How to Handle Tensions Between Partners in a Triad(?)

[MissHBee]

About a year ago, I met up with a married couple in order to engage in our mutual (nonsexual, or at least sexually-adjacent) kink. We all really hit it off, we ended up having several threesomes, and I kept seeing them. We'll call the members of the couple Cicada and Acorn.

I had been involved in non-monogamy before, mostly in the kink context, but I have never considered myself polyamorous. My partners have had kink and sex partners consistently throughout their marriage, but the nature of my relationships with them are different than any they've had previously.

Since becoming involved with them, I have done a lot of reading about polyamory, specifically around the topics of unicorns and triads. I understand that the relationships I've chosen are considered to be difficult and risky (especially given the threesome origins), but I've compared the qualities of my relationships to the problematic aspects of unicorn hunting and classic triad problems and as far as I can tell, we seem to be avoiding them (though I am very open to hearing others' concerns or aspects that I might be missing, being fairly new to this).

There are a number of people in my life who know about these relationships and I can talk to about them, but no one who is polyamorous themselves. I have some friends who are supportive and others who are not (i.e., are concerned for me and think that this situation is bound to hurt me). I do have a poly-friendly therapist, who is supportive.

Some of the key aspects of the situation: Cicada and Acorn live together (with one young child), I live in my own apartment by myself. I almost always spend Friday - Sunday at their house, unless I or they are traveling. I often invite one or the other to spend Thursday nights with me in my home.

In terms of how we spend time together, I would say that probably less than half of it is all three of us together. More often, I spend time with one of them while the other does their own thing. Our relationships feel very separate to me — in many ways, I feel like I have two separate relationships and those people happen to have a relationship with each other, rather than us being all in the same relationship. This largely feels good to me. It means I never feel like "the third," or like their relationship takes precedence over one of mine. But it also means that we rarely have serious conversations all together, or discuss our relationships as a group, even though we do spend time altogether fairly regularly.

My two relationships are each different and focus on different things, but I love both Cicada and Acorn and I am very happy with each of our dyads. I have had no problems with how I've been treated in this situation — they are each loving and welcoming to me. I feel like I have great communication with each of them, and that my relationship with each of them is strong.

I will say that I feel closer with Cicada than Acorn, due to a number of reasons (personality, relationship desires, some logistical reasons). But that doesn't usually feel like a problem to me, it feels like the relationships are each finding their own place.

(I think) Cicada and Acorn are each happy with the nature of our relationships, as well. The triad, if it is a triad, is not formally closed, and I have had other kink partners outside of it. But realistically, it is moving in a functionally closed direction, though I'm sure that the possibility for other partners will always remain on the table.

My problem is with Cicada and Acorn's relationship. Slowly, as I've gotten to know them better, I've realized that their relationship has some significant cracks in it and that they both feel it. (I've not gone into these conflicts here, really, but I can if it's helpful.)

In some ways, I think that perhaps part of the reason that these relationships feel so good (and so easy) to me is that there is very little opportunity for competition or jealousy, because I have the majority of each of their romantic/sexual attention. I have a hard time telling if this is something I should be worried about or not. When it comes to spending time with either of them one-on-one, it doesn't feel like a problem — occasionally one of them (more often Acorn) will complain about the other, or mention some argument or disagreement they've had, and I am okay with providing some emotional support, and redirecting the conversation and setting boundaries if it gets to be too much for me. But recently, I've really started to notice it when it comes to spending time altogether, most dramatically in a sexual context. (I don't want to overshare with sexual details if it's not appropriate for this board, so I won't be explicit, but I am comfortable talking about it if it's helpful.) Some of it is that they will sometimes have minor squabbles in front of me, which I don't like. (I am very sensitive to conflict, which is something I'm working on in therapy, and it is hard for me to tell how much is reasonable to ask of other people regarding not having disagreements in my presence.) But some of it is something kind of different, a sort of tension that I don't know how to handle.

The best way I can describe it is, I think, that sometimes when we are all together (either literally all together, or just all in the same house), Acorn wants more attention from Cicada, and feels left out from our dyad, which makes me feel like I am getting in between them. I've expressed this concern to Acorn, who said that I shouldn't worry, it's not my responsibility, and anything I sense along these lines is just about Acorn and Cicada working on their relationship.

I appreciate that, but it still makes me very uncomfortable. I think the place that I get stuck in is that I like Cicada's attention, so I don't want to discourage it, but feel bad engaging with it when I sense that Acorn wants to be involved or wants to share in it. I feel sometimes like Cicada is not sensitive enough to this balance (being a bad hinge, maybe?). But I also understand (through observation), that the situation is more complicated than that — that when I'm not around, Acorn doesn't really want much attention from Cicada at all, and definitely not sexual attention. This sometimes makes me feel a little resentful towards Acorn. ("Why do you only want this attention when you see me getting it? You live with Cicada and have most of the week to enjoy each other's company if you want it!")

I also feel like part of the problem may be that often Cicada wants one-on-one time with me, but it is unwilling to explicitly say that to Acorn, preferring to take advantage of times when Acorn is naturally busy with other things or doesn't want to be involved. This leads to awkwardness when we do end up all three together, in my opinion, but it's a very under-the-surface awkwardness.

