I need some advice

[benson]

This is a long story. I came to an online forum because I don't have lots of people to talk about this.

I have been with my partner for about 8 years now. I was poly when I met her and at that time I had two other serious partnerships. I told her from the beginning on that the only type of relationship I would consider, would be polyamory. She struggled with it because she was monogamous and was just coming out of a very hard break-up. Three months after we started dating, these two other partnerships ended almost parallel due to its own reasons. One of them was particularly harsh for me, as that partner "dumped" me from someone else from whom she fell for, and she said she realized she just wanted monogamous relationships and kicked me out. That broke my heart and I could not understand it, I felt into a dark hole for some months. In the meantime, the relationship with my partner flourished. We worked hard and built something I always thought it was very solid. I love her very much and I believe she loves me too that much.

I continued having other affairs. As I knew she felt very insecure I put a lot of care in building trust, making agreements and taking care of her all the time. I would reassure her every-time she was insecure. We tried different different sort of agreements. At first I had to tell her everything and in consequence I didn't have anything, and then I requested to not to share things. None of these affairs became serious relationships for me, as I was putting some limits to care for my partner. There was a person for whom I had a crazy crush for two years, but I never moved. I knew my feelings for this person were too strong, and I didn't act on them.

Time passed, my partner came one night and told me she felt deeply in love with someone. I didn't expect it and I went nuts. I was supposed to be the poly-amorous person, she insisted she was monogamous, but then she said she wasn't anymore, she wanted to try it. And as it happened with my previous partner, I knew people can change their minds all of the sudden. I was going through a very hard time at work back then. Some people were bullying me and I was depressed. I could barely get out of bed those days, I asked her to give me some time, and I know that she didn't pursue that relationship anymore. I never asked her if she experimented any sort of regret for that. I just know that it stopped, and that our relationship continued. I also stopped having other affairs, I suddenly was not so interested anymore, my libido went down, this happened through the years and I think it was due depression.

After a year or two, she told me she was in love with a coworker. That was again a bad psychological time for me. In general, every time she came to tell me this I was always going through a depression. I was a mess and that confession made things worse. But we didn't talk that much about it, she also didn't act on this. We moved on, I never asked her if she regretted not acting on it.

Some years passed. We built more trust and reached levels of commitment and intimacy that I never experienced before. Most of the romantic relationships that I witnessed or experienced before in my life were a mess, I don't think I can name a single one that was successful, except those of my grandparents who were together in a time when people never got divorced. They seemed to love each other, but the rest of the couples I met were sleeping with the enemy. My parents lived with lots of violence, my father was brutal against my mum and me for years and then he left us. She got then together with a man who molested her children.

And now we are at this point again, my partner told me last week she is very much in love with someone and that she is going to date this person. I have been very depressed for about six months before these news, I have been seeing a therapist and dealing with the stories of sexual abuse in my family. Again it's not a good time for me but to be honest, it never seems to be a good time. My emotions are a mess. We moved together 8 months ago and we slept in the same bed every single night until she told me that last week. Now I hate it, because I know when she comes late or doesn't come home and when we weren't living together, I didn't.

I love the idea of polyamory and I believe this is the way in which healthy relationships evolve, because its so natural to fall in love with people, and you can't control it. Falling in love with others just happens and everyone can also love more than one person. I have many people who I love deeply, my love is not limited to just a certain quantity. And yet, my emotions are this messy. I have a feeling that I am broken inside, that I can't trust anyone. I only trust myself and I can trust my word when I say that I am going to take care of her or others and I move the world for it. I have always done it. But I cannot trust other people taking care of me or even keeping their word. I also don't know a single successful poly-amorous relationship that lasted over many years and wasn't eventually destroyed with some intense drama.

There is a big part of me who rationally think that I shouldn't be an obstacle and that the best thing is to encourage her to do and love as much as she wants. And then there is an emotional part of me that is terrified, depressed and just wants to die.

