I need help with preventing messy results

Thanks for the positive support!

Now on to the other aspect of actions not matching the words.

The bulk of the last week, I was mensing and dealing with the flu my son had brought home the week before. So I wasn't having fun with anyone! Jack wanted to see me before he heads out of town on Saturday. That leaves tonight. So I made plans with him.

Taylor had a date that canceled on him on Thursday. Adele is still on the "let's just be friends for a while" tip, so he starts talking about getting a quickie in before I go on my date. It feels a bit like marking his territory with me as the fire hydrant, but I try to not read into it. He was heading out the door for work and we had no time to talk.

I message Taylor about unrelated stuff, and crack a joke about not getting the male mind concerning the whole first dibs and sloppy seconds mentality. He jokes back and all seems fine. However, a big text drama ensues where he complains about how he isn't seeing anyone right now, and feels I basically just told him to get in line for my time. Then, for good measure, he tosses in how he had to help me today with our laptop and camera for some work I'm doing this weekend. So I tell him I'll cancel. I don't want him feeling slighted at all.

And now, let me count, 7 times I'm told he is fine and doesn't care if I keep plans with Jack.
 
I never kept a journal before, but this seems to be shaping up to be one for me.

I've got so many thoughts swirling around in my head. The many years of practice with monogamy seemed to make at least the initial stages of connecting with someone easier. A more clearly-mapped route. To be committed or not to be.

It occurred to me that because I already have a primary relationship with legal commitment, I was not making sure I knew what Jack's relationship goals might be. I guess since I feel limited on what I can offer, compared to when I was single, I was overlooking the importance of finding out? But really, when I was single, I would ask these things to determine longer-term compatibility, before anyone started getting too revved up with the chemical love physical affection creates.

So I asked him, for reference, what his longest relationship was. A three-month monogamous one, with a saturation of one-on-one time. and a 7-month breezy FWB that faded due to her traveling a lot and just not getting back in touch with him after one trip. He calls her now and then, but she doesn't return the calls.

So I asked him why his relationships have not lasted long. He says he struggles to build a connection deeper than friendship beyond the physical part, and they get fed up and drop him. Now, I've been seeing him since July. The circumstance of our association allows whatever connection struggles he has to go unnoticed. If anything, I've been pleasantly surprised with the level of interest and time he has asked for from me. I guess I'm just not someone who expects a deeply-committed connection as quickly as others. Maybe it's just me, but if the longest time anyone he has seen has been 3 months before getting fed up with what he offers-- he's been meeting really impatient people?

The second part of what he shared was that apparently, he wants a GF, and from the sound of it, he would prefer a monogamous relationship style. I cannot give this to him. He seems content to continue seeing me, for now, for a lack of options with what he would prefer to have with someone. He requests time from me, seems eager to fit me into his schedule, and all this speaks to me as an indication that I am wanted. That I can't give him his longer-term goal doesn't change what we do with our time together. It does however, change what options I thought might be possible *someday*.

In the past, when I learned that someone I was seeing did not have long-term compatibility with myself, I would quickly exit stage left. To continue on with a real mismatch of goals seemed to me to be a waste of time for them and myself. Whatever time they would be giving to finding someone more compatible with their goals would be impinged on by any time they gave to me. All the while with me knowing I was not what they preferred.

So I guess I'm wondering what my responsibility is in all this. Start making the time we share more a friends-type of association? Soak up his time until Magical Mono GF falls out of the sky? Will she also face whatever it is that has made other people give up on him? I mean, if he truly does struggle to make a "deeper connection" with romantic partners, maybe what we have going on is a better fit for him than what he says he wants? But, at the same time, I have trouble putting stock in the idea that he really does have this struggle, when the longest amount of time anyone has afforded him is three months. I wasn't head over heels for my husband for longer than that.

So many "what ifs"!

What if Mono GF does come along? We would have to stop having sex for him to live up to the expectations of Mono GF. Fine, we become friends. But would she be comfortable with him having a friend that he only recently stopped having sex with? And if the goal is for us to end up just being friends, why should that wait until someone comes along? The longer we continue on as is, the more likely I am to feel attached and have sore feelings over the transition.