So far, I've been handling this situation by focusing on my own dyads and my own actions only. As I mentioned above, I talked with Acorn when I first began to notice this problem, and I was able to have that conversation in a way that focused on our own relationship (making sure that I was giving Acorn enough attention and that I wasn't an obstacle to their dyad). But I haven't talked to Cicada yet, because I'm not sure what to say. Is it my place or my job to tell Cicada how to treat Acorn "better"? Should I just leave it alone and hope that they will figure it out between each other? But then how do I navigate this awkwardness between the three of us that feels so uncomfortable to me? I'm having a harder time figuring out how to have a conversation about this situation that is focused on our relationship and doesn't feel like me meddling in theirs.

In the longer run, I suppose that I could stop having threesomes with them. (I actually might do this. I am happy with my independent sexual relationship with each of them, and after a recent one that didn't go very well, in my opinion, at least, I think they might not be worth it. And we don't do them very often anyway.) And I could move to spending even less time with the two of them together, though that would not really be my preference, for several reasons. I just can't find the line here between acknowledging that their dynamic does of course have an effect on me, and respecting that their relationship is separate from mine, and I have to let them work it out themselves (or not, which is more the issue).

I sometimes worry that they have become comfortable with a certain level of conflict/discontent in their relationship, but that I am not comfortable witnessing it, so they are not particularly motivated to work out issues like this between them — they mostly just ignore it and focus on other things in their life, which includes me.

So I guess the long and short of it is, how do you (or should you?) talk to your partner about them possibly being a bad hinge, especially when you suspect that there are deep-rooted relationship issues that are contributing to this behavior? Or is there some other way that I should be looking at this situation and dealing with it?

 

[GalaGirl]

Here are my impressions. I don't know it they might help you any.

I had been involved in non-monogamy before, mostly in the kink context, but I have never considered myself polyamorous. My partners have had kink and sex partners consistently throughout their marriage, but the nature of my relationships with them are different than any they've had previously. Since becoming involved with them, I have done a lot of reading about polyamory, specifically around the topics of unicorns and triads.

Is this the main problem? You actually are reading and learning about polyamory, but the other two are not. Are they just going from past open/kink dynamics, not doing any work learning about poly dynamics and detangling the couple (both of them), which is compounded by additional problems?

• Approaching everything like a joined-at-the-hip CoupleBlob for too long, forgetting how to be individuals? (Both of them)
• No voice of their own? (Cicada)
• Treating you like a free therapist? (Acorn)
• Hanging around hoping for group sex, when every time you come over is NOT going to be group sex? (Acorn)
• Putting the "original couple" on a pedestal, rather than advocating for your own self and your own dyads? (You, maybe?)

My problem is with Cicada and Acorn's relationship. Slowly, as I've gotten to know them better, I've realized that their relationship has some significant cracks in it and that they both feel it

How that dyad goes is not your responsibility. It's on them.

Occasionally one of them (more often Acorn) will complain about the other, or mention some argument or disagreement they've had. I am okay with providing some emotional support and redirecting the conversation and setting boundaries if it gets to be too much for me.

You might consider setting even stricter boundaries, because you are inside the dating system and cannot be impartial. Acorn could air out with a friend who is totally removed, to help organize their thoughts, and then talk to Cicada directly about it. It's not kind if Acorn treats you like a free marriage counselor. Or Acorn is complaining about your other partner to you. You might tell Acorn you want no more oversharing about problems in the (Acorn + Cicada) dyad with you. It's just NOT appropriate.

But recently, I've really started to notice it when it comes to spending time altogether, most dramatically in a sexual context, (I don't want to overshare with sexual details if it's not appropriate for this board, so I won't be explicit, but I am comfortable talking about it if it's helpful.) Some of it is that they will sometimes have minor squabbles in front of me, which I don't like. (I am very sensitive to conflict, which is something I'm working on in therapy, and it is hard for me to tell how much is reasonable to ask of other people regarding not having disagreements in my presence.) But some of it is kind of different, a sort of tension, that I don't know how to handle.

Are you saying that during group sex, they start arguing with each other in front of you, or that in a group hang-out, they start arguing with each other in front of you?

That's where you get to say, "No, thank you. I'd prefer you solve (Acorn + Cicada) stuff on your own time. It seems like you need privacy for that, so I'm going to cut this trio date short and head home so you can have the room."

And then you go home. You don't have to stick around for meh dates. You CAN cut them short and go home. They might be surprised you are this firm about it. But what do YOU gain? You get to skip this meh date. And hopefully next time in a trio date they can be PRESENT for bowling or whatever it is, and deal with their dyad stuff on their own time.

Group sex is not a requirement in polyamory. Some people like doing both group sex and poly. Some people only want group sex. Some people want only poly. It may be that people were willing, but not actually ABLE, to share group sex here or have group hang-outs at this time. It might be better to keep all dyads separate for a time. And stop sharing group sex.