Would love to get some advice, specially from any of you who experienced successful poly relationships. Thanks for your time.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello benson,

It sounds like your main problem is your depression, and maybe trust issues, you do not trust anyone other than yourself, ergo, you do not trust your partner. And maybe you are afraid that if you "let" your partner date this new person, that she will end up leaving you for the new person. I am just wondering, but is work any better for you these days? Are those people still bullying you at work? Do you find it's still hard to get out of bed?

Probably the most important thing for you to do is something you are already doing; that is, meeting with your therapist and unpacking your childhood. You may also need meds for your depression, is that something you and your therapist have discussed?

You believe in polyamory; trust your instincts and let it have a place in your life. Keep meeting with your therapist and doing all you can to manage your depression.

Regards,
Kevin T.

 

[icesong]

I honestly sort of wonder if part of the reason for the timing is because when one is depressed, one naturally pulls back from one’s partner(s). I’ve certainly done it, as has literally everyone I know, mono and poly alike. So maybe the only time your partner ever has the... space in her affections to look at/for someone new, consider them as a partner, is when you have these rough patches.

It certainly makes things much more difficult for you and for that I am sorry.

When you moved out of the depression in the past, did you encourage her to date now that things were better or did you just let it ride?

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you struggle. I'm also sorry to hear your father was abusive to you and your mom. And that the new man in your mom's life also hurt her kids. I presume you included. (What have you done to help heal from the past? Is this playing into your current depression? )

We built more trust and reached levels of commitment and intimacy that I never experienced before.

We worked hard and built something I always thought it was very solid. I love her very much and I believe she loves me too that much.

Ok. So you trust her more than anyone.

I have a feeling that I am broken inside, that I can't trust anyone

Well, that seems contrary. You seemed to say you trusted her.

I only trust myself and I can trust my word when I say that I am going to take care of her or others and I move the world for it. I have always done it. But I cannot trust other people taking care of me or even keeping their word.

Does she not help take care of you? Does she not keep her word?

There is a big part of me who rationally think that I shouldn't be an obstacle and that the best thing is to encourage her to do and love as much as she wants. And then there is an emotional part of me that is terrified, depressed and just wants to die.

Why are you terrified and depressed and want to die at the idea of her being a hinge also? What are you thinking to yourself that makes you upset? Is it because it is new? Is it because you think she will dump you like the other partner did? Is it because you think your previous good relationship with her will turn into intense drama now that she wants to poly-date? Is it because you think.... what?

What is your preference at this time?

• To leave it be, and ask her to be Closed on her side? Or both sides Closed?
  
• To face the fears and learn to deal with being an (poly-poly relationship) now rather than a (mono-poly relationship) like before?
  
• Something else?

Would love to get some advice, specially from any of you who experienced successful poly relationships.

Hard to advise when I don't know what it is you prefer/are shooting for. Could you please be willing to clarify? What would you like to have happen?

Galagirl

 

[benson]

Thank you so much everyone who replied. Very much appreciated.

My partner spent the night away last night for first time since we live together. She met this person but didnt tell me about it. She also didnt tell me she wouldn't come back. As you can see she is at all not experienced with polyamory. It was a crazy night for me. None of my friends were available, I also didnt ask any of them specifically to come home with me, I think next time I need do it. I had terrible thoughts and I tried to help myself survive the night with some useful meditations. The pain I experience is unbearable. Sometimes I think that jumping out of the window would finally alleviate this pain, but the only reason I don't do it its because I know this pain will be transmitted to those who stay behind and grieve, and I don't find that fair.

Replies to some specific questions:

• My depression comes and goes, its usually due different reasons. Believe it or not, until end of last year, I was never aware that I had a depression.
• These people bullying me was 5 years ago and I am not working there anymore. I have a depression since last year, I have been struggling really bad with life in society because of my gender identity, I am a non-binary person and I still didn't manage to get my name legally changed, its a battle that lasts more than a year now, and the fact that I need to use that dead-name is killing me. Because of these reasons, I started to look for a therapist to support me. Talking with her, I started opening the pandora box of my childhood and the domestic violence and childhood abuse. It has been an emotional nightmare and these have been some incredible tough months for me. In between I moved in with my partner and she is more aware of my depression too. We also practically stopped having sex, as my libido is really low. I was aware that this could lead her finding a lover, but I dont have the energy for that other relationship to became serious. I work as self-employed but I had no energy to work for six months, so I am living out of my savings.
  