GAHHHH! Why can't I be one of those people who just doesn't think so much?
 
Vincezzo, your last post sounded a lot like my bf Mono's early posts. We had so much to negotiate. You are in a different position than we were, but similar also. Maybe reading some of Mono's earlier posts would help?
 
I'm in a similar position. I know I am my BF A's rebound relationship after his marriage. He is mono. We were friends and fell in love. He knew that I wouldn't be leaving my husband. However, wanted to continue the relationship. A few weeks ago, after I talked to him about some long-term issues I had with hubs, told him I wanted a d in the heat of the moment. He apparently, felt that I would follow through with this and I would begin a permanent LTR mono relationship with him. I told Husband this and that I would straighten this out. A and I had a long talk, almost broke up.

I explained that, for several reasons, we couldn't be together long term. We have decided to proceed with a quality, not quantity, relationship. We both feel this is where we are now. When he is ready to move on, we will transition to friends.

He isn't currently looking for another partner. We have a good understanding of this. I just know my life is better with him in it and I love him. So I am doing my best to meet his emotional needs and my husband's needs.

I am not going to worry about how long it lasts. I realize we aren't on a day-to-day thing. We have plans for future things together, so I am happy and secure. I also know he will always have love in his heart for me.
 
redpepper said:
Vincezzo, your last post sounded a lot like Mono's early posts. We had so much to negotiate. You are in a different position than we were but similar in ways also. Maybe reading some of Mono's earlier posts would help?
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I did read some of his earlier ones; thanks for suggesting. I think he is a bit like me in that he is calculating. Not a negative thing as it doesn't imply the grade of intentions so much as it is just about weighing odds and getting caught up in possibilities without evidence. Really, I'm over thinking possible factors rather than real factors. I'm stuffing the majority of my musings in the mental wait and see box. If, in the end, I get my heart caught up and it results in hurt it isn't going to be anything I haven't weathered before.

J and I had a discussion last night about this stuff. He is really good at the physical acts that imply emotion to others. The soft caring aspect is perhaps, misleading to others, prompting the "where is this headed?" talk a bit prematurely for him with his past partners. Just one of those things I noticed and offered up for his consideration. He did voice that some of the relationship ideals he holds are things that may or may not ever come to pass for him regardless of whether I'm in the picture or not. If we stopped seeing each other sexually, life does not guarantee him things like monogamous compatible partner, marriage, kids and even if it did - he doesn't know when he will be prepared for those things.

Time to go listen to the wisdom of the Rolling Stones and remember that I can still steer my ship towards what I need if not always what I want.
 
On the hubby end of things.

Since Adele withdrew from sexual interactions with him, wanting to just be friends "for a while", they have been in contact more than they ever were prior to relations as just friends. She lives a very compartmentalized life. Her roommate and their dynamic is never exposed to her other associations. There are other associations that she never exposes either. And these are the associations she frets over and complains about to him. He was feeling compelled to see these largely unknown people and their motivations as harmful to Adele, and being Mr. Emotional Tampon.

"So, how do you know the viewpoint you're being offered is not just a one-sided story?" was the question I put to him.

I also made sure she wasn't holding back on the physical intimacy till I gave it my blessing, and she said she wasn't. She just wasn't interested in dating anyone right now. Well okay, but that was what you said before dating Taylor.

When I would stand outside of things and consider what Taylor was dealing with, from the perspective of one of his friends, I was concerned for him. He is putting in what most people would see as BF duty. The shoulder to cry on when all these invisible people take advantage of her, the go-to guy for what she can't see on her own, Mr. Fix It. Well, I see him as the one being taken advantage of by her. No motivation on her end to address his needs; no physical intimacy, and well, why not? She doesn't have orgasms (her input here; not a guess) so what would she stand to gain in any reciprocity if all her needs are met freely?

Why am I seeing her this way? Is it because I want to see her in a bad light? No.

I grew concerned over this upon meeting the wife of one of Adele's past poly partners. :eek: Apparently, they are now divorcing because her husband was siphoning money and gifts to Adele out of their mutual account. I'd write this off as malicious gossip if Adele had not mentioned this guy to me long ago. Her words: "I know he wants more from me than I'm ever going to give him, but I'm not going to turn down what I can get out of it till he figures it out." Hmm...