The best way I can describe it is that I think that sometimes when we are all together (either literally all together, or just all in the same house), Acorn wants more attention from Cicada and feels left out from our dyad, which makes me feel like I am getting in between them.

There is

• Acorn + Cicada
• You + Acorn
• You + Cicada

Acorn's name is nowhere in the (you + Cicada) dyad. They aren't SUPPOSED to be in it. If they have a hard time witnessing (you + Cicada) dates, and you're spent most of your time over there, it might be time to split it more fairly. and have Cicada come to your home for (you + Cicada) dates half the time. Then Acorn won't be around to see it. And you won't have to see Acorn's reactions or adjustments to sharing Cicada's time with you so up close.

You aren't getting between them. You don't sound like you are behaving like a jerk to Acorn or to Cicada. You DO sound like you are over there almost every weekend, and that may have to stop. It's not fair if you never take a turn hosting. It's not fair if Cicada and Acorn don't take a turn coming to you, either.

I've expressed this concern to Acorn, who said that I shouldn't worry, it's not my responsibility, and anything I sense along these lines is just about Acorn and Cicada working on their relationship. I appreciate that, but it still makes me very uncomfortable.

You could believe Acorn on that, and then reduce how much YOU have to see of it. If you and Cicada dates are at your place or in public, you don't have to experience Acorn interrupting because they want Cicada's attention.

If it's a turn to have a (you + Cicada) at Cicada's home, then you and Cicada both need to feel comfortable speaking up if Acorn is hanging about underfoot, like a nosy or annoying roomie. I know you're both dating Acorn, but in THIS context, they are an underfoot roomie.

I think the place where I get stuck is that I like Cicada's attention, so I don't want to discourage it, but feel bad engaging with it when I sense that Acorn wants to be involved or wants to share in it.

Are you talking about general attention, or PDA, or what?

Either way... stop acting like a "guest" in your own (Cicada + you) relationship just because they are the "original couple." So what?

That couple still exists. Now there are two other couples in town called (Acorn + You) and (Cicada + you.)

If Acorn interrupts a date, and Cicada is not doing anything about it, don't be shy about asking Acorn, "Can I help you with something? Otherwise this my and Cicada's couple time, so I'd appreciate some privacy and some space. You and Cicada have your couple time. You and I have our couple time. All dyads need some time on their own."

Be firm.

I feel sometimes like Cicada is not sensitive enough to this balance (being a bad hinge, maybe?). But I also understand (through observation), that the situation is more complicated than that — that when I'm not around, Acorn doesn't really want much attention from Cicada at all, and definitely not sexual attention. This sometimes makes me feel a little resentful towards Acorn. ("Why do you only want this attention when you see me getting it? You live with Cicada and have most of the week to enjoy each other's company if you want it!")

If you and Cicada want to make out, retire to a bedroom where you can close the door. YOU can request it even if Cicada doesn't have the sense to suggest it. Don't make out in common rooms where the "roomie" (Acorn or kid) can walk in on you.

You two CAN make out or share sex without it becoming a group encounter with Acorn involved. Is that why they hang around, interrupting? They're hoping for the novelty group sex, which can't happen if you aren't around?

I also feel like part of the problem may be that often Cicada wants one-on-one time with me, but it is unwilling to explicitly say that to Acorn, preferring to take advantage of times when Acorn is naturally busy with other things or doesn't want to be involved. This leads to awkwardness when we do end up all three together, in my opinion, but a very under-the-surface awkwardness.

You either talk to them about all this in a group or individually. The fact is that yes, sometimes it is all three. But at the same time, all dyads need their their own couple time ALONE. You could even copy and paste that into email, if that's easier.

Or... you start being more firm in your own personal boundaries, even if Cicada wimps out in theirs. You ask Acorn if they need something, and if not, if they could please give some space/privacy, because this is (you + Cicada) couple time.

Or... have more dates with Cicada at your place so Acorn is not underfoot.

Or do something else I can't think of right now.

Or do a combo of the above.

It is YOUR relationship. Advocate for yourself.

You'd do the same thing, right? If it were date night for (you + Acorn) and Cicada was being underfoot/annoying, you would ask Cicada for some space/privacy.

And if it were (Acorn + Cicada) date night, you would make yourself scarce, rather than be underfoot/annoying. You would give them space and privacy.

So why not do it here? Ask Acorn for some space and privacy.

Set and enforce strong personal boundaries all around. That is my suggestion to you.

Galagirl

 

[GalaGirl]

But I haven't talked to Cicada yet, because I'm not sure what to say. Is it my place or my job to tell Cicada how to treat Acorn "better"? Should I just leave it alone and hope that they will figure it out between each other?

You leave (Acorn + Cicada) to deal with it themselves. You ask Cicada why Cicada does speak up when Acorn intrudes on (you + Cicada) dates.

But then how do I navigate this awkwardness between the three of us that feels so uncomfortable to me? I'm having a harder time figuring out how to have a conversation about this situation that is focused on our relationship and doesn't feel like me meddling in theirs.

You get to say, "I feel awkward hanging out as a trio when I don't know if you two are good or what. Are you good? Or are you having disagreements? I don't want to intrude, but at the same time, if the trio vibe is off because you two are having disagreements, perhaps it's better not to hang as a trio right now until y'all are sorted."

