Husband causing conflict and its killing our marriage

[FelicityB]

Hello, everyone.

My husband A and I have been married for nearly 20 years.We were 18 when we got married. A few years ago, we opened our marriage. Our marriage was solid and we simply wanted to experience other relationships since we had married so young.

We each have casually dated others but neither has had a serious relationship until....I met and fell in love with M. (M is also married, his wife has a long term BF, and I am his only other partner besides his wife.)

M and I have known each other for about a year now and while yes, there is some NRE going on, there is definitely much more. We have a connection, a love, and a passion we don't feel with our spouses. M is incredibly important to me and I NEED him in my life.

But A is threatened and his constant complaining, interference, and lack of support is killing our marriage. While A continues to casually date-- with my full support-- (though he says he will stop if I do) he is now insisting that I need to stop seeing M so we can "reconnect". I've tried to explain to A that by forcing me to leave M, I will simply grow in resentment and our problems will only deepen. He says we need to focus on our marriage first and we can't do that as long as I am seeing M. I disagree.

A's way of handling things is to complain about the time I spend with M (which really only works out to be one or two nights every week or so) and to talk constantly about what he is not getting from me -- time, attention, sex, etc. He IS getting time and attention from me just not 100%. But if that were the case, then we'd be back in a monogamous relationship which we BOTH agreed we no longer wanted.

While I try to be sympathetic, I'm losing patience. What A can't seem to understand is that by being supportive, not complaining, not starting fights all of the time and simply allowing me to see M during our scheduled times, I would be much happier and as such, our marriage would be better. His insecurity and neediness is driving me away.

I love my husband do not want to leave him but I don't know what more I can do. I suggested counseling but he wont call and make an appointment and I refuse to do it for him and enable him.

Has anyone found themselves in a situation like this before and what did you do?

 

[vinsanity0]

I think it might be pretty common for insecure people to fulfill their own prophecies. It's a shame your husband can't see he is doing that by pushing you away.

Another thing that seems common is people changing their minds, or realizing they can't do poly. It's easy to agree to something in theory. It's quite a different thing to follow through in practice. Dealing with that kind of insecurity requires quite a bit of introspection. It doesn't sound like your husband is willing to do that.

 

[ElMango]

I'm sorry you are going through this. I'm not sure if what I say is going to be helpful.

But A is threatened and his constant complaining, interference, and lack of support is killing our marriage. While A continues to casually date-- with my full support-- (though he says he will stop if I do) he is now insisting that I need to stop seeing M so we can "reconnect". I've tried to explain to A that by forcing me to leave M, I will simply grow in resentment and our problems will only deepen. He says we need to focus on our marriage first and we can't do that as long as I am seeing M. I disagree.

I agree with you; a veto will only cause resentment and hurt. But, but sounds like A wants veto power. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like veto power was not agreed on in your relationship?

... and to talk constantly about what he is not getting from me -- time, attention, sex, etc.

Has he explained WHY he feels this way? Has he asked to work together to perhaps come up with solutions that work for both of you?

While I try to be sympathetic, I'm losing patience. What A can't seem to understand is that by being supportive, not complaining, not starting fights all of the time and simply allowing me to see M during our scheduled times, I would be much happier and as such, our marriage would be better. His insecurity and neediness is driving me away.

It sounds less like insecurity, and more like trying to control you.

I love my husband do not want to leave him but I don't know what more I can do. I suggested counseling but he wont call and make an appointment and I refuse to do it for him and enable him.

What boundaries would you be willing to set up with your husband? What to set up with boyfriend? What would they want to set up?
Are you willing to leave either relationship if nothing gets resolved?

Has anyone found themselves in a situation like this before and what did you do?

I sort of have? When at one point I was feeling very insecure, and a boundary was broken with a meta I did not trust and her past behaviour made me very concerned for my partners wellbeing; as well as honestly, a controlling boundary was broken (which while controlling, should have been renegotiated instead of blatantly ignored), it did make me wish I had veto power. I was overwhelmed and upset and hurt. I did not even try to pull a veto. But I did get rather obstinate and instead of discussing I stonewalled until I had calmed down and got advice on even what to do.
In the end, with this meta, it became a DADT/parallel poly. Hearing every bad thing she had done, and no good, was not productive. When they split, I did not enforce proper boundaries on how to handle that; now I know how.

