I'm a "swinger," but I LOVE my multiple partners

[hedgehog]

I dunno. Swinging is on that same plane as hotwifing, and I can tell you that a lot of people in that community literally think of someone as a walking set of genitals. I know there are a lot of swingers like that too. I think the ones having more of a relationship may be the exception rather than the rule. Have you been to a swingers' club lately??? They can be pretty gross. And this is from someone who likes going.

I don't go to swingers' clubs, but I also don't judge swingers as more or less moral based solely on their choice of swinging as a lifestyle. However I might judge particular swingers as more or less moral depending on how they conduct their lives. For example if they were dishonest or hurtful or irresponsible. However I don't believe we can simply assume those morals apply to everyone in the group, or for that matter almost any group, as a whole. This is why I don't think it's fair-minded to hold any judgementalness toward swingers. To be called a swinger should NOT be considered an epithet. IMO it should simply be a morally neutral label that identifies a particular lifestyle preference.

In contrast, I would say that historically speaking, polyamory has placed an emphasis on moral behavior. This is laudable, but also creates problems, because morals are highly subjective and often based on socialization rather than any attempt at universal principles ( e.g. the objective truth ). In fact, here on this particular forum, there is an aversion to attempting to pin-down what is and isn't true. The infraction I received not long ago was called "True Poly-ing". For those who believe that the truth matters ( a lot ), this is a very difficult position to be put in. I'm not even sure right now that I can talk about it without receiving another infraction. But I am taking the risk with the hope that the mods can see that the content is being delivered objectively and respectfully.

 

[Amygdala]

We spent a some time investigating swinging on our opening up journey. My comments only reflect our perceptions and experiences...circa 2018/19

I was keen to try swinging, minxi was, and was not all at the same time. We read a few books and listened to a ton of podcasts made by a good many now famous in the scene. Through that we worked out that many start with a lot of rules and tend to relax them as they go. And that fact did help us a lot to relax rules while we worked on opening up and taking things in baby steps always doing our best to go at the slower persons speed. (not to say I did that successfully all the time, sometimes I pushed too hard for progress)

I found swinging almost a formula. 1. Going to a swinger party or meet and greet and just playing together in the atmosphere (this appealed to minxi the most) 2. Going to soft swap, that is only oral with the other spouse and 3. Going to full swap. The really secure couples would even play in different rooms and the ones willing to risk feelings might even play solo. The emphasis on swinging is as a couple, with the express aim of having adventures sexually and always protecting the couple. Almost chaperoning each other i guess.

Our very first encounter with swingers believe it or not, was a full week at desire resort in mexico. 200 naked swingers pretty much. I found my people. And I didn't do anything sexual with another person other than my wife (public sex was incredible) But the people were so damn nice and open and honest. Made some really good friends for the week, from 80 yrs old to 30. Minxi did get up to hijinks in the hot tube with guys and girls but no actual full swap as they would say. Which kind of surprised me because she is so adamant that casual doesn't do it for her. I can only put it down to alcohol and the vibe of the place...

We did find a very good swingers sex club local and made a couple of visits on non play meet and greet nights. (it was there that she met the guy she saw for 6 weeks actually) but we never did play there.

One downside for us was our age gap as she is 40 and I am 57. The couples I was interested in (younger demograhpic like minxi) had wives that naturally were not to keen on the old fart and minxi was not into older men (seeing as she already had one Haha) so it was never going to work.

my take is that yes they really do try to control for 'feelings' and each couple will have different rules to try and fix that.

Most do not seem to frequent sex clubs for random sex though. My experance was most use certain dating sites and even some swinger only dating sites to make 4 way dates. The first couple to contact us expected if we got on at drinks or dinner then sex was a given. Tried to tell me that was the norm. Nope, sorry, bye. We did have one couple we both were interested to meet but it just never eventuated. There is a lot veto power exercised, as in, she's hot and the wife looks at the old balding potbellied dude and says nope... Not to be mean or negative so don't anyone take this the wrong way... There is an awful lot of 'she's hot, he's not' in the swing scene. We did see a fair bit of that in mexico. It was a shame. the women really did their best to look good but the men just seemed to let themselves go.

I noted in our podcast learning that some of the more 'advanced' swingers did seem to allow for some level of feelings and solo time and some even had a swinger girlfriend. Though I don't recall the word polyamory being discussed.

Among the few we met and the podcasts, there was talk of those who ran off with the other spouse. But i also gathered that the % was no more than monogamous folk. If someone is going to cheat or run off with some lover they are going to do it monogamy, swinging or poly.

