your input! (I use initials because both of my mens have very unique and distinctive names. i'm sure they wouldn't care to be mentioned here, but it seemed like polite discretion

 

[GalaGirl]

Thank you for more info. That helps.

SHORT VERSION

In light of new info, I think you could stop pressuring yourself so much to fix things for your spouse. Be ok with him being upset after a break up and having to figure himself and his own things out.

And be LESS ok with him acting out at you right before your dates with D. Ask him to stop this poor behavior. It's ok to be sad or upset. It's not ok to act out at you. Much less right before you leave for your date. What's that all about?

LONG VERSION

I am doing everything I can to balance this.
I make sure i tell him all the time exactly why D is not replacing him
I am trying to comfort him in every way I can.

You sound like you are doing enough to me. You reassure B verbally. You plan special dates and quality time with B. You listen to B air out and comfort him. That's all fine.

I think if B throws a tantrum right before you go out with D? Could tell him to stop that behavior.

You could put the responsibility for his emotional management back on B where it belongs. How about you ask B what he needs to actually be reassured? Behavior he wants you to start doing/stop doing? Is it rational and realistic? Are you willing and able to do it? If yes, you try to do it. If no, you say "No, thanks. Not willing and able to do that."

And leave it be.

And ask what does B plan to do to reassure himself? So as not to trip his own self up? Behavior he can start/stop doing?

Because you "always telling him D is not replacing him" is not working. You don't need to be "the never ending bucket filler" only to become drained of energy yourself.

Who is kicking over B's bucket? Or is it B himself doing it? Like he thinks things and upsets his own self and kicks his own bucket over? Like he's either acting in at himself or acting out at you? Is that what's going on over there?

Both, B has asked for these assurances, and I put it on myself. Because it hurts me to see him hurting. And it's hard to go out and have fun when I know he's sad.

B being sad from a break up is neither yours nor D's fault. It's ok for you to have a date with D even if B is broken up with his lady. It is possible to feel more than one thing at a time. Like feel compassion for B that he is grieving his break up, and at the same time still feel happy to spend time with D. It's not being disloyal to B.

It is also ok for the (you + D) dyad to have its own space. And for you to have personal boundaries around that. Like "No, husband. Just because you are my husband doesn't mean I have to tell you everything going on with me and D. Calendar? Yes. Safer sex practices? Yes. But this doesn't have to be KTP model and def no TMI."

I don't feel the need to "fix" every time he's sad, but when i'm about to have a date with D, my husband does tend to blame me for his sadness. He gets over it/ knows it's irrational/ apologizes late.

So is THAT the actual problem? Blue is mine.

• B thinks you are responsible for his sadness. (not realistic, not reasonable.)
  
• He is also jealous you have another partner right now and he doesn't. (Such is life. Dating is not going to be "even." So he could deal with his envy -- wishing he had what you had -- in more appropriate ways.)
  
• He waits until right before you are going to have a date with D. Then he picks RIGHT THEN to start a fight or blame storm with you. (This is poor behavior.)
  
• And even though later he apologizes and acknowledges it it irrational? You don't like him acting out at you like that. You want him to stop this behavior. And you want you to stop playing into it. Is that it?

The guilt comes from me wanting to protect B, when he has a bad reaction to me having a date with D.

Protect B from WHAT? Feelings happen. Sunny days or stormy skies -- they all pass eventually if one lets it. So one just rides them out.

Or do you mean protect YOU from any B unpleasantness right before a date night with D?

Cuz what part of this is a surprise? You both have been poly dating other people for a while.

I think you could ask B more directly to stop acting out at you and stop blaming you. You have no control over the Lady breaking up with him or not. You are not the cause of his sadness.

That thought helps reassure me sometimes. We are doing what we agreed upon, and we both know it's impossible to keep dating "even" (we know logically that fairness and evenness are not the same)

It sounds like maybe the problem is B dealing with his emotional management on his own and not putting it on you.

Like why's be blaming you for his sadness? YOU didn't make the lady break up with him. Did he behave like this with her? Acting out at her? Is that part of the reason she broke up with him? And now he's making you be like the emotional punching bag cuz you are the one left?

I wouldn't say I'm pushing him to date. It's more like I remind him it's an option when he says he's feeling lonely or unattractive or like he'll never find someone. His main anxiety now seems to come from the fact that I have a long term partner and he doesn't, which is what he WANTS. Textbook jealousy. And he knows it.

Well, maybe he could use the time to evaluate how he dates, how he manages his emotions, and what makes him a good dating partner. Again.. that's for him to solve. Not you.

