I think I am causing everyone pain

[sabrina8]

Hey, people!
I am turning to this forum as somehow last resort. I am in pain and confusion.
I had a two year relationship with an incarcerated person, which drained me both physically and emotionally. It was full of gaslighting and emotional abuse that I recognized only much later. I had a suicide attempt - I was constantly feeling bad and not even being able to understand how and why. Still, after this attempt I was willing to stay with this person, marry him and wait for him outside. What changed and made me end it was that nothing was changing - I was feeling depressed and unhappy and did not feel loved. A person, who seemed to genuinely love me and see in me what I did not even see in myself in terms of personality and potential entered my life. I will call him A. He helped me recognize the abuse, claimed that he would be honored to be in my life in whatever way I decide. I have never felt so stripped emotionally with anyone to this day and shortly after I ended my previous relationship we got together. I was so happy and feeling like I have found my life partner. That all of the men in my life have hurt me so much and he was so precious, wise and sensitive, having experienced abuse - both physical and emotional, himself.
We agreed in the beginning of our relationship that we want an open one. He had to travel and work and legal purposes every couple of months. We did not talk so much about the format of the open relationship - and it was needless, we were so in love, having eyes only for each other. We got married because of legal purposes - this was the only way he could be in my country for more than 3 months legally and not having to go back to his country all the time. After we got married and before he got his visa, he went to his country to work for longer (and also get the visa) so he would not have to go back there soon. I, myself also went to travel and do a seasonal job abroad, which turned to a life changing experience.
During my travels, I met a guy that I had a mind blowing crush on, had sex with him numerous times and got confused. I will call him B. I knew I loved my partner A, yet I was so attracted to this guy. I crossed so many sexual boundaries with him that I never thought I would and I was feeling that he cares about how I feel, so he would never do something to hurt me. I basically was feeling that there is another decent man, who was not just a friend and I could be with. His character is sort of unlike mine - I overshare, I soak up people's emotions and he, he keeps it all to himself. I think he could feel something for me, I even caught him talking to a stranger about his feelings for me, while we were waiting for my bus and I went to the shop for a moment. He told a stranger things about me he would not tell me. I kind of appreciated that, I felt he did not want to confuse me, since I was confused enough - I had never hidden the fact that I was in a relationship and married from him. He is really dear to my heart.
After this happening, guilt was crushing me. My partner asked me to have a break on this open relationship thing until we both come back and meet at home. I wholeheartedly agreed.
At the seasonal job, I met another person, C. He was immediately drawn to me, I was reluctant to do anything with him at first. Then I could see how much he cares, I immediately told him my situation. Still, everything that he wanted to do was kiss me and hold me in my sleep. I was attracted to him, both sexually and as a person. I confessed my attraction to my partner and my willingness to act on it. My partner gave me, what I read as mixed signals then and from a distance and through talks and chatting it seemed to be one day ok, one day not. Like an emotional roller coaster. I guess I got selfish and acted spontaneously on my feelings and had sex with C. When we parted ways, we cried. To this day this remains one of the most emotional and dramatic moments in my life.
My partner A was broken by me being with C, breaking a promise and what he saw as, compromising our relationship to be with someone else.
I end up consumed by guilt, still feeling like I followed my heart in each case and still... consumed by guilt and as if I am hurting everyone. I talk to C with whom we are very close, realizing we want different things from life and a relationship is not possible. I feel like I need to let him go. I talk to my partner A that I am waiting to come after 5 months apart. Because I want to be clear about mine and his feelings, I am going to see B and talk about what happened, what he wants, how he feels about it etc. A is feeling bad about it.
And me, I feel worthless. I feel like I should have died, that whatever I touch, I destroy.

 

[Vicki82]

Before I say anything else, I just wanted to say that it sounds like you're having a really difficult time right now and you could use some support that is more than just internet strangers on a message board. Have you talked to a doctor or a counsellor about your feelings? I think it would really help you to have some professional support. If you feel like you're having a crisis, I would definitely suggest you go to your local ER for help.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello sabrina8,

I think your main sticking point here is that A is having second thoughts about the open relationship you and he agreed upon. I am thinking that he no longer wants an open relationship, but he is reluctant to say so, so he is asking for a break. You probably would have been better off saying, "No, thank you," to the break, but I guess at the time you didn't know you were going to meet C. I think that now you need to decide whether you can live monogamously and be happy, because that's probably what A wants you to do. If you can't, then you and A are probably not compatible. I'm sorry if it sounds like I am recommending a divorce, I hope it doesn't come to that. You can't have a relationship with C in any case so that part is a moot point. Also I get the impression you broke up with B, so maybe that is a moot point as well. You might as well repair your relationship with A, but be aware that it will probably be a closed relationship. Can you live with that?

You did agree to take a break and in that case, probably shouldn't have had sex with C. But maybe having sex with C was your subconscious way of realizing that monogamy is not for you, not even taking a break on things. I think you are being rather hard on yourself, you are caught in a complicated and confusing situation but that doesn't mean you are some kind of villain. You just need to figure out what you want in life, and realize that you and A may be on diverging paths. Maybe you need to break up with A, and look for a new partner who will want to have an open/poly relationship with you. And A could look for a new partner who will want to have a closed/mono relationship with him. This would probably mean you would have to be alone for awhile, but it might be the kindest thing to do to both you and A in the long run. Think carefully about whether or not you can stand to live faithfully monogamously going forward. What if you meet another C? Could that happen?

It seems that you are hurting very much inside. I'm very sorry about that, and hope you can get to feeling better about yourself. You are a worthy and worthwhile person, you deserve good things in life.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you struggle.

FWIW? I think the mistake was here.

We agreed in the beginning of our relationship that we want an open one. He had to travel and work and legal purposes every couple of months. We did not talk so much about the format of the open relationship - and it was needless, we were so in love, having eyes only for each other.

Sounds like you are realizing that you DID need to talk about the format of the Open relationship so both are on the same page.

And maybe here.

We got married because of legal purposes - this was the only way he could be in my country for more than 3 months legally and not having to go back to his country all the time.

There is more to marriage than just making Visa things easier.

After this happening, guilt was crushing me. My partner asked me to have a break on this open relationship thing until we both come back and meet at home. I wholeheartedly agreed.