• I am not taking meds and ideally I don't want to. The tough part is that my therapist just left on holidays for a month and she comes back only middle Sept.
  
• That leads me to renegotiate the conditions of this polyamory relationship with my partner. After an intense discussion when she came back today, we agreed we will talk in the afternoon and make some agreements. The problem is that she is very inexperienced in polyamory. She doesn't know how to take care of me, we didn't talk about any new agreements before launching herself on this date. She said she had no idea I was that bad even though in the morning I told her I was in breakdown and I cant cope with this new relationship yet. She said she thought I would be sleeping and not noticing she was away... I was an emotional mess when she came back and I had to tell her how to take care of me. I told her to hug me and tell me that everything will be fine, that she loves me and that we are not going to lose this relationship.
  
• I am not sure I have the energy to go through this open relationship now and I am not sure I have the energy to live in the same flat while this happens. I am thinking what to do next. As I said before, it never seemed to be a good time for us to open up, and she is absolutely determined she will go serious on this one. Whatever that means.
  
• About the topic of trust, I believe I trust her very much, but in moments like this when there is a possibility of anyone leaving me, my primitive fear kicks in and nobody seems to be trustworthy. I connect it with the fact of my father left me when I was 5 after (even though I suffered his beatings). Until now, I could never stand anyone leaving me. If I ever felt that this was a possibility, I took the first step and left them first (except with that partner who became monogamous, that was unexpected). Why? My guess is that it mentally puts me in control over a situation I have no control of.
  
• About my preference, I would prefer to keep it closed until I have some ground under my feet. I dont think this is an option for her though, we will discuss this today. And knowing how happened in the past, something inside tells me I should open up and dont block her desires. My fear here is my lack of energy and her inexperience in polyamory.

When you moved out of the depression in the past, did you encourage her to date now that things were better or did you just let it ride?

No, I didnt. We just moved on and I never asked her if she regretted not acting on them.

PS: sorry, I am just learning to quote. Will get better.

 

[GalaGirl]

Thank you for more details.


Glad you have become aware that you have depression and are working with a therapist to help you.

Glad you no longer work where the bullies are. It's ok if you have to live out of savings for now. Do you have a plan to return to your self employed thing once your medical stuff settles down a bit more?

I'm sorry the legal name change is taking so long. Other than for legal reasons, can you use your preferred name some? I know a woman who divorced an abusive man and for financial reasons could not dump his last name for a while. She used her single name everywhere but on her paycheck and her legal ID. She told her boss the situation and at work everyone called her by her preferred name. I never knew she even had another name until one day after years of working together I had to pick up envelopes for her and she told me to look for this other name because that is her paycheck one.

If your therapist thinks meds are appropriate, would you change your mind about a short run of meds to help you in this rough patch? Esp with therapist on holidays, the new poly thing happening, still processing the past, etc.

The problem is that she is very inexperienced in polyamory. She doesn't know how to take care of me, we didn't talk about any new agreements before launching herself on this date.

I think having some honest talks about that might help.

I had to tell her how to take care of me. I told her to hug me and tell me that everything will be fine, that she loves me and that we are not going to lose this relationship.

So tell her what you need so she can learn because she's a newbie and so you can get what you need in the way you need it. You might also need better "before care" -- so you connect with her before she leaves as well as "after care" when she gets back as you navigate this change. Might not need the extra attention forever, but this is new. So nothing wrong with asking for some extra attention if you need it right now.

http://openingup.net/resources/free-downloads-from-opening-up/

Maybe you can do those sheets together to help you in your talks? What is "green" like go? What is "yellow" like "proceed with caution?" What is "red" like "no, stop?" What is "black" like "no way in hell never!"

Then do it again a few months and see what can change colors and loosen up. That way she can see that this time it is different and while slow it is moving forward. And you are not getting triggered by fears of abandonment since you see over time she's holding up her end of the sticks.