But, in the end, it was my issue to solve and our team issue to find and solution we both were comfortable with.

I'm not sure if that's similar enough to help?

 

[opalescent]

Have you told your husband explicitly what you said here? If not, do so immediately. He may not truly get the impact his actions are having on you, leading you towards divorce.

Has he told you why he is so upset and behaving poorly over this? There is a reason, probably several. If he can commit to sorting out why he is feeling this way - and why he is behaving in such a controlling way - there may be hope to figure this out. If he knows the why, he can figure out other ways to get his needs met instead of acting out.

It's really common for spouses to open a marriage, see others casually, and be fine until one falls in love with another. There is something about falling in love and not 'just' sex that can really trigger people. So this is not uncommon.

However, sorting it out does require him to do more emotional work than many want to. That's the key, in my opinion.

And it means you may have a decision to make, not right away but eventually. Do you want to stay married to your husband as things stand? Think about that. Hopefully, conversations with your husband will result in some clarity for the both of you and a way to work through things together. But do consider your response if nothing changes.

Has he been controlling in the past? Or is this very new behavior from him? I ask because if he has been controlling in the past, it may be difficult to move on for him as he is using methods that have worked to keep you around before.

Finally, I get that you don't want to leave or break up with your other partner. What about taking a short 'break'? No, you shouldn't have to and it's not ideal but a 3 or 6 month pause may give you and your husband some time to work things out.

Also, maybe your husband is reacting to something you are putting out. You note that you need your new partner in your life and you have a connection, passion and love with him that you don't have with your husband. Perhaps you have already, consciously or unconsciously, checked out of the marriage? Your husband may be reacting to either that reality or the fear of you checking out. think deeply about if you truly want to stay in your current marriage, irrespective of your relationship with M. You can love someone but not want to be in a partnership with them anymore. If you feel you are truly done, start divorce proceedings. I believe it is kinder to pull that band-aid off sooner rather than later.

 

[dingedheart]

M and I have known each other for about a year now and while yes, there is some NRE going on, there is definitely much more. We have a connection, a love, and a passion we don't feel with our spouses. M is incredibly important to me and I NEED him in my life.

Might I suggest he’s either discovered this by words or actions or has been directly told this and that the basis for his insecurity.

Demotion and displacement.

 

[FelicityB]

We honestly never discussed having veto power. I would never veto anything he wanted to do unless I felt it was harmful to him. I support him fully with whomever he wants to see and I assumed he would do the same for me. I agree that his desire to tell me when or if I can see M ---or cause a rift and make me feel as though I can't see -- is controlling.

I spend A LOT of time with my husband. He is home nearly every night (except when gone for work), I am with him on weekends... I hardly ever see M as he travels so much for work. We only see each other about once or twice a month. A's complaining that he doesn't get time/attention is unfounded and the lack of sex is because of my resentment of him.

Im not sure what boundaries I need with M. We aren't together much and most of our relationship is via text/mail. As for A, I just want him to let me see M without conflict. I have started sticking to my guns and telling him that he can complain and argue but I refuse to change plans with M when I have them. I'm hoping this forces him to seek help for his issues.

I'm certainly not even thinking divorce yet and even if I was, M is also married and has no intention of leaving his wife. I would just be alone without A, seeing M occasionally. I love my husband and desperately want him to be ok with all of this. *I* would be if the tables were turned...but then I am not a jealous person and am more secure in who I am.

 

[FallenAngelina]

We have a connection, a love, and a passion we don't feel with our spouses.

Your husband is killing your marriage? Sounds like he is the smart one who recognizes that you've long ago lost that lovin' feelin'. Why blame this all on him and his so-called insecurities? Sounds like he can see all too well what is happening.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

You know, if you and boyfriend have such a rock solid relationship, surely it could handle taking a backseat while you work on the relationship with the other man you love.