What crime did you do that you are guilty of? At that point you were in an Open relationship and able to see other people. You saw B. So... why the crushing thing?

I assume you mean your husband A asked to Close until you got home. Did you actually want to Close? Or did you actually want to leave it Open but agreed to Close from the guilt feelings?

If you wanted to leave it Open, you could have said "No. I do not agree. I prefer to leave it Open, and leave any renegotiation talk to when you are here."

I was attracted to him, both sexually and as a person. I confessed my attraction to my partner and my willingness to act on it. My partner gave me, what I read as mixed signals then and from a distance and through talks and chatting it seemed to be one day ok, one day not. Like an emotional roller coaster. I guess I got selfish and acted spontaneously on my feelings and had sex with C. When we parted ways, we cried. To this day this remains one of the most emotional and dramatic moments in my life.

Well, there you tried to be honest about your attraction to C to your husband A. I'm not hearing anything firm though.

Like "I am getting mixed signals from you. I am telling you that I cannot keep this agreement to remain Closed. I want to be Open. I want to date C. I don't want to break agreements. I want to talk about renegotiating. If that is not possible, I want to talk about disbanding."

My partner A was broken by me being with C, breaking a promise and what he saw as, compromising our relationship to be with someone else.

He had a share in the situation making by giving mixed messages. Sometimes ok sometimes not. It wasn't all you making the situation. You both had a share in it.

I end up consumed by guilt, still feeling like I followed my heart in each case and still... consumed by guilt and as if I am hurting everyone.

People are adults here. The are responsible for their OWN well being. I think you could let them be. Rather than you trying to be responsible for the well being of everyone around you. That's too much load to carry. Each person taking care of themselves is fair. Then everyone has a person to look out for.

After that "basic" if you have extra energy to gift? THEN you can contribute "bonus" to other people's well being when they make rational and reasonable requests of you.

I talk to C with whom we are very close, realizing we want different things from life and a relationship is not possible. I feel like I need to let him go.

Then let him go.

I talk to my partner A that I am waiting to come after 5 months apart.

Then wait to see each other in person before you decide anything else.

Because I want to be clear about mine and his feelings, I am going to see B and talk about what happened, what he wants, how he feels about it etc.

Fair enough. But you haven't promised B exclusivity.

A is feeling bad about it.

Fair enough. It is reasonable to feel a bit yucky when something happens.

Mistakes happen in life. Not the end of the world. People can learn from mistakes, heal, and then feel better.

And me, I feel worthless. I feel like I should have died, that whatever I touch, I destroy.

These are pretty strong words. Have you gotten professional care for the previous suicide attempt and this depression sounding stuff?

Some people having conflict is not the end of the world. Not FUN, but neither is it total doom and destruction where you need to die.

All you can do at this time is apologize to A. Say you don't want to be a person that breaks agreements. And want to renegotiate agreements so they are actually keepable when he comes home.

Then while waiting the 5 mos to see each other? Seek a counselor to help you get your thoughts in order and provide you with some support.

When he returns? Talk it out.

If he wants Closed? And you want Open? Then you may have become incompatible. You may have to part ways.

I think being up front and honest with each other would be better than bending selves into NEW pretzels, so be prepared when you talk to be super duper honest about what it is you want from life.

I encourage you to line up a counselor though to aid you in this difficult time. And perhaps talk about what healthy relationships are and are not. You sound like you carry too much and are over-responsible It's not ALL on you when things happen in a relationship.

Sometimes things just happen.

GL!
Galagirl

 

[WhatHappened]

I'm more in agreement with Vicki. You have a poor track record, in my opinion, in choosing men and who you fall for. You cheated on your husband when you had agreed to take a break.

I strongly suggest you exercise self discipline and spend a minimum of six months, preferably a year, getting some counseling and getting at some of the roots of why you choose as you do, why you cheat and tell yourself you somehow couldn't help it, and more.

 

[MayDecember]

Hi Sabrina.

I would take the Adverse Childhood Experiences test (ACE). You can google it and it is a score out of ten things.

Your choices demonstrate your score is going to be even higher than mine. The decisions you've made will be rooted in imprinting on bad relationship behavior when you were a child. Repeating bad patterns.

Your score will be strong evidence you should get professional help. I did it through a lot of reading, correspondence, and the least productive was actually the counseling from people with very little experience in childhood abuse and manipulative behavior.

Warm regards...

 

[sabrina8]

Thank you so much for all the advice and especially for the kind words. I really needed it all and it helped me order things in my head a bit.
To the people who are advising me to see a therapist or turn to professional help - I abstain from this in this case because in my country things, including therapy are very conservative. I cannot imagine finding understanding and non-judgement by a therapist here. There are not so many poly people or resources on the subject and this is generally unheard of.
I can see many results in myself of child emotional neglect, abuse etc. Thank you so much to the person, who suggested the test, my score is 7. Would you mind sharing more resources and experience? Sometimes I am really not certain if my sexual behavior is "normal" or a result of trauma, meaning this need for touch, love and companionship I really do have. Still, I do stand behind my feelings for people, I have had just sex with no attachment and I know the difference. It just happened that I met two new human beings I was really fascinated by. So I don't understand myself, I don't know what I am or how to continue my life. I cry a lot, I am anxious and afraid of the future...

 

[GalaGirl]

So I don't understand myself, I don't know what I am or how to continue my life. I cry a lot, I am anxious and afraid of the future...

I'm sorry to hear that.

I don't know if it helps you any... but maybe rather than "one stop shopping" you think about it more like "reducing my sads, one little step at a time?"

Maybe you could be willing to see a local counselor about just the childhood stuff or just the anxiety or just the suicide stuff so you have a suicide management plan. There are templates online you could print and take the counselor to help you fill out.

When ready? Maybe Skype or call a poly friendly for the poly stuff so it's not limited to local people?

Like one thing at a time. Rather than all at once? In case it helps...

LINKS

http://polyfriendly.org/index.php

https://www.counseling.org/docs/def...eling-the-polyamorous-client-implications.pdf

Galagirl

 

[sabrina8]

What happened

Thanks to everyone who commented on my story, especially to Galagirl for this priceless list of therapists!