The podcasters (the latest way of spreading the word) did spend a lot of time talking consent and what was and was not ok. Single men in the scene seem to have a bad rap. I also found from reading a lot of forum posts on swinger' s boards that a lot were quite ignorant when it came to STI risks. They have what they call the elevator talk about safe sex that usually happens on the way to the room, ie; have you anything to disclose and condoms for intercourse. Very very few ever use them for oral. And don't forget the little blue pill...

What I found odd (and all the podcasters liked to tell their sex encounter stories) was that most tried to time the male orgasms to coincide as much as possible. In other words once one guy was done and putting on his pants the other didn't want to be far behind... kinda awkward i guess. And perhaps a product of the not having feelings rule, well whats the couple that finished first to do while they wait? spoon? Whisper sweet nothings?

My perception of swingers loving the other couple or wife/husband is more a love as in a very close friend or FWB couple. In all my podacst listening (and I seriously binged every episode od a good dozen) I never heard of any moving to polyamory as its intended meaning.

What I gathered from our little foray was that modern swinging is very different to old school. And a good thing too. A very very high percentage of women in the scene seem to be either Bi or at least open to FF play. I also found they have quite a fixation on finding unicorns...

mmm.... i must go find a unicorn....lol

 

[Magdlyn]

Thanks so much for this. It's just the kind of helpful information I wanted, to understand why ex-swingers show up on our board, and to figure out how we should advise or help them.

I edited your post to try and save space.

We spent some time investigating swinging on our opening up journey. My comments only reflect our perceptions and experiences, circa 2018-19.

I was keen to try swinging. Minxi was and wasn't, at the same time. We read a few books and listened to a ton of podcasts. We found that many swingers start with a lot of rules and tend to relax them as they go. That helped us relax rules while we worked on opening up...

I found swinging to be almost a formula.
1. Go to a swinger party or meet and greet, and play together in the atmosphere (this appealed to Minxi the most).
2. Do a soft swap, that is, only oral with the other spouse
3. Do a full swap.

The secure couples might play in different rooms, and the ones willing to risk feelings might even play solo. The emphasis on swinging is as a couple, with the express aim of having adventures sexually, and always protecting the couple... chaperoning each other.

Our very first encounter with swingers was a week at Desire Resort in Mexico. 200 naked swingers! I found my people. But I didn't do anything sexual with anyone besides my wife (the public sex was incredible for me).

The people were nice, open and honest. I made some really good friends, from 80 to 30 years old.

Minxi got up to hijinks in the hot tub with both guys and girls, but no actual full swap, as they would say. This surprised me, because she is so adamant that casual doesn't do it for her. I can only put it down to alcohol and the vibe of the place...

Swingers really like to drink to lubricate the atmosphere, it seems. At kink scenes, drinking (more than 2 drinks) is frowned upon.

We found a very good local swing club and made a couple of visits on non-play nights. We never did play there.

It was there that she met Noodle, whom she dated for 6 weeks.

Aha! So Minxi and Noodle both "caught the feels" at a swing club! No wonder the NRE was so overwhelming and upsetting. It wasn't "supposed" to happen. So Noodle was there with his wife? And ugliness ensued, because he broke the main rule of swinging.

One downside for us was our age gap, as she is 40, I am 57. The couples I was interested in (a younger demographic like Minxi's) had wives that were not keen on the old fart, and Minxi is not into older men.

My take is, they really do try to control for 'feelings' and each couple will have different rules to try and fix that.

Most do not seem to frequent clubs for random sex. My experience was that most use dating sites to make 4 way dates.

The first couple to contact us expected that if we got on during drinks/dinner, then sex was a given. They tried to tell me that was the norm. "Nope, sorry, bye."

There is a lot of veto power exercised, as in, Man A sees Woman B and thinks she's hot, but Woman A looks at old balding potbellied Man B and says no. There is an awful lot of 'She's hot, he's not' in the swing scene. We saw a fair bit of that in Mexico. The women did their best to look good, but the men just seemed to let themselves go.

I noted in our podcast learning that some of the more 'advanced' swingers did allow for some level of feelings and solo time, and some even had a swinger girlfriend, though I don't recall the word polyamory being discussed.

There was talk of those who ran off with the other spouse. But I also gathered that the percentage was no more than for monogamous folk.

The podcasters spent a lot of time talking about consent, and what was and was not OK. Single men have a bad rap. I also read on swinger's boards that a lot were quite ignorant when it came to STI risks. They have what they call the "elevator talk" about safe sex that usually happens on the way to the room: "Have you anything to disclose?" and, "Will you use condoms for intercourse?" Very few use them for oral. And don't forget the little blue pill.