But in all honestly, it sounds like you won't want to do that, even if it could handle it, because you are more invested in the source which makes you happiest which is perfectly human.

You could protect time which you spend with your husband which resembles the protected time you spend with your boyfriend and see if that helps. At least then you would know you tried. Often the nesting relationship has more "joint shifts on the shop floor" than "date nights" and people struggle to connect over time. Sometimes they've just outgrown each other.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry this is happening.

I could see where it could be hard to be loving/understanding toward husband if he's basically doing some sort of acting out and won't tell you why.

I love my husband do not want to leave him but I don't know what more I can do. I suggested counseling but he wont call and make an appointment and I refuse to do it for him and enable him.

Has anyone found themselves in a situation like this before and what did you do?

If you both are willing to go to counseling and the only hold up is who makes the call? Since you don't want to leave him? YOU make the call and set it up. That's something you could do. Get the outside help you both need so things have a chance to get better between you through better communication. Cuz left to your own devices? It sounds like it is not improving and it sounds like you are picking at each other over small stuff because you are unable to talk about the big stuff.

So something has to change. Be willing to start the change and make the call. Maybe having a neutral 3rd party to help guide the conversation along will help you both HAVE the big conversation in a more productive way rather than ending up at gridlock?

I don't get what you are enabling. In making the appointment you are at least trying to move it forward. By NOT making the call and making space to sort this out? You guys stay stuck. At an appt? If he blows it off or doesn't do the work? Well, that's not fun either. But you can more clearly see if he's actually trying to work on the marriage with you or not. And he can't say you weren't trying at all because you did call and set up and showed up. You showed up at the table.

Right now it almost sounds like each one is in gridlock because he wants to work on the marriage like THIS and you want to work on the marriage like THAT.

So then no work will be done AT ALL because you guys aren't getting your own way? That's kinda weird to me.

How do you practice marriage together? Do you guys want to be RIGHT or want to be in RIGHT RELATIONSHIP?

But A is threatened and his constant complaining, interference, and lack of support is killing our marriage. While A continues to casually date-- with my full support-- (though he says he will stop if I do) he is now insisting that I need to stop seeing M so we can "reconnect"

So... what's really going on there? Why's he acting out?

What's his plan to "reconnect?" He wants to take a vacation with just you for 2 weeks? Something else? What behavior is he actually asking of you? You do not say.

"Stop seeing M" -- Is he UNCLEAR? That's why you are upset? Does he mean break up with M? Or skip seeing him this week so we can make space for counseling? One might be unreasonable to you, and the other might be ok. Which is it?

Is he MAD that you give him "full support" to his dating other people because he secretly wanted you to "show some jealous so I know you still care about me" or something?

Is he ANNOYED with the schedule? Like it used to be ok, but hey, it's been a year of same schedule. He wants some Friday nites too and not always Tues (or whatever it is?)

Is he feeling ENVY that your own dating is going well and you have a new steady BF? Where he doesn't have a steady GF?

Is he BOTHERED that transitioning to Open is harder for him than for you? Something else going on with him?

You cannot mind reader him. But he's sounds upset about something.

Would you make and hold space if BF and his spouse were having a thing? If yes... are you not willing to make and hold space if YOU and your spouse are having a thing? Make the call. Set up counseling.

A's way of handling things is to complain about the time I spend with M (which really only works out to be one or two nights every week or so) and to talk constantly about what he is not getting from me -- time, attention, sex, etc. He IS getting time and attention from me just not 100%. But if that were the case, then we'd be back in a monogamous relationship which we BOTH agreed we no longer wanted.

You sound like you still want that.

Does HE still want that? Or is it like he's tried the Open thing for a year and now he wants to Close again? But doesn't come right out and say it?

Galagirl

 

[FelicityB]

I absolutely DO love my husband. My love with M is different and something my relationship with A was missing. But that does not mean I no longer want A. He fulfills these needs, M fulfills others. Thats all.