I am not sure I have the energy to go through this open relationship now and I am not sure I have the energy to live in the same flat while this happens.

Maybe changing to live separately again could help. Or move to a flat with at least separate bedrooms or more communication about calendar.

I am thinking what to do next. As I said before, it never seemed to be a good time for us to open up, and she is absolutely determined she will go serious on this one.

It sounds like she wants to pursue this potential this time rather than dropping it like before for sake of your comfort level.

About the topic of trust, I believe I trust her very much, but in moments like this when there is a possibility of anyone leaving me, my primitive fear kicks in and nobody seems to be trustworthy. I connect it with the fact of my father left me when I was 5 after (even though I suffered his beatings). Until now, I could never stand anyone leaving me. If I ever felt that this was a possibility, I took the first step and left them first (except with that partner who became monogamous, that was unexpected). Why? My guess is that it mentally puts me in control over a situation I have no control of.

In the short term, you leaving first does prevent them leaving you first.

In the long term, it does nothing to eradicate the fear of "I cannot cope if they leave."

You had other partners leave. You coped. Maybe it wasn't FUN, but you coped.

I wonder if you are not giving yourself enough credit for being strong and resilient? NOBODY battles all the things you have gone through without inner strength. Strong people get super TIRED of the battle, and it can be depressing to have to keep going like that. But I don't read anything "weak" here. Just maybe time to change the approach so it is less taxing. Like... you are gone from the bullies at work. So don't have to spend energy keeping that wall up any more. Maybe there are other walls you are energetically keeping up that could be reduced a little bit?

About my preference, I would prefer to keep it closed until I have some ground under my feet.

What does that mean? Til your therapist is back from holiday? That might be doable if you ask her.

Does it mean til you guys move and have separate flats? That might take longer so you may have to compromise on some things there. Like teaching her what you need for before/after care before she goes, and on her side agreeing not to bring dates over to the house until you guys can have separate flats.

And knowing how happened in the past, something inside tells me I should open up and dont block her desires.

Probably. Since she dropped previous potentials to support you in your things and your comfort? It might be her turn. You support her in her things this time.

My fear here is my lack of energy and her inexperience in polyamory.

Energy -- could consider meds plus agreements on use of the shared home to reduce stress of people being around too much there. See where you are spending energy that you don't have to spend. (ex: work walls when you don't work with the bullies any more)

Inexperience -- could talk and make some initial agreements that can change over time.

Both seem addressable.

Galagirl

 

[Arius]

It's a scientific fact that the most effective anti-depressant - far more effective than any pill - is exercise. Get your heart pumping for 30+ minutes at least 3x a week. Sometimes you need the pills to get out of bed and start exercising, but that's all I would ever even consider using them for. I strongly recommend watching this Ted Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drv3BP0Fdi8. It has the power to change your life.

There are other crucial factors too. Healthy diet (no sugar or processed food), good sleep practices (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKhdh_GIxKc), socializing, anti-rumination activities such as meditation, yoga, and/or gratitude journalling, meaningful work...

Finding good ways to distract yourself, or going out yourself, on nights when your partner has dates is a strategy I've found effective. Invite a friend over to watch a movie. Go for a fast walk. etc.

 

[powerpuffgrl1969]

It's a scientific fact that the most effective anti-depressant - far more effective than any pill - is exercise. Get your heart pumping for 30+ minutes at least 3x a week. Sometimes you need the pills to get out of bed and start exercising, but that's all I would ever even consider using them for.

It sounds as if you are shaming people who need medications in order to function in everyday life. I am one of those people and I am DEEPLY offended.

My guess is that you have NO medical or psychiatric degrees to back up such a claim. So, I would suggest to keep such "facts" to yourself.

 

[Arius]

It sounds as if you are shaming people who need medications in order to function in everyday life. I am one of those people and I am DEEPLY offended.

My guess is that you have NO medical or psychiatric degrees to back up such a claim. So, I would suggest to keep such "facts" to yourself.