I guess you mean Viagra or Cialis was much in use? Maybe especially for the older less desirable men? If they aren't cute, at least their dicks are hard?

What I found odd (and all the podcasters liked to tell their sex encounter stories) was that most tried to time the male orgasms to coincide as much as possible. In other words, in a quad swap, once one guy was done, the other didn't want to be far behind... kinda awkward, I guess, and perhaps a product of the "no feelings" rule. What's the couple that finished first to going do while they wait? Spoon? Whisper sweet nothings?

Go for round 2?

My perception of swingers loving the other spouse is more as a love of very close friends or FWBs. I never heard of anyone moving to "polyamory."

What I gathered from our little foray was that modern swinging is very different from old school swinging. And (in my opinion) this is a good thing.

Also, they have quite a fixation on finding unicorns.

 

[Al99]

In fact, here on this particular forum, there is an aversion to attempting to pin-down what is and isn't true. The infraction I received not long ago was called "True Poly-ing". For those who believe that the truth matters ( a lot ), this is a very difficult position to be put in. I'm not even sure right now that I can talk about it without receiving another infraction. But I am taking the risk with the hope that the mods can see that the content is being delivered objectively and respectfully.

I really could not disagree more in regard to the nature of this Forum. I have participated in a great number of forums over the last 30 years, ranging from the highly intellectual to the mundane- from esoteric metaphysics to cycling - dating back to the Compuserv SIG's and the Usenet. And my observation is that the level of discussion on this forum is among the most intelligent, forthright, and helpful that I have encountered anywhere - about any subject.

The nature of the subject is such that while virtually everyone may agree on broad basic parameters, there will be many individual opinions in regard to specific nuances - that are, by their nature, necessarily subjective. There is no International Board of Generally Accepted Polyamorus Standards to dictate under what conditions the members of poly V configuration should or should not be considered polyamorous. Arguments can be made for individual viewpoints on many points - just as they can on many subjects.

But it would take an incredible amount of hubris to believe that one is so much wiser and smarter than the rest of us - that they have come to all the right conclusions as to what is Truth in Poly while the rest of us here are just wandering around in confusion (notwithstanding that there are apparently a lot of really intelligent poly folks who post regularly on this forum).

Just a a few more cents....

Al

 

[kdt26417]

Well stated Al.

 

[FallenAngelina]

... the level of discussion on this forum is among the most intelligent, forthright, and helpful that I have encountered anywhere - about any subject.

I concur.

 

[Amygdala]

Thanks so much for this.

You are most welcome, it was an interesting journey, We may or may not return to mexico this year...

Swingers really like to drink to lubricate the atmosphere, it seems. At kink scenes, drinking (more than 2 drinks) is frowned upon.

Very true. Very true. very true. Lots of beer, wine and spirits at the clubs. In mexico we seldom ever did not have a drink in hand ALL DAY and NIGHT with a water in between. because of the heat we never got drunk but always maintained the buzz.

Aha! So Minxi and Noodle both "caught the feels" at a swing club! No wonder the NRE was so overwhelming and upsetting. It wasn't "supposed" to happen. So Noodle was there with his wife? And ugliness ensued, because he broke the main rule of swinging.

Not quite... We had agreed a bout 3 weeks before to attend but on the night Minxi wasn't feeling it. She agreed to go anyway. It was a night that did have single men attending. Noodle was single. She was very much the attention of a number of polite but not interesting to her men and we were very much just using it as a night out to get a second feel for the club and the scene and a ''well you never know'' sort of outing.

When we both met Noodle there was instant attractions going on and Minxi's night got instantly better. There was no intent to find a man or woman or couple, but not unexpected considering the place.

The real problem with Noodle was that he was single but still pining for an ex that was monogamous and in the end he went back to her. (but it is not working out well for him) The NRE was off the charts and the comedown was equally as low as the NRE was high.

I guess you mean Viagra or Cialis was much in use? Maybe especially for the older less desirable men? If they aren't cute, at least their dicks are hard?

They call it 'swingers insurance'

 

[Evie]

But it would take an incredible amount of hubris to believe that one is so much wiser and smarter than the rest of us - that they have come to all the right conclusions as to what is Truth in Poly while the rest of us here are just wandering around in confusion

sniggersnort

and that's why someone has a new account now LOL

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

"Aha! So Minxi and Noodle both "caught the feels" at a swing club! No wonder the NRE was so overwhelming and upsetting. It wasn't "supposed" to happen. So Noodle was there with his wife? And ugliness ensued, because he broke the main rule of swinging."