Again -- set and enforce strong personal boundaries.

You have every right to cut a trio date short and go home if those two are making it unpleasant to be there.

In the longer run, I suppose that I could stop having threesomes with them (I actually might do this — I am happy with my independent sexual relationship with each of them and after a recent one that didn't go very well, in my opinion at least, I think they might not be worth it. And we don't do them very often anyway.)

That's one less thing to deal with, then. Your consent to share sex in threesomes or not belongs to YOU. If you don't find them fun, you can stop.

And I could move to spending even less time with the two of them together, though that would not really be my preference, for several reasons.

What are the reasons?

I just can't find the line here between acknowledging that their dynamic does, of course, have an affect on me, and respecting that their relationship is separate from mine, and I have to let them work it out themselves (or not, which is more the issue).

It's not your job to be their relationship coach.

I sometimes worry that they have become comfortable with a certain level of conflict/discontent in their relationship, but that I am not comfortable witnessing it, so they are not particularly motivated to work out issues like this between them. They mostly just ignore it and focus on other things in their life, which includes me.

You do not exist to be a distraction from their dyad problems. If they are treating you like the new sex toy to fight over, that's not going to be pleasant either.

So I guess the long and short of it is, how do you (or should you?) talk to your partner about them possibly being a bad hinge, especially when you suspect that there are deep-rooted relationship issues that are contributing to this behavior? Or is there some other way that I should be looking at this situation and dealing with it?

Be direct.

"Cicada, when Acorn interrupts our couple dates, I say something. Why don't you?"

Galagirl

 

[MissHBee]

This is so helpful, Galagirl. Thank you so much! Your response made me realize that the actual underlying issue is that we don't have a formal agreement for how we're going to spend our time. We have a sort of loose routine that's developed organically. So rather than actually having "Cicada + Me" date night and "Acorn + Me" date night, we have these general habits, like, "Acorn prefers to go to bed earlier than Cicada and I, so Cicada + I often watch TV and have sex at night by ourselves," which then can easily turn into "Acorn can't sleep, so comes downstairs to hang out and ends up joining in the sex." And this has happened in the reverse situation, as well. So far, I've just been going along with the idea of "Anyone is welcome to engage with the others at any time, or can choose to have time by themselves," because it has felt fairly well balanced to me. But I see how it's causing the problem here. I suspect that all of us have the idea that we COULD say, "I want to have some alone time with this person right now," but in practice, no one really says that, though maybe they sometimes hint it.

You're also right to point out the issue of where we spend our time. We've defaulted to always spending weekends at Cicada and Acorn's house largely because of their kid. If we're all there, we can take turns with childcare. ( Some of what I'm referring to as "dyad time" with me and one of them, is actually me and one of them, and the kid, which I enjoy.)

But actually, just last week, when the two of us were at my place, Acorn suggested that maybe we could have a weekend per month where just Acorn and I are at my place, and another where just Cicada and I are at my place, and now I'm thinking that's probably a good idea. Then, we could come up with an arrangement for how we spend our time when we're all at their place. This solution isn't perfect for me, because I like being able to spend shorter amounts of time with each of them, rather than going so long without seeing one or the other. I also really enjoy our time all together when things feel good, which is often enough that I get overly optimistic. And there are elements of our routine at their house that I really enjoy and can't be replicated at my apartment — lunch all together at our regular place by their house, Cicada and I working out together with gym equipment they own, we all keep our bikes at their house, we make pizza on Friday nights with their fancy pizza oven, etc. But I do think it's the most practical.

And there are definitely positives that would come with me getting to spend more time in my own apartment. Acorn doesn't ever seem to feel left out if Cicada and I are actually alone together, in fact strongly encourages it, so I really do think that it's this thing of us being "alone together" in a shared space that's the problem, which makes perfect sense to me.

Are you saying that during group sex, they start arguing with each other in from to you? Or that in a group hang out, they start arguing with each other in front of you?

Kind of, but arguing is a strong word. This has happened in both sexual and nonsexual situations. It's more like one or the other of them makes a kind of pointed comment that then gets smoothed over. If they ever get into an actual argument, I will always immediately remove myself from the situation, sometimes possibly too quickly. (I wonder if part of the reason we don't really have serious conversations as a group is because I run away from them!) With the pointed comment or sort of awkward tension, it feels like me leaving or even saying something about it would bring it to the surface in a way I don't want. But that's probably my conflict-avoidant self over-prioritizing smoothing things over and something I should work on.

"I feel awkward hanging out as a trio when I don't know if you two are good or what. Are you good? Or are you having disagreements? I don't want to intrude, but at the same time, if the trio vibe is off because you two are having disagreements, perhaps it's better not to hang as a trio right now, til y'all are sorted."

This is super helpful. I guess I feel this (internal) pressure to have this kind of conversation as a group, except that I find that idea really intimidating. I would much prefer to say this to each of them one-on-one. I guess there's no rulebook that says we have to have big serious group conversations, so maybe I should just follow my instincts, though I worry that there would be some benefit to having group conversations that I'm missing, or that I'm avoiding group conversations for some sort of wrong reason.