I have been going to counseling on my own. I've asked A to go on his own and then also join me but he won't. I don't think he wants to work on his issues or hear he might be wrong.

As I stated before, I rarely see M. Sometimes I might see him 2 or 3 weeks in a row (for an evening) and then not see him for 2 months. What A is asking me to do is break things off with M.

Could he be envious because I have someone and he doesn't? Yes, perhaps.

Could he be mad I don't show jealousy about his dates? I never said I was never jealous but I know my jealousy is based in fear of him finding someone else and I deal with that as it is my insecurity. To me, being jealous isn't healthy.

Is he bothered than opening is harder for him? It wasn't hard until I met M.

And I'm trying to work on things with A but pushing M aside for several months isn't the answer, IMO. (Nor my counselors) A and I are together the majority of the time. We have date nights. We go on vacation. We have plenty of opportunities to work on us.
.. but letting him control what I do and who I see isn't going to help us in the long run.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello FelicityB,

It sounds like your husband, A, is hoping that if he complains enough, it will convince you to break up with M. I wonder if A has sensed that you have a connection, a love, and a passion with M that you don't feel with A. If he has, then that would help explain why he is so hell-bent on making you break up with M. Like he feels (justifiably) like he can't compete with M and as long as you're still with M, his marriage with you is (honestly) threatened. If that's true, then maybe you could try to think of things you could do to upgrade your opinion of/connection with A.

Can I ask you something? If A is unwilling to see a counselor, is there a chance that *you* would be willing to see one without A? because yes, a big part of the problem here is A's behavior, but you can't control A's behavior, you can only choose your own actions. So see a counselor and try to brainstorm with them about things that *you* could do to help improve the situation. The worst that could happen is that you and the counselor could conclude that the ball is fully within A's court.

As for how to convince A to stop acting out, I'm not sure. Have you told him that his behavior is pushing you (further) away? If you have, how did he reply? Maybe he just hasn't realized that his complaints are making things worse, not better. But as I said, you have to have some sympathy for him if from his viewpoint, his marriage with you is slipping through his fingers because he just doesn't measure up to M, and can't. Like maybe he is getting desperate. Perhaps he needs to hear from you what he could do to make himself more comparable to M.

I hope you can work this out in a way you can both live with.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[dingedheart]

It occurred to me after I posted and had already left my office traveling to a job site that your thread had elements of a common theme. So when got back I checked your post. I hate to put words in your mouth but here’s what it looks like to me. Married really young and for nearly 20 yrs and perhaps we had different expectations going into this new dynamic. And now you met someone really really special and you’re head over heels in love....passionate love.

As you said “ I love my husband do not want to leave him but I don't know what more I can do.“ and here comes the big BBBUT....you’re NOT “ in love with him.” This is the common hair that gets split. It’s also very confusing when people toss the L word around in the form of a question. “ you know I love you right ? “ But the subtext could be you know I love you like a brother or a distant cousin.

You love him for all the history and shared stuff, etc etc but you’re NOT in love with him. And he feels that and sees it slipping away.

Theres only 1000% poly couples that have had to face this situation.

AGAIN NOT TRYING TO PUT WORDS IN YOUR MOUTH AND IF IM COMPLETELY WRONG ...FEEL FREE TO SAY SO. NO ill will intended. Just thinking out loud.

 

[FelicityB]

Let me clarify some things -- my husband has NO idea the depth of my feelings for M. He knows M but does not associate with him. When I am with A , I am with A, not texting or talking to M, (except for the occasional hello/goodnight), and while I have told him I feel love for M, I have never described those feelings to A. I was honest here only because I am seeking true advice.

*I* am in counseling. I have been for several months. A refuses to go neither with me or alone. I feel he does not believe he has a real problem -- it's just me and my relationship with M and other than that, he would be ok-- nor does he want to hear that he has any insecurities -- again, it's all my fault.

Does he know how I feel about his actions and behavior? Yes. He knows that the more he tries to control me, the more I am pulling away.