I thought I would like to update you on my story, since the people who commented took time to read it and give advice on it, some of which was super good and really helpful through my difficult times.

So, I went to see B. A, although previously agreeing on that and claiming to be ok with that, withdrew that support and was feeling stingy about it. I was already on my way of this trip (B lives in another country, I saw him on the way of seeing my mum, who also lives abroad, talking about Europe). To make A comfortable I said I would be available to talk, chat etc. The problem was that his unease and this never ending drama and long-distance communication just drained me, I crashed on the way to see B, constantly crying, not wanting to talk to anyone, asking A for space. It is not like I didn't send any texts to A or was completely unavailable, in my opinion, I was just not able to walk him through all the difficult feelings he had because I was struggling.
B met me, we were happy to see each other, shared a lot of relationship talk and experience and he was like, a really nice friend. He was not pushy with me, he saw I was having a difficult time and did not take advantage of that. I confirmed to myself with this trip that I can be with my partner A, I can kind of compromise, make our relationship work. Sure, it would have been nice to be able to be with both A and B, I have a big crush on him but if that caused too much discomfort, pain and negative thoughts, fears, insecurities, I would not do that because I love my partner A and through all that time apart I was trying to make him feel loved and see that he is so important to me.
I had to take a break though from intense long-distance communication and during my time with B and after, I did not engage so much in talking to A, I had asked for some space. I was like... now he will finally come home and we will see how we feel with each other, I had my big doubts but I had not given up on the relationship.
He was texting me things like "Nothing is the same" and "You have crossed lines, I am feeling abandoned", I would panic and try to talk to him at times, insisting to talk in person, feeling guilty, apologizing...
The moment I saw him at the airport, I was so happy, my heart was pounding, I was smiling and laughing with him and so grateful to be in his arms again. I felt so comfortable being happy around him, I was pushing down my uneasy feelings for a couple of days. Once we were jumping on the bed together and smiling at each other I said "Hey, A, I am sorry about everything" but we still did not talk about it, did not have a serious conversation. I could feel him more distant though. The moment I broke was after we saw the movie about Mr Rogers, there was something super touching in it. So I broke down in tears, I could not speak, I was just crying... A was consoling and we still did not talk about it. Really, I am losing track of events and what happened after what, I remember us having a conversation and him telling me "What did you expect, I am no longer close to you in that way anymore", which was his way of telling me it's over. Later when we spoke, he told me that for him it was over and it was over when I asked for space when I was feeling drained. Then he was telling friends and people around we are no longer together. At the same time, I was endlessly crying, having sense of guilt, us not really communicating but still having sex, which was making me feel even more horrible. He said he needs another type of relationship, so that meant that he would fuck me until he gets a girlfriend he can be monogamous with. I was not ok, I was unstable, dealing with accepting the end and not being ready to with us living together. I was crying 6+ hours a day and he was distant. One day I said, I need to move out, I need to go somewhere... I went to sleep at a friend's house and that really helped. The moment I was at my friend's, A was not stopping to text me with horny messages, nudes etc, saying how I should go back to the house and fuck him and I found it so terribly inappropriate, but oh, well. Maybe he feels entitled to have sex with me no matter what, I was thinking, all these guys did while he was away. On the next day I asked him about it, he said he just finds me super attractive and we can no longer be in a relationship with me but hey, he can be one of the guys. I was not entirely comfortable with that, yet I wanted to be close to him again, I wanted to connect with him again. That day he confessed he met another girl and he likes her. He is talking to her every day. Tears were flowing down my cheeks and I said "Ok. I drove you away from me at some point, I understand" We kept living together, I kept crying, he kept kind of distant, throwing mean or consoling things here and there and a hug here and there. One day when I was crying, he started asking me questions like "Did you tell B that we were in an open relationship?", I said yes, feeling very guilty, then he said "So this was an invitation for him to fuck you", I said "I guess", feeling guilty af. I reached a point of a terrible crisis again. I shaved my head. That was the line, after that I moved out. A started seeking more attention, my first night at my empty friend's apartment, he called me. I talked to him about this why-do-you-tell-people-we-are-in-an-open-relationship thing he told me before and I was like "Then what's the point of being in an open relationship, if nobody knows and we keep it to ourselves? I told B about our relationship in general, about how great you are and how much in love with you I was also". I don't even remember what his answer was because it was just, sorry for the pathos but... lame. We had a long talk and he confessed most of the times he went to work in America, he was with someone but he was so in love with me when he was back that it did not matter. I didn't feel anything when he told me that, we were in an open relationship, I agreed to this. The next day, talking to a friend though and telling her, she told me "But hey, he said to me he was not sleeping with anyone and he had eyes only for you and this whole time." Then I was furious, I felt like he was looking for pity from my friends, making me sound like a villain this whole time. He did this to me also but I noticed it when my friend told me. I was so mad, when I confronted him about it, he was like "I told your friend THIS time when I was in America I was not with anyone". He was all bitter and hateful to my friend, who was allegedly turning me up against him. I was so mad, told him to leave my place and my life asap. He was constanly texting me, apologized for not being empathetic enough to me while we were in my place together (for the first time), telling me how much he loved me the whole time. I was very firm. Still, when I agreed to meet and talk, I embraced him endlessly, had sex again, I had missed him so much, I felt him so close. He talked about how he wants us to be close friends, fuck and maintain this great relationship like that. I told him I feel like I failed and he has a good perspective on this thing because he is looking forward to a new relationship with this girl, which will probably be monogamous or what we tried to have. I will have to watch him with someone else, who will have replaced me and our relationship being his partner on the long run, that I feel disposable this way, that our interaction has an expiration date. He did not deny the possibility for a new relationship. So here I am, super broken-hearted but also disappointed that he could not overcome his insecurity, he could not try for us to be together. That he came and had decided that it's over without discussing it with me really. That I should be the one to overcome my pain to be his friend that he can spend time with and fuck. I am fucking devastated but I know - life did me a favor, I am grateful to no longer be with this person and I will give myself a biiig break...

 

[GalaGirl]

It is hard to read a wall of text. If you are still in the edit window, could you please be willing to do hit "return" a few times and break up the paragraphs more? That could help you get more responses.