Is that why they hang around interrupting? You're hoping for the novelty group sex, which can't happen if you aren't around?

This is an interesting point. Possibly? I do think that Acorn enjoys the group sex more than one-on-one sex, whereas I enjoy it the least. (At least nowadays. I enjoyed it a lot at the beginning, but there have been some shifts in how it tends to happen now that makes it considerably less enjoyable for me.) I suspect that I feel reluctant to "take group sex away" from Acorn, though I know that I have to right to say no to it. I also think that both Cicada and Acorn seem reluctant to acknowledge that their sexual dynamic isn't working, which makes me feel reluctant to draw attention to it. (Again, I see how this is something for me to work on.)

 

[MissHBee]

Is this the main problem? You actually are reading and learning about polyamory and the other two are not. They are just going from past open/kink dynamics? They aren't doing any work on learning about poly dynamics and detangling the couple? (Both of them)

Which is compounded by additional problems:

• Approaching everything like the joined-at-the-hip CoupleBlob for too long? Forgot how to be individuals? (Both of them)
• No voice of their own? (Cicada)
• Treating you like a free therapist? (Acorn)
• Hanging around hoping for group sex, when every time you come over is NOT going to be group sex? (Acorn)
• Putting the "original couple" on a pedestal, rather than advocating for your own self and your own dyads? (You, maybe?)

Ah, this is a really good point. Yes, I think this is true. I think there is a lingering sort of dynamic from their past open kink dynamic, where Cicada did a lot of deferring to Acorn (which explains to me why it seems like Cicada has a perfectly strong voice in their dyad in general, which seems to vanish around this particular issue). And I do think I am not doing the best job of advocating for myself when it comes to the both of them together, though I feel like I'm doing a good job of it in the dyads.

I will say that I don't think the issue around sex is so much Acorn always hoping for group sex, but rather both of them each assuming that all sexual encounters are open to them if they are present and interested, which I do not want to be true. Cicada actually does this too, it just happens less often because Cicada and I have a lot more sex one-on-one than Acorn and I do (which everyone seems to be fine with).

I think the overall point is that these relationships developed in this very organic way, which was lovely and comfortable, but also meant that they're built on some unexamined assumptions that now need to be addressed and either dismantled or explicitly agreed to.

 

[GalaGirl]

Glad it helped you some.

I think the overall point is that these relationships developed in this very organic way, which was lovely and comfortable, but also meant that they're built on some unexamined assumptions that now need to be addressed and either dismantled or explicitly agreed to.

There you go.

It okay for things for things to develop organically. But at the same time, you have to pull up from what you are doing and actually CHECK IN, so it's not just going on auto-pilot.

Otherwise, you will end up eating spaghetti at the Italian place, when nobody actually wanted that, but you didn't want to upset anyone, so you went along, and didn't say you wanted pancakes for dinner. And Cicada didn't want to upset anyone, so went along and didn't say Cicada wanted pancakes for dinner. And Aspen didn't want to upset anyone so went along and didn't say Aspen wanted pancakes for dinner.

So there you all are. Eating spaghetti, feeling kinda meh about it, wishing for pancakes, when that could have happened had anyone been honest about what they actually wanted.

But that's probably my conflict-avoidant self over-prioritizing smoothing things over and something I should work on.

"Don't make waves" and "Keeping the peace" is not cultivating actual inner peace. It's just not talking about hard subjects and/or being afraid to do healthy conflict resolution, or being afraid to say what you actually think.

It's also not giving clear communication. That's a disservice to the partner(s), since they cannot be mind readers and can only go by info given.

Your response made me realize that the actual underlying issue is that we don't have a formal agreement of how we're going to spend our time, we have a sort of loose routine that's developed organically. So rather than actually having "Cicada + Me" date night and "Acorn + Me" date night, we have these general habits like "Acorn prefers to go to bed earlier than me and Cicada, so Cicada + I often watch TV and have sex at night by ourselves," which then can easily turn into "Acorn can't sleep, so comes downstairs to hang out and ends up joining in the sex."

Complex scheduling is just making patterns.

• The whole group + kid doing something + RADAR time when kid goes to bed
• The whole group - kid because y'all got kid another babysitter so the adults could go out together
• (Acorn + You at your place) and Cicada plays with kid at their place, or gets a sitter and Cicada goes out alone or with other friends.
• (Acorn + You at their place) and Cicada plays with kid at their place, or gets a sitter and Cicada goes out alone or with other friends.
• (Cicada + You at your place) and Acorn plays with kid at their place, or gets a sitter and Acorn goes out alone or with other friends.
• (Cicada + You at their place) and Acorn plays with kid at their place, or gets a sitter and Acorn goes out alone or with other friends.
• (Acorn + Cicada at their place, staying in, or going out alone or with other friends) and (you stay home or go out alone or with other friends)

Could put those on colored post-it paper and jiggle them about on a calendar to create the pattern and frequency that suits this group most.