Where on earth did you get all this from?!

 

[Amygdala]

"Aha! So Minxi and Noodle both "caught the feels" at a swing club! No wonder the NRE was so overwhelming and upsetting. It wasn't "supposed" to happen. So Noodle was there with his wife? And ugliness ensued, because he broke the main rule of swinging."

Where on earth did you get all this from?!

Perhaps a logical extrapolation from my comment: ''We did find a very good swingers sex club local and made a couple of visits on non play meet and greet nights. (it was there that she met the guy she saw for 6 weeks actually) but we never did play there''.

However I have explained it better in my prev post.

 

[Magdlyn]

"Aha! So Minxi and Noodle both "caught the feels" at a swing club! No wonder the NRE was so overwhelming and upsetting. It wasn't "supposed" to happen. So Noodle was there with his wife? And ugliness ensued, because he broke the main rule of swinging."

Where on earth did you get all this from?!

From prior posts by Amygdala.

 

[Amygdala]

From prior posts by Amygdala.

Just so you know Magdlyn... Your extrapolation was not unreasonable

But I think you would have read my deeper explanation...

Not quite... We had agreed a bout 3 weeks before to attend but on the night Minxi wasn't feeling it. She agreed to go anyway. It was a night that did have single men attending. Noodle was single. She was very much the attention of a number of polite but not interesting to her men and we were very much just using it as a night out to get a second feel for the club and the scene and a ''well you never know'' sort of outing.

When we both met Noodle there was instant attractions going on and Minxi's night got instantly better. There was no intent to find a man or woman or couple, but not unexpected considering the place.

The real problem with Noodle was that he was single but still pining for an ex that was monogamous and in the end he went back to her. (but it is not working out well for him) The NRE was off the charts and the comedown was equally as low as the NRE was high.

 

[Magdlyn]

Just so you know Magdlyn... Your extrapolation was not unreasonable

But I think you would have read my deeper explanation...

Not quite... We had agreed a bout 3 weeks before to attend but on the night Minxi wasn't feeling it. She agreed to go anyway. It was a night that did have single men attending. Noodle was single. She was very much the attention of a number of polite but not interesting to her men and we were very much just using it as a night out to get a second feel for the club and the scene and a ''well you never know'' sort of outing.

When we both met Noodle there was instant attractions going on and Minxi's night got instantly better. There was no intent to find a man or woman or couple, but not unexpected considering the place.

The real problem with Noodle was that he was single but still pining for an ex that was monogamous and in the end he went back to her. (but it is not working out well for him) The NRE was off the charts and the comedown was equally as low as the NRE was high.

Noted. My point was, Noodle and Minxi developed forbidden "feelings."

But my understanding is that Noodle left Minxi, after 6 weeks, and went back to his ex. Then he broke up with his ex once again, and is possibly interested in Minxi again.

That's quite a rollercoaster for you, since all you want is a piece (or pieces) of anonymous ass on the side.

 

[Amygdala]

Noted. My point was, Noodle and Minxi developed forbidden "feelings."

well, not so much forbidden...Noodle was single (just not over his ex) Minxi was blown away by connection she didn't expect to find. It was the SPEED and INTENSITY that was the problem for us at the time. We were underprepared for it.

But my understanding is that Noodle left Minxi, after 6 weeks, and went back to his ex. Then he broke up with his ex once again, and is possibly interested in Minxi again.

Not so much a 'left' as they hadn't really worked out what they were. Noodle was a bit mixed up and confused in that period. he was dating a friend casually because he needs company but it was never going to go anywhere, not over his own ex and then Minxi came into the picture while he was trying to navigate singleness again in his life. In my observation Noodle is a serial monogamist who thinks he should be capable of maintaining his 'own' woman and felt shame at dating a married one, leading him to choose to go back to the devil he knew even though Minxi let him know if he was patient he could see more of her.

Right now Minxi and I are not sure if Noodle has broken up with his ex or not! (They just can't get on yet he seems hooked) Minxi would love to date him again but it would require him living up to a few changes that she would need to see in him. I very much appreciate that even though Minxi would go back with him she won't if she feels he is not going to be capable this time round... IF he gets his shit together...

That's quite a rollercoaster for you, since all you want is a piece (or pieces) of anonymous ass on the side.

Oh yes. You nailed that. (except i do want to know their names... LOL) I would be open to somebody and some level of friendship if it came along all the same. I just don't need the 'amorous' part or the deep relationship part. I have that with Minxi.