How does he want to reconnect? I see A every night. We go on vacations together. His idea of "reconnection" is for me to stop seeing M. ....while he still casually dates here and there. I too would be "allowed" to date...just not M. I do not find that a fair compromise.

Take a break from M? I barely see him know. Yes, I might see him one evening, 2 or 3 weeks in a row...but then it could be 6 weeks before I see him again. My husband dates more frequently than that.

And am I "in love" with my husband? You ask a good question. I believe I still am. It's a different kind of love than I have for M. Yes, I love him for the shared history and life experiences we have weathered. and until I met M, I would have told you that WE had that deep love and passion.

Thank you all for your responses!! You are giving me somethings to think about.

 

[breathemusic]

So I actually am living a very similar experience right now minus a few caveats. Granted, my nesting partner (NP) and I have been together for only 5 years, and I don't have the same "don't have the same passion for my spouse" issue. I still have lots of desire for my partner and we have a very healthy sex life, etc. But I do have a very different connection with my other partner who I've been seeing for 9 months, which my NP struggles with.

We are in couple's therapy and working through things, but one thing I did finally do was I agreed to not have any date nights with my other partner for 2 weeks (I was originally going to be on a 2 week work trip that got cancelled so I felt like my other partner was already expecting to not see me for 2 weeks and it at least wouldn't be me cancelling standing dates, which I wouldn't have done). I basically offered up these 2 weeks so that we could focus on each other in order to break the cycle of fighting that we had going on. I'd have a date night scheduled, NP would be all mopey or some comment or point of discussion would lead to hurt feelings by one of us which was then leading to one or both of us not being interested in sex.

NP felt like because I had this other relationship, his sex life was suffering because I wasn't interested in having sex with him as much and no matter how many times I said it, he didn't seem to be digesting the fact that I wasn't uninterested in sex with him because I was dating someone else, I was uninterested because his shitty reaction was causing fights or frustration that was killing my interest with him because I'd need time to recover from feeling angry or hurt. More time than he usually needs. He didn't seem to be able to understand (or if he could understand, he just couldn't seem to stop himself) that if he just stopped projecting his feelings all over me, then I'd actually be much more interested in sex with him! Less fights = more sex!

The 2 week "reset" as we now sort of call it DID actually help a lot. We still are working through a lot of things, and we're both having to basically decide if the differences in what we want are things that we can live with or not. I'm not willing to see my partner less (outside of natural scheduling things like vacations, sick, etc, beyond that 2 week reset that we did) so my partner has had to decide, can he ultimately live with that even if he wished I saw my partner less? And I am having to figure out.... can I live with the fact that my partner doesn't really feel compersion, and may never be as supportive as I wish he was. And I've also had to learn that I don't always have to respond to my partner's negative feelings. I can just say "sorry you're having some feels." and then go about my choices. Basically, I can provide the support that is within the limits of what I feel I can provide, but I don't have to change because he has feels. And my partner and I have also been working on how he can express feelings in a better way if what he wants is some support, and that sometimes saying certain things is really only going to make things worse, so if that's not what he wants, then he needs to exercise more mindfulness about what and the way he says things.

My partner is likely somewhere on the spectrum, which I'm fine with, but it has also been obvious that expressing himself thoughtfully isn't something he's good at. So it's a work in progress. He has also struggled with anxiety and stress without really managing it well and it has taken me a long time and a lot of pushing to get him to finally see someone about it, but he finally is, and I'm hoping that this also helps with him finding better ways to cope with and process negative emotions, as that is just an area he struggles with in general.

Personally I would suggest couple's therapy vs just individual, since part of the issue here is communication between the 2 of you. Individual would probably be good for him as well, but ultimately you both are going to have to figure out what your style of poly is, what your boundaries are, communicate them well and hopefully kindly, and then figure out if you're still compatible.

 

[opalescent]

Tell him the depth of your feelings for M and how his (A) behavior is causing you to leave him. Tell him sooner rather than later. Waiting to tell him, or not telling him, is a losing game. It will be painful to tell him but way more painful not to.