The dyad dates alternate homes some, and who has to travel alternates some, and things are seen to in rotation. Things don't have to be perfectly equal, but they do have to be "fair enough." Right now this is skewing heavily to you doing all the travel and always over at their place. If it is all hanging around their house, go get dinner and a movie sometimes OUT of the house.

This is super helpful. I guess I feel this (internal) pressure to have this kind of conversation as a group, except that I find that idea really intimidating. I would much prefer to say this to each of them one on one. I guess there's no rulebook that says we have to have big serious group conversations, so maybe I should just follow my instincts, though I worry that there would be some benefit to having group conversations that I'm missing or that I'm avoiding group conversations for some sort of wrong reason.

How about you call yourself a person in progress and do one-to-one RADAR for now, so long as it actually gets TALKED about, rather than people being all avoidant? Then, as the skills and confidence grow, you can talk about things in a group RADAR.

You seem to be a worrier. Is that true?

both of them each assuming that all sexual encounters are open to them if they are present and interested, which I do not want to be true.

I suspect that I feel reluctant to "take group sex away" from Acorn, though I know that I have to right to say no to it.

I also think that both Cicada and Acorn seem reluctant to acknowledge that their sexual dynamic isn't working, which makes me feel reluctant to draw attention to it. (Again, I see how this is something for me to work on.)

Then maybe you all talk about that and review the consent cartoons.

Rape And Consent Explained In 7 Simple Comics By Alli Kirkham

One of the most controversial points in the modern discussion of rape is consent. Comic artist Alli Kirkham helped clear the question up with a series of 7 comics that illustrate sexual consent issues with everyday situations that are easier for everyone to understand. Social Issues

www.boredpanda.com

Just because I might be interested in sex with you, doesn't mean I get to just foist myself on you, or horn in on you and your other partner, right?

Just because we shared group sex once doesn't mean you want to do it all the time. Right?

Your consent to share sex or not belongs to YOU. Speak up on that.

Galagirl

 

[Bobbi]

sometimes have minor squabbles in front of me, which I don't like. (I am very sensitive to conflict, which is something I'm working on in therapy, and it is hard for me to tell how much is reasonable to ask of other people regarding not having disagreements in my presence.

Im an ENFJ and simply cannot handle taking on others emotions plus my own when people are arguing in front of me, especially if I'm not part of the argument. I feel person one's feelings, person two's feelings, and my own. Add to that, I'm uncomfortable in the situation, might not like the way one person is treating another, and it compounds. I could never be able to handle that if I was also in love with both of them and wanted to support them both... That's a nightmare scenario for me.

You cannot impose rules on their behavior (like asking them to not fight in front of you, as fights happen organically and this rule wouldn't hold), but you can on your own.

You might choose differently, but I'd create a boundary around that. If they ever start arguing in front of me, I'll politely grab my stuff and leave. They can figure out how to do things differently or deal with being okay that I left. There would be no other options.

You do not have to subject yourself to this incredibly uncomfortable and inappropriate situation. Don't make a big deal out of it, just leave.

But some of it is something kind of different, a sort of tension that I don't know how to handle.

And you don't need to figure out how to handle it. It's not yours. Remove yourself from the situation.

discourage it, but feel bad engaging with it when I sense that Acorn wants to be involved, or wants to share in it. I feel sometimes like Cicada is not sensitive enough to this balance (being a bad hinge, maybe?). But I also understand (through observation), that the situation is more complicated than that — that when I'm not around, Acorn doesn't really want much attention from Cicada at all, and definitely not sexual attention. This sometimes makes me feel a little resentful towards Acorn. ("Why do you only want this attention when you see me getting it? You live with Cicada and have most of the week to enjoy each other's company if you want it!")

This is "them" stuff. Stay in your lane.

I also feel like part of the problem may be that often Cicada wants one-on-one time with me, but it is unwilling to explicitly say that to Acorn, preferring to take advantage of times when Acorn is naturally busy with other things or doesn't want to be involved

More them stuff. Stay in your lane.

But then how do I navigate this awkwardness between the three of us that feels so uncomfortable to me?

Maybe you are better off having more parallel relationships. Yes, you are in a triangle shape, and all in relationships with each other. But you could remove the all-three relationship. You+him, him+her, you+her only. This could be for a time, while they work on their relationship, or permanently, if it just works better that way.

Do you all really need that all-three-together sexy time? Then skip it.

 

[Magdlyn]

I don't do triads. I have tried in the past, a bit, but they are just way too complicated for me. I know. Some people are unicorns almost by nature and really really want that built-in-date-an-established-couple shape. It seems to make sense (especially if two of the partners are bi),but it's actually really hard

I never wanted to be a unicorn, but I am in a nesting couple that a lot of men who wanted to date me thought they could get with. (I'm binary but present femme, and I have a female partner.) Men on dating sites would talk to me and ask if they could get with me AND my gf, without ever having met me, much less chatted with or talked to my gf!

Anyway, you're running into the very common problems many unicorns do. One issue is that both of your partners are also your metamours (the partner of your partner). And you're the partner and metamour of each of them, too. Everyone has a dual role.