You've moved from a guess about shaming people (what evidence is there of shaming in my previous post?) to a guess about my educational background to an angry suggestion that feels like silencing and bullying to me.

No need to put the word "facts" in quotes. They ARE facts. I'm sorry that you interpreted those facts as shaming. They weren't meant to be. Some people do seem to function better on drugs, and I am always careful to mention this, as I did above. But it IS a fact that exercise is the most powerful thing you can do to cure depression. I'm not going waste my day looking up all the studies for you. I know this based on research and personal experience.

Obviously exercise is the last thing most depressed people want to do, and it can be a lot more complicated than that. Again, I was careful to mention that in my earlier post.

Maybe it would help if I said that as far as I'm concerned there's no such thing as free will, there are reasons for every single thing a person does, the roots of which none of us chose, and that I therefore do not blame anybody for their own behaviour. I do try to hold people accountable when their behaviour hurts me, but that's as a practical measure - I don't judge or shame them (except by accident, when I'm not thinking clearly), and I forgive quickly and easily because I know there are always reasons why they did what they did.

I'm not particularly interested in taking responsibility for your own shame, and I'm not going to be bullied into shutting up about the fact that exercise is an effective depression treatment just because other people might be offended by that value-neutral notion.

I have post-secondary education in psychology, actually, and my "opinions" are backed up by a whole body of research. It's sort of amazing that such a body of research even exists, in a climate where the pharmaceutical industry owns all the medical textbooks and has its claws deep into every reputable scientific journal. If pharmaceutical companies don't directly own the journals, they exert heavy influence by buying up advertising space. That's not paranoia - it's a fact about how the media works, and journals are no exception. Psychological researchers routinely complain about how hard it is to get research published when their conclusions don't support the chemical industry, and a lot of them don't even bother trying to do that research because they know this already. But this body of research does exist, and it's there for you to explore if you don't believe me.

I have been on a host of anti-depressants in my life before I quit them and never went back. Again, that doesn't mean that YOU should quit anti-depressants and never go back. It's what *I* did, and I'm always careful to frame it that way. But I think my personal experience with them is just as valid as yours. The difference here is that I'm not trying to use MY personal experience to shut YOU up.

Any implications of my statement that exercise can cure depression (which it can) to the effect that people who don't do this are "lazy" or whatever is a combination of societal pressures, values, and ideas, and your own shame. I would never say such a thing. I am not judging you, and I'm not sure where you got that idea. And I'm also not going to stop telling people about effective treatments for depression just because some people might be upset by them or take what I say personally.

I am "deeply offended" by the way depression has been framed as a "chemical imbalance" in order for the chemical industry to sell pills that actually can make people suicidal, give them ED, etc, are only marginally effective for certain people, and actually have no benefit for a lot of other people. Maybe your brain chemistry IS off, but brain chemistry exists in response to both genetic AND environmental factors, and the environmental factors are frequently the issue. Change your situation and habits, etc, you can change your brain chemistry. If you want to. I don't CARE if you do or not, and am not saying or even trying to imply that you SHOULD do anything. It's your life. I'm just providing information.

My facts are based on general conclusions of the field of cognitive psychology, including but not limited to doctor David D. Burns, as well as some of the more holistic work of doctors Stephen Ilardi and Andrew Weil - all of whom have had great success treating people with depression. If that's not good enough for you, fine, go your own way. But don't police my comments.

 

[lunabunny]

Arius, while it's true that exercise, improving one's diet and so on can help alleviate the symptoms of low mood and depression, and provide a "boost" of energy, I believe your statement that it can "cure" ALL depression to be a gross over-generalisation and even dangerous for some people who may be reading this.

I myself am autistic; a co-morbidity of this condition is high anxiety. My anxiety has a tendency to become severe/chronic during periods of sustained high stress, and at these times I am prone to lapsing into a state of deep depression.

Generally, I try to do without anti-depressants for as long as I can fight the symptoms of depression - including lack of self care, thoughts of self-harm and suicidal ideation - but there have been several times in my life when I have recognised I NEED more than just a positive attitude and lifestyle changes in order to cope with daily life, and that's when I've turned to medication. Doesn't mean everyone in the same boat needs to stay medicated for life - some do, some don't - but exercise is simply not an easy cure for many with serious, life-threatening depression.