Also, on some level, A already knows how in love you are with M. Otherwise, he would not be acting out as much as he is. He knows, on some level, that this relationship is different from others.

Until you get all the information out in the open - and not assumed or implied - you cannot start to work through this situation, no matter how it works out.

 

[GalaGirl]

Thank you for more info.

Let me clarify some things -- my husband has NO idea the depth of my feelings for M. He knows M but does not associate with him. When I am with A , I am with A, not texting or talking to M, (except for the occasional hello/goodnight), and while I have told him I feel love for M, I have never described those feelings to A.

Is that the threat? A. was up for Open to share sex with others but not up for sharing love? So he doesn't share love on his side of things but it drives him bonkers that you share love with M on your side of things? And A. wanted all your love for just him?

*I* am in counseling. I have been for several months. A refuses to go neither with me or alone.

Sounds like you are willing to do work on yourself and work on the marriage. And at this time he's not willing to do either individual or couple counseling.

What does your counselor say about all this?

I feel he does not believe he has a real problem -- it's just me and my relationship with M and other than that, he would be ok-- nor does he want to hear that he has any insecurities -- again, it's all my fault.

Sounds like he's pushing all the yucky away so he doesn't have to feel it or own it. And putting it all on you and blame shifting is another way to not have to own it.

Like if you just dumped M, he would be gone. End of problem.

When really the problem remains. It might be the end of the immediate discomfort A. feels if M. is out of the picture, but the problem is still there. You date someone new and fall in love again? Here comes the problem back again.

The problem is that A thinks gets "dibs" on your love and gets to say who you love and can date. When he is NOT the boss of you. He doesn't get to dictate your feelings or who you can and cannot date.

You guys got together very young at 18. Is it possible that he's struggling now because he used to take you and all your stuff for granted -- like it's all for him?

Does he view relationships as...

Possessive? Like... " I have a wife." There. Done. Deal set. Sealed for life. I don't have to do anything else. Just like I have a sweater. It's there in the closet. Keeps me warm whenever I want like a sweater is supposed to.

Or participatory? Like "I participate in tending a marriage with my wife." Like tending a plant together. You can't stuff it in a closet. Without regular care and tending, it goes dead. If you step on it once, it might bounce back. But keep stepping on it over and over? It reaches a point where it just cannot revive. It also goes dead.

How does he want to reconnect? I see A every night. We go on vacations together. His idea of "reconnection" is for me to stop seeing M. ....while he still casually dates here and there. I too would be "allowed" to date...just not M. I do not find that a fair compromise.

It's not fair for him to want you to dump someone you are dating just because you love them.

It sounds like he was up for Open like sharing casual sex/FWB stuff. But not like sharing love.

But the thing is... he's not in charge of you, your body, your heart and what you are up for sharing or not sharing with people. You and your stuff belong to YOU.

So if he's not comfortable now that he knows you share love with M? And you aren't rubbing M in his face or TMI details at him? He's just mad or threatened there's love being shared with people other than him? That's not anything you can help with if he's not willing to own it and work on it.

Maybe you guys weren't actually on the same page for what Open model you were practicing. Maybe you thought it meant one thing and he thought another. Maybe it caught you by surprise that being involved with others might lead to emotions. I don't know.

But I don't think acting out about it and trying to control what you do/don't do so he doesn't have to feel anything yucky or face things is a good solution.

You could try whatever your counselor says to do.

And/or just stop talking about it. Hang with A like scheduled, hang with M like scheduled. Live normal life. If A. wants to grump about M, you could say "No, thank you. We don't talk about other dating partners. Then there's no problems. If you need to air out stuff, see a counselor. If you need me to come, I will come."

That's not gonna work forever, but perhaps it dials down some of the off putting behavior at home. You are willing to talk in counseling, but other than that? Skip grumping at you about it at home.