SHORT VERSION

That he came and had decided that it's over without discussing it with me really. That I should be the one to overcome my pain to be his friend that he can spend time with and fuck. I am fucking devastated but I know - life did me a favor, I am grateful to no longer be with this person and I will give myself a biiig break...

All kinds of fresh.

STAY BROKEN UP and remove him from all devices/contact lists. Stop answering the phone. File for divorce. Let it be done.

LONG VERSION

From your post #1:

He helped me recognize the abuse, claimed that he would be honored to be in my life in whatever way I decide.

We agreed in the beginning of our relationship that we want an open one.

We got married because of legal purposes - this was the only way he could be in my country for more than 3 months legally and not having to go back to his country all the time

It's ok if A didn't want to do open relationship. He could have been more honest from the start on that.

How he behaved and treated you? That behavior is NOT ok.

It's not fun to think about. And I could be totally wrong. But to me it sounds like like A swooped in when you were vulnerable from the previous abusive relationship and took advantage. Told you whatever lovey dovey you wanted to hear to gain access to you and get married ASAP for the VISA convenience stuff. And for sex.

Then when you wanted to move on to actually practice Open relationships? He changed the story and started heaping his own verbal abuse on the pile and playing a lot of head games leaving you feeling super DRAINED. Because anyone else getting too close to you might tell you he's being weird and if you believe them? So ends his gravy train.

Now that it is over? Keep away!

I encourage you to see a therapist for extra support in this difficult time and help for learning what healthy relationships are and are not. Also with help developing better personal boundaries. Don't date again until you have a good handle on that and how to vet a new dating partner to see if they are ok or not. And are REALLY healed from all the past abuses. Don't get too serious too fast. You don't need a string of these unhealthy relationship things. I cannot imagine that you would want that.

From your post #9:

I remember us having a conversation and him telling me "What did you expect, I am no longer close to you in that way anymore", which was his way of telling me it's over. Later when we spoke, he told me that for him it was over and it was over when I asked for space when I was feeling drained. Then he was telling friends and people around we are no longer together.

It sounds like A expected you to be his beck and call at all times, always available. Always serving him in whatever it is he wanted/needed. And even if you feel tired or drained, you have to keep propping him up or attending to him. Not a realistic, kind, or healthy expectation of a partner.

At the same time, I was endlessly crying, having sense of guilt, us not really communicating but still having sex, which was making me feel even more horrible. He said he needs another type of relationship, so that meant that he would fuck me until he gets a girlfriend he can be monogamous with. I was not ok, I was unstable, dealing with accepting the end and not being ready to with us living together.

So... he said he's dumping you but until he finds a new GF he is ok using you for live-in sex? This is NOT ok.

Def STOP sharing sex with him ever again. Even if he comes back sniffing around and tries to lure you back in with sweet words... remember how horrible it felt. This is not a safe person.

One day I said, I need to move out, I need to go somewhere... I went to sleep at a friend's house and that really helped. The moment I was at my friend's, A was not stopping to text me with horny messages, nudes etc, saying how I should go back to the house and fuck him and I found it so terribly inappropriate, but oh, well. Maybe he feels entitled to have sex with me no matter what, I was thinking, all these guys did while he was away.

Remember how being AWAY from him felt BETTER. No haranguing you.

That texting is VERY inappropriate. NOT "oh well." You don't seem to have a good sense of self. Even if everyone wants to have sex with you? It is YOUR body. YOU decide how you will share it, with who, and when. Anyone trespassing on that is trespassing and moving into being fresh/taking advantage/rape-y sounding places.

One day when I was crying, he started asking me questions like "Did you tell B that we were in an open relationship?", I said yes, feeling very guilty, then he said "So this was an invitation for him to fuck you", I said "I guess", feeling guilty af

I hope now that you are calmer you can see that as crap.

He agreed to practice Open Relationship with you from the start. You have nothing to feel guilty about. As far as you knew you WERE in an Open relationship.

And being in an Open Relationship? That doesn't mean you lose your body autonomy and are "up for grabs" for whoever comes along that covets sex from you. It is NOT an invitation for people to fuck you any more than "I am single" is an invitation for people to fuck you like you are "up for grabs." Sheesh! YOU are the one in charge of your body.

I think it is better for you to stay away from him. A. sounds like he's doing A LOT head games on you.

Not a healthy sounding relationship to me. I get that you are upset through all this and I'm very sorry. It is ok to let this go once and for all. I don't think you doing 200% of the work would have made this relationship fly. It wasn't healthy from the start. You cannot fix him.

File for divorce would be my advice. Detach yourself from this person. Invest in working on yourself instead so YOU can be healthier. It's the better investment.

Galagirl

 

[Eudoxia]

So let me get this straight. You agreed with A that you have an open relationship. A travels frequently to America for work reasons and while he's there, he's "with someone" - at least most of the times.

However, when YOU travel to be "with someone", A decides he cannot take it and everything is over. AND on top of that, he badmouths your friend and accuses her of trying to make him look bad meaning he takes zero responsibility for his own actions rather than blaming somebody else.

And of course there's all that Galagirl said.

Honestly, you're not causing "everyone" pain. The only person you're really causing pain is yourself. You could just stop. A is clearly bad for you so better stay away from him.

Take a break from relationships, focus on taking care of yourself and make sure the next person you select to be your partner treats you well.

 

[Magdlyn]

Thanks to everyone who commented on my story, especially to Galagirl for this priceless list of therapists!

I thought I would like to update you on my story, since the people who commented took time to read it and give advice on it, some of which was super good and really helpful through my difficult times.

So, I went to see B. A, although previously agreeing on that and claiming to be ok with that, withdrew that support and was feeling stingy about it.

I was already on my way of this trip. (B lives in another country, I saw him on the way of seeing my mum, who also lives abroad, talking about Europe.)

To make A comfortable I said I would be available to talk, chat etc. The problem was that his unease, this never ending drama, and long-distance communication just drained me.

I crashed on the way to see B, constantly crying, not wanting to talk to anyone, asking A for space. It is not like I didn't send any texts to A or was completely unavailable. I was just not able to walk him through all the difficult feelings he had, because I was struggling, myself.

B met me. We were happy to see each other, shared a lot of relationship talk and experience, and he was like, a really nice friend. He was not pushy with me, he saw I was having a difficult time and did not take advantage of that.