One of my best friends suffers from delusional disorder for which she was involuntarily hospitalised a few years ago. This was a traumatic experience for her, no doubt, and unfortunately has left her with bitter feelings toward the psychiatric profession.

For many people who were already distrustful of "the System" and Big Pharma, reading blanket statements such as what you wrote above, only gives them more fuel to justify their anti-medication/anti-psychiatry stance... when in fact, their condition may be something that doesn't really respond to much other than appropriate medication.

What I'm saying is that "depression" can stem from different roots: it can be a "chemical imbalance" in the brain or the reactive type, and/or it can be a co-morbid condition that springs from another mental disorder or chronic health condition. Exercise, diet, socialising, meditating and so forth can only go so far towards helping someone who suffers from PTSD, schizophrenia, bipolar, autism, the effects of childhood abuse and countless other conditions for which medication including anti-depressants may be required.

 

[powerpuffgrl1969]

Sometimes you need the pills to get out of bed and start exercising, but that's all I would ever even consider using them for.

Arius, I was quoting you. You said (see above) that the ONLY reason to use pills is to get out of bed. If saying that what you wrote was irresponsible makes me a bully, then by all means label me that. I don't care.

I am an oncology nurse, and every day I see people consumed by cancer who got to that stage because they were spending insane amounts of money on "holistic" remedies as they have been led to believe that chemo is poison and Big Bad Pharma was going to kill them and leave them penniless. By they time they are willing to attempt more traditional therapies, it's too late.

Is Big Pharma a racket? Of course much of it is. So is a lot of holistic medicine.

But you do you. I just don't want the OP or anyone else to get the idea that they are a loser because exercising or other lifestyle changes just isn't cutting it.

 

[River]

It sounds as if you are shaming people who need medications in order to function in everyday life. I am one of those people and I am DEEPLY offended.

My guess is that you have NO medical or psychiatric degrees to back up such a claim. So, I would suggest to keep such "facts" to yourself.

I think we all need to be open to hearing differing points of view on these matters. It should be okay to share what you did, powerpuffgrl. But it should also be okay to question the medical orthodoxy in such matters.

I have deeply investigated the matter of corruption of science in medicine, and it's really not a pretty picture. We should not accept the "official" medical establishment's point of view on medication, surgery, etc., blindly. There really are other valid perspectives on these matters and the conversation should not be slammed shut.

This means we ALL need to be open and willing to hear divergent points of view on such matters. Expressing a divergent point of view certainly does not amount to "shaming".

 

[River]

Arius, I was quoting you. You said (see above) that the ONLY reason to use pills is to get out of bed.

No. Actually Arius did not say that. He rather expressed his own opinion and reasons in the context of his own situation -- and for himself. Read the actual words.

Please, everyone, let's respond to the actual words people say and not get all worked up about imaginary insults.

 

[River]

I have post-secondary education in psychology, actually, and my "opinions" are backed up by a whole body of research. It's sort of amazing that such a body of research even exists, in a climate where the pharmaceutical industry owns all the medical textbooks and has its claws deep into every reputable scientific journal. If pharmaceutical companies don't directly own the journals, they exert heavy influence by buying up advertising space. That's not paranoia - it's a fact about how the media works, and journals are no exception. Psychological researchers routinely complain about how hard it is to get research published when their conclusions don't support the chemical industry, and a lot of them don't even bother trying to do that research because they know this already. But this body of research does exist, and it's there for you to explore if you don't believe me.

What Arius says here is in perfect accord with the perspective I developed after years of instigating the minutia, details and particulars of precisely how corruption works in science and medicine. Money makes the rules in these fields, and that's a fact. It can be proven, or at least demonstrated to anyone's satisfaction. Sadly.