At the time, I had no idea of the external dynamic the guy in question was dealing with, and just perceived him as she painted: a lecherous dude trying to buy her affections. She certainly never let it be know he was married, poly or no. Suddenly, the separation of her associations seems clearer.

In talking with Taylor, I am not worried abut him putting us in the poor house trying to get out of the friendzone with her. It's just not his style with anyone. And I do think she learned something over it, due to what she has shared about life-view changes she has made in the last year. So I wasn't warning him about money, so much as telling him it's in his hands to get what he needs if he is going to continue to know her on this level. I suggested he doesn't just wait for a green light, putting all the power in her hands.

He saw her in the afternoon yesterday, and found her not completely resistant. Some kissing ensued, and tentative plans made to meet up later, which did go well for him. He is now operating with his eyes open concerning her, and pleased to see he can have a voice in the course they take.

And with us becoming better at discussing these things without getting bogged down in ego and self-insertion, I am now at ease with letting him see if there is potential for him with her, rather than second-guessing him at every turn. I do think she is manipulative, but not necessarily with malignant intent. He will just need to speak up for himself, and not let her run him over due to feeling bad about his past mistake. He now realizes that she is quite capable of taking advantage of others if they let her, but we both see she doesn't do this with people who won't allow it.

Maybe we can all grow out of this? I care about her enough to see what comes of it. Sometimes people just need some expectation placed on them to learn to live up to any.
 
Vinccenzo said:
Sometimes people just need some expectation placed on them to learn to live up to any.
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This is all very well, but I have found that I set people up when I don't tell them what those expectations are. And that isn't fair. I find it better to let people know what I expect, even if it isn't rational to them. At least we can start talking about what is. She might do better to know what you think, and that you expect it to be different now because she has that bit of knowledge about herself. I think it would also be kind to offer her suggestions and ask her how she feels knowing how you feel about it all, and what she thinks she could do to make changes that work better for all involved.
 
redpepper said:
This is all very well, but I have found that I set people up when I don't tell them what those expectations are. And that isn't fair. I find it better to let people know what I expect even if it isn't rational to them. At least we can start talking about what is. She might do better to know what you think and that you expect it to be different now because she has that bit of knowledge about herself. I think it would also be kind to offer her suggestions and ask her how she feels knowing how you feel about it all and what she thinks she could do to make changes that work better for all involved.
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I'm not withholding my thoughts or expectations from her. I'm sorry if something I shared gave you that impression. These posts get long enough without putting down the content of all conversations surrounding the moments I share! ;)
 
Vinccenzo said:
I'm not withholding my thoughts or expectations from her. I'm sorry if something I shared gave you that impression. These posts get long enough without putting down the content of all conversations surrounding the moments I share!
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Sorry, I didn't think you were necessarily as I don't recall you saying that you had talked to her about it. I was just commenting on the importance of it, and my own experiences with it.
 
redpepper said:
sorry, I didn't think you were necessarily as I don't recall you saying that you had talked to her about it, I was just commenting on the importance of it. And my own experience of that. :)
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It's cool. I do hold some back concerning her in case Taylor decides he wants to make his own posts.
 
And now a whole new dynamic to jealousy.

Taylor and I had an awesome date night with each other last weekend. Dressed up to meow, really trendy spot with unusual menu items (like grasshoppers, pumpkin mole sauce and confit of baby pig tacos), came home on cloud nine with us both saying this place could be one of "our" special spots for date nights that we only take each other to, and just blisteringly hot for each other.

Great, right? Well, dumbass me thanked him for the night on his FB page when he linked the restaurant and raved about it. Now who I see is all sheepish and making comments about how he should probably take me out for similar (but not saying specifically this restaurant) and who husband sees is grumbling about being jealous that she didn't get grasshoppers!

Whaaaaat?!?
 
This past week had some surprises.

I volunteered to help set up for a craft bazaar a few towns over from my own. Originally the meet-up spot for folks who needed a ride was at my train stop, but at the last minute it was changed to one at the other end of the line. My husband was willing to drop me at that station because the line should be a circle, but it hasn't been completed, and I'd have to ride in a loop just to end up a few miles from the station closest to me. I told Jack about it, and he offered to be the one who took me instead, so Taylor could just head straight to the office where he has been installing a server all weekend. We made further plans for him to pick me up so we could hang out together afterward.