As far as i know, he's not so much grieving about the loss of the last lady and his hand, as he is using these instances to accentuate why he's going through an extra rough time right now, and he feels like i'm making it worse by continuing with D.

How are you making it worse? Is his expectation that you can only date other people when life is hunky dory for him?

And I also have put my foot down about that with B, who insists i shouldn't see someone who isn't "poly like us" {{edit: D is essentially monogamous}}

He might be "monoamorus" in that he only wants 1 sweetie. And "relationship-shape flexible." Like ok doing monogamy. Or ok being an end point person in a V or N or whatever. If he was strictly monogamous and wanting 1:1 relating only, what's he doing here?

Have you asked D if he's strictly monogamous? Because to me that means the person is monoamorous (wants 1 sweetie) and only wants to participate in 1:1 models. Like just those 2 people and that's it. And that is all stuff between you and D to sort out. Not really B's business.

I know something like this can be more challenging than say, kitchen-table poly, but i also don't think it affects my husband as much as he thinks. He wants to meet D, which D isn't ready for yet. That's really the only thing that goes "against" our established agreement.

Husband wants to meet D for what purpose? And husband expects D to be ready when husband wants? Rather than D decides what he is ready for? And B expects you to just make D do it?

What ARE your actual agreements with B? What are the expectations?

I suppose I feel pressure from both sides because D reacts a coolly whenever i mention that B might need some extra TLC.

How is your behavior as a hinge? Maybe D would like (you + D) time to be about (you+D) and not so much (you talking to D about (you+B) things.) Have you considered that? Have you asked D what D might need during this time? Does D need TLC?

But i believe D's also correct, that I shouldn't feel pressured to cancel a date just because B was cancelled on (for example).

Yup. So don't pressure yourself.

So I feel like, if i concede to B and say "ok i'll stay home with you tonight" he'll be "happy", but D will be disappointed. Sometimes it feels like I must disappoint one of them.

How about you just make YOU happy? And manage your calendar in order of commitments made?

"B, I see you are upset. Right I have a prior appointment to keep. (Your date with D.) When I come back, how about we make an appointment for you and me to talk?"

That is fair.

I get it's a bummer for B to feel sad or whatever, but that is not a critical emergency like a taking B to the ER or something.

You might want to talk with both partners about what are acceptable reasons to cancel a date.

B had lots of jealous issues for quite a while (growing pains), so we went to counseling and read helpful books, etc, we eventually worked it out, but it also helped that he had dates to distract him.

Maybe it isn't all worked out yet.

Is everything really healed from the cheating that started all this 1.5 years go? None of that is still lingering, right?

Is it possible for B to return to counseling if he needs more support than you can give him?

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hello VeryVery,

This will be kind of a sucky thought, but I wonder if you and B might need to sit down and determine, what happens if B *never* gets the second partner that he wants, and what happens if you *always* have D? Can B accept that kind of a situation (essentially a V with you as the hinge), or is he only okay with it if he is also a hinge (with you) in a Z/N? If the latter, then you may need to reevaluate whether poly is right for you (as a couple). Of course, it would not be fair to D to break up with him, as you said. D started dating you with the understanding that his relationship with you would be safe/protected. Or perhaps there was no such understanding? I am kind of guessing here to a certain extent. In any case, it's not D's fault that B has a problem with him, nor does D deserve to have you break up with him for B's sake.

I don't mean to come down hard on B, I do feel his pain and disappointment when he gets his hopes up to have a deep and long-lasting relationship with someone, only to have that person keep it casual and then break up with him. To be honest, poly husbands tend to be notoriously hobbled when it comes to finding women who will date them at all. Poly wives tend to have a much easier time of it. An interesting article on this topic is, The Switcheroo: when openers become benchwarmers. The bottom line, is that if you're going to continue with this poly experiment, B is going to need to tighten his belt and brace himself for more of the situation where you have a long-term partner and he doesn't. It's not a fun prospect, but it's the likely reality of the situation. D being monogamous (while D accepts that you have a husband) is (or should be) a secondary concern.

Hopefully these are just growing pains ... but do have a talk with B about the possible/probable long-term prospects. B needs to figure out what he can accept in the long term, and you need to figure out whether breaking up with D is at all an option. At the very least, it seems to me that it is not an option given the current circumstances. But think that through, and solidify in your mind where you stand on that issue. I hope the three of you can work this out; keep us posted on this thread if you're willing.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[vinsanity0]

Nobody uses their partners real names here, but we come up with nicknames for them because single initials confuse some people.

D may never want to meet B. There's nothing wrong with that. I don't formally meet metamours if I can help it.

Some people claim that mono partners aren't poly, but I disagree. To my thinking, if someone is in a polycule they are practicing poly.