I confirmed to myself with this trip that I can be with my partner A. I can kind of compromise, make our relationship work. Sure, it would have been nice to be able to be with both A and B. I have a big crush on , but if that caused too much discomfort, pain and negative thoughts, fears, insecurities, I would not do that, because I love my partner A.

Through all that time apart I was trying to make him feel loved and see that he is so important to me. I had to take a break though, from intense long-distance communication. [So] during my time with B and after, I did not engage so much in talking to A. I had asked for some space.

I was like... now he will finally come home, and we will see how we feel with each other. I had my big doubts, but I had not given up on the relationship.

He was texting me things like, "Nothing is the same," and, "You have crossed lines, I am feeling abandoned." I would panic and try to talk to him at times, insisting to talk in person, feeling guilty, apologizing...

The moment I saw him at the airport, I was so happy, my heart was pounding, I was smiling and laughing with him and so grateful to be in his arms again. I felt so comfortable being happy around him, I was pushing down my uneasy feelings for a couple of days.

Once we were jumping on the bed together and smiling at each other, I said, "Hey, A, I am sorry about everything," but we still did not talk about it, did not have a serious conversation. I could feel him more distant though.

The moment I broke was after we saw the movie about Mr Rogers, there was something super touching in it. So I broke down in tears, I could not speak, I was just crying... A was consoling and we still did not talk about it.

(Really, I am losing track of events and what happened after that.)

I remember us having a conversation and him telling me, "What did you expect? I am no longer close to you in that way anymore", which was his way of telling me it's over. Later when we spoke, he told me that for him it was over. It was over when I asked for space when I was feeling drained.

Then he was telling friends we are no longer together. At the same time, I was endlessly crying, having sense of guilt, us not really communicating but still having sex, which was making me feel even more horrible. He said he needs another type of relationship, so that meant that he would fuck me until he gets a girlfriend he can be monogamous with.

I was not ok! I was unstable, dealing with accepting the end, and not being ready to, with us living together. I was crying 6+ hours a day, and he was distant. One day I said, I need to move out, I need to go somewhere... I went to sleep at a friend's house and that really helped.

The moment I was at my friend's, A was not stopping to text me with horny messages, nudes, etc., saying how I should go back to the house and fuck him. I found it so terribly inappropriate, but oh, well. Maybe he feels entitled to have sex with me no matter what, I was thinking.

[All these guys did while he was away.]

On the next day I asked him about it. He said he just finds me super attractive, and can no longer be in a "relationship" with me, but hey, he can be "one of the guys." I was not entirely comfortable with that, yet I wanted to be close to him again, I wanted to connect with him again.

That day he confessed he met another girl and he likes her. He is talking to her every day. Tears were flowing down my cheeks, and I said "Ok. I drove you away from me at some point, I understand."

We kept living together. I kept crying, he kept kind of distant, throwing mean or consoling things here and there and a hug here and there. One day when I was crying, he started asking me questions like, "Did you tell B that we were in an open relationship?" I said yes, feeling very guilty, then he said "So this was an invitation for him to fuck you?" I said, "I guess", feeling guilty af.

I reached a point of a terrible crisis again. I shaved my head. That was the line. After that I moved out. A started seeking more attention. My first night at my friend's empty apartment, he called me. I talked to him about this why-do-you-tell-people-we-are-in-an-open-relationship thing he told me before, and I was like, "Then what's the point of being in an open relationship, if nobody knows and we keep it to ourselves?"

I told B about our relationship in general, about, "How great you are and how much in love with you I was also". I don't even remember what his answer was, because it was just (sorry for the pathos, but...) lame.

We had a long talk, and he confessed most of the times he went to work in America, he was with someone, but he was so in love with me when he was back that it did not matter. I didn't feel anything when he told me that, [because] we were in an open relationship, and I'd agreed to this.

The next day, talking to a friend though, and telling her, she told me, "But hey, he said to me he was not sleeping with anyone, and he had eyes only for you this whole time." Then I was furious! I felt like he was looking for pity from my friends, making me sound like a villain this whole time. He did this to me also, but I noticed it when my friend told me.

I was so mad, when I confronted him about it, he was like, "I told your friend THIS time when I was in America I was not with anyone." He was all bitter and hateful to my friend, who was allegedly turning me up against him. I was so mad, told him to leave my place and my life asap.

He was constantly texting me, apologized for not being empathetic enough to me while we were in my place together (for the first time), telling me how much he loved me the whole time. I was very firm.

Still, when I agreed to meet and talk, I embraced him endlessly, had sex again. I had missed him so much. I felt him so close.

He talked about how he wants us to be close friends, fuck and maintain this great relationship like that.

I told him I feel like I failed and he has a good perspective on this thing because he is looking forward to a new relationship with this girl, which will probably be monogamous, or what we tried to have.

I will have to watch him with someone else, who will have replaced me and our relationship, being his partner on the long run. I feel disposable this way, that our interaction has an expiration date. He did not deny the possibility for a new relationship.

So here I am, super broken-hearted, but also disappointed that he could not overcome his insecurity, he could not try for us to be together. That he had decided that it's over without discussing it with me, really. That I should be the one to overcome my pain, to be his friend that he can spend time with and fuck.

I am fucking devastated, but I know - life did me a favor, I am grateful to no longer be with this person and I will give myself a biiig break...

There's your post with paragraph breaks.

 

[Magdlyn]

I agree with GG. As good as he seemed at first, and as good as the sex is, A is taking advantage of you. He is breaking agreements. He sees you are loving, and kind, and sexy... and have shaky boundaries. So he uses you for a green card by love bombing you and getting you to agree to marry him. He sees you feel guilt for just following your original agreement and forming a relationship with B.

Bleh!

He sounds narcissistic. He's got a double standard. HE can go off and fuck someone else, but if you do it? He's gonna abuse you emotionally. That's bullshit.

I was with a narcissist once. It devastated me, but gave me tools to spot them in the future. I took a 6 month break from dating after that guy. I ran into another narcissist soon after I started dating, and broke up the minute I knew for sure he was another narc. This was back in 2014. I had one decent relationship after that.

Then in 2017, I ran into another user type flake. Again, he seemed great at first, but things fell apart after his NRE faded.