Next, this couple may or may not be using you as a Band-Aid on a broken relationship. For whatever reason, they've become less intimate, so you have become their shared toy, a bridge for them to use to connect, at least sexually. It seems the only time Acorn wants sex with Cicada is with you in the mix! You are "spicing up" a stale relationship.

This doesn't mean anyone is a bad guy. It seems like this is being done almost unconsciously by all parties.

I just want to concur that, even though you enjoy the amenities of their house (gym, pizza oven, etc.) it's best to make this whole thing more about the dyads, meeting for dates with them at your place. I'd even recommend you plan to not see them at all one weekend per month, so they can, hopefully, be thrown together without you as a buffer. Right now, things sound tense, awkward and kind of exhausting! You're walking on eggshells and they are resenting each other, and playing tug of war, with you in the middle being pulled both ways!

 

[kdt26417]

Hello MissHBee,

You might want to set up some regular get-togethers for relationship talks between the three of you. Perhaps once a week, perhaps once a month, something on that order. Something that you plan ahead of time, so you know you can count on it.

Perhaps your triad will evolve into a V, where you have sexual/romantic relationships with both Cicada and Acorn, but where Cicada and Acorn do not have a sexual/romantic relationship with each other. This would make you the hinge (and them, the legs of the V).

You do need to talk to Cicada about the problem, without criticizing them and just admitting that you feel uncomfortable about it. But you need to talk to Acorn about it too, because Acorn doesn't want much attention from Cicada when you're not around, and you are not okay with that. So as I said, a three-person discussion is probably in order.

Just some thoughts,
Kevin T.

 

[MissHBee]

Galagirl, I agree that I (and I suspect they too) are doing too much peacekeeping and not enough being clear about what we each want. I am working hard in other aspects of my life right now to get away from the "don't make waves" mentality and towards being authentic and genuine, so it makes sense to me that this is another aspect where I need to practice this!

I like your list of various combinations of dyads and locations we could try and it really makes it clear how little we've explored the variety of possibilities. Some events coming up have meant that we've made some plans that look different than our normal routine. (Acorn going on a weekend trip alone-- Cicada and I will spend that time with the kid that weekend; Cicada going on a trip alone-- Acorn and I will spend time with the kid that weekend; Cicada and me doing an activity together that will mean we will spend the weekend together and Acorn will stay home with the kid; and we have discussed when we could plan for Acorn and me to spend the weekend together, with Cicada watching the kid.) So I am optimistic that it will be easy to use those plans as an opportunity to discuss and shake up the schedule. We do all go out of the house together on a regular basis, but never without the kid.

How about you call yourself a person in progress and do one-to-one RADAR for now, so long as it actually gets TALKED about, rather than people being all avoidant? Then, as the skills and confidence grow, you can talk about things in a group RADAR.

You seem to be a worrier. Is that true?

This is very helpful and reassuring, I will start with the one on one talks. (Thank you for this RADAR idea. I've never heard of this concept before!) And I will tell each of them that I would like to have group talks in the future, but I feel intimidated by it. I am definitely a worrier (we all are in different ways, I think), though frankly, these relationships have been some of my LEAST worried over, which is something. At least in this situation my worries are about the unfamiliar dynamics, and not about my partners' thoughts and feelings towards me, which I have basically no worries about.

You are so right about the sex stuff. I realize this is a conversation we need to have, but I've been putting off. I will steel myself and do it!

 

[MissHBee]

Hi Bobbi! I really relate to your description of experiencing conflict between other people, that's exactly what it feels like to me too. My impulse has also been that it is impractical/wrong to try to tell them how to behave in front of me and I have tried to handle it by leaving (not the house, but the room) if they speak to each other in a way I don't like. But sometimes this is impractical (when we have driven to lunch together, or when we are having sex and I am literally tied up, etc.), and I am not bold enough to say something or do anything. I feel like part of it is that they see these as extremely minor and resolvable disagreements and they are quick to reassure me that everything is okay and to apologize, so I let it go... I think I have not really allowed myself to set the boundary that disagreements that seem so minor are something I am "allowed" to have a boundary around. But that is my own baggage, and again, something that I am working on in therapy. So I appreciate the validation that this is something others might be bothered by, as well.

It is disappointing to me to think that we may need to move to more parallel relationships, because this conflict represents a minority of the time we all spend together, and the rest of the time it is really lovely and enjoyable — definitely a significant part of what drew me in, in the first place. But I agree with the aspects of the situation that you point out are not in my lane. Maybe focusing on the dyads and encouraging them to focus on their dyad will result in us being able to build that part of the relationship back up in the future!

 

[MissHBee]

Magdlyn, I do realize that the triad and unicorn situation is not ideal, but at the moment I am willing to try to make the best of it. My partners are very supportive of my relationships with each other as a whole, and because our individual dyads feel so strong and healthy for me, it feels worth it. If either of those things change, I will definitely reconsider.

I do think you're right that they're using me as a Band-Aid, to some degree. My suspicion is that this situation is shining some light on aspects of their relationship that they were ignoring. I honestly wouldn't even mind if I was enabling them to bond sexually, but the problem seems to be that I'm actually not: though they each say that they enjoy threesomes when we have them, I have my doubts. The threesomes make the sexual issues harder to ignore, which seems to distress them both.