I can see where B might get worried that mono D might try to cowboy you away, but he has to deal with his feelings on that. I wouldn't be so blunt as to tell someone it's their problem and deal with it. I would maybe ask them how working through their feelings is going.

As has been said, there are always going to be periods where one of you has a partner and the other doesn't. Or maybe one will have more partners than the other. That has nothing to do with each other's relationships. You shouldn't feel guilty if he doesn't have another partner. All you can do is be there for B like you have been.

 

[Dagferi]

Other members here are much more detailed in their posts. Honestly I do not have the time nor the energy to construct long detailed posts. Plus I am just direct and to the point kind of person anyway. Please do not think I am criticizing you...

B's insecurities are his to deal with. It is not your job to reassure him or play favorites. The only thing you owe him is to be an ethical partner.

That said demoting D because he is monogamous would be an pretty crappy move. Both my husbands are monogamous. I have been with Butch 19 years and Murf 8 years. They have extremely little to do with each other. Both are not fans of kitchen table poly and prefer parallel poly. Neither Butch nor Murf gets a say in my relationship with the other. They may request things but I do not allow my relationships to bleed over into the other.

Sometimes fair is not always equal.

 

[FallenAngelina]

I use initials because both of my mens have very unique and distinctive names.

Most of us use nicknames. Please give your men names.

And the use of "true poly" was a label put on my relationship with D from outside forces.

I'm getting the sense that even though you know that there are many ways to be poly, you're buying into this person's judgement that there is such a thing as "true poly." What kind of poly situation do you want? What is your heart's desire here?

 

[GalaGirl]

Maybe go with generic animals?

Like "B" could be "Beaver" or "Badger."

And "D" could be "Deer" or "Dolphin."

Or it could be colors.

"B" could be "blue, black, blonde, buff"

"D" could be "denim" or "DarkRed"

Or plants. Or food. Or whatever. It does help to have more than just initials as names.

Galagirl

 

[Magdlyn]

I was calling them Boo and Darling in my head.

 

[VeryVery]

Let's call them Brad (husband) and Damien

In light of new info, I think you could stop pressuring yourself so much to fix things for your spouse. Be ok with him being upset after a break up and having to figure himself and his own things out.
-originally posted by GalaGirl

It is also ok for the (you + D) dyad to have its own space. And for you to have personal boundaries around that. Like "No, husband. Just because you are my husband doesn't mean I have to tell you everything going on with me and
-originally posted by GalaGirl

These points especially resonated with me, and made me realize I was super vague with my question in my original post. What's putting me under pressure right now is that Brad has all these stresses, and while we're not going to give up on Poly Life, he sometimes asks for me to take a break with Damien. Like a couple of weeks. While he's going through "all this".

I can see how me going out so much can add to his stress, but the core point there (that he's working on) is that me going out SHOULDN'T stress him out. He is considering counseling. For his stress management.

I know that Damien wouldn't be ok with taking a break like that just for Brad's sake, (Damien has his own mental health issues that he deals with, basically alone, every day), and I wouldn't like it either. Of course on one hand it would be a relief to see Brad calming down, but on the other hand it feels like we just got to a place where I see Damien enough that he is feeling secure. And I like seeing him that much (about every 5 days to a week)
Brad believes that Damien not being ok with this kind of break is the sign that he's not compatible with our style of poly.

But aside from physical emergencies, I'm not sure when it's appropriate to abandon Damien. My instinct is that since I already have only limited time with him, I shouldn't abandon him at all, and I want to honor our plans and dates.

I think if the situation was reversed, I wouldn't make a scene about Brad getting involved with a long term partner, and I don't tend to ask for help with my emotional crises anyways, but Brad is a big ol' softy in that way. So I can see (from his perspective) how me not being there for him EXACTLY when he needs me can seem like a betrayal.

but I wonder if you and B might need to sit down and determine, what happens if B *never* gets the second partner that he wants, and what happens if you *always* have D?
-Originally posted by kdt26417

This is a really good point, and I think it helps put it into perspective.
In the last few days I have had some (more) big talks with Brad, and to be honest we still aren't 100% sure Poly is right for us. It still feels like we're trying an experiment. We both agree we are able to have love for multiple people at once so that's what keeps us going, to push through jealousies and insecurities.

But of course the struggle is... how long do we keep pushing? Like I'm sure things will calm down again if/ when Brad has someone to distract him, but of course that's not the point here.

Have many of you had growing pains like these? Please keep in mind we went from a life of Mononormativity. Have any of you known people who got scared and gave up on the Poly life? Any advice is welcome. Especially since the main things that Brad has suggested i could do to make him feel properly cared for (to meet Damien, for me to see Damien less, for me to break up with Damien) are not acceptable to me.