"Men are idiots." I've had men tell me this. I know there are some great guys out there.... but I've never been lucky enough to have had a relationship with one! My long term partner now is a woman. She's amazing. Sweet, kind, generous, attentive. I thank goddess every day I am bisexual lol I never knew love could be so good until we fell in love.

I really do think testosterone is a poison. It makes men do terrible things to get laid. Sadly, it also makes them attractive sexually! The beards, the muscles, the hairy chests, the height, the deep seductive voices, the strong libidos, the hard cocks. So hard to resist them. So hard to have a decent relationship with one.

We women have to be careful. I've found it almost impossible to have a really safe fulfilling long lasting relationship with any man. (And I was married and mono for over 30 years. I've only been practicing poly for 10 years.)

So. Be careful. Be good to yourself. Take care of YOURSELF. Draw those boundaries tight. Hold the line. Divorce this son of a bachelor and move on.

(I just came across the epithet "son of a bachelor," and I like it more than son of a bitch lol)

I bet you look cute but tough with the shaved head!

 

[sabrina8]

Dear forumers,

Once again you are super sweet and kind, so really thank you! <3 It is a really difficult time for me.

GalaGirl is once again on point. I don't think though that he married me only for the visa. I mean, it's nice to have it and we did it to be able to be together longer, without travels and interruptions. He finally got it and we were going to apply for a residence card and... we broke up, after so much effort to be together.

Yes, Arawn, you understand well. We were in an open relationship, because we thought there would be periods with some time apart. We felt we were not ready to do it while we were living together and in the same country. The point was I told him I don't want to know about his lovers, if there are such but I have no memory of him telling me that he would not like to know, he claims that he told me but I really don't remember him saying that. Could be my bad and I am so sorry if that is so, it is just that when it happened that I was with someone else I felt guilt, did not know what to do and how to tell A. He suspected, I admitted.

FYI, ever since I shaved my head I moved out at a friend's place and he is in my apartment, claiming he cannot find a place to stay. I really want divorce so I don't think about him anymore, so I am tolerant and let him stay, although it feels fucked up to go from my home as if I am punished for something bad. What is contradictory is also how he says that divorce means nothing. Another time when I asked him "Why did you propose to me?" (which happened, I am not exact, but maybe 2nd month of the relationship, he said he was trying to find a new way of expressing how much he likes me. So if divorce means nothing, then marriage means nothing, then how he likes me is really... he doesn't. What I think this person wants is to be loved but not to love, to make you fall in love with him and love him the way he needs and wants to be loved, regardless of his double standards. Also, I feel like he is kind of trying to blame the end on me, still with me not feeling too bad about it so his conscience can be calm.

He actually really likes another girl now. He claims that happened the last week before he came back. It hurts me so much. She is American, like him, they share the same culture, she is closer to his age (I am 23, he is 44), she is an activist, was homeless, super impressive person. You know, he really looks down on my country and complains so much about it. I am Eastern European and I live in Eastern Europe and believe me, I know how shit it is. But just all the complaints about how everything here is wrong and is done wrong were too much for me because, I am a product of this culture, as much as I differ individually than most people. Here we have no social movements, or critical thought on homophobia, sexism and violence against women, racism... These things are just a norm. To be harassed as a woman in brutal ways is a norm, and there are not many people who stand up against that. We have a lot of cultural machismo also.

Anyways, I feel like I was not good enough for him, that I failed. If he wanted us to have the partnership we had with an additional person that I know about, I would have tried and not have felt like less of a person, less of a girl, the way I feel now. Now, he would like the kind of partnership and closeness we had with her and it is just too much for me. Anyways, life has blessed me to be free now, for the better.

My shitty context is also a part of why I fell so much for A. He is this 2 m tall guy who also is not typically male, pretty queer, calls men on their bullshit a lot. To find such a guy here is nearly impossible, he was beyond my expectations. He is a guy, who was abused by alcoholic women.
Here I will address Magdlyn's post - wow, sister, thank you for the supportive post, I seriously needed to read exactly the things you said for encouragement! I will use "son of a bachelor" from now on too! Thank you so much for the kind words, and yes, I like myself shaved. And another yes, he did love bomb me, I had just found out about that expression when we started dating but ignored that it was actually happening to me... I thought, the person is just expressive and different. On our first date we were throwing water balloons in the park in the summer, trying to induce a water balloon chaos, he took me to a nude beach and we were exploring an abandoned building, going on top of it, looking at a blood moon over the sea... He constantly thanked me for sharing my time with him, encouraged me, explained to me how I am an autonomous vehicle for creation, love, fun, growth... that I am great the way I am and abusive people do not want me to believe in love and I am so great for opening up to love and not being jaded. It seemed like the best relationship I have ever had, he was not afraid to be emotional, loving... He said "I love you" the first time we had sex. He proposed to me around 2 months after.

Another contradiction that stroke me after I have moved out and thought about it is him freaking out when I said I had some kind of feelings for the people I sleep with, yet when he was fucking me after he came back and I asked him "Are you horny because you are in love with someone else and I'm just here, available..." He said no and "I don't have sex with people I have no feelings for". So what is the problem with me having feelings for others? If he had feelings for everyone he was sleeping with during our relationship. He cannot explain exactly why is he so offended, usually he says it is my broken promises - I promised not to sleep with anyone after B and then promised to talk to him when I am over at Bs, when I had my breakdown. I understand these things, I am sorry I did not keep the first promise especially but honestly... the way A was acting threatened, I felt that once we get together for longer, that would be it for me being with other men. I was afraid of that.

Sorry, I am a bit pouring my soul out here.

The last thing I would like to say and ask for advice about is this... I really like B. Now that I have no longer a relationship with A, I felt... I was going to compromise because of A, because I saw him as my family, as my life partner. I don't want a relationship with B, we are 2000 km apart anyways. I mean, not the kind of relationship where your lives are so interwined, you live together, have plans together, spend most of the time together. I would like to see one another from time to time, have some nice time together. Of course, let him the freedom to be with others and claim the same. He has experiences with being open, being supportive to partners in difficult situations, where other lovers were involved. Do you think that would be healthy? I also have my fears when it comes to that, I don't want to unload shit from my just ended relationship, still, I think he is a super honest and direct person, I see him as psychologically stable, focused. We share values completely. I would not like to miss a chance with him. Yet, I don't want to fuck up, myself especially.