And am I "in love" with my husband? You ask a good question. I believe I still am. It's a different kind of love than I have for M. Yes, I love him for the shared history and life experiences we have weathered. and until I met M, I would have told you that WE had that deep love and passion.

I hope A wakes up to the fact that his behavior is off putting and the more he tries to control you the more he's pushing you away.

You sound like you want both A. and M. in your life. But the sad reality may be that only M wants poly.

A. can't MAKE you do Open his way any more than you can MAKE him do Poly your way. If you cannot agree on Open-Poly where it is Open on his side and Poly on yours? Like some people agree on Mono-Poly? And you don't want to go back to monogamy?

Rather than fight about it you might have to talk about having reached the end of the road as romantic partners and how to close that chapter with grace and dignity. Talk about how to be good exes and (if possible) friends in this new chapter of the book.

Because if A. is not willing to do the work, grow his comfort zone, address his feelings and perhaps unrealistic expectations of you? You may have outgrown the relationship with him.

Sometimes when people get married really young they can continue to grow together in the same direction. Sometime they grow apart in different directions. Or one grows and the other doesn't.

Galagirl

 

[breathemusic]

Let me clarify some things -- my husband has NO idea the depth of my feelings for M. He knows M but does not associate with him. When I am with A , I am with A, not texting or talking to M, (except for the occasional hello/goodnight), and while I have told him I feel love for M, I have never described those feelings to A. I was honest here only because I am seeking true advice.

*I* am in counseling. I have been for several months. A refuses to go neither with me or alone. I feel he does not believe he has a real problem -- it's just me and my relationship with M and other than that, he would be ok-- nor does he want to hear that he has any insecurities -- again, it's all my fault.

Does he know how I feel about his actions and behavior? Yes. He knows that the more he tries to control me, the more I am pulling away.

How does he want to reconnect? I see A every night. We go on vacations together. His idea of "reconnection" is for me to stop seeing M. ....while he still casually dates here and there. I too would be "allowed" to date...just not M. I do not find that a fair compromise.

Take a break from M? I barely see him know. Yes, I might see him one evening, 2 or 3 weeks in a row...but then it could be 6 weeks before I see him again. My husband dates more frequently than that.

And am I "in love" with my husband? You ask a good question. I believe I still am. It's a different kind of love than I have for M. Yes, I love him for the shared history and life experiences we have weathered. and until I met M, I would have told you that WE had that deep love and passion.

Thank you all for your responses!! You are giving me somethings to think about.

Ah, I guess I was typing my response while you were typing yours, so I didn't have any of this information when I wrote my original reply. If your husband isn't willing to own his part in all of this, then there's really going to be limits to what you can do other than to continue to assert your own boundaries and say "if you keep blaming this all on me and not accepting your own role in this, then I don't see a way for things to get better. I am not willing to stop seeing M, so that isn't really up for debate."

I didn't realize that you see M so infrequently, that really isn't all that much. Any less would barely be seeing anyone at all. Sounds like his issue is really just that he was open to you both sleeping with other people, but that he wasn't ready to accept there being deep feelings for anyone else. That is something that he's going to have to decide if he can live with if he wants to stay with you if you're not willing to limit your outside relationships to just casual flings.

You can't make him go to therapy, but you can let him know that by refusing to go to therapy and refusing to work together to figure out if there can be some way that he can be happy within your boundaries and you within his, that the relationship is only going to continue to decline and that he'll continue to push you away until you leave.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Felicity,

I have to ask your pardon, I made some assumptions in my previous post about things you had already corrected. I think what happened is, the mods did not post a couple of your posts before I showed up. Sometimes that can happen when you're a new member, you're still in moderated mode (they do that to guard against spammers) and your posts don't all make it into the thread in a timely fashion. So for example, I didn't realize you were already seeing a counselor, even though you had already said you were, because that post of yours had not yet been cleared by the mods. I feel bad about that and I want to apologize. Can I ask, what does your counselor have to say about the situation?

Re (from FelicityB):

"Does he know how I feel about his actions and behavior? Yes. He knows that the more he tries to control me, the more I am pulling away."