I just want to concur that, even though you enjoy the amenities of their house (gym, pizza oven, etc.) it's best to make this whole thing more about the dyads, meeting for dates with them at your place.

I will say that I love my own apartment, and my point about the things they have at their place is more about the routines we have built up around those things, and not that I would be sad to lose access to them! But of course, we can develop routines at my place that I'm sure I will enjoy just as much.

I'd even recommend you plan to not see them at all one weekend per month, so they can, hopefully, be thrown together without you as a buffer.

Acorn suggested this recently, too. (The idea being that we'd have one Acorn + Me weekend, one Cicada + Me weekend, one Acorn + Cicada weekend, and one everyone weekend.) I am really coming around to this being a good idea. In practicality, they have weekends without me on a fairly regular basis, about once a month or two, because I have other plans. But I doubt that they are using this time to really spend time together. My understanding is that they more often spend time apart when I'm not around. But perhaps this is none of my business, really.

Right now, things sound tense, awkward and kind of exhausting! You're walking on eggshells and they are resenting each other, and playing tug of war, with you in the middle being pulled both ways!

Really, it is still lovely the majority of the time. But when things are tense it is very awkward and exhausting for me! I will give them credit that they each are careful not to tug on me or act possessive of me, but I am walking on eggshells with regard to their relationship problems and they are definitely resenting each other in certain ways, which makes me sad.

 

[MissHBee]

Kevin, thank you for your response — I must go to sleep but I will respond to you tomorrow!

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

Where is the part where you sat down with them and formally agreed that this was to be a polyamorous triad, rather than what you started with, which was fun sexy threesomes and exploring a mutual kink?

Was there a time when they announced that they were polyamorous with you and that you should treat them as romantic and sexual partners?

You see, from my perspective, unless you have had a talk where they said explicitly that they wanted polyamory (not just sex and friendship), then there isn't any basis for you to feel like you're owed more than you are getting.

I think a lot of people get to this point, and then suggest things like separate dates, only to find that was never a desire of the married couple. They don't want that kind of triad. They want to date the same person, together, or just have sex with them together.

 

[MissHBee]

Hi SEASONEDpolyAgain! That is not something I'm worried about — about three months into this, Acorn and I said we loved each other, which prompted a series of talks (mostly in dyads) where Cicada and I and Acorn and I explicitly said that we wanted to be romantic and sexual partners (and they each said that they were happy with me dating the other as well). I don't think that we've ever used the word "polyamory," but the word "triad" was used. There is no doubt between any of us that Cicada and my and Acorn and my relationships are romantic and committed. That being said, I now realize that these conversations didn't really cover what we needed to change from our original expectations of how things should go post the threesome/kink phase — it was more of a "wow, this situation has developed in a great way we didn't expect! How do we all feel about that?" kind of conversation. A lot of the "growth" of the relationships after those conversations has happened organically, but has involved checking in with each other to make sure everyone feels comfortable with it.

I think a lot of people get to this point and then suggest things like separate dates only to find that was never a desire of the married couple. They don't want that kind of triad. They want to date the same person, together. Or just have sex with them together.

I think kind of the opposite thing happened, that they do NOT really want to be dating me "together," and seem to prefer the time we spend one on one (and have explicitly said they want more of it.) The obstacles have been logistical (and me, I guess), not their lack of desire. I went into the situation assuming that we would only have sex/hang out together, was surprised that they each wanted one on one time from the beginning, and then pleased to discover that I enjoyed each of their individual company so much and the draw wasn't only the hot group kink stuff.

 

[MissHBee]

Kevin, I think you're right that I should encourage some regular group check-ins. I'm just anxious about it, I think partly due to my own history, and partly because of not always liking the way they communicate with each other.

These responses have definitely helped me figure out how to have the conversation I wanted with Cicada. I'm going to talk about it with my therapist today. Then Cicada and I will have alone time this weekend (Acorn being out of town), so we'll have the perfect opportunity to discuss it. I hadn't thought about this:

But you need to talk to Acorn about it too, because Acorn doesn't want much attention from Cicada when you're not around, and you are not okay with that.

I'm not completely sure how I feel about it. I definitely don't want to push them together if they're not feeling it, especially sexually, but I guess I would like them to acknowledge the actual state of their relationship and whether they would like to/intend to work on it or not.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm just anxious about it, I think partly due to my own history, and partly because of not always liking the way they communicate with each other.

Maybe you all want to read some of Marshall Rosenberg's Non-Violent Communication books to improve HOW you communicate with each other?

There are several but I like

Living Nonviolent Communication​

You can read "Nonviolent Communication: A Language of Life" online free at

Nonviolent Communication A Language Of Life Marshall B Rosenberg ( 1) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Non violent communication

archive.org

The general process is here.

https://www.nonviolentcommunication.com/pdf_files/4part_nvc_process.pdf

https://www.schooltransformation.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Kendrick_NVC_Materials.pdf

Galagirl