Thank you so much for your answers, people!

 

[MayDecember]

Hi Hon,

I suggested the ACE test. Adverse Childhood Experiences. I'm a 5, not a big showing but respectable in psychiatric circles. A 7, well that's very strong indeed. Charlie Manson was a ten, so you really are nowhere near a serial killer standard yet but we don't choose our childhoods. We get no coaching in the womb.

Those of us with these experiences are inculcated with disordered thinking and we develop "skills" that nobody should be good at, lol.

What I did on my journey of self-knowledge was look up some priority items, I will throw alcohol out there as just one example - I haven't had a drop for three decades so that little check-box is no longer applying to me.

But pick any question on the list and it suggests books to read, like children who saw violence, emotional abuse, abandonment, sexual abuse, whatever.

Once I had this insight, that it was me who had problems, I put a screeching halt on relationships until I had things figured out. I went a couple years without seeing anyone.

Life couldn't be better now and there were days of agony before I understood myself better.

 

[sabrina8]

Wow, people...

I know I did something really wrong. I had to go to get stuff from my house where A is staying while we are separating... We made it so he would not be there when I'm there.

His skype was open and... I looked. Nudes, shots from virtual sex with this new girl (that he treats the way he treated me in the beginning, counting the days until he is there, calling her baby, making complimets) and also... interestingly enough... videos of his ex masturbating with the same dildo I have (wondering where she got it from) dating from the first months while we were together. Like, the way we talked about our relationship was that it would be ok to be with people while apart. I'm sure he was contacting exes and fucking other people, since he confessed he fucked other people every time when he was in the US.

I asked him questions and gave him a chance to confess. He didn't.

It's really hard for me to let it go, I am wrong for having done this but otherwise maybe I would have taken steps back towards him... And still, in my mind, I excuse him... I am so brokenhearted. If only he would be honest with me in the beginning, if only he would tell me he has people, regulars or likes to keep exes close that way... I don't know... My heart is so broken, my soul is really in pain...

 

[GalaGirl]

FYI, ever since I shaved my head I moved out at a friend's place and he is in my apartment, claiming he cannot find a place to stay. I really want divorce so I don't think about him anymore, so I am tolerant and let him stay, although it feels fucked up to go from my home as if I am punished for something bad.

No. It is you doing what YOU need to feel better. You are keeping away from a toxic user-y sounding person.

If he's planning to move on to the new girl? And all you have to do is stay at your friend's house for a bit til he leaves?

Use the time to file for divorce yourself. Go to the courthouse and get the paperwork moving. Then when he leaves? Hooray!

Move back home. And make plans, if necessary, when the lease is up to change to a "fresh" apartment without all this ugh energy in it. Have a home cleansing/blessing. Redecorate. Whatever you need to do to reclaim your space.

I agree with Mag. He does sound narcissistic. Only a doc can dx that, but you don't need an "official dx" to decide "Ugh. I don't like how he treats me and I don't want to be around him any more!"

YOU get to pick your company and who you hang around with. If he's betrayed you and he doesn't not meet your personal standards? Well... Shoo!

Be ok being angry at how you were treated.

I don't know if this helps you any.

https://outofthefog.website

What is contradictory is also how he says that divorce means nothing.

Great! Then he has no problem signing the papers when they come. Awesome for you! You are rid of him!

What I think this person wants is to be loved but not to love, to make you fall in love with him and love him the way he needs and wants to be loved, regardless of his double standards. Also, I feel like he is kind of trying to blame the end on me, still with me not feeling too bad about it so his conscience can be calm.

I think you are correct. But don't tell him that and risk him hanging around extra to "prove" how wrong you are.

Could decide to say and do whatever to be rid of him FASTER. Could LIE and say "You are right, it's my fault." Then stop talking to him.

Don't BELIEVE him that it is your fault. Because it is not. Just remember the goal is SHOO! You don't owe a betrayer honesty.

To be harassed as a woman in brutal ways is a norm, and there are not many people who stand up against that. We have a lot of cultural machismo also.

Later you might examine this with your future counselor and see how this influences you ability to choose healthier partners. But the main goal for now is to be free of A.

(Later on when you can think more about it calmly with your counseling... isn't it interesting A turned out to be a jerk? And he worked SO hard to cast himself as anti this and that to be seen as a "romantic nice guy" when he really was just a jerk in disguise? That could help you spot them sooner later on if more of that type comes along. )

Anyways, I feel like I was not good enough for him, that I failed.

There are enough problems on your plate without you ADDING to them being your own self bully. You did nothing wrong. You thought this was an Open relationship, and were being honest with all people about that. It is not a crime to be honest with people.

That A twisted it up? That's his doing, not yours.

If he wanted us to have the partnership we had with an additional person that I know about, I would have tried and not have felt like less of a person, less of a girl, the way I feel now.

I hope when you feel calmer you see that HE needs to dump on you and devalue you. Make it all be your fault.

So he can move on to his new prey while still thinking that he's a "nice romantic guy." It not REALLY about you when he says crap.

Anyways, life has blessed me to be free now, for the better.

Yes. Life HAS blessed you and you will be free soon. File for divorce and let him just SHOO!

And another yes, he did love bomb me, I had just found out about that expression when we started dating but ignored that it was actually happening to me... I thought, the person is just expressive and different.

Now you will be wiser and be on the look out for "too much too fast too soon" love bombing stuff. Next time when that little alarm bell goes off in your head? Do not ignore it.

On our first date we were throwing water balloons in the park in the summer, trying to induce a water balloon chaos, he took me to a nude beach and we were exploring an abandoned building, going on top of it, looking at a blood moon over the sea... He constantly thanked me for sharing my time with him, encouraged me, explained to me how I am an autonomous vehicle for creation, love, fun, growth... that I am great the way I am and abusive people do not want me to believe in love and I am so great for opening up to love and not being jaded.

Too much too fast. When it starts to sound like a movie? That's not reality. Maintain a healthy skepticism.

It seemed like the best relationship I have ever had, he was not afraid to be emotional, loving... He said "I love you" the first time we had sex. He proposed to me around 2 months after.