How are you making it worse? Is his expectation that you can only date other people when life is hunky dory for him?
-Originally posted by GalaGirl

Nailed it. Basically yes. When I pointed it out to him this clearly, it's so obvious that that isn't fair to me, or logical. It just feels like we have to go over the same points too often. Which is why counselling for his stress management is probably a great next step. I didn't realize this post would turn into a "my husband needs therapy" session!

He might be "monoamorus" in that he only wants 1 sweetie. And "relationship-shape flexible." Like ok doing monogamy. Or ok being an end point person in a V or N or whatever. If he was strictly monogamous and wanting 1:1 relating only, what's he doing here?

Have you asked D if he's strictly monogamous? Because to me that means the person is monoamorous (wants 1 sweetie) and only wants to participate in 1:1 models. Like just those 2 people and that's it. And that is all stuff between you and D to sort out. Not really B's business
-originally posted by GalaGirl

I did gloss over Damien a little at the beginning of the post. He doesn't have much experience with relationships... in general.

He knew as soon as we met that I had a husband and that my husband was cool with me dating, and accepted that he wouldn't be able to see me as often as he would want (vague).
But I didn't have a specific list of rules and guidelines to present to him yet, (aside from sexual safety/ health) because husband and I hasn't really laid them out for ourselves yet (every relationship has been different so far, with Damien being the most intense of all of them, challenging our expectations of our new relationship style).
He has expressed that he is open to seeing multiple people in the future, and he likes the freedom of being able to discuss it with me (i'm totally ok with that). But he does know that in the farther future, he is mostly interested in secure monogamy, co-habitation, marriage, children, etc.

I worry/feel guilt that I've messed up by getting involved with Damien. Knowing that we're seeing each other "for now" and that it won't last forever (tbh I felt that overhanging doom about my last extramarital relationship, too).
I can't help that we hit it off/have chemistry/ have fun. I don't want to just end what we have, because we know it won't "go anywhere". But of course I worry the longer we see each other, the more painful it will be when we do break up/ fizzle out.

This is also a factor in Brad's concern/ part of why he's upset that I keep going out and seeing this guy.

Thanks again everyone for taking some time to chat about this!

 

[GalaGirl]

I don't think Brad is a horrible person. I do think Brad is hitting some things now that you are both further along in your poly practice. And he has to figure himself out and sort out realistic expectations from unrealistic ones.

The novelty is wearing off. Like "whee, we both get to date!" and the reality is sinking in. "Oh. Sometimes my spouse will be busy with other partners and not always here" and "Oh. Sometimes I have to deal with things myself." and "Oh. I don't get to tell my spouse how to date."

It's that "first year forming, second year storming, third year norming" kinda thing.

Poly has a way of shining a light on a lot of things in marriage.

How are you making it worse? Is his expectation that you can only date other people when life is hunky dory for him?

Nailed it. Basically yes. When I pointed it out to him this clearly, it's so obvious that that isn't fair to me, or logical. It just feels like we have to go over the same points too often. Which is why counselling for his stress management is probably a great next step.

It's not a realistic or fair expectation. It puts you and Damien's relationship at the mercy of Brad's moods.

Glad Brad is seeking counseling to manage his stress more appropriately.

Brad believes that Damien not being ok with this kind of break is the sign that he's not compatible with our style of poly.

Could say "Ok, Brad. I hear you. You want me to take a break with Damien. I am not willing to take a break at this time."

And leave it there. Brad expressed his opinion. You express where you stand. And do nothing else. Because Brad isn't dating Damien. The one Damien has to be compatible with is you.

You don't want to take a break either. Does Brad think that make you incompatible with "our style poly" -- which is really Brad's style?

But aside from physical emergencies, I'm not sure when it's appropriate to abandon Damien. My instinct is that since I already have only limited time with him, I shouldn't abandon him at all, and I want to honor our plans and dates.

So go with that. Honor your commitments in order made. If there's some sort of family emergency going on, make Damien aware and don't make plans for new dates til the emergency calms down.

You end things with Damien when you no longer want to date him. Or Damien ends it with you. That's all stuff between you and Damien. Not anything to do with Brad.

I think if the situation was reversed, I wouldn't make a scene about Brad getting involved with a long term partner, and I don't tend to ask for help with my emotional crises anyways, but Brad is a big ol' softy in that way. So I can see (from his perspective) how me not being there for him EXACTLY when he needs me can seem like a betrayal.