Jack gave me a kiss before I left with the girl who was driving. She knew I was married and asked if he was my husband. For the sake of keeping it short, I told her my husband was working this weekend and Jacl was my boyfriend; that we were poly and she'd probably meet my husband some other time. She was not weird about it at all. In fact, I made a new friend and we all had a great time marking off the bazaar area for the individual booths and setting up tables.

When Jack picked me up, I told him what I'd said to the girl who met me at the station. I realized at the last minute that "boyfriend" had fallen out of my mouth. :eek:

We sat there in silence for a few seconds while I internally panicked, but he put his hand on mine and told me it was appropriate. He said that we've been seeing each other four months and he had grown fond of me and really enjoyed the time we spent. That was nice and we had a great night.

I learned that he had been seeing someone when we met. It was a casual relationship with someone who traveled often and for long stretches. He said she never seemed very into him until she knew he was seeing someone else. She began to bad mouth me and the circumstances. They argued about it. After that, she just disappeared. I felt bad, because I know he is more monogamy-minded, and she wasn't married or anything, but he said he didn't trust the way she rarely made time for him, even to just call, until she thought she had to compete.

That morning, however, I told him some of the thoughts that had been going through my head over the past week. One being that the cosmic comedy of life would probably bring someone to him that was more in line with what he idealizes the moment I start growing emotionally invested.

Why do I always have to be so spot on with this shit? Its getting eerie!

His response to that was that someone he has known for a while just found out that he lives near her and has asked him to hang out. He admitted he wondered if she meant that in a friendly way or in a romantic way.

So who knows how long this boyfriend tag will stay appropriate?
 
Things are still going well for me with both Taylor and Jack. Jack came out with us in a large group of our friends to dress up as zombies for an organized Zombie Walk through the downtown section of our neighborhood. It was a really fun night.

Things on Taylor's end with Adele have been going steadily downhill though. It doesn't seem to matter how friendly or welcoming I am with her. She was also invited out with us for the Zombie Walk, but refused to join us. She now prefaces any time she and Taylor see each other with:

"I'm never going to be the "Husband's GF."
"I would never want to share someone in a relationship."
"I would want someone all to myself."
"We are just screwing and nothing more."

Is it odd that this pisses me off? I can't really find the words to express how I feel about it knowing this is her thinking. Part of it is that if she does feel this way, she is doing something she would feel betrayed by, if she were in my shoes. And it also lends to this feeling that Taylor is being treated pretty shabbily. Pretty much the same way I would view it if a guy had ever said to me, "Shut up and give me your vagina; I don't want anything else out of you."

It has also become obvious that part of her new attitude is due to having chucked any attempts to slow down with her drinking. Right back to out- of-control and binge drinking. He is getting pretty frustrated.
 
It sounds like this is what it is. You can either take her as she presents herself or cut the dead weight and focus on finding someone who is more of a like mindset as yourselves.
 
NeonKaos said:
It sounds like this is what it is. You can either take her as she presents herself or cut the dead weight and focus on finding someone who is more of a like mindset as yourselves.
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I agree, and sex just for the sake of sex isn't something that bothers me. It's that 6 months in, her attitude has a biting and vindictive edge to it. I'm confused as to why, when we have tried being more inclusive and welcoming and not limiting her to being treated to toy status. She seemed friendlier and more caring before we tried being so welcoming. It seems off and confusing.
 
Vinccenzo said:
I agree and sex just for the sake of sex isn't something that bothers me. Its that 6 months in, her attitude has a biting and vindictive edge to it. I'm confused as to why when we have tried being more inclusive and welcoming and not limiting her to being treated to toy status. She seemed friendlier and more caring before we tried being so welcoming. It seems off and confusing.
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Actually, it reads pretty straightforward to me. She was fine being used as a sex toy or FWB. (I assume you were at that status.) She has a difficult time understanding sharing or being in a non-monogamous relationship with someone she loves.