Edit:

I should qualify what I just said. Not all of science is corrupted in this way. The sciences which tend -- usually -- to be most corrupted are those in which a great deal of profit ($) is to be made through the distortion of scientific results. One of the few exceptions, actually, is climate science -- which has an extraordinarily low level of corruption for a science which stands to potentially disrupt a major and highly profitable industry (the fossil fuel industry). Medicine, I think, is one of the very most corrupt industries in the entire world. Explaining the how and why of this corruption is a long and complicated task. But not an impossible one.

 

[River]

Corruption in medical science occurs in complex and various ways, but one of the chief ways this systematised corruption operates is through the process whereby peer reviewed scientific research gets published, thus entering into the training which doctors and pharmacologists get, etc.

A very high percentage of medical research is done by and for the pharmaceutical industry, which is involved in both financing and designing ostensibly "scientific" medical research. But guess what? Many or most results never get published. The results get buried. Why? Because the results are not favourable to the financier / designer of the research. The scientific researchers have almost always signed a "confidentiality" or "non-disclosure agreement", which prevents them from legally making any mention of the "research" results if they are found not to serve the financial interests of the financiers / designers. Little or none of this info makes its way to the peer reviewed scientific journals. And little research gets done which does not have a profit motive. (You can't profit much on stuff which can't be commodified, such as exercise and good diet and sleep habits.) After all, scientific research is EXPENSIVE. Very--, running into millions of dollars. And you're competing with those who have tens or hundreds of millions of dollars to spend on lawyers and propaganda, etc. So who loses? We do.

What is considered to be true, real "medical science" tends overwhelmingly to be the "results" favored by a lucrative, commercial medical industry which thrives on outrageously expensive drugs, surgeries and procedures.

Big Pharma, Bad Science
https://www.thenation.com/article/big-pharma-bad-science/

Publication bias (a joke):
https://www.ted.com/talks/ben_golda...errer=playlist-the_dark_side_of_data#t-660745

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publication_bias

"Ha-ha, no, we're not interested in publishing your study which reveals nothing very interesting at all, thanks. But if you have a study result showing that wishful or magical thinking cures migraine headaches, sure, we can publish that."

https://www.ted.com/talks/ben_golda...hey_prescribe/discussion?language=en#t-108472

The drug industry doesn't work
https://www.economist.com/babbage/2012/11/06/the-drug-industry-doesnt-work

Research misconduct is not the exception, but the rule, in medical research.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_misconduct

 

[benson]

Thank you so much everyone who responded, I see that the conversation drifted a bit off topic, I think its valid to recognize that we all have different experiences and all of them are perfectly valid.

Thank you so much GalaGirl for all your words. I recognize I need to give myself more credit for that strength and resilience.

In the short term, you leaving first does prevent them leaving you first.
In the long term, it does nothing to eradicate the fear of "I cannot cope if they leave."
You had other partners leave. You coped. Maybe it wasn't FUN, but you coped.

Here again, you are absolutely right.

---

I felt into a deep dark hole this week. I made agreements with my partner, which she is respecting so far, however I notice that nothing makes me feel safe. I lost trust. I am super emotional, and became suspicious and controlling — I hate that. I have a big fear that she is going to leave me, that all the work we put so far is going to be trashed and it feels like I am grieving from before, my concern is that I am even making this happen. No matter how often she repeats she is not going to leave me, my feelings about that are way stronger than my rationality.

I was also trying to control my emotions. I tried to be cool with this, ignoring the insecurity, the fears, I tried to play fine, trying to fulfill her and my expectations on my polyamorous behavior, but it didn’t work out well. Two days ago I was in emotional roller-coaster, and I realize I need to acknowledge these fears and insecurities and recognize that they are there.

I called my friends, some of them are meeting me every day, some of them are available on the phone and some others are making sure I eat and sleep. I have issues sleeping at home as I feel too stressed being there at the moment, but I want to take some time to make a decision whether we can live together or not. I also contacted another therapist who I met yesterday when I was in despair. We are going to meet again today.

Does anyone have advice on how to build this trust? Did you have an experience where you were feeling a deep fear of abandonment and manage to feel safe and trust the other person? What did you do? How did you put your brain out of that panic state?