Does Brad expect you to be emotionally available to him at the drop of a hat? Brad thinks that you are betraying him if you are not available like that? Is this a realistic/rational expectation of a spouse?

Brad doesn't get "insta-dibs" on all your free time or emotional labor just because he is your spouse. And picking fights right before you go out on a date? That's not great behavior.

Especially since the main things that Brad has suggested i could do to make him feel properly cared for (to meet Damien, for me to see Damien less, for me to break up with Damien) are not acceptable to me.

You ARE doing these things.

• I am doing everything I can to balance this.
• B and I make sure to go out and have super special dates
• we have intimate hangouts many nights each week
• I make sure i tell him all the time exactly why D is not replacing him
• I am trying to comfort him in every way I can.

Does Brad not count these behaviors as you demonstrating care for Brad?

I'm also not hearing any new CLEAR requests for help from Brad. Is he good at articulating that? Like...

"I feel ___. I need some help with ____. Could you be willing to help me? When would be a good time?"

All I read so far is more "Damien this and that."

• What does meeting Damien DO for Brad? Is it he is afraid? He needs help knowing you aren't going off with some psycho? He wants to solve it by meeting Damien. Damien doesn't want to meet. Could that be solved another way?

• What does you seeing Damien less do for Brad? You only see him every 5-7 days. Is it the day? Change to seeing him on Sunday rather than Saturday? Could that solve it?

• What does taking a break do for Brad? Like if you took a break from Damien, what would change for Brad? What would he focus on or do now that his brain isn't on Damien? And could that be done anyway?

But of course the struggle is... how long do we keep pushing? Like I'm sure things will calm down again if/ when Brad has someone to distract him, but of course that's not the point here.

But is that really Brad coping? Or just using someone else as distraction?

How long you keep pushing -- you all pick. You also have to talk about happens at the end of say a year, 2 years. Whatever time frame you picked.

What if you discover at the end of that time that Brad wants to go back to Closed and you want to stay Open. Then what?

(Damien) has expressed that he is open to seeing multiple people in the future, and he likes the freedom of being able to discuss it with me (i'm totally ok with that). But he does know that in the farther future, he is mostly interested in secure monogamy, co-habitation, marriage, children, etc.

So Damien seems fine with this for now. Eventually he's going to want marriage and children, and that's not going to be with you.

I'd say enjoy it for what it is for how long it lasts. ALL relationships, even the one with Brad, comes with a clock attached.

I know mine with my spouse does. I'd like it to be "til death do us part" the physical way -- like one of us is old and dies. But that remains to be seen. All I can do is participate in my relationships well and hope for the best. It's not like "over hanging doom" to me. It's like "People are precious. Appreciate the gift that is them in my life."

I can't help that we hit it off/have chemistry/ have fun. I don't want to just end what we have, because we know it won't "go anywhere". But of course I worry the longer we see each other, the more painful it will be when we do break up/ fizzle out.

That's the price of admission to dating people. You get to feel things. Some of them will be fun, some of the feelings are not so fun.

You also get to learn how to be in a relationship that is NOT on the relationship escalator.

This is also a factor in Brad's concern/ part of why he's upset that I keep going out and seeing this guy.

Huh? Brad is upset you keep going out with Damien because one day you and Damien will break up? How is this a problem for Brad?

FWIW, this doesn't sound horrible to me. It sounds like learning to share time and attention when the spouse has another long term partner. From the sound of it, Damien is the first one you have had. And it's the first time Brad has to deal with it. Eventually if Brad finds a long term partner, the shoe will be on the other foot and you will have to learn to deal with it.

Don't know if any of these help you.

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/downloadabledocuments.html

http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles

https://openingup.net/resources/free-downloads-from-opening-up/

https://www.morethantwo.com/

Galagirl

 

[FallenAngelina]

Have any of you known people who got scared and gave up on the Poly life?

Here's the thing: Even if you give up on poly because you are scared, you are still you and your marriage is still your marriage. As Galalgirl points out, poly has a way of shining a bright spotlight on pre-exisiting relationship issues. Poly didn't make your issues and ending your poly agreement can't erase your issues. Poly has shown you clearly what the problems are. Now what?

I have experience with a poly relationship and am now monogamous, but I didn't give up on poly because I was scared. Through my experience with both structures, it became clear to me which feels much more satisfying, sustainable and fulfilling. I didn't leave poly out of fear, I moved toward monogamy which called to me. I'd say that if you're running from anything out of fear, it's good to seek emotional safety, but it's also worthwhile to look more deeply into what that fear is all about. Running away from poly won't make this fear go away because your fear is yours. You will take it with you into the next chapter if you don't look more deeply at what it is trying to say to you.