Can I ask, what does he have to say about that? Does he say, "Well, if I don't get you to stop seeing M, our marriage will go down the drain anyway, so I have no choice but to act like this."

Has he said *why* he thinks M is such a problem? Is it really just, "Well, you're off seeing M so much of the time that there's no time left for me." Has he said that he doesn't want you developing any serious feelings for any of the people you date? in other words casual dating only?

Based on your posts so far (assuming they've all now made it through the mod/spam filters), it definitely sounds like A is acting unreasonable. At the very least, he is not communicating with you honestly. He needs to tell you the real reason why he has a problem with M.

Regards,
Kevin T.

 

[dingedheart]

Thanks felicity for the additional information it really helps.


Once again I’m going to fall back on what we see here most often and that is A) the agreement of causal sex arms length type relationships and B) expectations of the core relationship staying the same. Before opening up did you discuss these topics ??? And might he have had the idea of such an agreement and the idea the marriage would basically function as it did before ?

So one track has hubby on newbie beginners mistake route expectations were off and sex and relationships tend to shift feelings.

The other idea is he’s felt the shift within you and because of his expectations he feels the sky is slowly falling. And his behavior only helps to make it move faster. Another idea is he’s discovered / seen/ read text message or emails that actually discusses this and that’s got everything in a spinner.

What’s your prospective ages ?? The reason I ask this is men of a certain era really disliked sharing personal/ relationship stuff with and stranger/professional.
And also in that process there are going to be things people don’t want to hear.
If he’s been a jerk and knows he’s been a jerk he’s not going to want some outside calling him on his jerky behavior.

 

[WhatHappened]

M is incredibly important to me and I NEED him in my life.

No, you don't NEED him. This is one of the things we learn as we mature: that there are many things we WANT but very few that we NEED. 15 year old girls believe they NEED the one they're infatuated with. As adults, we NEED to look at reality and how our actions are affecting others.

Do you have children?

You say:

A's way of handling things is to complain about the time I spend with M (which really only works out to be one or two nights every week or so) and to talk constantly about what he is not getting from me -- time, attention, sex, etc.

and you say:

I hardly ever see M as he travels so much for work. We only see each other about once or twice a month.

One--or two--nights every week to ten days vs once a month (or maybe twice) is two different things. Which is it?

I'm always interested in the way we (people in general) slant our words. A lot is said in the poly world about open, honest communication, communicating your needs. If you were telling him you needed more time with him, would that be communication or would it be complaining? When he tells you he wants or needs more time with you, what makes it complaining, rather than communication?

A's complaining that he doesn't get time/attention is unfounded and the lack of sex is because of my resentment of him.

In his mind, he does not get the time he wants from you. (Does he get to classify his wants as needs, as you do or do we have a one-way street?) Is it fair to simply tell him what he wants and feels is invalid, to inform him yes, he gets enough time, regardless of what he feels? Would it be acceptable for him to likewise inform you that your wants and needs are simply invalid?

The point here is to think about ideas, about how we must take a stand that we can apply equally to both parties.

Let's look at it this way: He's doing something that hurts you. Maybe he's spending 6 nights a week drinking with friends or even out playing basketball with friends; maybe it's gambling; maybe it's constantly tearing apart and re-doing rooms in the house so you're living in constant re-construction. Either way, it IS impacting YOUR life.

What if you speak up for what you want, engage in open and honest communication -- and he responds by saying, first that your feelings on the matter are simply invalid and follows up with, "Well, now that you're complaining, I'm resentful...so now you don't get sex either, and it's your fault you don't get sex."

Would this be acceptable? Would you be here telling the forum that you realize you're complaining and it's your fault you no loner get sex so you'll happily accept whatever it is he's doing? Or would you be here saying he's dismissing you and not listening and doesn't care how his actions impact you?

Your husband is killing your marriage? Sounds like he is the smart one who recognizes that you've long ago lost that lovin' feelin'. Why blame this all on him and his so-called insecurities? Sounds like he can see all too well what is happening.

This exactly.