It sounds like she isn't poly or even non-monogamous. It sounds like she had fun, enjoyed the threesome, twosome whatever, but doesn't want to conceptualize or be part of a triad. The sharing aspect is making it uncomfortable. You becoming more welcoming is not what she wanted.

I think she is being honest, and you don't want to accept it. In my triad that brought me into poly, we had the exact same kind of girl. If it was FWBs, then she was fine. The second feelings started to come up she became uncomfortable. This girl would not consider herself non-monogamous because she was not monogamous at the time. Having sex with two people in an uncommitted situation is very different than actually being non-monogamous. I suppose I was lucky. When it became uncomfortable, my "third" cut it off. She knew it was a mistake to continue, regardless of the sex.
 
Ariakas said:
Actually it reads pretty straight forward to me.

She was fine being used as a sex toy or FWB (I assume you were at that status)

She has a difficult time understanding sharing or being in a non-monogamous relationship with someone she loves

It sounds like she isn't poly or even non-monogamous. It sounds like she had fun, enjoyed the threesome, twosome whatever, but doesn't want to conceptualize or be part of a triad. The sharing aspect is making it uncomfortable. You becoming more welcoming is not what she wanted...:)

I think she is being honest and you don't want to accept it. In my triad that brought me into poly we had the exact same kind of girl. If it was FWB than she was fine. The second feelings started to come up she became uncomfortable. This girl would not consider herself non-monogamous because she was not monogamous at the time. Having sex with two people in an uncommitted situation is very different than actually being non-monogamous. I suppose I was lucky and it became uncomfortable, my "third" cut it off. She knew it was a mistake to continue, regardless of the sex.
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This is essentially what I was trying to say too.
 
Ariakas said:
I think she is being honest and you don't want to accept it.
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Hardly not willing to accept it. Just a bit frustrated, as the entire tone of our initial set-up was what she complained about. Now she has what she asked for, she is bothered and wants it the way it was before. :rolleyes:

It's limping its way to the recycling bin.

And my take on it is a bit different. She tried managing her alcohol consumption because of problems it caused with her social circle and us. At one point, we were the only reason some of our mutual friends continued to invite her around. After a month of doing better with drinking, she is back to binge drinking. So it's all walls up and avoiding anyone who was concerned for her over it. The wanting it back to the way it was before is pretty much a want for us to not care about how much she drinks anymore, despite that her father is dying of liver failure, and it runs high in her family without being related to drinking.

It's her drinking habits she knows we won't accept. And she wants to continue to binge drink.
 
So I've been seeing Jack since early June. I like him. I enjoy his company. And he is really ideal because he respects my marriage and shows earnest in forging a friendship with Taylor.

A couple months ago, I felt what I perceived to be the first rush of NRE. He was doing things that signaled to me that he was quite fond of me in a way that wasn't exclusively about sex. I liked that.

It did make me worry about a few things, and we had a great, informative conversation about it that made us both feel closer to each other. I thought this was the kick-off for all the NRE that gets talked about on here. But then we had friends come to town and family stuff, and Jack had to leave town for a week for work. After a really bonding conversation, I didn't see him for shy of 3 weeks. It ebbed away.

We've been inviting him along on outings with friends. He comes over almost once a week, just to hang out with us as friends, and that has moved up to some small exchanges of affection in front of Taylor. We discussed it first, to find out what Taylor was comfortable with, and what is "overboard." But I still don't feel like I can enjoy these small gestures when Taylor is around. Its not something Taylor is doing; its me. I just can't relax about it.

And as far as the NRE goes, no rush or WHAM, like I'd been warned. It lasts about 6 months? Well, it's been 6 months, and hasn't really happened. I first chalked it up to being someone who has a slow wind-up to an emotional connection. But looking back, this is kinda inaccurate. The delays of the past were typical of a lack of compatibility, or through deliberate self control (like the first year after my ex and I ended an 8-year relationship).

So I'm left wondering if this is me experiencing a lack of compatibility, or the side effect of not being able to relax because I don't have any experience in extending love to someone new when I already have love for another. I don't feel compelled to seek a new secondary partner. I don't feel a lack of fondness for Jack. I guess I'm just wondering if anyone else finds it unusual to see someone for this long and not feel the NRE rush?
 
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