Too much too fast. It's ok that you didn't know about love bombing before. NOW you do. Again... maintain a healthy skepticism in future.

him freaking out when I said I had some kind of feelings for the people I sleep with, yet when he was fucking me after he came back and I asked him "Are you horny because you are in love with someone else and I'm just here, available..." He said no and "I don't have sex with people I have no feelings for". So what is the problem with me having feelings for others?

It's natural for you to review since this is a fresh break up. But keep in mind that anything he said to you? Was for HIS gain, HIS convenience in the moment. Not for "truthful."

If he said "Yes. I am horny for her and you are a handy body. Let me have sex" would you have AGREED to be used like that? Remember... people like this say whatever to get what they want in the moment. He wanted sex in that moment.

The problem with you having feelings for others is that you are not allowed to be a person of your own or giving attention and time to others. You exist to serve HIM. He has a black hole inside. So it is ok for him have as many "faucet people" to help fill it up. But you? You are a faucet person. Your job is to fill his bucket, on demand. What are you doing filling up other people buckets? Get back here!

(You do not actually exist only to serve him. But don't argue with him on that and get stuck with him hanging around here longer. Remember the goal is "shoo!" not "stay here longer!")

If he had feelings for everyone he was sleeping with during our relationship. He cannot explain exactly why is he so offended, usually he says it is my broken promises - I promised not to sleep with anyone after B and then promised to talk to him when I am over at Bs, when I had my breakdown.

Convenient that he forgets that A provoked some of the breakdown with the haranguing.

Sorry, I am a bit pouring my soul out here.

If it helps you, go ahead. But I strongly encourage you to eventually get to a counselor when things are calmer. Even online counseling so you get more options.

Right now though? Focus on filing for divorce and A leaving here. So you can be free of NEW crap coming in. Then you can rest. Then you can shovel the OLD crap out of here.

One thing at a time. Bit by bit.

I also have my fears when it comes to that, I don't want to unload shit from my just ended relationship, still, I think he is a super honest and direct person, I see him as psychologically stable, focused. We share values completely. I would not like to miss a chance with him. Yet, I don't want to fuck up, myself especially.

Be honest with B. And with yourself. And don't rush into anything serious because you are NOT divorced yet, and you sound like you have things even from before A to heal from. Then the big pile of A things.

But if B is up for a long distance things were you keep it casual and no commitments? You don't talk about your healing things or your past with B and only with your counselor while you are healing? He can deal with that? Just a relationship of the PRESENT? And you both keep on dating other people/having other lovers? Maybe he is up for that. You can ask. Respect his answer if he's not into that.

Maybe what you want for a time is no dating at all. Or limited dating or solo poly. NO new commitments to anyone else. Your commitment is to YOU and your healing. And if any partner gets in the way of that, they can expect you end it with them.

And you can expect YOURSELF to end it.

Over time as you heal, you can offer a dating partner a change in agreements, a new dating offer. It is ok to go SUPER slow. Do what YOU need to heal.

Galagirl

 

[GalaGirl]

I asked him questions and gave him a chance to confess. He didn't.

You found/saw MORE reasons why this guy is no good and why SHOO is good plan.

Could accept anything that comes out of him is lies/crap stories without trying to analyze it deeply right now. Leave that for counseling.

Don't bother to ask him to give him a chance confess. What for? Does it change it is over? No. The goal is "SHOO!" not "more new interactions with him. "

It's really hard for me to let it go, I am wrong for having done this but otherwise maybe I would have taken steps back towards him... And still, in my mind, I excuse him... I am so brokenhearted.

Of COURSE you are broken hearted. *hug*

You went into it with good intentions. And you were betrayed in a big way. It is normal to feel yucky, and deep grief, and all that stuff when this come to light.

You might feel like emotional roller coaster -- up and down and up and down. You might even think things like -- "Was I stupid? Too trusting? Should have seen it? Am I horrible person and deserve bad treatment? I don't deserve good treatment. I hate him. I love him. I hate him. I love him. It's my fault. It's his fault. It's mine. " or similar. All up and downy.

Because the mind is in SHOCK after a deep betrayal. It will think all sorts of things. If you threw a rock in a pond it would make a huge splash. Even after sinking down and the rock is gone? The water could still be rippling for a long while. Well... your mind got a HUGE splash of betrayal and it set all things nearby bobbling around. You WILL think odd things and be all up and downy. He's not even gone yet. So I think it's normal for you to be all up and downy right now. FWIW? I also don't think these things and thoughts make you ACTUALLY horrible or stupid or your fault or whatever. It makes you HUMAN and going through a VERY rough patch. You have been set a-bobbling!

Let the rough moments pass without fighting it too much. Notice them, and write them down if you want in a notebook, to show a counselor when you get to that part of the process.

For now? One thing at a time. Protect yourself and keep AWAY. File for divorce and SHOO.

Be ok staying at your friend's place. He is NOT safe to be around. If you have to go over there again to get stuff, don't go alone. Bring the friend with you.

Galagirl

 

[MayDecember]

I asked him questions and gave him a chance to confess. He didn't.

Looking back, you are going to remember red flags you let him explain away.

It isn't that your radar is broken. It is being over-ridden and you need to learn how to listen to your radar, to amplify it, instead.

One of the ways I did that was having written lists. Of things that were necessary in a partner and things that were dealbreakers.

Lying was on the top of the list and it was all three types of lies: the outright lie, the lie by omission, and the lie by misleading evasion.

I was fair in giving my expectations up front. And boy it got me what I wanted straight away.

This guy - the question now becomes what he is capable of. There will be more you don't know of course. And since he has been at it a while he has had lots of time to think about how he will respond when confronted with evidence.

So he is cool as a cucumber while you are soul-crushing pain. But this is the worst of it. Always darkest before the dawn.

Now you know. So you know what you have to do, and there really isn't a point in confronting him. Resolve yourself and move forward one step at a time knowing to disregard the manipulative B.S. coming out of his mouth.

 

[powerpuffgrl1969]

Don't engage him further. He will just keep attempting to gaslight you and you may be prone to getting confused by his garbage. Write him off COMPLETELY. You don't need to explain to him "why;" he knows why, he just wants a confused to twist you up inside again so you keep putting up with his bullshit.